ToRelax wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

Lol. To the sorcs crying to give cloak same treatment as bolt :

Lets make some skill make you unable to bolt (like piercing mark does to cloak) and on top of that, so AoE damage stops you from bolting.

Overall good nerfs. Shieldstackers, permarollers and permablockers tears taste good.

Like Piercing Mark?
So you would give Sorcs a skill that makes only them always Bolt Escape automatically with the target when it uses Bolt Escape - to stay in range?
And on top of that Cloak gets more expensive with every cast.
Sounds super fun, deal.

Yea and dont skip the fun part, ANY class using aoe close to the sorcerer trying to bolt "breaks" the bolt Deal ?

Edit: I'm no magicka NB so I dont spam cloak, in fine with cost increase on it

ToRelax wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

Lol. To the sorcs crying to give cloak same treatment as bolt :

Lets make some skill make you unable to bolt (like piercing mark does to cloak) and on top of that, so AoE damage stops you from bolting.

Overall good nerfs. Shieldstackers, permarollers and permablockers tears taste good.

Like Piercing Mark?
So you would give Sorcs a skill that makes only them always Bolt Escape automatically with the target when it uses Bolt Escape - to stay in range?
And on top of that Cloak gets more expensive with every cast.
Sounds super fun, deal.

Yea and dont skip the fun part, ANY class using aoe close to the sorcerer trying to bolt "breaks" the bolt Deal ?

Edit: I'm no magicka NB so I dont spam cloak, in fine with cost increase on it

I am not sure how to do the AoE part. Bolt Escape has no duration, you could be teleported back at best.
Like, if your Bolt Escape cost penalty is currently active, you'd get teleported back to where you casted it the last time should you get hit by an AoE attack. Oh, I can already see the NB rage when they fear me 20m away.

Haha yes the rage would be epic . Dont get me wrong the new nerf to bolt/streak im totally against.
Only thing I dislike (except the 2 new vr's and be nerf) is that there is no cost increase/no manaregen penalty when spamming shields. That will make shieldstacking the most effective , active way of migating damage.
And we both know who got the best shieldstacking ingame

I think sorcs and mana nbs will be on top of the foodchain in that update. Good players (like you) will adapt. The masses will look for the new meta/FOTM.

Sorry again if My english writing isn't the best ^^

Edit 2: now when I think about it , Im afraid of the penalty on blocking since I'm leveling a new DK . RIP My new dk

They really don't like players being able to 1vX people... I think I'd rather go back to WoW battlegrounds at this point before I play another minute in ESO.

Or maybe Guild Wars 2! I hear they shook up the pvp meta in that game recently.

just had a thought. caltrops v cloakers is gonna be realllly nice.

I'm most worried about how Templars will get out of this.

Will percentage based skills be influenced by the Battle spirit buff?
If yes, then templars get multiple 75% nerfs, as they have skills that use a percentage of the damage they do as healing, or a percentage of their shields as damage.

If Percentage based skills don't count then they will receive (still) quite a few nerfs, but also a major boost (like some other classes).
Classes like DK and NB have percentage based healing, based on the resource pool rather than damage dealt (unlike puncturing sweep).
At the same time Templars have a health based Shield, as well as damage skill. Both aspects are percentage based, so where other classes would get a damage and shield nerf, Templars would remain unchanged.

I'm curious...

Soris wrote: »

Blocking with 50% cost reductions(bracing+fortress) currently cost you 1050 stamina for EACH hit. By saying each hits, it means even light attacks, caltrops ticks etc all counts in. And things like biting jabs counts as 4 hits for each cast which means 4k stamina to block a full duration jabs.
Even with 40k stamina(and I wonder how you get that)you have to nonstop spam Earthen Hearth skills only to neutralize stamina loss in any given 1vX fight. It is no way near practical. Any "perma blocker" who is not a target dummy have not that much stamina and regen. 10k - 20k is what you will have to have some tankiness without losing other stats which 90% of dks currently. So stamina return will be even less.
It's like saying "50k health templars will rekt everyone with blazing shield" which was also your hype before 1.6 released.
Be real please. These are the facts. Add them to your dreams.

If you can't kill a normal block build then it's your own problem. If you mean dedicated tanks, why do you bother with them in first place and alone? Why do they even exists I wonder. They are not in a place we can discuss about or do balance through them.

You can't block caltrops. (Anymore)

vichoi wrote: »

I understand ZOS want sorc to stay in the fight instead of running, however, those sorc gave up dps for survibility are rely on BE to stay alive, the BE spam sorcs have far less dps.

Unlike DK and Templar they can tank for a while and wait for ally when outnumber. Sorc need BE to stay alive and wait for help, or they just die.

I can't take you seriously. Both of these are false.

vichoi wrote: »

Also, we don't want to count 4sec to use next bolt, but at the same time we count 3 for curse, count to 4 for DK reflect? I'd rather they put a cooldown, I hate counting in a fight.

There's an animation for the 4 seconds already in game.

Domander wrote: »

vichoi wrote: »

I understand ZOS want sorc to stay in the fight instead of running, however, those sorc gave up dps for survibility are rely on BE to stay alive, the BE spam sorcs have far less dps.

Unlike DK and Templar they can tank for a while and wait for ally when outnumber. Sorc need BE to stay alive and wait for help, or they just die.

I can't take you seriously. Both of these are false.

vichoi wrote: »

Also, we don't want to count 4sec to use next bolt, but at the same time we count 3 for curse, count to 4 for DK reflect? I'd rather they put a cooldown, I hate counting in a fight.

There's an animation for the 4 seconds already in game.

if its not drowned in other e.g. burning animations or lasts buggyly forever.

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Are all the people claiming to roll a Nightblade for 1.7 the same people who were all going to roll a Templar for 1.6?

Probably, but in this instance they've already been working on their nb for a month or two because it already was the most op class.

Erondil wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Sublime wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Sublime wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

What I don't play is a sustain build, I don't have infinite resources because those make me puke in my mouth.

Out of curiousity: What's your Stamina Regeneration?

1.3K. How is my stamina regen relevant to this topic at all?

My reply was to @Soris, who (mistakengly) called me a glass cannon.

It's not, I was just curious and thought I might ask.
Apart from that it helps me understanding the different types of glass-cannons.

Erondil wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Sure, you probably won't be able to tank 10 people while maintaining infinite CC immunity & 90% mitigation anymore, but you'll still be able to tank for long periods of time (especially with potions, siphoning attacks or helping hands passive).

Potions? Puhahaha. Dude don't be ridiculous. Only newcomers believe that.
Every single thing in your quote is untrue
Come on...

Next time I see one of these permablocker scumbags people I'll record a video, just for you

Also, helping hands passive with 30-40k stamina equals to 1000-1500 stam regen if you use an Earthen Heart ability every 5 seconds (fairly realistic).

Man.. You clearly know nothing other than firing arrows from stealth sorry.
I will quote this again,

DDuke wrote: »

Sure, you probably won't be able to tank 10 people while maintaining infinite CC immunity & 90% mitigation anymore, but you'll still be able to tank for long periods of time (especially with potions, siphoning attacks or helping hands passive).

How can these be even possible??

Blocking with 50% cost reductions(bracing+fortress) currently cost you 1050 stamina for EACH hit. By saying each hits, it means even light attacks, caltrops ticks etc all counts in. And things like biting jabs counts as 4 hits for each cast which means 4k stamina to block a full duration jabs.
Even with 40k stamina(and I wonder how you get that)you have to nonstop spam Earthen Hearth skills only to neutralize stamina loss in any given 1vX fight. It is no way near practical. Any "perma blocker" who is not a target dummy have not that much stamina and regen. 10k - 20k is what you will have to have some tankiness without losing other stats which 90% of dks currently. So stamina return will be even less.
It's like saying "50k health templars will rekt everyone with blazing shield" which was also your hype before 1.6 released.
Be real please. These are the facts. Add them to your dreams.

If you can't kill a normal block build then it's your own problem. If you mean dedicated tanks, why do you bother with them in first place and alone? Why do they even exists I wonder. They are not in a place we can discuss about or do balance through them.

Whisper me in game, I can give you name of one of these I've been seeing a lot in Haderus. Can't do it here due to naming&shaming.

Watched him tank 4 jesus beams & several other people for minutes. When he finally died, he was still blocking.

I even fought the same person at a resource once. He was tanking every single NPC at the resource (I kid you not) and my WW damage (transformed into WW to fear+howl him for instagib) with infinite CC immunity for well over a minute (still blocking when he died).

Not an emperor by the way.

And I've seen similar play by many others, but this one person just pops up every time I think about permablockers ^^


Also, 50k health+Blazing Shield can still be very effective, that fact hasn't changed at all (and would be even stronger if they hadn't decided to reduce dmg shield strengths by 15%, thanks to feedback of intelligent players).

People just aren't experimenting enough, good example is stamina DKs.

Everyone hypes stamina NBs, but truth is that stamina DK has just as much, if not more potential (rationale: only class with access to Minor Brutality buff, only class with Physical dmg ultimate meaning +25% dmg from Mighty, Helping Hands etc).

Come on now. Don't compare regular block builds with extreme tank builds. You can not call nerfs to every single unique block builds just bcs of that one particular pve tank guy.
Did he even manage to drop you under 90% health? I highly doubt that. Once in every Feracious Leap maybe, but that's just that. And you are glass cannon.

I don't think any build should require so little skill (just holding right mouse button) and be unkillable unless greatly outnumbered.

Infinite resources is just a bad, bad idea (especially when said thing grants you infinite survivability as well) and dumbs down the gameplay, taking away the whole resource management aspect.


Also, you know very little about my build if you're calling me a glass cannon ^^

My Vigor actually heals over 50% more than your usual rollerblade's Vigor, and my DW/DW setup runs a 30k Barrier that heals me for 1k/second for 30 seconds.

This alone means I can take on multiple attackers and not get bursted down immediately (though that still happens sometimes) and I can outheal most damage dealt to me by a single person. Without even accounting the 25k health, this makes me the opposite of a glass cannon (in fact, your usual rollerblade running around with 19k health and maybe 8-9k Vigor would be closer to that description).

What I don't play is a sustain build, I don't have infinite resources because those make me puke in my mouth.

You're glasscanon because :
-You cant use nirn (or you would lose a lot of dmg)
-You are oos quite fast
Sure, heals that can scale on stamina/wep dmg heals you for a lot but thats the same for every glasscanon build since damages scale on the same stats than heals. Look at our duels for example, whoever won, it was barely more than 30 seconds fights.

@Erondil, @Sublime , let me explain what "glass cannon" means.

Glass cannon is a build that deals tons of damage, but is extremely squishy.

Someone who has more health & stronger heals than others is the very opposite of "squishy".


For further emphasis:
Your typical rollerblade can die in 0,1 seconds and is more likely unable to outheal damage from multiple sources (e.g. when focused on in 1vX scenario).

Sustain has nothing to do with being a "glass cannon", only TTK on both you & your opponent(s) does.

If I die after 30-60 seconds due to running out of stamina, that's better than dying in <0,1 seconds when it comes to determining whether someone is a glass cannon.


Also @Erondil, I could swap 3 Infused enchants (on large parts) for Nirnhoned and lose around 600 stamina (2% damage), but since Nirnhoned is getting nerfed next patch I don't feel like wasting money (this way I'm also getting practice for what's to come).

I know what glass canon is, thanks, but what you don't seem to understand is that "squishy" isnt only about your amount of hp or what your hots heals you for. You have 25k hp, 5k more than the standard stam nb, but you have what... 30k spell resist less? Your 5k hp wont change anything, if you stand in front of me, I can easily 3-4 hit you (by only using concelead weapon) while I would 5-6 hit a nirn medium armor user with 20k hp. Also, your vigor might heals you for 12k, but its your only heal (not counting barrier because its a 200 cost ultimate so you cant use it in a duel before ~1 minute of fight) while others stamblade usually run rally which can give an huge instant heal. The use of rally also give them an overall higher hps (if they unlocked vigor ofc) eventhough their stamina/wep dmg are lower than your. On top of that, you can't use your defensive tools (heal, rolldodge...) as much as others so you're definitely squishy for me.
Also you are running a full damage setup so your damage are extremly high : you're glasscanon and, as said again you could easily notice it with the duration of our duels : whoever win, they barely last more than 30 seconds when duels agaisnt good stamblades not glasscanon (Blazemaster n he was still playing or Liberate) last several minutes.
No, squishy isnt only about health pool and one tooltip

Correct.
Decimus, you're a glass canon while builds like blazemasters or mine got mediocre/high defense achieved by sacrificing some dmg. Your amount of health doesn't matter, it will just prevent you from getting one hitted.

High Dmg and low defense is the definition of a glass canon, don't tell me your defense is anywhere close to a Shield stacking Sorc, whitestrake using NB, perm block DK or heal/ block spamming Templar.

Keep in mind that my dmg is nowhere close to yours, still our duels are rather short.
Every good Magicka NB with Mark will destroy you.
Heal debuff, dodge ignore, cloak negate. You got nothing against it. Same with DKs using potions or whatever.
Your only solution is to kill enemys as fast as possible, relying on your high burst - a glass canon.

Ps: dennegor is a noob

Domander wrote: »

TheLaw wrote: »

Time to drop my sorc as main, NB time!

Why? because you wont be able to bolt escape 10 times in a row?

1) stamina build is the worst in the game. Not viable.
2) critical surge nerfed so hard that it's laughable. Sap Essence is God mode compared to this.
3) not close up magicka melee attack like concealed weapon so we are almost forced to stay range.
4) no good non - reflect ability like concealed weapon.
5) we fight at range, but get gap closed so easily with no way to create separation.
6) using bolt escape once or twice waste a huge amount of magicka which only provides a larger amount of damage taken from crit surge.
6) no single spammed range ability like funnel health to proc crystal frag. (most similar would be mages wrath which has a base of 7 damage and funnel health has a base of close to 20, so we are forced to use crushing shock, so we can't us DW for the extra spell damage like NB.
7) no viable self heal.
8) towards the bottom on pve dps so it's hard to get groups. I use my stamina temp for pve and now I'll have to use my OP NB with my very OP cloak and very OP fear since my non damaging bolt escape wasn't allowing NB to two shot me.

Thank God I have multiple toons, but I am furious for the people that do not and they rely on their sorc as their main due to a bunch of cry babies yelling nerf. I can deal with all the degenerates yelling nerf, but for ZIP to fold like they did and completely dismantle a class is just a huge red flag of their incompetent knowledge of their game play. Shame on ZOS for giving in to peer pressure. Now the public knows how weak they are and they will be consistently manipulated by the public.

Only thing worse than all the nerfs is my auto spell check on my android phone. I don't have time to go back and correct the errors, but yeah, sorc is total trash now. Also, if your going to ruin an ability as bad as they are going to, then just replace it with something else as apposed to having another ability in the sorc tree that is compete garbage.