Visualization of the Pantheon of the Elder Scrolls - FINAL VERSION UPLOADED! :D

Elder_III

This thread is wonderful. I keep browsing back over it and finding names and/or connections that I had forgotten about.

lathbury

loving this want it as a mouse mat

Gidorick

OK. Revision 2 is up... I think all I have left is to add the tribunal...

lathbury

gonna be annoying now but where do the celestials fit in? as they seem to have a bearing on things.

Gidorick

Who do you mean when you say "The Celestials" @lathbury?

lathbury

the mage warrior thief serpent etc they seem to have some power over the races of nirn as selecting your starsign has granted abilites etc. also now we meet some of them in craglorn.

Gidorick

Ah, I see. The birthsigns aren't sentient. They're simply constellations. I always considered the 9 birthsigns to be assocated with the 9 divines... and now that I think of it. The Magne-Ge ARE the stars so I guess they would play a part too.

lathbury

yeah except we meet them in crag and they are sentient i thought along the lines of being like magnus or magna ge and created around the same time.
this is all i have been able to find and not helpful really

Celestials are beings of immense power plummeted from the sky in The Elder Scrolls Online.[1]

it also seems that given the events in craglorn this snippet about the constellations maybe taken literally

There are thirteen named constellations in the sky. There are three Guardian signs; The Warrior, The Mage, and The Thief, each of which protects three charges. Each of these twelve signs corresponds to one of the twelve months in the Tamrielic year. The thirteenth sign, The Serpent, has no guardian or month and moves around the sky, usually threatening the other signs.

Gidorick

lathbury wrote: »

yeah except we meet them in crag and they are sentient i thought along the lines of being like magnus or magna ge and created around the same time.

I haven't gone through Craglorn. I'm more of a single player...er... player.

I checked out the Celestials in the Wiki. Since the constellations actually leave the sky during the quest I would say they are the Magne-Ge, The Star Orphans. cool stuff! Thanks for asking that.

lathbury

thanks mate told you I would be a pain lol. you should patent that image or zos will have my money for the mouse mats rich lambert is already lurking

lathbury

would love to see them do something with this like make either an in game lore book or a limited edition IRL one documenting a rogue imperial scholar gidorick's views on the pantheon or even a plate glass window somewhere in game with the image on.

hint hint @ZOS_GinaBruno

Gidorick

lathbury wrote: »

would love to see them do something like with this like make either an in game lore book or a limited edition IRL one documenting a rogue imperial scholar gidorick's views on the pantheon or even a plate glass window somewhere in game with the image on.

hint hint @ZOS_GinaBruno

lol. That would be awesome. The image isn't finalized... yet!

I think the only thing I have left is to add the Tribunal to that empty space to the right and finish adding the Khajiit names for the deities.

Enodoc

Nice revision
A few points:

• Tu'whacca is an aspect of Arkay, not Lorkhan
• I don't think Baan Dar and Lorkhan are equivalent, as the Khajiiti and Bosmeri pantheons already have Lorkhan
• I believe the lines of Bretons and Imperials derived from Nedes, not Atmorans, and that Nedes and Atmorans split during The Wandering
• I don't know of any association between Redguards and Phynaster
• I don't know of any association between Mephala and Leki

Gidorick

Thanks @Enodoc. I've taken some liberties with some of thes-ociations due to similarities I see between the different Gods of the different Pantheons. It's kind of like the Mormans saying they worship the Christian God, the Christians saying they worship the Jewish God, and Hindus saying they all worship Hindu Gods.

I had Tu'whacca as an aspect of Arkay, but mistakenly added him to Lorkhan instead of Magnus.

Tu'whacca, before the creation of the world, was the god of nothingness. When Tall Papa undertook the creation of the Walkabout, Tu'whacca found a purpose; he became the caretaker of the Far Shores, and continues to help Redguards find their way into the afterlife.

Arkay is the son of Akatosh, who is Tall Pappa. So while it may be common belief that Tu`whacca is Arkay, I think it's a misconception. Me associating him with Lorkhan was just a mistake on my part. Thanks for looking out.

The Khajiit pantheon has Lorkhan apart from Jone and Jode, which are Masser & Secunda... so I was comfortable making the association with Lorkhan (who tricked the Et'Ada into making Mundus) and Baan Dar, the Trickster God.

The exact origin of the Nedes is contested, I'll give you that. It's my belief that when the Ehlnofey came to Nirn they first settled in 4 provinces and formed district cultures. Those that settled in Atmora lost much of their magic and became the Atmorans. Likewise some settled in Yokuda and became Yokudans. Some also settled in Aldmeris and retained their magic and those were aldmer. Lastly, a group of Ehlnofey asked in Akavir and who knows what hot Hell those settlers went through to make all the Akaviri races. The Ehlnofey that went to Tamriel were a different group but it's my belief that they didn't homogenize into one specific culture. They continued to pour themselves into the creation of Tamriel and most of them eventually died off but I think there were some Atmorans that traveled to Tamriel and mixed with the Ehlnofey there and brought them the concept of culture and those unions resulted in the creation of the Nedes. If I add them, they will likely be added after the Atmorans. Because I don't think the Ehlnofey were on the road to creating a people prior to the Atmorans arriving on Tamriel.

The influence of Phynaster was on the Altmer, not Redguard. I thought I changed that to Onsi the Boneshaver. One too many undos I guess.

My association of Mephala and Leki is a stretch... but Mephala likes to meddle in mortal affairs and Leki has done just that. Any other suggestions would be welcomed!

I'm really going off of the following assumptions to make the associations.

There are 9 divines, 16 daedra, Lorkhan, Magnus, and the Ehlnofey that are worshipped as gods. If the god died, they're probably Ehlnofey. The Magne-ge don't interact with Mundus, they abandoned their creation long ago so they don't influence Nirn enough to be as active as these gods seem. There is a good deal of shoehorning, as you will see in my next revision.

I'd love to sit down and talk about this in game, perhaps we could meet at an inn or a Mages Guild hall to discuss this? I'm NA server with characters in all 3 factions. My main is Daggerfall Covenant.

This might actually be something we could organize for multiple people to take part.

Ffastyl

I would love to take part!

And with your main in Daggerfall Covenant, I can help you sight-see Craglorn as well.

Gidorick

Ffastyl wrote: »

I would love to take part!

And with your main in Daggerfall Covenant, I can help you sight-see Craglorn as well.

Awesome! So NA server works? Man I wish we weren't seperated by faction when we go to other regions. Cyrodiil would be cool to meet in but we'd probably spend the time fighting. Lol!

We should probably meet in starting Zones. That way anyone can join in. Stros M`kai might be nice. It would be nice to have a reason to go back there.

Enodoc

Gidorick wrote: »

Thanks @Enodoc. I've taken some liberties with some of thes-ociations due to similarities I see between the different Gods of the different Pantheons. It's kind of like the Mormans saying they worship the Christian God, the Christians saying they worship the Jewish God, and Hindus saying they all worship Hindu Gods.

I had Tu'whacca as an aspect of Arkay, but mistakenly added him to Lorkhan instead of Magnus.

Tu'whacca, before the creation of the world, was the god of nothingness. When Tall Papa undertook the creation of the Walkabout, Tu'whacca found a purpose; he became the caretaker of the Far Shores, and continues to help Redguards find their way into the afterlife.

Arkay is the son of Akatosh, who is Tall Pappa. So while it may be common belief that Tu`whacca is Arkay, I think it's a misconception. Me associating him with Lorkhan was just a mistake on my part. Thanks for looking out.

I think the primary association between Tu'whaaca and Arkay is caretaker of the afterlife. According to Varieties of Faith, Forebear Redguards worship Tu'whaaca and Arkay interchangeably in the "more cosmopolitan regions of Hammerfell".

The Khajiit pantheon has Lorkhan apart from Jone and Jode, which are Masser & Secunda... so I was comfortable making the association with Lorkhan (who tricked the Et'Ada into making Mundus) and Baan Dar, the Trickster God.

Now that first part is indeed true, but that is because they consider Jone, Jode and Lorkhaj as three parts of ja'Kha'jay. Where other pantheons have Masser and Secunda together as "Lorkhan's body", in Khajiiti culture, Lorkhaj is associated with the third moon, the "dead moon". So in that way. Jone and Jode can be worshipped separately from Lorkhaj while still being part of the same. I don't think Baan Dar applies in the same context.

The exact origin of the Nedes is contested, I'll give you that. It's my belief that when the Ehlnofey came to Nirn they first settled in 4 provinces and formed district cultures. Those that settled in Atmora lost much of their magic and became the Atmorans. Likewise some settled in Yokuda and became Yokudans. Some also settled in Aldmeris and retained their magic and those were aldmer. Lastly, a group of Ehlnofey asked in Akavir and who knows what hot Hell those settlers went through to make all the Akaviri races. The Ehlnofey that went to Tamriel were a different group but it's my belief that they didn't homogenize into one specific culture. They continued to pour themselves into the creation of Tamriel and most of them eventually died off but I think there were some Atmorans that traveled to Tamriel and mixed with the Ehlnofey there and brought them the concept of culture and those unions resulted in the creation of the Nedes. If I add them, they will likely be added after the Atmorans. Because I don't think the Ehlnofey were on the road to creating a people prior to the Atmorans arriving on Tamriel.

Ah, Nedes. Yeah, there will always be contested opinions there. My view is that the Ehlnofey Who Stayed Put on Aldmeris became the Aldmer, while the Wanderers wandered off to different places. Some wandered to Atmora (Atmorans), some wandered to Yokuda (Yokudans), some wandered to Akavir (Akaviri), but some wandered back to where they started (Nedes). I would therefore say the Nedes were on Tamriel long before the first Atmorans arrived (which I would put as the arrival of the Nords).

My association of Mephala and Leki is a stretch... but Mephala likes to meddle in mortal affairs and Leki has done just that. Any other suggestions would be welcomed!

I don't really know where to put Leki, but she is Tall Papa's daughter, and therefore intrinsically Anuic, so I don't think she should be on the Daedric side.

I'd love to sit down and talk about this in game, perhaps we could meet at an inn or a Mages Guild hall to discuss this? I'm NA server with characters in all 3 factions. My main is Daggerfall Covenant.

That would be great, unfortunately I'm on EU

Gidorick

Ah bummer @Enodoc. Can we switch between servers like we can on console?

If Leki isn't Daedra and she isn't a divine, she must be Earth Bones, Old Ehlnofey. I'll have to read more about her to see if that makes sense.

Kind of in the same boat with Baan Dar I guess. Lol.

Enodoc

Gidorick wrote: »

Ah bummer @Enodoc. Can we switch between servers like we can on console?

If Leki isn't Daedra and she isn't a divine, she must be Earth Bones, Old Ehlnofey. I'll have to read more about her to see if that makes sense.

Kind of in the same boat with Baan Dar I guess. Lol.

Technically yes, but we would have to download the client again or otherwise "trick" the launcher by renaming the ESO folder so it thinks it is the other client (haven't tried that since launch, so I don't know if it still works).

Leki is probably Ehlnofey considering how much time she spent on assisting the ancient Yokudans with their swordsmanship. Although it may be that there are a few Aedra who are neither Divines (who gave their energy in Creation) nor Ehlnofey (who gave themselves so they might Stay), so maybe she and some others (Onsi, Phynaster, Baan Dar, Syrabane) fit into that category. (Alternatively, they may all just be Ehlnofey.)

Have you seen the Gods lore page on UESP?

Throren

new version is a bit too small to read

Edit: nevermind, didn't see the link

Moonscythe

Gidorick said:
Awesome! So NA server works? Man I wish we weren't seperated by faction when we go to other regions. Cyrodiil would be cool to meet in but we'd probably spend the time fighting. Lol!

and that's why Cyrodil needs a neutral zone.

lathbury

AD EU here such a shame cant meet up with you for this as I have loads of questions.

Gidorick

Enodoc wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Ah bummer @Enodoc. Can we switch between servers like we can on console?

If Leki isn't Daedra and she isn't a divine, she must be Earth Bones, Old Ehlnofey. I'll have to read more about her to see if that makes sense.

Kind of in the same boat with Baan Dar I guess. Lol.

Technically yes, but we would have to download the client again or otherwise "trick" the launcher by renaming the ESO folder so it thinks it is the other client (haven't tried that since launch, so I don't know if it still works).

Leki is probably Ehlnofey considering how much time she spent on assisting the ancient Yokudans with their swordsmanship. Although it may be that there are a few Aedra who are neither Divines (who gave their energy in Creation) nor Ehlnofey (who gave themselves so they might Stay), so maybe she and some others (Onsi, Phynaster, Baan Dar, Syrabane) fit into that category. (Alternatively, they may all just be Ehlnofey.)

Have you seen the Gods lore page on UESP?

I have seen that page on UESP... but, just as all Wikis... they can contain inconsistencies and inaccuracies.

I would love to know if there is a source for: "Other divine spirits, or Ada," I've never heard of the "Ada"....

Robo_Hobo

I lean a bit toward Topal's fragments with the origin of the Khajiit myself. Great work though, really like this.

Rosveen

Gidorick wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Ah bummer @Enodoc. Can we switch between servers like we can on console?

If Leki isn't Daedra and she isn't a divine, she must be Earth Bones, Old Ehlnofey. I'll have to read more about her to see if that makes sense.

Kind of in the same boat with Baan Dar I guess. Lol.

Technically yes, but we would have to download the client again or otherwise "trick" the launcher by renaming the ESO folder so it thinks it is the other client (haven't tried that since launch, so I don't know if it still works).

Leki is probably Ehlnofey considering how much time she spent on assisting the ancient Yokudans with their swordsmanship. Although it may be that there are a few Aedra who are neither Divines (who gave their energy in Creation) nor Ehlnofey (who gave themselves so they might Stay), so maybe she and some others (Onsi, Phynaster, Baan Dar, Syrabane) fit into that category. (Alternatively, they may all just be Ehlnofey.)

Have you seen the Gods lore page on UESP?

I have seen that page on UESP... but, just as all Wikis... they can contain inconsistencies and inaccuracies.

I would love to know if there is a source for: "Other divine spirits, or Ada," I've never heard of the "Ada"....

Ada means spirit/god in Ayleidoon. Et'Ada probably means original spirit. Pelinal once referred to himself and Morihaus as Ada.

And UESP is the most reliable, most carefully maintained wiki out there. Inaccuracies... Hard to avoid them when TES lore itself is filled with ambiguous records. At least they tend to clearly mark assumptions. You know, your chart contains unproved assumptions as well...

Elder_III

We need Lawrence Schick (sp?) to weigh in on this thread.

Gidorick

Rosveen wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Ah bummer @Enodoc. Can we switch between servers like we can on console?

If Leki isn't Daedra and she isn't a divine, she must be Earth Bones, Old Ehlnofey. I'll have to read more about her to see if that makes sense.

Kind of in the same boat with Baan Dar I guess. Lol.

Technically yes, but we would have to download the client again or otherwise "trick" the launcher by renaming the ESO folder so it thinks it is the other client (haven't tried that since launch, so I don't know if it still works).

Leki is probably Ehlnofey considering how much time she spent on assisting the ancient Yokudans with their swordsmanship. Although it may be that there are a few Aedra who are neither Divines (who gave their energy in Creation) nor Ehlnofey (who gave themselves so they might Stay), so maybe she and some others (Onsi, Phynaster, Baan Dar, Syrabane) fit into that category. (Alternatively, they may all just be Ehlnofey.)

Have you seen the Gods lore page on UESP?

I have seen that page on UESP... but, just as all Wikis... they can contain inconsistencies and inaccuracies.

I would love to know if there is a source for: "Other divine spirits, or Ada," I've never heard of the "Ada"....

Ada means spirit/god in Ayleidoon. Et'Ada probably means original spirit. Pelinal once referred to himself and Morihaus as Ada.

And UESP is the most reliable, most carefully maintained wiki out there. Inaccuracies... Hard to avoid them when TES lore itself is filled with ambiguous records. At least they tend to clearly mark assumptions. You know, your chart contains unproved assumptions as well...

I would like to see the source for the reference to the `Ada`

And my chart does contain unproven assumptions for sure. But I'm trying to base my assumptions off of lore, not other unproven assumptions. I would like to read more about how the Ada differ from Ehlnofey and The Divines before I add them to the chart.

Snowstrider

This is pretty but a bit inaccurate

Gidorick

Snowstrider wrote: »

This is pretty but a bit inaccurate

That's why I posted it. To get opinions on how it should be grown and changed. How is it inaccurate @Snowstrider?

Rosveen

Gidorick wrote: »

Rosveen wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Ah bummer @Enodoc. Can we switch between servers like we can on console?

If Leki isn't Daedra and she isn't a divine, she must be Earth Bones, Old Ehlnofey. I'll have to read more about her to see if that makes sense.

Kind of in the same boat with Baan Dar I guess. Lol.

Technically yes, but we would have to download the client again or otherwise "trick" the launcher by renaming the ESO folder so it thinks it is the other client (haven't tried that since launch, so I don't know if it still works).

Leki is probably Ehlnofey considering how much time she spent on assisting the ancient Yokudans with their swordsmanship. Although it may be that there are a few Aedra who are neither Divines (who gave their energy in Creation) nor Ehlnofey (who gave themselves so they might Stay), so maybe she and some others (Onsi, Phynaster, Baan Dar, Syrabane) fit into that category. (Alternatively, they may all just be Ehlnofey.)

Have you seen the Gods lore page on UESP?

I have seen that page on UESP... but, just as all Wikis... they can contain inconsistencies and inaccuracies.

I would love to know if there is a source for: "Other divine spirits, or Ada," I've never heard of the "Ada"....

Ada means spirit/god in Ayleidoon. Et'Ada probably means original spirit. Pelinal once referred to himself and Morihaus as Ada.

And UESP is the most reliable, most carefully maintained wiki out there. Inaccuracies... Hard to avoid them when TES lore itself is filled with ambiguous records. At least they tend to clearly mark assumptions. You know, your chart contains unproved assumptions as well...

I would like to see the source for the reference to the `Ada`

And my chart does contain unproven assumptions for sure. But I'm trying to base my assumptions off of lore, not other unproven assumptions. I would like to read more about how the Ada differ from Ehlnofey and The Divines before I add them to the chart.

Sure. I would have linked it earlier, but I was on the bus, so I didn't want to delve into UESP. Here it is.
"We are ada, Mor, and change things through love. We must take care lest we beget more monsters on this earth. If you do not desist, she will take to you, and you will transform all Cyrod if you do this."

Think Ada-mantia, Spirit-Law, and its Altmer copy Crystal-like-Law.

I don't think it's necessary to add Ada to your chart, it would be too confusing. They are simply lesser spirits or even just spirits in general.