Snowstrider wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

New question. It seems

Snowstrider wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Snowstrider wrote: »

This is pretty but a bit inaccurate

That's why I posted it. To get opinions on how it should be grown and changed. How is it inaccurate @Snowstrider?

Should be more like this, http://i.imgur.com/EkWIc3w.jpg And dont get me wrong the picture is beautiful

Awesome! Thanks @Snowstrider. That looks like a later version of the one posted by @Throren.

I disagree that the Bosmer and Khakiit came from the et`Ada. I don't agree that the Wanderers were homogeneous enough to be consisted their own people but I do need to add the Nedes. And I'm not including dead lineages or those we have NO origin of.

I'm thinking I need to add the Falmer and Dwemer because Ryde Dwemer were the reason the Falmer became what they are today.

Well,Men arent descendend from aldmer,At least what i know of.
And i guess this is about peoples different opinions Do whatever you want

Yea. My first version had men from aldmer. The newest revision that's displayed has men from Ehlnofey.

I agree @Throren. That's pretty much in line with how I think. I used to believe that the Khajiit were purely a product of Azura, a daedric evolution of cats... but I find it hard to refute the lore about the changing of the aldmer line that became Bosmer... especially considering the Ohmes furstock.

That leaves the Argonians as the only intelligent race that didn't evolve from The Ehlnofey... well, that we know of. I suspect the Sload didn't evolve from The Ehlnofey...

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

OK. Revision 2 is up... I think all I have left is to add the tribunal...

Tribunal?

False, dead gods

Oh I agree but influential enough to be included I think. Many of Tamriel's people worship dead gods.

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

OK. Revision 2 is up... I think all I have left is to add the tribunal...

Tribunal?

False, dead gods

Yeah, they should break off of the Dunmer line.

@ Gidorick
Great work, bro! Could you PLEASE provide it in the same high resolution as your first one.

Gidorick wrote: »

mitpeSrebiT wrote: »

@ Gidorick
Great work, bro! Could you PLEASE provide it in the same high resolution as your first one.

The link is an even higher rez than the first version. In revision 3, I'll just have the one image. I thought having a smaller image would be better or something. I dunno. I was tired. Lol.

Which link?

Not meaning to contradict you, but your first one was a PNG (2880x2880, 19,2 MB) and this one is a JPG (800x1000, 206 KB). Maybe I'm overlooking something here

YEAH ! Awesome ! That's exactly what I wanted. Thanks a lot, bro!

Gidorick wrote: »

Rosveen wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

OK. Revision 2 is up... I think all I have left is to add the tribunal...

Tribunal?

False, dead gods

They are very much alive at the time of ESO.

But they're still false.

As a CHIMster, Vivec is true in a way.

Gidorick wrote: »

Rosveen wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Rosveen wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

OK. Revision 2 is up... I think all I have left is to add the tribunal...

Tribunal?

False, dead gods

They are very much alive at the time of ESO.

But they're still false.

As a CHIMster, Vivec is true in a way.

It's my view that Vivec did NOT achieve CHIM, he only thought he did. I kind of view it as how the Buddha achieved Enlightenment and thousands of Gurus have claimed to have achieved enlightenment... but probably haven't. Talos showed his mastery of the CHIM by changing Cyrodiil, not only in his present, but in the past as well, he rewrote the events of time. Vivec was simply a student of CHIM.

That's like, your opinion, man. He understood CHIM very well, at least. Still, CHIM isn't necessarily godhood.

I finished up Revision 3

REV 3 Changes

• Added Tribunal
• Added the Battle of Red Mountain influence line
• Added the rest of the Khajiit Pantheon
• Added the Binding of Ja'Kha'Jay influence line
• Added the rest of the Redguard Pantheon
• Added the Ancient Nord Pantheon
• Moved Baan Dar to Padomay (from Lorkhan)
• Added the Nedes
• Moved the Creation of the Hist to Sithis from Padomay
• Added Padomay's influence on Lorkhan
• Added a list of worshiped Ehlnofey
• Added The Aetherius
• Added The Planes of Oblivion
• Added the Dreamsleeve
• Added the Falmer
• Added the Dwemer
• Added the Dwemer Betrayal of the Falmer influence line
• Moved Tu'Wacca to be another name for Magnus
• Reset the Oblivion portals

Looking at the image now, I think I'm going to change "Prophets of the Tribunal Boethiah, Azura, and Mephala" to "Prophets of Boethiah, Azura, and Mephala".

I have a couple of other visual fixes, like Masser & Secunda's title is set a little high. I also think the Dreamsleeve banner is a bit too large. Are there any inaccuracies you see that should also be fixed?

Please, don't just let me know something is "wrong", let me know how you think it should be fixed. If you don't know, but you simply disagree, that's cool too. It'll lead me to do some more research.

Feel free to let me know of any visual problems you see too. Like "The Tribunal" being larger than the scroll.

Thanks @UTG_Zilla. I chose not to include the Left Handed Elves (along with the Ayleids & Kothringi) because they were the end of their respective lines. Of course, seeing that there are only THREE that would be added... it wouldn't make the chart that much more cluttered. lol.

Now, the Lilmothiit, Sload, Imga, Tsaesci, Kamal Snow Demons, Tang Mo, or the Ka'Po'Tun because we really don't know their origins. I have my own speculations, but there's no lore to use to create a lineage.

I thought a bit about having a show-elves race banner. It actually got me thinking about the Mer as a whole. All of the Mer races have the same suffix... so their name is NAME+mer. Aldmer, Altmer, Bosmer... etc.

It actually lead me to a couple questions/thoughts

• What were the Orsimer called prior to them being Orsimer since they only became Orsimer when Trinimac became Malakath?
  • I like the idea of them being called Ardamer (Faithful Elves)
• I would think the Falmer (literally translated Snow Elves) would have been called Falmer PRIOR to their poisoning and deformation and something else after.
  • I like the idea of the Falmer being snow elves who turned into Buramer (Slave Elves) or Rotemer (Rotten Elves)
• The left handed elves don't have a "Mer" name either. They were pretty much known to be the advisory of the Yokudan people perhaps the Dalkmer (knife elves), Brandmer (Sword Elves), Geilmer (Screaming Elves), Geissirmer (Berserker Elves), or something else a warrior race of Mer would be called.

Thanks for the notes, I'll take them into consideration.

Why Talos/Ebonarm? I know they've both been attributed as gods of war, but I don't think there's much connection there otherwise.

The Stendarr/Hoonding connection gives me pause as well, given that The Hoonding is a deity rather exclusive to Redguards. But maybe I'm missing something?

@UTG_Zilla

UTG_Zilla wrote: »

Falmer - fallen mer, 'fallen' from their once great race of snow elves to the blind/deaf feral creatures we saw in skyrim.

The word Falmer literally translates to Snow/Ice elf (just like Altmer and Bosmer = High elf and wood elf) The actual unmutated falmer (like those in the dragonborn DLC) are so few and more or less extinct that people tend to use Falmer in refrence to the twisted blind version. But Falmer is the correct elven name for the snow elves.

UTG_Zilla wrote: »

Can't remember name of it but the first 'quest' for mages guild in skyrim takes you to a snow elf settlement that the atmorans sacked, I wanna say 'night of tears' but could be confusing it with the ww2 'kristalnacht' (probably not spelled right, I'm a bad nerd lol).

No, the quest takes you to an ancient nord settlement that the atmorans built. The snow elves and the nords were actually getting along until the elves decided to try to wipe the humans out. This lead to the Night of tears. The Night of Tears is the night an Elven force attacked and burned the first human city of Skyrim, Saarthal, built by the first Nordic inhabitants. This was the driving event which led Ysgramor to retaliate and hunted down the snow elves with the 500 companions in revenge.

UTG_Zilla wrote: »

But I can see why you didn't add them, they're not in game and not much is known About them. But I think you shouldn't do all that background work for all the other races and just have falmer as 'Falmer', you're missing how they became falmer and I do think that the snow elves were the original settlers of skyrim before the atmorans came.

They always were falmer. The snow elves were called Falmer before they became blind goblinoid monsters. It's probably best to label one as just "Falmer" and the other as "Falmer (mutated)"

And yes the Falmer were the original inhabitants of Skyrim, that is until they attacked teh nords and in revenge, the nords wiped them out and conquered the country.

UTG_Zilla wrote: »

Also, I don't think redguards are the same as yokudans but I could be wrong. I thought I remembered reading that the redguards and yokudans were always (or more or less always) fighting and the continent yokuda was destroyed (some think by redguards) and redguards fled to alik'r. I could be wrong about this whole paragraph but swear I read that

Yes you are wrong, Redguards are very much the same as Yokudans. The Yokudans took on the name Redguard instead after series of seven battles in Yokuda circa 1E 780. By the end, more than three hundred thousand people were killed. In the eyes of the citizenry, their guardians were red with blood. So they left Yokuda, sailing across the Eltheric Ocean, and took on the name "Redguard" to commemorate their final battle

Thanks for the input @UTG_Zilla & @Throren. You are both right that I should show that the Falmer actually changed and are considered a different race. (man I wish they had a different name like the Dunmer)

theroyalestpythonnub18_ESO wrote: »

Why Talos/Ebonarm? I know they've both been attributed as gods of war, but I don't think there's much connection there otherwise.

That's pretty much the connection. I looked over the various Gods and no one but Talos seemed to be equivalent. Ebonarm isn't an Ehlnofey and didn't really think any Daedra 'fit'. So... Talos. The explanation I'm using as to how Ebonarm can be Talos when Ebonarm predates Talos is that when Talos achieved divinity, he became Talos of all time. Similar to how he changed Cyrodiil's from a jungle to a forest and it changed for all time... like it was never a jungle in the first place.

theroyalestpythonnub18_ESO wrote: »

The Stendarr/Hoonding connection gives me pause as well, given that The Hoonding is a deity rather exclusive to Redguards. But maybe I'm missing something?

According to UESP Hoonding "spirit of 'perseverance over infidels'. The HoonDing has historically materialized whenever the Redguards needed to 'make way' for their people". When considering Stendarr is the god of God of Mercy & Well-Earned Luck I made the leap that Hoonding could be "compassionately making a way by providing his followers with luck"

I know both are HUGE stretches and I'm completely open to other interpretations @theroyalestpythonnub18_ESO. Ebonarm and Hoonding neither seem to be physical beings, especially Ebonarm who seems to only appears through avatars, mortals imbued with his spirit.

Rosveen wrote: »

Just some details: who is the Bear? Why is Tsun showed twice? Did you ever explain why you associate Tu'whacca with Magnus? And the line betwee Breton and Altmer is unclear, it looks like Altmer are descended from Bretons.

Thanks for catching those errors @Rosveen! Stendarr would be the Bear (added) I HAD Tsun as Zenithar but changed him to a Ehlnofey... I just neglected to remove Tsun from Zenithar. Thanks for catching that.

As for Tu'whacca:

Tu'whacca, before the creation of the world, was the god of nothingness. When Tall Papa undertook the creation of the Walkabout, Tu'whacca found a purpose; he became the caretaker of the Far Shores, and continues to help Redguards find their way into the afterlife.

Magnus fled to Aetherius in the last of Mundus' birth-pains, and his departure tore a hole which became Nirn's sun, itself known as Magnus.

Arkay is the son of Akatosh, who is Tall Pappa. So while it may be common belief that Tu`whacca is Arkay, I think it's a misconception because it seems Tu'wacca is more closely akin to Magnus than Akatosh.

You are so right about the Breton/Altmer association. I need to change it to an Aldmer line not from ALTmer. Also, there is some disagreements as to the line of men from which the Bretons sprung. Some believe it was the Nedes, some believe it was the Atmorans.

Generally, I think you're trying too hard to associate as many gods from different pantheons as you can, even when it's far-fetched and based only on your personal theories. Which is fine as a start of a lore discussion, but without explanation it might be more confusing to new people than simply presenting each racial pantheon separately. But then you did say it's your own view.