Bolt Escape / Dodge / Blocking / Shields Nerf

Kupoking · July 2015

Would have rather seen a 25-30 percent dmg redux instead so that the dmg you deal sticks and isnt washed away immediately by tons of heals.

Shield nerf is going to prevent someone stacking shield over its own hp value and will make it harder to 1vX. In a 1v1, no big changes. Heck I was able to get a 37k shield on my templar with only blazing shield, resto staff bubble and 33k hp. Imagine now with whitestrake

Collateral blazing shield damage nerf sucks a lot as it was a nice ability for true pvp tanks to go toe to toe vs multiple enemies while surviving and keeping pressure on them.

One shot willies nb wont be able to do as well as before or will have to sacrifice much more to get enough dmg to do so.

Cloak nb abilities will have the upper hand compared to roll dodgers and streakers now.

Armor and dodge increasing abilities will be more used.

Heal overtime will be more cost effective due to hp/damage comparison now.

Ezareth · July 2015

Master_Kas wrote: »

]
Hm yes I see now what you mean.
We'll see what happens since knowing ZOS they always break something with their patches.

Overall I still think people who aren't very good will run out of resources spamming roll (like I've seen alot doing these days)

Also keep in mind that there is no penalty with cost increase/no mana regen while stacking shields. Even with the 35% nerf to shields, (15% to 50%) sorcs will have the best defensive mechanism in that update.

Personally I think sorcs with shieldstacking and magicka NBs permacloaking will be the topdogs in that update. But I can be wrong since sorcs cannot streak as much. Only time will tell.

The streak/BE nerf was stupid though in My opinion .

Typing this on my phone at Starbucks so my points must be brief and to the point.

Damage shield reduction from 85% to 50% is a 41% nerf.
Damage reduction from 80% to 50% is a 37.5% nerf.
Damage shields actually became even weaker by these changes.
Health became even more powerful since it wasn't nerfed and passive defenses were made even more powerful (spell ress and armor). Coincidentally light armor sorcs have the lowest resistances in the game and have no way to heal themselves. Healing ward healing was just nerfed to heal for 37% of what it heals for today. Crit surge was nerfed to heal for 39% of what it use to when speaking relative to your hit points.

The only active defenses I can think of in the game not nerfed were cloak, blur, and evasion.

Now when thinking about this I realize a Stamina NB will have a harder time killing my sorc as he will be unable to dodge roll my overload continuously and his heal nerfs will match my damage nerfs but a magicka NB will have a much easier time fighting my sorc since cloak completely counters all my direct damage and it has a cost of zero for a decent NB build.

Stam NBs easily have the best mobility after this patch to the point that no one will be able to chase a sprinting Bow NB down as a sorc will be Oom by the 6th or 7th bolt. I really hate Bow NBs....

Soris · July 2015

DDuke wrote: »

Sure, you probably won't be able to tank 10 people while maintaining infinite CC immunity & 90% mitigation anymore, but you'll still be able to tank for long periods of time (especially with potions, siphoning attacks or helping hands passive).

Potions? Puhahaha. Dude don't be ridiculous. Only newcomers believe that.
Every single thing in your quote is untrue
Come on...

Manoekin · July 2015

houimetub17_ESO wrote: »

Would have rather seen a 25-30 percent dmg redux instead so that the dmg you deal sticks and isnt washed away immediately by tons of heals.

Shield nerf is going to prevent someone stacking shield over its own hp value and will make it harder to 1vX. In a 1v1, no big changes. Heck I was able to get a 37k shield on my templar with only blazing shield, resto staff bubble and 33k hp. Imagine now with whitestrake

Collateral blazing shield damage nerf sucks a lot as it was a nice ability for true pvp tanks to go toe to toe vs multiple enemies while surviving and keeping pressure on them.

One shot willies nb wont be able to do as well as before or will have to sacrifice much more to get enough dmg to do so.

Cloak nb abilities will have the upper hand compared to roll dodgers and streakers now.

Armor and dodge increasing abilities will be more used.

Heal overtime will be more cost effective due to hp/damage comparison now.

healing got nerfed too. Read the thread.

DDuke · July 2015

Soris wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Sure, you probably won't be able to tank 10 people while maintaining infinite CC immunity & 90% mitigation anymore, but you'll still be able to tank for long periods of time (especially with potions, siphoning attacks or helping hands passive).

Potions? Puhahaha. Dude don't be ridiculous. Only newcomers believe that.
Every single thing in your quote is untrue
Come on...

Next time I see one of these permablocker scumbags people I'll record a video, just for you

Also, helping hands passive with 30-40k stamina equals to 1000-1500 stam regen if you use an Earthen Heart ability every 5 seconds (fairly realistic).

Yolokin_Swagonborn · July 2015

Ok guys I have listened to the feedback on my "Bolt escape cooldown reset" suggestions and made a few changes.

The main benefits of using (the base skill) bolt escape are:
1. Maintaining superior positioning on the battlefield
2. Kiting an enemy
3. Being able to completely disengage from a fight /tranverse long distances quickly

Most of these nerfs are stemming from the application of benefit 3, i.e spamming the skill. However, applications 1 and 2 are critical to the sorcerer class due to the lack of self heals and the light armor situation. The current/proposed nerfs though intended to address #3, greatly reduce the effectiveness of 1 and 2 as well and harm the mobility of the class overall considering the other aforementioned class drawbacks.

The goal of this post is to suggest a compromise to ZOS that maintains a Sorc's ability to perform 1 and 2, while still having a mana penalty for using the skill for application 3.

Bolt Escape: (base skill and all morphs) Causing damage (streak) or stunning an opponent will remove the 4s cooldown timer.

Alternatively you could have any light attack also reset the time (for kiting) but the physical option is better for all sorcs.

Rationale: This will allow the skill to punish those who spam it but reward those who actually intend to stay and fight. Kiting an enemy (not completely disengaging) is an important and fun class strength for the sorcerer and this change would preserve it. Any decent opponent with a speed buff or a gap closer would have plenty of time to close the distance after CC breaking.

Extra Rationale for the necessity of the "Streak through damage" addition for streak. While Ball of Lighting is good for Kiting, Streak is a melee ability by design (due to damage cause when you streak through someone) and as such is designed for sorcerers who are in the very thick of the fight against classes much better suited for melee combat.

Stamina Sorcs Need a cheaper way to use Bolt Escape (offensively)
I know that stamina sorcs (and PvE sorc tanks) are a very low percentage of players but there is a reason for that. Eric spoke about increases options for stam sorcs and this would be extremely helpful and would synergize well with other melee abilities. Bolt escape is already prohibitively expensive for stam sorcs, being able to reset the timer encourages sorcs to stay in the fight and lets the class benefits of mobility and positioning work for all sorcerers.

Joy_Division · July 2015

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Are all the people claiming to roll a Nightblade for 1.7 the same people who were all going to roll a Templar for 1.6?

No. I rolled a Nightblade when 1.6 came out when that class, along with the sorcerer, entered into a higher tier than the DK and Templar. It just so happens that my NB will be max level when 1.7 comes out when sorcs will drop from that tier since they can no longer stack everything into magicka and spell damage.

Wreuntzylla · July 2015

A game where healing washes away damage is very important to both the average player's fun factor and organized game play.

So are heal debuffs, proper use of cc and damage over time effects.

I expect the price of any armor set with a heal debuff greater than defile, or that stacks with defile, to exponentially increase in price.

Soulac · July 2015

They said something about buffing melee dmg, so i think of like 5-10% (?), also i will get some more CP to get more dmg until the next Patch.
Overall i don´t think my current DMG will change..
Anyway I will lose Whitestrake and the ability to dodge whenever i please since dodge is barely relyable in 1vX - meaning i will nearly lose all of my defense.
I stopped counting how many times i get hit by charges, melee stamina attacks like WB or Surprise Attacks etc. in midroll.. just annoying.
Not saying the change wasn´t needed, but if i spend so "much" Stamina I want it to work correctly.

But I´m looking forward to the whole patch notes since Im thinking of changing my build instead of running my currently one.

I feel sorry for all these DKs and Templar running S&B.. no escape mechanics and standing mid fight every time, but can barely defend themselves.. gg. Blocking in the next patch is like giving your enemy time to recover.
Streak nerf.. hm.. not sure about it but it wasn´t needed. Gap Closer as counter, easy as that.

Sooo what about we all wait since it wasn´t everything? :P

@LegendaryMage
I dare you to run NB. You will find ya sorc build

Soris · July 2015

DDuke wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Sure, you probably won't be able to tank 10 people while maintaining infinite CC immunity & 90% mitigation anymore, but you'll still be able to tank for long periods of time (especially with potions, siphoning attacks or helping hands passive).

Potions? Puhahaha. Dude don't be ridiculous. Only newcomers believe that.
Every single thing in your quote is untrue
Come on...

Next time I see one of these permablocker scumbags people I'll record a video, just for you

Also, helping hands passive with 30-40k stamina equals to 1000-1500 stam regen if you use an Earthen Heart ability every 5 seconds (fairly realistic).

Man.. You clearly know nothing other than firing arrows from stealth sorry.
I will quote this again,

DDuke wrote: »

Sure, you probably won't be able to tank 10 people while maintaining infinite CC immunity & 90% mitigation anymore, but you'll still be able to tank for long periods of time (especially with potions, siphoning attacks or helping hands passive).

How can these be even possible??

Blocking with 50% cost reductions(bracing+fortress) currently cost you 1050 stamina for EACH hit. By saying each hits, it means even light attacks, caltrops ticks etc all counts in. And things like biting jabs counts as 4 hits for each cast which means 4k stamina to block a full duration jabs.
Even with 40k stamina(and I wonder how you get that)you have to nonstop spam Earthen Hearth skills only to neutralize stamina loss in any given 1vX fight. It is no way near practical. Any "perma blocker" who is not a target dummy have not that much stamina and regen. 10k - 20k is what you will have to have some tankiness without losing other stats which 90% of dks currently. So stamina return will be even less.
It's like saying "50k health templars will rekt everyone with blazing shield" which was also your hype before 1.6 released.
Be real please. These are the facts. Add them to your dreams.

If you can't kill a normal block build then it's your own problem. If you mean dedicated tanks, why do you bother with them in first place and alone? Why do they even exists I wonder. They are not in a place we can discuss about or do balance through them.

TheBucket · July 2015

On top of all this. I heard Detect potions wont see cloaked NB's......It's a great day to be a magic NB!!!

Cinbri · July 2015

Eric said that they changed some skills to make blocking easy with block nerf, so just wait.

Ezareth · July 2015

One point I'd like to note unrelated to PvP that I noticed while levelling my NB. Normal movement speeds in this game while doing PvE are terribly boring. I enjoyed being able to constantly sprint on my NB everywhere (mounting + dismounting just take too long when you need to travel short distances). The same was true on my Sorc when I unlocked Bolt Escape. These PvP changes just make Sorc that much less fun to play across the board. I really wish they'd make the bolt escape (and dodge roll) nerf only occur in Cyrodiil to save the carebear players the pain.

Soulac wrote: »

They said something about buffing melee dmg, so i think of like 5-10% (?), also i will get some more CP to get more dmg until the next Patch.
Overall i don´t think my current DMG will change..
Anyway I will lose Whitestrake and the ability to dodge whenever i please since dodge is barely relyable in 1vX - meaning i will nearly lose all of my defense.
I stopped counting how many times i get hit by charges, melee stamina attacks like WB or Surprise Attacks etc. in midroll.. just annoying.
Not saying the change wasn´t needed, but if i spend so "much" Stamina I want it to work correctly.

But I´m looking forward to the whole patch notes since Im thinking of changing my build instead of running my currently one.

I feel sorry for all these DKs and Templar running S&B.. no escape mechanics and standing mid fight every time, but can barely defend themselves.. gg. Blocking in the next patch is like giving your enemy time to recover.
Streak nerf.. hm.. not sure about it but it wasn´t needed. Gap Closer as counter, easy as that.

Sooo what about we all wait since it wasn´t everything? :P

@LegendaryMage
I dare you to run NB. You will find ya sorc build

I only block on my sorc reactively. You learn when to recognize when you must block and when you should let an attack hit you. I think these block "spammers" will just have to learn to play similarly. Additionally, truly skilled players will learn to block in between regen ticks so they can still at least partially hold block.

Soris · July 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

I only block on my sorc reactively. You learn when to recognize when you must block and when you should let an attack hit you. I think these block "spammers" will just have to learn to play similarly. Additionally, truly skilled players will learn to block in between regen ticks so they can still at least partially hold block.

Im not a block spammer myself, I do block sometimes and sometimes I let my blazing shield do the work for me just like you said for yourself. But you have to understand and many others, that caster Sorcerer play style is very different than a melee dk/templar. There are times you HAVE TO hold block more than 2 seconds just like sorcereres have to cast multiple bolt escapes repeatedly.

They have to add serious things to that patch notes to balance this loss that's for sure. I'm hoping all these 3 nerfs block/dodge and bolt equalised at 50% That would be much more fair.

DDuke · July 2015

Soris wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Sure, you probably won't be able to tank 10 people while maintaining infinite CC immunity & 90% mitigation anymore, but you'll still be able to tank for long periods of time (especially with potions, siphoning attacks or helping hands passive).

Potions? Puhahaha. Dude don't be ridiculous. Only newcomers believe that.
Every single thing in your quote is untrue
Come on...

Next time I see one of these permablocker scumbags people I'll record a video, just for you

Also, helping hands passive with 30-40k stamina equals to 1000-1500 stam regen if you use an Earthen Heart ability every 5 seconds (fairly realistic).

Man.. You clearly know nothing other than firing arrows from stealth sorry.
I will quote this again,

DDuke wrote: »

Sure, you probably won't be able to tank 10 people while maintaining infinite CC immunity & 90% mitigation anymore, but you'll still be able to tank for long periods of time (especially with potions, siphoning attacks or helping hands passive).

How can these be even possible??

Blocking with 50% cost reductions(bracing+fortress) currently cost you 1050 stamina for EACH hit. By saying each hits, it means even light attacks, caltrops ticks etc all counts in. And things like biting jabs counts as 4 hits for each cast which means 4k stamina to block a full duration jabs.
Even with 40k stamina(and I wonder how you get that)you have to nonstop spam Earthen Hearth skills only to neutralize stamina loss in any given 1vX fight. It is no way near practical. Any "perma blocker" who is not a target dummy have not that much stamina and regen. 10k - 20k is what you will have to have some tankiness without losing other stats which 90% of dks currently. So stamina return will be even less.
It's like saying "50k health templars will rekt everyone with blazing shield" which was also your hype before 1.6 released.
Be real please. These are the facts. Add them to your dreams.

If you can't kill a normal block build then it's your own problem. If you mean dedicated tanks, why do you bother with them in first place and alone? Why do they even exists I wonder. They are not in a place we can discuss about or do balance through them.

Whisper me in game, I can give you name of one of these I've been seeing a lot in Haderus. Can't do it here due to naming&shaming.

Watched him tank 4 jesus beams & several other people for minutes. When he finally died, he was still blocking.

I even fought the same person at a resource once. He was tanking every single NPC at the resource (I kid you not) and my WW damage (transformed into WW to fear+howl him for instagib) with infinite CC immunity for well over a minute (still blocking when he died).

Not an emperor by the way.

And I've seen similar play by many others, but this one person just pops up every time I think about permablockers ^^

Also, 50k health+Blazing Shield can still be very effective, that fact hasn't changed at all (and would be even stronger if they hadn't decided to reduce dmg shield strengths by 15%, thanks to feedback of intelligent players).

People just aren't experimenting enough, good example is stamina DKs.

Everyone hypes stamina NBs, but truth is that stamina DK has just as much, if not more potential (rationale: only class with access to Minor Brutality buff, only class with Physical dmg ultimate meaning +25% dmg from Mighty, Helping Hands etc).

Soris · July 2015

DDuke wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Sure, you probably won't be able to tank 10 people while maintaining infinite CC immunity & 90% mitigation anymore, but you'll still be able to tank for long periods of time (especially with potions, siphoning attacks or helping hands passive).

Potions? Puhahaha. Dude don't be ridiculous. Only newcomers believe that.
Every single thing in your quote is untrue
Come on...

Next time I see one of these permablocker scumbags people I'll record a video, just for you

Also, helping hands passive with 30-40k stamina equals to 1000-1500 stam regen if you use an Earthen Heart ability every 5 seconds (fairly realistic).

Man.. You clearly know nothing other than firing arrows from stealth sorry.
I will quote this again,

DDuke wrote: »

Sure, you probably won't be able to tank 10 people while maintaining infinite CC immunity & 90% mitigation anymore, but you'll still be able to tank for long periods of time (especially with potions, siphoning attacks or helping hands passive).

How can these be even possible??

Blocking with 50% cost reductions(bracing+fortress) currently cost you 1050 stamina for EACH hit. By saying each hits, it means even light attacks, caltrops ticks etc all counts in. And things like biting jabs counts as 4 hits for each cast which means 4k stamina to block a full duration jabs.
Even with 40k stamina(and I wonder how you get that)you have to nonstop spam Earthen Hearth skills only to neutralize stamina loss in any given 1vX fight. It is no way near practical. Any "perma blocker" who is not a target dummy have not that much stamina and regen. 10k - 20k is what you will have to have some tankiness without losing other stats which 90% of dks currently. So stamina return will be even less.
It's like saying "50k health templars will rekt everyone with blazing shield" which was also your hype before 1.6 released.
Be real please. These are the facts. Add them to your dreams.

If you can't kill a normal block build then it's your own problem. If you mean dedicated tanks, why do you bother with them in first place and alone? Why do they even exists I wonder. They are not in a place we can discuss about or do balance through them.

Whisper me in game, I can give you name of one of these I've been seeing a lot in Haderus. Can't do it here due to naming&shaming.

Watched him tank 4 jesus beams & several other people for minutes. When he finally died, he was still blocking.

I even fought the same person at a resource once. He was tanking every single NPC at the resource (I kid you not) and my WW damage (transformed into WW to fear+howl him for instagib) with infinite CC immunity for well over a minute (still blocking when he died).

Not an emperor by the way.

And I've seen similar play by many others, but this one person just pops up every time I think about permablockers ^^

Also, 50k health+Blazing Shield can still be very effective, that fact hasn't changed at all (and would be even stronger if they hadn't decided to reduce dmg shield strengths by 15%, thanks to feedback of intelligent players).

People just aren't experimenting enough, good example is stamina DKs.

Everyone hypes stamina NBs, but truth is that stamina DK has just as much, if not more potential (rationale: only class with access to Minor Brutality buff, only class with Physical dmg ultimate meaning +25% dmg from Mighty, Helping Hands etc).

Come on now. Don't compare regular block builds with extreme tank builds. You can not call nerfs to every single unique block builds just bcs of that one particular pve tank guy.
Did he even manage to drop you under 90% health? I highly doubt that. Once in every Feracious Leap maybe, but that's just that. And you are glass cannon.

DDuke · July 2015

Soris wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Sure, you probably won't be able to tank 10 people while maintaining infinite CC immunity & 90% mitigation anymore, but you'll still be able to tank for long periods of time (especially with potions, siphoning attacks or helping hands passive).

Potions? Puhahaha. Dude don't be ridiculous. Only newcomers believe that.
Every single thing in your quote is untrue
Come on...

Next time I see one of these permablocker scumbags people I'll record a video, just for you

Also, helping hands passive with 30-40k stamina equals to 1000-1500 stam regen if you use an Earthen Heart ability every 5 seconds (fairly realistic).

Man.. You clearly know nothing other than firing arrows from stealth sorry.
I will quote this again,

DDuke wrote: »

Sure, you probably won't be able to tank 10 people while maintaining infinite CC immunity & 90% mitigation anymore, but you'll still be able to tank for long periods of time (especially with potions, siphoning attacks or helping hands passive).

How can these be even possible??

Blocking with 50% cost reductions(bracing+fortress) currently cost you 1050 stamina for EACH hit. By saying each hits, it means even light attacks, caltrops ticks etc all counts in. And things like biting jabs counts as 4 hits for each cast which means 4k stamina to block a full duration jabs.
Even with 40k stamina(and I wonder how you get that)you have to nonstop spam Earthen Hearth skills only to neutralize stamina loss in any given 1vX fight. It is no way near practical. Any "perma blocker" who is not a target dummy have not that much stamina and regen. 10k - 20k is what you will have to have some tankiness without losing other stats which 90% of dks currently. So stamina return will be even less.
It's like saying "50k health templars will rekt everyone with blazing shield" which was also your hype before 1.6 released.
Be real please. These are the facts. Add them to your dreams.

If you can't kill a normal block build then it's your own problem. If you mean dedicated tanks, why do you bother with them in first place and alone? Why do they even exists I wonder. They are not in a place we can discuss about or do balance through them.

Whisper me in game, I can give you name of one of these I've been seeing a lot in Haderus. Can't do it here due to naming&shaming.

Watched him tank 4 jesus beams & several other people for minutes. When he finally died, he was still blocking.

I even fought the same person at a resource once. He was tanking every single NPC at the resource (I kid you not) and my WW damage (transformed into WW to fear+howl him for instagib) with infinite CC immunity for well over a minute (still blocking when he died).

Not an emperor by the way.

And I've seen similar play by many others, but this one person just pops up every time I think about permablockers ^^

Also, 50k health+Blazing Shield can still be very effective, that fact hasn't changed at all (and would be even stronger if they hadn't decided to reduce dmg shield strengths by 15%, thanks to feedback of intelligent players).

People just aren't experimenting enough, good example is stamina DKs.

Everyone hypes stamina NBs, but truth is that stamina DK has just as much, if not more potential (rationale: only class with access to Minor Brutality buff, only class with Physical dmg ultimate meaning +25% dmg from Mighty, Helping Hands etc).

Come on now. Don't compare regular block builds with extreme tank builds. You can not call nerfs to every single unique block builds just bcs of that one particular pve tank guy.
Did he even manage to drop you under 90% health? I highly doubt that. Once in every Feracious Leap maybe, but that's just that. And you are glass cannon.

I don't think any build should require so little skill (just holding right mouse button) and be unkillable unless greatly outnumbered.

Infinite resources is just a bad, bad idea (especially when said thing grants you infinite survivability as well) and dumbs down the gameplay, taking away the whole resource management aspect.

Also, you know very little about my build if you're calling me a glass cannon ^^

My Vigor actually heals over 50% more than your usual rollerblade's Vigor, and my DW/DW setup runs a 30k Barrier that heals me for 1k/second for 30 seconds.

This alone means I can take on multiple attackers and not get bursted down immediately (though that still happens sometimes) and I can outheal most damage dealt to me by a single person. Without even accounting the 25k health, this makes me the opposite of a glass cannon (in fact, your usual rollerblade running around with 19k health and maybe 8-9k Vigor would be closer to that description).

What I don't play is a sustain build, I don't have infinite resources because those make me puke in my mouth.

Sublime · July 2015

DDuke wrote: »

What I don't play is a sustain build, I don't have infinite resources because those make me puke in my mouth.

Out of curiousity: What's your Stamina Regeneration?

DDuke · July 2015

Sublime wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

What I don't play is a sustain build, I don't have infinite resources because those make me puke in my mouth.

Out of curiousity: What's your Stamina Regeneration?

1.3K. How is my stamina regen relevant to this topic at all?

My reply was to @Soris, who (mistakengly) called me a glass cannon.

Bashev · July 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

I only block on my sorc reactively. You learn when to recognize when you must block and when you should let an attack hit you. I think these block "spammers" will just have to learn to play similarly. Additionally, truly skilled players will learn to block in between regen ticks so they can still at least partially hold block.

You block reactively cause you have mobility with your sorc. Now with the new changes it will be interesting how all sorc will adapt. At least Sorcs still have nice range DPS while DKs should stay in the front line if they want to use their best DPS skills and without blocking it will be super difficult.

Soris · July 2015

Well last time I saw you, you were able to instagib my 30k health templar in a second from stealth. I often survive most of these gank attempts everyday. So I assumed you were glass cannon. But I think you still are, at least for cannon part, since you don't use regen build.
Vigor is stupidly good though. It heals more than my class heal and cost 1/3 of it. If we count vigor, then there is nothing such "glass cannon" So yeah anyways.

DDuke wrote: »

Also, 50k health+Blazing Shield can still be very effective, that fact hasn't changed at all (and would be even stronger if they hadn't decided to reduce dmg shield strengths by 15%, thanks to feedback of intelligent players).

This isn't good btw. I did try it in pts with 3200 CP. Maximum you can have is like 50k hp and 16k shield with so-so gear. I guess you can go up to 60k health with better gear and Cyro buffs. Also I did its smaller version in live server with 200 cp. Your other stats become terrible even with 3200 cp. And no need to mention nirn I guess.
It could be good in 1.7 when nirn fixed but..welp shield nerfs again..

Just found the screenshots from pts.

3200 CP - 5 Seducer - 2 Ashen - 2 Dwemer - all purple - jewelry might be warlocks or shadow walker for healthy traits, dont really remember - and food buff.

Erondil · July 2015

DDuke wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Sure, you probably won't be able to tank 10 people while maintaining infinite CC immunity & 90% mitigation anymore, but you'll still be able to tank for long periods of time (especially with potions, siphoning attacks or helping hands passive).

Potions? Puhahaha. Dude don't be ridiculous. Only newcomers believe that.
Every single thing in your quote is untrue
Come on...

Next time I see one of these permablocker scumbags people I'll record a video, just for you

Also, helping hands passive with 30-40k stamina equals to 1000-1500 stam regen if you use an Earthen Heart ability every 5 seconds (fairly realistic).

Man.. You clearly know nothing other than firing arrows from stealth sorry.
I will quote this again,

DDuke wrote: »

Sure, you probably won't be able to tank 10 people while maintaining infinite CC immunity & 90% mitigation anymore, but you'll still be able to tank for long periods of time (especially with potions, siphoning attacks or helping hands passive).

How can these be even possible??

Blocking with 50% cost reductions(bracing+fortress) currently cost you 1050 stamina for EACH hit. By saying each hits, it means even light attacks, caltrops ticks etc all counts in. And things like biting jabs counts as 4 hits for each cast which means 4k stamina to block a full duration jabs.
Even with 40k stamina(and I wonder how you get that)you have to nonstop spam Earthen Hearth skills only to neutralize stamina loss in any given 1vX fight. It is no way near practical. Any "perma blocker" who is not a target dummy have not that much stamina and regen. 10k - 20k is what you will have to have some tankiness without losing other stats which 90% of dks currently. So stamina return will be even less.
It's like saying "50k health templars will rekt everyone with blazing shield" which was also your hype before 1.6 released.
Be real please. These are the facts. Add them to your dreams.

If you can't kill a normal block build then it's your own problem. If you mean dedicated tanks, why do you bother with them in first place and alone? Why do they even exists I wonder. They are not in a place we can discuss about or do balance through them.

Whisper me in game, I can give you name of one of these I've been seeing a lot in Haderus. Can't do it here due to naming&shaming.

Watched him tank 4 jesus beams & several other people for minutes. When he finally died, he was still blocking.

I even fought the same person at a resource once. He was tanking every single NPC at the resource (I kid you not) and my WW damage (transformed into WW to fear+howl him for instagib) with infinite CC immunity for well over a minute (still blocking when he died).

Not an emperor by the way.

And I've seen similar play by many others, but this one person just pops up every time I think about permablockers ^^

Also, 50k health+Blazing Shield can still be very effective, that fact hasn't changed at all (and would be even stronger if they hadn't decided to reduce dmg shield strengths by 15%, thanks to feedback of intelligent players).

People just aren't experimenting enough, good example is stamina DKs.

Everyone hypes stamina NBs, but truth is that stamina DK has just as much, if not more potential (rationale: only class with access to Minor Brutality buff, only class with Physical dmg ultimate meaning +25% dmg from Mighty, Helping Hands etc).

Come on now. Don't compare regular block builds with extreme tank builds. You can not call nerfs to every single unique block builds just bcs of that one particular pve tank guy.
Did he even manage to drop you under 90% health? I highly doubt that. Once in every Feracious Leap maybe, but that's just that. And you are glass cannon.

I don't think any build should require so little skill (just holding right mouse button) and be unkillable unless greatly outnumbered.

Infinite resources is just a bad, bad idea (especially when said thing grants you infinite survivability as well) and dumbs down the gameplay, taking away the whole resource management aspect.

Also, you know very little about my build if you're calling me a glass cannon ^^

My Vigor actually heals over 50% more than your usual rollerblade's Vigor, and my DW/DW setup runs a 30k Barrier that heals me for 1k/second for 30 seconds.

This alone means I can take on multiple attackers and not get bursted down immediately (though that still happens sometimes) and I can outheal most damage dealt to me by a single person. Without even accounting the 25k health, this makes me the opposite of a glass cannon (in fact, your usual rollerblade running around with 19k health and maybe 8-9k Vigor would be closer to that description).

What I don't play is a sustain build, I don't have infinite resources because those make me puke in my mouth.

You're glasscanon because :
-You cant use nirn (or you would lose a lot of dmg)
-You are oos quite fast
Sure, heals that can scale on stamina/wep dmg heals you for a lot but thats the same for every glasscanon build since damages scale on the same stats than heals. Look at our duels for example, whoever won, it was barely more than 30 seconds fights.

Domander · July 2015

TheLaw wrote: »

Time to drop my sorc as main, NB time!

Why? because you wont be able to bolt escape 10 times in a row?

Tankqull · July 2015

Soris wrote: »

I just can't understand one thing. Heavy armor builds mostly tend to use 1h&s somewhere in their builds as main or secondary weapon. It has bonus to that and yet if you use your shield you will be screwed after couple blocks. This just don't make sense!

I'm hoping they will finally add some logic inside, reduce that amount to something 50% or 25% when wearing 5 heavy armor and reduce cost of blocking.

Or just make it equal as dodge and bolt treatment ffs. Cut regen for 50% I don't really mind but not 100%.

yes absolutly, make blocking an attack increasing the blockcost of the next attack by 33-50% this increasement stacks equally to dodge and BE. would be only fair i think.

[sarcasm off]

Bashev · July 2015

Tankqull wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

I just can't understand one thing. Heavy armor builds mostly tend to use 1h&s somewhere in their builds as main or secondary weapon. It has bonus to that and yet if you use your shield you will be screwed after couple blocks. This just don't make sense!

I'm hoping they will finally add some logic inside, reduce that amount to something 50% or 25% when wearing 5 heavy armor and reduce cost of blocking.

Or just make it equal as dodge and bolt treatment ffs. Cut regen for 50% I don't really mind but not 100%.

yes absolutly, make blocking an attack increasing the blockcost of the next attack by 33-50% this increasement stacks equally to dodge and BE. would be only fair i think.

[sarcasm off]

You are so bias. Everybody knows that you hate perma blockers cause you cannot curse, frag, execute them to death (5 seconds without blocking). But how often you rolldodge or block escape in a second. Maximum once. I block 5-6 attacks per seconds and in big fights 10-12. With all animation canceling each range attack comes with a light attack, even more there are skills like rapid strikes and Jabs which does several hits per second.

vichoi · July 2015

1

Master_Kas wrote: »

Lol. To the sorcs crying to give cloak same treatment as bolt :

Lets make some skill make you unable to bolt (like piercing mark does to cloak) and on top of that, so AoE damage stops you from bolting.

Overall good nerfs. Shieldstackers, permarollers and permablockers tears taste good.

And cloak will charge to dead by critical rush?
I'm fine with the BE nerf, but guys please argue with logic.every skill have it's counter, cloak have potion and Mage light, bolt have gap closers. If you cannot counter all classes by one build, doesn't mean they're OP. Most nerf there to help those bad or casual players.

Bashev · July 2015

vichoi wrote: »

1

Master_Kas wrote: »

Lol. To the sorcs crying to give cloak same treatment as bolt :

Lets make some skill make you unable to bolt (like piercing mark does to cloak) and on top of that, so AoE damage stops you from bolting.

Overall good nerfs. Shieldstackers, permarollers and permablockers tears taste good.

And cloak will charge to dead by critical rush?
I'm fine with the BE nerf, but guys please argue with logic.every skill have it's counter, cloak have potion and Mage light, bolt have gap closers. If you cannot counter all classes by one build, doesn't mean they're OP. Most nerf there to help those bad or casual players.

Thats the problem that potion wont counter cloak anymore in 1.7. Just after 1 day and all the cry in the forums and Devs will bring the potion back

Teargrants · July 2015

Bashev wrote: »

vichoi wrote: »

1

Master_Kas wrote: »

Lol. To the sorcs crying to give cloak same treatment as bolt :

Lets make some skill make you unable to bolt (like piercing mark does to cloak) and on top of that, so AoE damage stops you from bolting.

Overall good nerfs. Shieldstackers, permarollers and permablockers tears taste good.

And cloak will charge to dead by critical rush?
I'm fine with the BE nerf, but guys please argue with logic.every skill have it's counter, cloak have potion and Mage light, bolt have gap closers. If you cannot counter all classes by one build, doesn't mean they're OP. Most nerf there to help those bad or casual players.

Thats the problem that potion wont counter cloak anymore in 1.7. Just after 1 day and all the cry in the forums and Devs will bring the potion back

You seem to forget, the forums are inhabited primarily by NBs, it's their native habitat.

ToRelax · July 2015

Master_Kas wrote: »

Lol. To the sorcs crying to give cloak same treatment as bolt :

Lets make some skill make you unable to bolt (like piercing mark does to cloak) and on top of that, so AoE damage stops you from bolting.

Overall good nerfs. Shieldstackers, permarollers and permablockers tears taste good.

Like Piercing Mark?
So you would give Sorcs a skill that makes only them always Bolt Escape automatically with the target when it uses Bolt Escape - to stay in range?
And on top of that Cloak gets more expensive with every cast.
Sounds super fun, deal.

Sublime · July 2015

DDuke wrote: »

Sublime wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

What I don't play is a sustain build, I don't have infinite resources because those make me puke in my mouth.

Out of curiousity: What's your Stamina Regeneration?

1.3K. How is my stamina regen relevant to this topic at all?

My reply was to @Soris, who (mistakengly) called me a glass cannon.

It's not, I was just curious and thought I might ask.

Apart from that it helps me understanding the different types of glass-cannons.