theroyalestpythonnub18_ESO wrote: »Why Talos/Ebonarm? I know they've both been attributed as gods of war, but I don't think there's much connection there otherwise.
theroyalestpythonnub18_ESO wrote: »The Stendarr/Hoonding connection gives me pause as well, given that The Hoonding is a deity rather exclusive to Redguards. But maybe I'm missing something?
Just some details: who is the Bear? Why is Tsun showed twice? Did you ever explain why you associate Tu'whacca with Magnus? And the line betwee Breton and Altmer is unclear, it looks like Altmer are descended from Bretons.
@GidorickI think that's all. Mistakes aside, great work! Star Wars picture aside, great design!
- Magnus/Magna-Ge are not Aedra;
- Tu'whacca is the Yokudan aspect of Arkay not Magnus;
- Orkey is Malacath & Arkay combined;
- Xarxes and Riddle'Thar are not Julianos;
- Kyne is also the Goddess of the Hunt. Dragons call her Kaan;
- Mauloch is not Mara;
- HoonDing is not Stendarr;
- Ebonarm is not Talos;
- Boethiah is The Anticipation of Almalexia;
- You make no distinction between Jyggalag and Sheogorath. You should also mention how the other Daedric Princes turned Jyggalag into Sheogorath;
- Some people say Shor is the Fox and that Orkey is the Snake, some say Shor is the Snake and that Ysmir or Orkey are the Fox. For that reason, I think you should remove the Animal Pantheon;
- Mephala is The Anticipation of Vivec;
- Corprus was created by Dagoth Ur not Molag Bal;
- I don't understand that whole Ehlnofey thingy. Only Y'free is an Ehlnofey. Ada ≠ Earth Bones.
- Atmoran --> Nord; Nede --> Imperial; Nede + Aldmer --> Breton.
"Do NOT associate us Nords with those Milkdrinkers, we have nothing in common!";- Maybe you should mention that the Old Ehlnofey became the Aldmer and that the Wandering Ehlnofey became the Ancestor Races of Men (Yokudan, Atmoran, Nede...);
- This is just my personal opinion, but I don't think Khajiit were Elves.
How can Tu'wakka be Arkay if Tu'wakka existed BEFORE Akatosh (Tall Papa) who is said to be the father of Arkay?Tu'whacca, before the creation of the world, was the god of nothingness. When Tall Papa undertook the creation of the Walkabout, Tu'whacca found a purpose; he became the caretaker of the Far Shores, and continues to help Redguards find their way into the afterlife.
Magnus fled to Aetherius in the last of Mundus' birth-pains, and his departure tore a hole which became Nirn's sun, itself known as Magnus.
Arkay is the son of Akatosh, who is Tall Pappa. So while it may be common belief that Tu`whacca is Arkay, I think it's a misconception because it seems Tu'wacca is more closely akin to Magnus than Akatosh.
Generally, I think you're trying too hard to associate as many gods from different pantheons as you can, even when it's far-fetched and based only on your personal theories. Which is fine as a start of a lore discussion, but without explanation it might be more confusing to new people than simply presenting each racial pantheon separately. But then you did say it's your own view.
I would appreciate a bit more information on some of your comments.
It's all a matter of opinion, and after some thought I've come to consider Magnus, Lorkhan & The Magna-Ge as Aedra. Even though they didn't do as much as the Ehlnofey and the Eight Divines, they still helped in some way, unlike the Daedra.How are the divines and Magnus/Magne-Ge different?
All Et'Ada were "born" at the same time. Akatosh was just the first to form an identity, which aided other Et'Ada in forming their own identities. Arkay was one of the very first spirits to do it after the start of time. The terminology of son/daughter of "X" can also refer to a close associate or subordinate of said being, not necessarily their biological offspring.How can Tu'wakka be Arkay if Tu'wakka existed BEFORE Akatosh (Tall Papa) who is said to be the father of Arkay?
"Orkey (Old Knocker): God of mortality, Orkey combines aspects of Mauloch and Arkay. He is a "loan-god" for the Nords, who seem to have taken up his worship during Aldmeri rule of Atmora. Nords believe they once lived as long as Elves until Orkey appeared, through heathen trickery, he fooled them into a bargain that "bound them to the count of winters." At one time, legends say, Nords only had a lifespan of six years due to Orkey's foul magic. Then Shor showed up and, through unknown means, removed the curse, throwing most of it onto the nearby Orcs." - Varieties of Faith: The NordsWhere did you get the information about Orkey being Malacath AND Arkay
Who would Xarxes, Riddle'Thar, Mauloch, Hoonding, and Ebonarm be then?
Ehlnofey are Et'Ada who stayed in Mundus, whether it be because they couldn't leave or because they wanted to stay. Many followed the example of Y'ffre and sacrificed themselves to form the rules of nature, and so becoming The Earth Bones. Others populated Nirn, becoming the progenitors of the modern races. By the end of the Dawn Era the Ehlnofey were long gone.If only Y'free is Ehlnofey, then what are the rest of them?
If Ada aren't Ehlnofey, what are they? They're not Divines, they're not mortals.
Official Source?...there's enough lore to support that they (Khajiit) came from the same lines as the Mer.
Whoa there.... nothing existed before Akatosh (aside from Anu/Anuiel and Padomay/Sithis), as Akatosh is "universally revered as the "First God.""How can Tu'wakka be Arkay if Tu'wakka existed BEFORE Akatosh (Tall Papa) who is said to be the father of Arkay?
Who would Xarxes, Riddle'Thar, Mauloch, Hoonding, and Ebonarm be then?
- Xarxes and Riddle'Thar are not Julianos;
- Mauloch is not Mara;
- HoonDing is not Stendarr;
- Ebonarm is not Talos;
We've discussed the Ehlnofey a bit in this tread. If only Y'free is Ehlnofey, then what are the rest of them?
If Ada aren't Ehlnofey, what are they? They're not Divines, they're not mortals.
By me saying Tu'wakka existed BEFORE Akatosh, I mean the manifestation of the deity in Mundus. It is my understanding that Magnus retreated and created the sun and then Akatosh (along with the other Aedra) continued to create Mundus until some stopped to crystalize into the divines... and still more continued to become the Ehlnofey.
I recognize that Arkay isn't Akatosh's biological child but I believe Arkay crystalized and manifested in mundus after Akatosh (making him a son of Akatosh). Iit appears that Tu'wakka settled into his role as the keeper of the Far Shores prior to the crystallization of the divines. Also, when Mundus began to form, Magnus left and tore a hole into Aetherius.
I see these two events (Magnus tearing into the Aetherius and Tu'wakka "finding" purpose) as being the same event.
It's a stretch, but I personally see more thematic similarities between Magnus and Tu'wakka than Tu'wakka and Akatosh. Especially considering that the creation of Akatosh is even up for debate.
"Orkey combines aspects of Mauloch and Arkay"
I'm comfortable not making mention of the combination of aspects on this image... I wouldn't consider Orkey to be Arkay. I think the combination of aspects is likely due to Trinimac becoming Malacath.
As for Khajiit being Mer:
"Alternate theories abound that their origin, based mainly around the fact that one of the breeds of Khajiit, the Ohmes-Raht, so closely resembles the elven folk that they could be cousins. Some believe that the Khajiit are simply descendant of the original Aldmer settlers in Tamriel, who evolved, like the Altmer, Bosmer, Dunmer, and Orsimer, because of circumstance, ito the cat-like race that walks the dunes of Elsweyr. If so, they are just one more of the alien, sentient species who have made themselves so much a part of Tamriel to be confused for natives." Sugar and Blood: The Cats of the South
Of course... the next breath of that article states that:
"The more commonly held belief, however, is that they were not foreign intelligent creatures who became cats to survive the hostile, arid land of Elsweyr, but they were indigenous cats whose knack for change allowed them to survive while other native creatures declined and disappeared. It is strange to think that so inhospitable a land, of blistering heat and crop destroying wind, would have been the fecund womb for one of the original predators of Tamriel, but that seems to be the unlikely likelihood."
This is what I held to be true, that, like the Argonians, the Khajiit descended from the beasts of Tamriel by being influenced by supernatural means (Hist and Azura) but then I learned that according to the Khajiit themselves...
"But Y'ffer heard the First Secret and snuck in behind Azurah. And Y'ffer could not appreciate secrets, and he told Nirni of Azurah's trick. So Nirni made the deserts hot and the sands biting. And Nirni made the forests wet and filled with poisons. And Nirni thanked Y'ffer and let him change the forest people also. And Y'ffer did not have Azurah's subtle wisdom, so Y'ffer made the forest people Elves always and never beasts. And Y'ffer named them Bosmer. And from that moment they were no longer in the same litter as the Khajiit." Words of Clan Mother Ahnissi to her Favored Daughter
And then there's the fact that the Ohmes look like...
To me, it would make more sense that Azua would change a mer to look like a cats than change cats to look like mer. This is, however, purely a personal opinion.
I personally disagree that there are just "other gods" That didn't
- Opt-out with the Daedra
- Flee with the Magne-ge
- Crystalize into a divine
- Become Ehlnofey
I have, however, been considering and wondering if there are Aedric equivalents of Dremora. If there were, that would explain many of the random gods... they are "avatars of the divines". Manifestations of sorts. This would explain the separate divine entities and they would be connected to the divines. These could be the Ada.
I would have to agree that Riddle'Thar isn't Julianos. I read on some random forum a while back where one player liked to think of Riddle'Thar as the Khajiit version of Trinimac (I don't agree with this, just thought it was interesting).
I quite like the idea of attaching Riddle'Thar to the Lunar Lattice. I wonder if it would make sense to associate the Riddle'Thar with Mundus itself or maybe even go as far as associate it with Aurbis.
I found this quote I quite like:
"The Riddle’Thar is not a being. Khajiit see Riddle’Thar all around us. Thus, we explain what is around us through Riddle’Thar. Alkosh was always Alkosh. He used to be more, too, but now he’s just mostly Alkosh." Moon-bishop Najul
They are very much alive at the time of ESO.I_killed_Vivec wrote: »
He's in Red Mountain still, he won't wake up and bind himself to the Heart for another 300 years.I_killed_Vivec wrote: »They are very much alive at the time of ESO.I_killed_Vivec wrote: »
But, but... I'm sure I killed Vivec (put up a good fight for a scrawny man) and Almalexia a dozen years ago!
As the false gods are there, what about Dagoth Ur? He was "immortal" - until I killed him too
I've been mulling over people like Dagoth Ur, who are immortal but aren't worshipped as Gods. I think that's where I'm drawing the line, if they aren't considered to be Gods, I'm not including them.
So, Dagoth Ur and The Nerevarine wouldn't be included. I think I'm going to add the Numidium with an influence line to the Dwemer.
I_killed_Vivec wrote: »I've been mulling over people like Dagoth Ur, who are immortal but aren't worshipped as Gods. I think that's where I'm drawing the line, if they aren't considered to be Gods, I'm not including them.
So, Dagoth Ur and The Nerevarine wouldn't be included. I think I'm going to add the Numidium with an influence line to the Dwemer.
If you include the Numidium, and it would add completeness to some stories, then don't you have to add Akulakhan? In which case you have to include Dagoth Ur!
And what about the dragons?
Though I seem to remember I killed Alduin too
Dragons are already on the chart. Though shouldn't it be dov, not dova?
(As of revision 5)
So awesome @Gidorick !
I was wondering if you were going to make reference to Sheogorath being the 'Hero of Kvatch'/'Champion of Cyrodiil', given the Shivering Isles expansion.
(As of revision 5)
So awesome @Gidorick !
I was wondering if you were going to make reference to Sheogorath being the 'Hero of Kvatch'/'Champion of Cyrodiil', given the Shivering Isles expansion.
I don't think so @BBSooner. Pretty much all of the "events" that are outlined in this chart happened in the Dawn, Mythic, and First Eras and I think the whole shivering isles event is really a minor event in the grand scheme of things.
(As of revision 5)
So awesome @Gidorick !
I was wondering if you were going to make reference to Sheogorath being the 'Hero of Kvatch'/'Champion of Cyrodiil', given the Shivering Isles expansion.
I don't think so @BBSooner. Pretty much all of the "events" that are outlined in this chart happened in the Dawn, Mythic, and First Eras and I think the whole shivering isles event is really a minor event in the grand scheme of things.
True, though it's an example of the concept of Mantling - a la Talos.