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PvE Tanking Future. - DO NOT GET RID OF STAM REGEN WHILE BLOCKING IN PVE
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BuggeX✭✭✭✭✭
✭Oh come on! They're not disabling block or reduce its mitigation, they are just removing stamina regeneration while holding down RMB. You can still block shitloads of damage if you have a reasonable stamina pool, especially since the other regeneration abilities are going to be buffed! Yes, that includes direct stamina gained by DK passives or stamina regained by using spear shard synergy.
You still have pots to regain stamina immediately if in a bad situation. This change is not doomsday for tanking!
@BuggeX please stay civil, I did write nothing to justify that kind of aggression. As said in reply to your original post, in its current state, nirnhoned prevents most of these from being effective. Aside from fear, siege weaponry was the only really effective option against this build, which is exactly why almost every DK left in Cyrodiil uses it.
Or mby because we dont have range skills and are forced to use Blockcast to do somthing with our class skills?
Our Main Spells are under 8m range.
That whipe ignore doge is a bug and should be fixed allready, but well so is the 50% procing jesusbeam.
Nirnhorned will be fixed,#makemagickadkgreataigan
#givemeaexecute
#ineedheal
#betterhotfixgrindspots2 -
bertenburnyb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭well they have that pvp buff wich they change now to, with damgage done reduced in cyro and stuff
why dont they add the 'no stam regen while blocking' to that pvp (de)buff to, and leave pve blocking alone
LEAVE PVE BLOCKING ALONE *britneymemeHaze Ramoran Dunmer Dragonknight Tank/Dps – Smoked-Da-Herb Saxheel Templar Tank/Healer
Red Diamond, Protect us 'til the end (EU EP Thorn)0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Considering how ridiculously easy PvE in this game is, maybe this is a good change for PvE as well...
You don't even have to be a tank to "tank" Sanctum bosses in this game, you can just kite them around as stamina NB and the second troll boss can't even one shot a medium armour player with 20k health.
I tried soloing him, turned out he has too much health regen and the adds ** you up x)
Lastly, if you're worried about running out of stamina, just have a Templar throw some spears at you. Problem solved.
Oh, and swap stamina regen bonuses for +maximum stamina bonuses. If you're a DK, that'll make Helping Hands give you ridiculous amounts of sustain.1 -
Leandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
As a stamina NB, I have no ranged attacks. I have to use bow. I have exactly one gap closer. Instead of complaining about removal of an imbalanced build, why not petition to have chains work in Cyrodiil as they were intended?Oh come on! They're not disabling block or reduce its mitigation, they are just removing stamina regeneration while holding down RMB. You can still block shitloads of damage if you have a reasonable stamina pool, especially since the other regeneration abilities are going to be buffed! Yes, that includes direct stamina gained by DK passives or stamina regained by using spear shard synergy.
You still have pots to regain stamina immediately if in a bad situation. This change is not doomsday for tanking!
@BuggeX please stay civil, I did write nothing to justify that kind of aggression. As said in reply to your original post, in its current state, nirnhoned prevents most of these from being effective. Aside from fear, siege weaponry was the only really effective option against this build, which is exactly why almost every DK left in Cyrodiil uses it.
Or mby because we dont have range skills and are forced to use Blockcast to do somthing with our class skills?
Our Main Spells are under 8m range.
That whipe ignore doge is a bug and should be fixed allready, but well so is the 50% procing jesusbeam.
Nirnhorned will be fixed,0 -
hydrocynus✭✭✭✭✭Sithisvoid wrote: »You ppl know heavy attack regen magika and stamina right? So if a tank is running you out of magika and stamina it's only you that's to blame. I run a DK Destro/Resto and have NEVER been run out of mana. I'll stonefist the tank off his feet and smack him down. Yall need to step your game up. Oh and I've only been playing a few weeks on console.
I would love to see you heavy attacking the Manticore.My internet is invalid5 -
dlepi24✭✭✭✭Well, that was needed, currently tanks press block and suck all magicka and stamina in PVP from 10+ guys. Thats why DKs hated NBs fear so much and wanted it to be nerfed to make them even more powerful. Truth is that fear is only way to kill good tanks. Justice!
It's just people get upset that when 10+ people run up to a tank they get wiped by someone else in the back ground with a ballista. People get mad that they constantly get outplayed in cyrodiil. That's why I absolutely love my tank. I have 45k+ health and it just attracts all the bad kids. Whenever you see someone getting "killed" by 10+ people it's just human nature to try and get that easy kill. Don't be mad that you all got wiped by a ballista. Stop trying to zerg. The fact that you're complaining about a tank who can manage resources and slowly over time wear you down is pathetic. They have absolutely no burst damage. Tanks in PvP have to outplay their opponents and let you take our health down just so we can get a better heal. I have no problem if I'm on my tank getting beat on by a zerg and a nightblade finally gets the idea to fear me. I usually laugh when it happens but the problem is the majority of people aren't good at PvP. They don't know to fear you. They don't know to sit out of your talons and just shoot a bow at you. We don't have enough magicka to spam wings every half second if those 10+ people just stepped 10 feet away and shot a bow at us. Don't get mad that someone is better than you. You have the option to roll a tank, too.
As far as PvE goes - this is the dumbest addition yet.Edited by dlepi24 on July 3, 2015 12:55PM0 -
Sithisvoid✭✭✭✭✭hydrocynus wrote: »Sithisvoid wrote: »You ppl know heavy attack regen magika and stamina right? So if a tank is running you out of magika and stamina it's only you that's to blame. I run a DK Destro/Resto and have NEVER been run out of mana. I'll stonefist the tank off his feet and smack him down. Yall need to step your game up. Oh and I've only been playing a few weeks on console.
I would love to see you heavy attacking the Manticore.
Are you guys learning impaired or just incapable of reading plain English? I'M TALKING ABOUT PVP0 -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Are you learning impaired? Look at the title of the thread take your PvP talk out of hereSithisvoid wrote: »hydrocynus wrote: »Sithisvoid wrote: »You ppl know heavy attack regen magika and stamina right? So if a tank is running you out of magika and stamina it's only you that's to blame. I run a DK Destro/Resto and have NEVER been run out of mana. I'll stonefist the tank off his feet and smack him down. Yall need to step your game up. Oh and I've only been playing a few weeks on console.
I would love to see you heavy attacking the Manticore.
Are you guys learning impaired or just incapable of reading plain English? I'M TALKING ABOUT PVP#MOREORBS7 -
hydrocynus✭✭✭✭✭Sithisvoid wrote: »hydrocynus wrote: »Sithisvoid wrote: »You ppl know heavy attack regen magika and stamina right? So if a tank is running you out of magika and stamina it's only you that's to blame. I run a DK Destro/Resto and have NEVER been run out of mana. I'll stonefist the tank off his feet and smack him down. Yall need to step your game up. Oh and I've only been playing a few weeks on console.
I would love to see you heavy attacking the Manticore.
Are you guys learning impaired or just incapable of reading plain English? I'M TALKING ABOUT PVP
Ah 100% agree in PVP you can do that, however the heading of this thread would have gone unnoticed by the reading impaired i guess.
My internet is invalid2 -
Sithisvoid✭✭✭✭✭
Are you learning impaired? Look at the title of the thread take your PvP talk out of hereSithisvoid wrote: »hydrocynus wrote: »Sithisvoid wrote: »You ppl know heavy attack regen magika and stamina right? So if a tank is running you out of magika and stamina it's only you that's to blame. I run a DK Destro/Resto and have NEVER been run out of mana. I'll stonefist the tank off his feet and smack him down. Yall need to step your game up. Oh and I've only been playing a few weeks on console.
I would love to see you heavy attacking the Manticore.
Are you guys learning impaired or just incapable of reading plain English? I'M TALKING ABOUT PVP
Well since the nerf is being implemented BECAUSE of pvp crybabies I think i have a valid point. Sorry you simple ppl can't see that but honestly that's not MY problem. I blame your English teachers and reading comprehension. If that's not why this nerf exists plz, by all means enlighten me since you are a beacon of information. I'm waitingEdited by Sithisvoid on July 3, 2015 1:10PM0 -
BuggeX✭✭✭✭✭
✭
As a stamina NB, I have no ranged attacks. I have to use bow. I have exactly one gap closer. Instead of complaining about removal of an imbalanced build, why not petition to have chains work in Cyrodiil as they were intended?Oh come on! They're not disabling block or reduce its mitigation, they are just removing stamina regeneration while holding down RMB. You can still block shitloads of damage if you have a reasonable stamina pool, especially since the other regeneration abilities are going to be buffed! Yes, that includes direct stamina gained by DK passives or stamina regained by using spear shard synergy.
You still have pots to regain stamina immediately if in a bad situation. This change is not doomsday for tanking!
@BuggeX please stay civil, I did write nothing to justify that kind of aggression. As said in reply to your original post, in its current state, nirnhoned prevents most of these from being effective. Aside from fear, siege weaponry was the only really effective option against this build, which is exactly why almost every DK left in Cyrodiil uses it.
Or mby because we dont have range skills and are forced to use Blockcast to do somthing with our class skills?
Our Main Spells are under 8m range.
That whipe ignore doge is a bug and should be fixed allready, but well so is the 50% procing jesusbeam.
Nirnhorned will be fixed,
Hmmm, well chains give immunity so after a pull you could just rolldoge away or cloak away. If i Play Magicka on DK i dont have a high Stamina pool to use Invasion often. I also have to rolldoge wich also consum Stamina.
Permablocking DK is strong cause of his selfheal with Dmg Spells, like Inhalation and whipe. With the new Patch Heal will get a nerf by 50% insteed of 20% so with this all together, and the lack of a proper gap closer to Magicka and the lack of range, its a huge nerf
edit: chain can also be doged btw: If chains would have a Morph to a proper gap closer i would be okEdited by BuggeX on July 3, 2015 1:14PM#makemagickadkgreataigan
#givemeaexecute
#ineedheal
#betterhotfixgrindspots0 -
Leandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Always nice to see well argued posts in reply to criticism. Good job, @Sithisvoid!Sithisvoid wrote: »
Are you learning impaired? Look at the title of the thread take your PvP talk out of hereSithisvoid wrote: »hydrocynus wrote: »Sithisvoid wrote: »You ppl know heavy attack regen magika and stamina right? So if a tank is running you out of magika and stamina it's only you that's to blame. I run a DK Destro/Resto and have NEVER been run out of mana. I'll stonefist the tank off his feet and smack him down. Yall need to step your game up. Oh and I've only been playing a few weeks on console.
I would love to see you heavy attacking the Manticore.
Are you guys learning impaired or just incapable of reading plain English? I'M TALKING ABOUT PVP
Well since the nerf is being implemented BECAUSE of pvp crybabies I think i have a valid point. Sorry you simple ppl can't see that but honestly that's not MY problem. I blame your English teachers and reading comprehension. If that's not why this nerf exists plz, by all means enlighten me since you are a beacon of information. I'm waitingPossible irony may have been intended.
That is exactly my point. I think the better fix would be to have chains pull opponents through CC immunity. It should still be blockable, though, especially with the block changes.
As a stamina NB, I have no ranged attacks. I have to use bow. I have exactly one gap closer. Instead of complaining about removal of an imbalanced build, why not petition to have chains work in Cyrodiil as they were intended?Oh come on! They're not disabling block or reduce its mitigation, they are just removing stamina regeneration while holding down RMB. You can still block shitloads of damage if you have a reasonable stamina pool, especially since the other regeneration abilities are going to be buffed! Yes, that includes direct stamina gained by DK passives or stamina regained by using spear shard synergy.
You still have pots to regain stamina immediately if in a bad situation. This change is not doomsday for tanking!
@BuggeX please stay civil, I did write nothing to justify that kind of aggression. As said in reply to your original post, in its current state, nirnhoned prevents most of these from being effective. Aside from fear, siege weaponry was the only really effective option against this build, which is exactly why almost every DK left in Cyrodiil uses it.
Or mby because we dont have range skills and are forced to use Blockcast to do somthing with our class skills?
Our Main Spells are under 8m range.
That whipe ignore doge is a bug and should be fixed allready, but well so is the 50% procing jesusbeam.
Nirnhorned will be fixed,
Hmmm, well chains give immunity so after a pull you could just rolldoge away or cloak away. If i Play Magicka on DK i dont have a high Stamina pool to use Invasion often. I also have to rolldoge wich also consum Stamina.
Permablocking DK is strong cause of his selfheal with Dmg Spells, like Inhalation and whipe. With the new Patch Heal will get a nerf by 50% insteed of 20% so with this all together, and the lack of a proper gap closer to Magicka and the lack of range, its a huge nerf
edit: chain can also be doged btw: If chains would have a Morph to a proper gap closer i would be okEdited by Leandor on July 3, 2015 1:17PM0 -
Sithisvoid✭✭✭✭✭
Always nice to see well argued posts in reply to criticism. Good job, @Sithisvoid!Sithisvoid wrote: »
Are you learning impaired? Look at the title of the thread take your PvP talk out of hereSithisvoid wrote: »hydrocynus wrote: »Sithisvoid wrote: »You ppl know heavy attack regen magika and stamina right? So if a tank is running you out of magika and stamina it's only you that's to blame. I run a DK Destro/Resto and have NEVER been run out of mana. I'll stonefist the tank off his feet and smack him down. Yall need to step your game up. Oh and I've only been playing a few weeks on console.
I would love to see you heavy attacking the Manticore.
Are you guys learning impaired or just incapable of reading plain English? I'M TALKING ABOUT PVP
Well since the nerf is being implemented BECAUSE of pvp crybabies I think i have a valid point. Sorry you simple ppl can't see that but honestly that's not MY problem. I blame your English teachers and reading comprehension. If that's not why this nerf exists plz, by all means enlighten me since you are a beacon of information. I'm waitingPossible irony may have been intended.
In other words you got nothing.0 -
BuggeX✭✭✭✭✭
✭
That is exactly my point. I think the better fix would be to have chains pull opponents through CC immunity. It should still be blockable, though, especially with the block changes.
As a stamina NB, I have no ranged attacks. I have to use bow. I have exactly one gap closer. Instead of complaining about removal of an imbalanced build, why not petition to have chains work in Cyrodiil as they were intended?Oh come on! They're not disabling block or reduce its mitigation, they are just removing stamina regeneration while holding down RMB. You can still block shitloads of damage if you have a reasonable stamina pool, especially since the other regeneration abilities are going to be buffed! Yes, that includes direct stamina gained by DK passives or stamina regained by using spear shard synergy.
You still have pots to regain stamina immediately if in a bad situation. This change is not doomsday for tanking!
@BuggeX please stay civil, I did write nothing to justify that kind of aggression. As said in reply to your original post, in its current state, nirnhoned prevents most of these from being effective. Aside from fear, siege weaponry was the only really effective option against this build, which is exactly why almost every DK left in Cyrodiil uses it.
Or mby because we dont have range skills and are forced to use Blockcast to do somthing with our class skills?
Our Main Spells are under 8m range.
That whipe ignore doge is a bug and should be fixed allready, but well so is the 50% procing jesusbeam.
Nirnhorned will be fixed,
Hmmm, well chains give immunity so after a pull you could just rolldoge away or cloak away. If i Play Magicka on DK i dont have a high Stamina pool to use Invasion often. I also have to rolldoge wich also consum Stamina.
Permablocking DK is strong cause of his selfheal with Dmg Spells, like Inhalation and whipe. With the new Patch Heal will get a nerf by 50% insteed of 20% so with this all together, and the lack of a proper gap closer to Magicka and the lack of range, its a huge nerf
edit: chain can also be doged btw: If chains would have a Morph to a proper gap closer i would be ok
I dont think a pull would work the way a Charge is, Change the Morph wich give increest range, to a normal ChargeEdited by BuggeX on July 3, 2015 1:23PM#makemagickadkgreataigan
#givemeaexecute
#ineedheal
#betterhotfixgrindspots0 -
Leandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Also an option, but would void the uniqueness of the chains. Not necessarily an argument against it, but flavour is nice as well.
That is exactly my point. I think the better fix would be to have chains pull opponents through CC immunity. It should still be blockable, though, especially with the block changes.
As a stamina NB, I have no ranged attacks. I have to use bow. I have exactly one gap closer. Instead of complaining about removal of an imbalanced build, why not petition to have chains work in Cyrodiil as they were intended?Oh come on! They're not disabling block or reduce its mitigation, they are just removing stamina regeneration while holding down RMB. You can still block shitloads of damage if you have a reasonable stamina pool, especially since the other regeneration abilities are going to be buffed! Yes, that includes direct stamina gained by DK passives or stamina regained by using spear shard synergy.
You still have pots to regain stamina immediately if in a bad situation. This change is not doomsday for tanking!
@BuggeX please stay civil, I did write nothing to justify that kind of aggression. As said in reply to your original post, in its current state, nirnhoned prevents most of these from being effective. Aside from fear, siege weaponry was the only really effective option against this build, which is exactly why almost every DK left in Cyrodiil uses it.
Or mby because we dont have range skills and are forced to use Blockcast to do somthing with our class skills?
Our Main Spells are under 8m range.
That whipe ignore doge is a bug and should be fixed allready, but well so is the 50% procing jesusbeam.
Nirnhorned will be fixed,
Hmmm, well chains give immunity so after a pull you could just rolldoge away or cloak away. If i Play Magicka on DK i dont have a high Stamina pool to use Invasion often. I also have to rolldoge wich also consum Stamina.
Permablocking DK is strong cause of his selfheal with Dmg Spells, like Inhalation and whipe. With the new Patch Heal will get a nerf by 50% insteed of 20% so with this all together, and the lack of a proper gap closer to Magicka and the lack of range, its a huge nerf
edit: chain can also be doged btw: If chains would have a Morph to a proper gap closer i would be ok
I dont think a pull would work the way a Charge is, Change the Morph wich give increest range, to a normal ChargeEdited by Leandor on July 3, 2015 1:31PM0 -
hydrocynus✭✭✭✭✭Sithisvoid wrote: »
Are you learning impaired? Look at the title of the thread take your PvP talk out of hereSithisvoid wrote: »hydrocynus wrote: »Sithisvoid wrote: »You ppl know heavy attack regen magika and stamina right? So if a tank is running you out of magika and stamina it's only you that's to blame. I run a DK Destro/Resto and have NEVER been run out of mana. I'll stonefist the tank off his feet and smack him down. Yall need to step your game up. Oh and I've only been playing a few weeks on console.
I would love to see you heavy attacking the Manticore.
Are you guys learning impaired or just incapable of reading plain English? I'M TALKING ABOUT PVP
Well since the nerf is being implemented BECAUSE of pvp crybabies I think i have a valid point. Sorry you simple ppl can't see that but honestly that's not MY problem. I blame your English teachers and reading comprehension. If that's not why this nerf exists plz, by all means enlighten me since you are a beacon of information. I'm waiting
We all agree why this nerf is happening. I dont think anyone is arguing that point. This is not a discussion about that. It is a discussion about how this nerf affects PvE.
In anycase i can see i was wrong - you were talking about Heavy attacks from a DPS perspective and not from a Tank perspective, so my response was actually wrong because as DPS you are probably allowed to Heavy attack the Manti. I am sure you can understand how i got that confused since we are talking about how this affects PvE so i assumed you were looking at it from that point of view.
What you could do, is to maybe make your own thread about ways to stop losing resources while attacking a tank in PvP with his shield up, and let us get on with our rant about how this affects us in PvE without listening to your sidetrack moans and protestations of our obvious lack of intelligence (since you have nothing much to add to our actual conversation anyway).
My internet is invalid5 -
The Uninvited✭✭✭✭✭
✭As a stamina NB, I have no ranged attacks. I have to use bow. I have exactly one gap closer. Instead of complaining about removal of an imbalanced build, why not petition to have chains work in Cyrodiil as they were intended?
Don't know if you're bow/dual wield like I am, but hey:
Flying Blade will give Major Brutality which increases Weapon Damage by 20%. This is to bring Dual Wield in line with Rally (2H).
Edit: Dual Wield OP, plz nerf!Edited by The Uninvited on July 3, 2015 2:14PMPandora's Promise (rip) | LND | Pactriotic | IKnowWhatUDidLastWinter's | The Uninvited |
Ride the paranoia | All life is pain | Only the grave is real0 -
BuggeX✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Also an option, but void the uniqueness of the chains. Not necessarily an argument against it, but flavour is nice as well.
That is exactly my point. I think the better fix would be to have chains pull opponents through CC immunity. It should still be blockable, though, especially with the block changes.
As a stamina NB, I have no ranged attacks. I have to use bow. I have exactly one gap closer. Instead of complaining about removal of an imbalanced build, why not petition to have chains work in Cyrodiil as they were intended?Oh come on! They're not disabling block or reduce its mitigation, they are just removing stamina regeneration while holding down RMB. You can still block shitloads of damage if you have a reasonable stamina pool, especially since the other regeneration abilities are going to be buffed! Yes, that includes direct stamina gained by DK passives or stamina regained by using spear shard synergy.
You still have pots to regain stamina immediately if in a bad situation. This change is not doomsday for tanking!
@BuggeX please stay civil, I did write nothing to justify that kind of aggression. As said in reply to your original post, in its current state, nirnhoned prevents most of these from being effective. Aside from fear, siege weaponry was the only really effective option against this build, which is exactly why almost every DK left in Cyrodiil uses it.
Or mby because we dont have range skills and are forced to use Blockcast to do somthing with our class skills?
Our Main Spells are under 8m range.
That whipe ignore doge is a bug and should be fixed allready, but well so is the 50% procing jesusbeam.
Nirnhorned will be fixed,
Hmmm, well chains give immunity so after a pull you could just rolldoge away or cloak away. If i Play Magicka on DK i dont have a high Stamina pool to use Invasion often. I also have to rolldoge wich also consum Stamina.
Permablocking DK is strong cause of his selfheal with Dmg Spells, like Inhalation and whipe. With the new Patch Heal will get a nerf by 50% insteed of 20% so with this all together, and the lack of a proper gap closer to Magicka and the lack of range, its a huge nerf
edit: chain can also be doged btw: If chains would have a Morph to a proper gap closer i would be ok
I dont think a pull would work the way a Charge is, Change the Morph wich give increest range, to a normal Charge
Yea, but this would also help Stamina user, so they dont are forced to use 2H for a chargeThe Uninvited wrote: »As a stamina NB, I have no ranged attacks. I have to use bow. I have exactly one gap closer. Instead of complaining about removal of an imbalanced build, why not petition to have chains work in Cyrodiil as they were intended?
Don't know if you're bow/dual wield like I am, but hey:
Flying Blade will give Major Brutality which increases Weapon Damage by 20%. This is to bring Dual Wield in line with Rally (2H).
Edit: Dual Wield OP, plz nerf!
Just Keep trowing kniffes at me
edit: i will love dw with a 20% buffed steeltornado...lolEdited by BuggeX on July 3, 2015 2:17PM#makemagickadkgreataigan
#givemeaexecute
#ineedheal
#betterhotfixgrindspots0 -
tpanisiakb16_ESO✭✭✭✭
Oh, I have the counter. Only thing is you guys complain about that almost as much as sorcs complain about the shield nerf.Personofsecrets wrote: »
Yes I do play a DK tank from time to time in cyrodiil. If you can't beat us, then figure out a counter to the supposed DK menace rather than having the devs do it for you.Completely wrong. Either you play one of these and intend to spew misinformation or you don't PvP. The permanently blocking DKs (GDB, Scales, Spiked Armor, Whip, Invasion and Banner on the bar, never change weapons) were a thing. Especially with Whip bypassing dodge, that is the most ridiculous build in all of Cyrodiil. Good thing this is now tackled.
This playstyle (permablock DK) needs to go. There is nothing skillful in it. You can only attack them from melee range cause wings and then you get whipped to death because there was no way to evade it. The second you use fear to break their fortress you get hate whispers. Well played.
I would have been fine with Whip change alone, but this is better.
It might be a surprise to you, since you are a self-identified 100% PvPer, but not every PvE tank is a DK. You seemingly keep having issues with these permablocking DK's, so naturally let's nerf all PvE tanks. Not only is anything outside of a DK tank heavily discouraged in vDSA, no other class has the passive buffs to mitigation quite like DK's have.
Go tank axes as a sorc tank, or try to survive Sacrafice adds in vDSA as a sorc, now take away the shield. What do you get?
Mush.
It's so clear in your statements here that you're angered about permablock DK's. That's not even 100% of the problem. The problem is something that exists in Cyrodiil but something we PvE tanks will feel the repercussions for. Pretty fair, right?
Here's a hint next time you deal with a permablocker: Their DPS output is usually poor and they suck once Magicka or Stamina drops, so make them burn either resource pool. Sorry you can't one-shot them from afar.Edited by tpanisiakb16_ESO on July 3, 2015 2:19PM8 -
BuggeX✭✭✭✭✭
✭@tpanisiakb16_ESO dont even think dps from a blocking dk is poor lol#makemagickadkgreataigan
#givemeaexecute
#ineedheal
#betterhotfixgrindspots0 -
Leandor✭✭✭✭✭
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You do realize that you are talking to the person whose very first comment on this issue was thistpanisiakb16_ESO wrote: »
Oh, I have the counter. Only thing is you guys complain about that almost as much as sorcs complain about the shield nerf.Personofsecrets wrote: »
Yes I do play a DK tank from time to time in cyrodiil. If you can't beat us, then figure out a counter to the supposed DK menace rather than having the devs do it for you.Completely wrong. Either you play one of these and intend to spew misinformation or you don't PvP. The permanently blocking DKs (GDB, Scales, Spiked Armor, Whip, Invasion and Banner on the bar, never change weapons) were a thing. Especially with Whip bypassing dodge, that is the most ridiculous build in all of Cyrodiil. Good thing this is now tackled.
This playstyle (permablock DK) needs to go. There is nothing skillful in it. You can only attack them from melee range cause wings and then you get whipped to death because there was no way to evade it. The second you use fear to break their fortress you get hate whispers. Well played.
I would have been fine with Whip change alone, but this is better.
It might be a surprise to you, since you are a self-identified 100% PvPer, but not every PvE tank is a DK. You seemingly keep having issues with these permablocking DK's, so naturally let's nerf all PvE tanks. Not only is anything outside of a DK tank heavily discouraged in vDSA, no other class has the passive buffs to mitigation quite like DK's have.
Go tank axes as a sorc tank, or try to survive Sacrafice adds in vDSA as a sorc, now take away the shield. What do you get?
Mush.
It's so clear in your statements here that you're angered about permablock DK's. That's not even 100% of the problem. The problem is something that exists in Cyrodiil but something we PvE tanks will feel the repercussions for. Pretty fair, right?
Here's a hint next time you deal with a permablocker: Their DPS output is usually poor and they suck once Magicka or Stamina drops, so make them burn either resource pool. Sorry you can't one-shot them from afar.
in this very thread, where the post you quoted was taken from a ongoing conversation with @BuggeX dealing specifically with DK permablocking in Cyrodiil and which included a comment on other posts making it appear that blocking will dissappear from the game?Food for thought: Make the "stamina regeneration stop while blocking" be a debuff tied to the Cyrodiil battle spirit thing. Voila, separated the PvP issue from PvE.
Oh wait, you are not.
Bonus points for assuming that I don't know how to deal with opponents in PvP and that I am a one button monkey spamming snipe.Edited by Leandor on July 3, 2015 2:32PM0 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Most of the posts here talk of the potential problems with PvE content are doing so assuming that dungeons and trials will be the same in 1.7 as they are in 1.6.
They wont be. They will be nerfed, dumbed down, and made easier to compensate for this change.
Remember when the Praxin fight in Spindleclutch was actually a challenge and when you actually went into the Tunnel against the Lich in Wayrest Sewers?Make Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.0 -
hydrocynus✭✭✭✭✭Yeah I agree. simply being VR16 will surely mean that most of the current content will be waaay too easy so we wouldn't really have to block even 5 or 6 axes/Wraiths but maybe that's best kept to be chatted about in all the VR16 threads that are going.My internet is invalid0
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SanderBuraas✭✭✭✭✭Personofsecrets wrote: »Jared_lindsey86_ESO wrote: »Y'know they could FINISH ALCHEMY and introduce Poisons of Ravage stamina. Solves the PVP issue while leaving PVE unaffected...
You forget that players are only allowed to "counter" an issue in pvp when they are "countering" getting one shot by arrows and big swords. If it isn't one shotting you, then the devs must immediately step in and solve the "problem," such as block casting.
In case you didn't catch it, all damage will be reduced by half in Cyrodiil (including heals and damage shields) to prolong fights.
Permanent blocking and block casting in pvp is one of the most broken parts of the game, and I am glad they are attempting to solve it. However, I do think reducing damage done when holding block with a shield would be a more suitable change.0 -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
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There will be new content then that you wont be able to do cause no stam to taunt/block?Joy_Division wrote: »Most of the posts here talk of the potential problems with PvE content are doing so assuming that dungeons and trials will be the same in 1.7 as they are in 1.6.
They wont be. They will be nerfed, dumbed down, and made easier to compensate for this change.
Remember when the Praxin fight in Spindleclutch was actually a challenge and when you actually went into the Tunnel against the Lich in Wayrest Sewers?
#MOREORBS0 -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭They need to fix this change and make it only apply for PvP as the ONLY problem right now is PvP players having a sook they can't kill tanky players#MOREORBS3 -
amasuriel✭✭✭✭Personofsecrets wrote: »"No stamina regen while blocking will put a stop to the perma blockers. This is more directed toward PvP, but unfortunately will affect PvE as well."
"@ZOS_JessicaFolsom Please tell me you thought about this right and you guys have tanked end game content before? This decision will ruin PvE"
Even if you all haven't tanked end game content, I have.
Proof
Armor Values
Cost of Blocking
AA Hardmode
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom
I'm honestly tired of the unnecessary changes.
First of all, I've been pushing for emperor this week. I occasionally play a tank in PVP and enjoy it, most of all, in duels. Trust me, the problem isn't tanks, it is glass cannons one shotting players and then running away. A tank is a fun challenge because they have the power to disrupt a group, but can't cowardly run away. There is joy in bringing them down, but malice in taking down the degenerate one shot and done builds. You figure out which one is problematic and which one is fair.
Second of all Stop eviscerating well developed parts of the pve game for pvp game. I'm exhausted with the number of players and now, apparently, developers who totally forget about pve. A few days ago I made a thread about fixing certain issues with stamina dps that I see as problematic. The number of people telling me to learn how to avoid enemy attacks was staggering and especially so when I made no mention of pvp being the reason for my thoughts and actively told people that I didn't have pvp in mind when I thought of those changes to stamina dps.
Let players figure out how to bring down a tanks stamina, don't implement a game change to hand hold players who didn't make their build to kill the uncommon enemy. Second of all, if you are going to promote more degenerate glass cannon builds in pvp, then don't unfairly give the same treatment to pve players. I'm hopeful that the change in stamina regeneration while blocking isn't horrible, but I'm not holding my breath.
Exactly this. Anyone saying "you just need to learn a different taking style" is missing the point. Blocking is being nerfed because it provides much more defensive power than armor does. Tanks wear heavy armor and sword and shield more for the block cost reductions and block mitigation improvements than the armor (not to mention the ~20% mitigation that comes from hist bark).
If tanks need to rely on armor mitigation not blocking as a primary defense, there is no point in having a tank for 99% of fight, since medium armor will only give you 20% less mitigation than heavy.
The ideal group for vet dungeons or DSA will be 2 stamina DPS that have a taunt on their off bar (inner fire if you don't want sword and shield bar, 2 of them so they can trade if one gets in trouble), 1 magicka DPS who can off heal for emergencies / burst (or a third stam DPS if they have vigor) and a full healer.
Even in raids, the same logic applies. Better to have 3-4 stam DPSes trade off on AA axes and have the healers overheal them than waste 2 slots on tanks that are only marginally more durable and cannot DPS. More off healers and more stam DPS with a taunt will be much more effective.3 -
tpanisiakb16_ESO✭✭✭✭Personofsecrets wrote: »"No stamina regen while blocking will put a stop to the perma blockers. This is more directed toward PvP, but unfortunately will affect PvE as well."
"@ZOS_JessicaFolsom Please tell me you thought about this right and you guys have tanked end game content before? This decision will ruin PvE"
Even if you all haven't tanked end game content, I have.
Proof
Armor Values
Cost of Blocking
AA Hardmode
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom
I'm honestly tired of the unnecessary changes.
First of all, I've been pushing for emperor this week. I occasionally play a tank in PVP and enjoy it, most of all, in duels. Trust me, the problem isn't tanks, it is glass cannons one shotting players and then running away. A tank is a fun challenge because they have the power to disrupt a group, but can't cowardly run away. There is joy in bringing them down, but malice in taking down the degenerate one shot and done builds. You figure out which one is problematic and which one is fair.
Second of all Stop eviscerating well developed parts of the pve game for pvp game. I'm exhausted with the number of players and now, apparently, developers who totally forget about pve. A few days ago I made a thread about fixing certain issues with stamina dps that I see as problematic. The number of people telling me to learn how to avoid enemy attacks was staggering and especially so when I made no mention of pvp being the reason for my thoughts and actively told people that I didn't have pvp in mind when I thought of those changes to stamina dps.
Let players figure out how to bring down a tanks stamina, don't implement a game change to hand hold players who didn't make their build to kill the uncommon enemy. Second of all, if you are going to promote more degenerate glass cannon builds in pvp, then don't unfairly give the same treatment to pve players. I'm hopeful that the change in stamina regeneration while blocking isn't horrible, but I'm not holding my breath.
Exactly this. Anyone saying "you just need to learn a different taking style" is missing the point. Blocking is being nerfed because it provides much more defensive power than armor does. Tanks wear heavy armor and sword and shield more for the block cost reductions and block mitigation improvements than the armor (not to mention the ~20% mitigation that comes from hist bark).
If tanks need to rely on armor mitigation not blocking as a primary defense, there is no point in having a tank for 99% of fight, since medium armor will only give you 20% less mitigation than heavy.
The ideal group for vet dungeons or DSA will be 2 stamina DPS that have a taunt on their off bar (inner fire if you don't want sword and shield bar, 2 of them so they can trade if one gets in trouble), 1 magicka DPS who can off heal for emergencies / burst (or a third stam DPS if they have vigor) and a full healer.
Even in raids, the same logic applies. Better to have 3-4 stam DPSes trade off on AA axes and have the healers overheal them than waste 2 slots on tanks that are only marginally more durable and cannot DPS. More off healers and more stam DPS with a taunt will be much more effective.
When I think of tanking in MMOs I think of a heavy-armor clad warrior, shield up, mouth agape spilling taunting words and running straight into the thick of things. The entire logic behind this nerf means that the idea ESO tank is probably going to be the scenario you described above. Or, a heavy armor clad two-handed, brawler swiping menace.
I guess what bothers me the most is that a good tank can usually carry a weak group. It's not going to be super duper easy like druids tank swipe-spam, but generally tough content could be mitigated by a tank who is prepared and knowledgeable.
All I keep thinking now is how ESO tanks will become the weak link in every group situation. "Lol guys, block. axes got me, rez quik pl0x".1 -
Psychobunni✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Nifty2g Start a "movement" (gotta be careful of wording on forums) here, in game, every social media you have access to, to flood /feedback and PTS (when it comes) that they have to do something different that does not affect PVE in this manner.
Reality is you have to be louder than all the PVP crying.If options weren't necessary, and everyone played the same way, no one would use addons. Fix the UI!0 -
The Uninvited✭✭✭✭✭
✭In case you didn't catch it, all damage will be reduced by half in Cyrodiil (including heals and damage shields) to prolong fights.
As far as I know, this will only be applied to the Battle Spirit buff.
Pandora's Promise (rip) | LND | Pactriotic | IKnowWhatUDidLastWinter's | The Uninvited |
Ride the paranoia | All life is pain | Only the grave is real0