Bolt Escape / Dodge / Blocking / Shields Nerf

VirtualElizabeth

Meh, whatever....I found Mist form more useful in PVP anyway. But then again, as a Sorc I actually stayed around and fought people. :P

alaiham2002

Vis wrote: »

Just finished leveling my 4th and last class to v14. All of my alts are at least rank 15, have all weapons/armor to 50, and max undaunted.

RIP my sorc main

Hello any other class I want.

me too

alaiham2002

Garion wrote: »

If this change goes through - and I am sure it will - I will quit the game. It's excessive and an obvious attempt to cater to the casual and QQers who lack the skill to kill sorcs. Based on everything I just heard in that stream, it is pretty obvious they Zenimax do not have a f^cking clue.

what is QQ?

Fizzlewizzle

alaiham2002 wrote: »

Garion wrote: »

If this change goes through - and I am sure it will - I will quit the game. It's excessive and an obvious attempt to cater to the casual and QQers who lack the skill to kill sorcs. Based on everything I just heard in that stream, it is pretty obvious they Zenimax do not have a f^cking clue.

what is QQ?

LatinLegacy

I welcome these changes. My ambush nightblade will have fun tearing scrub sorcs a new one .

Ezareth

LatinLegacy wrote: »

I welcome these changes. My ambush nightblade will have fun tearing scrub sorcs a new one .

I can't think of the ambush NB I've ever run from. Wait for little animation, release crystal frag, mop up the rest. Something about Ambush has always made me feel in control when I'm on my sorc.....and that's probably why I almost never slot it on my NB.

The more I think about it the more I think stamblades will have a much harder time against sorcs in 1.7.

LatinLegacy

Ezareth wrote: »

LatinLegacy wrote: »

I welcome these changes. My ambush nightblade will have fun tearing scrub sorcs a new one .

I can't think of the ambush NB I've ever run from. Wait for little animation, release crystal frag, mop up the rest. Something about Ambush has always made me feel in control when I'm on my sorc.....and that's probably why I almost never slot it on my NB.

The more I think about it the more I think stamblades will have a much harder time against sorcs in 1.7.

It does come down to the player but outside of the empress on Chilrend, most of the Vet 14 Sorcs actually bolt escape from me lol. Including the ones on Azura's Star, my home campaign. A good rotation of diverse skills make the difference. Not the damage itself. I run fear, cripple & flying blade on my rotations. Makes it very difficult for a sorc to escape hence the need to bolt.

Ezareth

LatinLegacy wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

LatinLegacy wrote: »

I welcome these changes. My ambush nightblade will have fun tearing scrub sorcs a new one .

I can't think of the ambush NB I've ever run from. Wait for little animation, release crystal frag, mop up the rest. Something about Ambush has always made me feel in control when I'm on my sorc.....and that's probably why I almost never slot it on my NB.

The more I think about it the more I think stamblades will have a much harder time against sorcs in 1.7.

It does come down to the player but outside of the empress on Chilrend, most of the Vet 14 Sorcs actually bolt escape from me lol. Including the ones on Azura's Star, my home campaign. A good rotation of diverse skills make the difference. Not the damage itself. I run fear, cripple & flying blade on my rotations. Makes it very difficult for a sorc to escape hence the need to bolt.

Thus why I run purge. I may bolt escape once or twice from an ambusher but that is usually just to create distance to release a procced frag when I see their arms raise. When a NB is forced to rely on his gap closer he is most vulnerable against a timed projectile. Few sorcs I see or play against have that timing down.

ToRelax

Derra wrote: »

I´ve always had infinite resources since 1.3 hit live servers as a magica build.

The only thing softcaps promote are builds that try to reach ALL THE SOFTCAPS which eventually has to happen if the game is about gear progression.

The problem is not that players can reach the regen values most decent players have now in PvP, but just how easily they reach them now.
In 1.5, we invested heavily into regen and cost reduction in order to sustain our fights, now I dropped vampire and seducer and still have a much harder time running out of magicka than before.
What that does is also give me unreal stamina sustain, better defense, more damage.
1.6 just largely eliminated all my weaknesses. The one ramaining is that I have a hard time fighting equally optimized builds. Wich leads to endless fights much easier than in 1.5.

Ezareth wrote: »

LatinLegacy wrote: »

I welcome these changes. My ambush nightblade will have fun tearing scrub sorcs a new one .

I can't think of the ambush NB I've ever run from. Wait for little animation, release crystal frag, mop up the rest. Something about Ambush has always made me feel in control when I'm on my sorc.....and that's probably why I almost never slot it on my NB.

The more I think about it the more I think stamblades will have a much harder time against sorcs in 1.7.

Critical Charge is even better actually, at least if they don't block (and they rarely do).
I let them come in range, then release a meteor and fragments on them when they reach me.

Domander

Eejit1331 wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

TheLaw wrote: »

Time to drop my sorc as main, NB time!

Why? because you wont be able to bolt escape 10 times in a row?

1) stamina build is the worst in the game. Not viable.
2) critical surge nerfed so hard that it's laughable. Sap Essence is God mode compared to this.
3) not close up magicka melee attack like concealed weapon so we are almost forced to stay range.
4) no good non - reflect ability like concealed weapon.
5) we fight at range, but get gap closed so easily with no way to create separation.
6) using bolt escape once or twice waste a huge amount of magicka which only provides a larger amount of damage taken from crit surge.
6) no single spammed range ability like funnel health to proc crystal frag. (most similar would be mages wrath which has a base of 7 damage and funnel health has a base of close to 20, so we are forced to use crushing shock, so we can't us DW for the extra spell damage like NB.
7) no viable self heal.
8) towards the bottom on pve dps so it's hard to get groups. I use my stamina temp for pve and now I'll have to use my OP NB with my very OP cloak and very OP fear since my non damaging bolt escape wasn't allowing NB to two shot me.

Thank God I have multiple toons, but I am furious for the people that do not and they rely on their sorc as their main due to a bunch of cry babies yelling nerf. I can deal with all the degenerates yelling nerf, but for ZIP to fold like they did and completely dismantle a class is just a huge red flag of their incompetent knowledge of their game play. Shame on ZOS for giving in to peer pressure. Now the public knows how weak they are and they will be consistently manipulated by the public.

Only thing worse than all the nerfs is my auto spell check on my android phone. I don't have time to go back and correct the errors, but yeah, sorc is total trash now. Also, if your going to ruin an ability as bad as they are going to, then just replace it with something else as apposed to having another ability in the sorc tree that is compete garbage.

The only point that I'd consider somewhat valid is number 8. Sorc is still a bit behind in pve dps, however as a magicka sorc everything is ranged so there is that advantage.

pjwb16_ESO

Domander wrote: »

Eejit1331 wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

TheLaw wrote: »

Time to drop my sorc as main, NB time!

Why? because you wont be able to bolt escape 10 times in a row?

1) stamina build is the worst in the game. Not viable.
2) critical surge nerfed so hard that it's laughable. Sap Essence is God mode compared to this.
3) not close up magicka melee attack like concealed weapon so we are almost forced to stay range.
4) no good non - reflect ability like concealed weapon.
5) we fight at range, but get gap closed so easily with no way to create separation.
6) using bolt escape once or twice waste a huge amount of magicka which only provides a larger amount of damage taken from crit surge.
6) no single spammed range ability like funnel health to proc crystal frag. (most similar would be mages wrath which has a base of 7 damage and funnel health has a base of close to 20, so we are forced to use crushing shock, so we can't us DW for the extra spell damage like NB.
7) no viable self heal.
8) towards the bottom on pve dps so it's hard to get groups. I use my stamina temp for pve and now I'll have to use my OP NB with my very OP cloak and very OP fear since my non damaging bolt escape wasn't allowing NB to two shot me.

Thank God I have multiple toons, but I am furious for the people that do not and they rely on their sorc as their main due to a bunch of cry babies yelling nerf. I can deal with all the degenerates yelling nerf, but for ZIP to fold like they did and completely dismantle a class is just a huge red flag of their incompetent knowledge of their game play. Shame on ZOS for giving in to peer pressure. Now the public knows how weak they are and they will be consistently manipulated by the public.

Only thing worse than all the nerfs is my auto spell check on my android phone. I don't have time to go back and correct the errors, but yeah, sorc is total trash now. Also, if your going to ruin an ability as bad as they are going to, then just replace it with something else as apposed to having another ability in the sorc tree that is compete garbage.

The only point that I'd consider somewhat valid is number 8. Sorc is still a bit behind in pve dps, however as a magicka sorc everything is ranged so there is that advantage.

+ 25k dps a s sorc on manticora during the first minute or two? deends on how fast overload stays on

Turelus

This will make both PVE and PVP interesting and bring more reliance on player skills over game skills/mechanics. I see these as only good changes (though I will no doubt rage while getting used to them).

cozmon3c_ESO

Ok so after reading half of these posts and having a week to think about this, for sorc anyway. Its going to force sorcs into a more hybrid type build. If you go full stamina you will have only 1-2 bolt escapes one after the other effectively not getting out of range of charges making you have to put enough magicka to do atleast 3 bolt escapes so you can have an oh *** escape.

If your magicka you will have to utilized dodge roll more coupled with bolt escapes effectively making you put points into stamina and alternating between bolts and dodge rolls if you want to be the most efficient with your stats. In turn bringing down your damage a bit. Oh and it may be Magicka sorcs using dark deal to get stamina back just to dodge roll more.

Dodge bolts are a great combination, but eat at both stat pools.

Both will have to use Boundless storm as well just to keep mobility up. And if the time to kill is really decreased enough maybe the clanfear desummon heal will actually be a worth while burst heal (dont have high hopes though).

Well just rambling at this point, i guess ill just have to do the whole try everything again and get all new v16 treadmill again even though i spent millions trying to get gear for Stam sorc that works, kinda works for stam sorc i mean.

TheElementalPlatypus

I thought this meme was priceless when I made it.
Enjoy

via Imgflip Meme Maker

Master_Kas

TheElementalPlatypus wrote: »

I thought this meme was priceless when I made it.
Enjoy

via Imgflip Meme Maker

Lol so true

Snowgoons

Any skill that allows people to run away like a little wimp should just be removed from the game, stealth and hiding too, you should see people on a hill and rush into them for battle like vikings or some ***.

Also, If there is a 1v1 battle, let the 1v1 battle happen, have some damn class and honor.

The amount of people interrupting 1v1's, and hiding, and stealthing, and bolt escaping, and rolling, like I thought we were supposed to be doing some *** battle over scrolls and *** here?

olsborg

the BoltEscape nerf will make streak more or less useless to me, i use it mostly offencively in 1vX as direct dmg spell, the only one for my class.

50% stacking is just too much.

BrightnessSyl

It sucks. Or gracefully worded "It's garbage"

With love ~Pinky

Yolokin_Swagonborn

olsborg wrote: »

the BoltEscape nerf will make streak more or less useless to me, i use it mostly offencively in 1vX as direct dmg spell, the only one for my class.

50% stacking is just too much.

If they are going to punish spamming the skill that much, they need to reduce the cooldown time or come up with another mechanic.

Make the cooldown 1.5 seconds. Would still prevent people from spam casting and it would encourage actual kiting which is a fun mechanic.

Failing that, make heavy attacks (or melee attacks) remove the cooldown. This way the skill can not be spammed with out a huge penalty but its still worth slotting for someone who uses it carefully. Four seconds is way too long if its going to have a stacking 50% cooldown.


The problem is when you re-nerf something 5 times in a row, you need to re-think your original nerfs. the magicka regen penalty, the other more subtle changes. Nerfs shouldn't stack.

Bashev

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

The problem is when you re-nerf something 5 times in a row, you need to re-think your original nerfs. the magicka regen penalty, the other more subtle changes. Nerfs shouldn't stack.

Magicka regen penalty was removed.

Maulkin

Bashev wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

The problem is when you re-nerf something 5 times in a row, you need to re-think your original nerfs. the magicka regen penalty, the other more subtle changes. Nerfs shouldn't stack.

Magicka regen penalty was removed.

True. Though the magicka regen penalty was applying only when you were out of combat. Which in Cyrodiil is practically never, thanks to ZOS. So it was the least crucial one.

With Bolt's cost increase stacking, I'll be campaigning for the reversal of these nerfs/features:

1. No Bolt with Scroll. If stamina builds can sprint 10 times faster and magicka NBs can get speed from cloak while holding scroll, I don't see why Sorcs shouldn't be able to Bolt with the scroll a few times? Especially as it will cost a ridiculous amount
2. Root and silence on charges. THE most annoying game mechanic of 1.6

Septimus_Magna

The BE nerf is needed, no doubt about that, but it shouldnt become totally useless because even with the current BE it still can be hard to survive as a sorc during fights, especially with the offensive morph Streak.

I think the cost increase on BE should be removed after landing an attack, same goes for dodge roll. This prevent people from spamming it mindless to get away but still would make it useful in actual fights. 1 or 2 BE's wont take you far so I think every sorc will agree that you need at least 3-5 BE's in a row to change position effectively.

LegendaryMage

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

The BE nerf is needed, no doubt about that, but it shouldnt become totally useless because even with the current BE it still can be hard to survive as a sorc during fights, especially with the offensive morph Streak.

I think the cost increase on BE should be removed after landing an attack, same goes for dodge roll. This prevent people from spamming it mindless to get away but still would make it useful in actual fights. 1 or 2 BE's wont take you far so I think every sorc will agree that you need at least 3-5 BE's in a row to change position effectively.

Streak is an offensive ability, I mainly use it for fighting and not running. I would really like to see it buffed and such penalties removed or softened if you fulfill whatever condition on the tooltip. In fact, I don't see a single reason why streak shouldn't provide soft cc as it once did, go through block and even do a bit more damage. Make it a viable offensive ability. Not all sorcs want to run from fights.

All classes have abilities that go through block, but only sorcerers have none that are instant and reliable (rune prison does not count as no one in their right mind would use this in a competitive fight).

Yuke

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

The BE nerf is needed, no doubt about that, but it shouldnt become totally useless because even with the current BE it still can be hard to survive as a sorc during fights, especially with the offensive morph Streak.

I think the cost increase on BE should be removed after landing an attack, same goes for dodge roll. This prevent people from spamming it mindless to get away but still would make it useful in actual fights. 1 or 2 BE's wont take you far so I think every sorc will agree that you need at least 3-5 BE's in a row to change position effectively.

Please stop making sense! Thats not supported by the Zenimax-Devs!

Rakshat

I personally prefer using streak to the other morph and use it offensively, but:

'Escaping is a viable tactic when you get in a tough situation' - one of the hints from the loading screens.
Have you noticed that bolt escape is actually called 'Bolt ESCAPE'??? If people are given a tool to escape, of course they're gonna use it.

I've faced sorcs that bolt away mid fight as many times as anyone else, and it never really bothered me. Those who run away from a fight once they realize they can't win aren't worth my time anyway.

Maulkin

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

The BE nerf is needed, no doubt about that, but it shouldnt become totally useless because even with the current BE it still can be hard to survive as a sorc during fights, especially with the offensive morph Streak.

I think the cost increase on BE should be removed after landing an attack, same goes for dodge roll. This prevent people from spamming it mindless to get away but still would make it useful in actual fights. 1 or 2 BE's wont take you far so I think every sorc will agree that you need at least 3-5 BE's in a row to change position effectively.

That's actually a great idea

Quantine

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

The BE nerf is needed, no doubt about that, but it shouldnt become totally useless because even with the current BE it still can be hard to survive as a sorc during fights, especially with the offensive morph Streak.

I think the cost increase on BE should be removed after landing an attack, same goes for dodge roll. This prevent people from spamming it mindless to get away but still would make it useful in actual fights. 1 or 2 BE's wont take you far so I think every sorc will agree that you need at least 3-5 BE's in a row to change position effectively.

I like it too, needs more /quotes

Snowgoons

olsborg wrote: »

the BoltEscape nerf will make streak more or less useless to me, i use it mostly offencively in 1vX as direct dmg spell, the only one for my class.

50% stacking is just too much.

aww you might have to use another skill 1vX, stay and fight, or think before assuming you are going to get away, aww i found this so cute.

Snowgoons

double aww post

WarrioroftheWind_ESO

If all the nitpickers here were working at animal rescues the domestic flea would be on the verge of extinction.

To give some insight on why the current mechanics and security blanket 'hardcore' pvpers treat it as can't continue as it is: I had decided to jump into Haderus yesterday to try some pvp on an alt of mine I'd just gotten to v1. I saw combat going on at Sejanus, so I go there and I see a few EP milling around. I notice 2 AD players just kind of standing there and I was wondering if this was a duel of some kind, so on reflex I started attacking them. One of them was a prominent sorc. My toon was a DK specially made for support healing, so I didn't have any DPS abilities slotted. Someone else however landed a snipe that took the sorc down to practically almost dead, and other EP launched attack after attack.

shield. shield. shield. BE. shield. shield. shield. BE. Shield. BE. Proc frags, proc fracs, and a minute later 6 EP and 2 porch guards were dead, including myself. I said eff this and just logged for the night. Same thing a few days ago when I was on my main and the exact same prick ganker kept killing me between Sejanus and Alessia bridge, and both times I was dead before I'd even seen the attacks landing, and my recap showed 5 attacks from one guy before the animation of me falling off my mount had even finished. I like a good fight as much as anyone, but that isn't 'skill' that's just utterly broken. I know ESO combat and ES combat in general bills itself on 'no cooldowns' but there has to be some drawback, some peril faced in combat. Even in Skyrim at level 80 with armor all tricked out to the gills I'd still run into an enemy occasionally that would deal so much damage I'd go the ***!?

The vibe I'm getting with such intense backlash from a relatively small pool of players makes me think of this old episode of ST:TOS where all the Greek gods faded away because no one worshiped them and the last remaining one demanded the crew worship him so he could keep his power. That's the impression I'm getting. Some of these players are so afraid of being reduced to mortals they'd rather keep things the way they are than understand it from a wider view. I'm sorry if you like your 206 unbroken kill streak so much, but this Howard Hughes Spruce Goose made of *** isn't going to fly.