PvE Tanking Future. - DO NOT GET RID OF STAM REGEN WHILE BLOCKING IN PVE

Personofsecrets

Nifty2g wrote: »

And Manti's hit timer is around 3 seconds, while one cast of an Earthen Heart ability gives you enough stamina to block it. But of course that is too difficult, we shouldn't be forced to do more than hit the taunt button while holding right mouse button, right?

You really have not tanked it before lol, constant bleeds on you, role dodging runes, keeping yourself alive for most of the fight especially on "stack phase". There will be virtually no stamina for you to live, your comments are embarrassing honestly.

I don't even think roll dodging is super viable for a tank. The vulnerability frames that a tank receives at the end of a roll dodge, but before they can re-block, is prone to getting them killed.

DDuke

Personofsecrets wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

No I don't.

If new content is *** easy because of game mechanics, then we are back to square one: too easy content.

now that tanking has been 'fixed' the next 'solution' is obviously to roll back all of the progress that dps and healers have made wither their build and play styles. That will sure shake the game up!

That is exactly what happens each major patch, new gear setups & new rotations have to be found.

Kuroinu

This'll all blow over once people get used to this change and if it happens to become an increasing problem they'll probably do some boss battle adjustments to either make incoming power attacks more apparent or just flat out reduce the damage taken slightly.

Best to not flip out and just do your best to get used to the change because it seems like it's for the better and will make tanking a lot more interesting.

Azalin76

People said the same thing when they nerfed the dmg that bash did so long ago. Everyone said tanks are now useless and unusable because they couldn't do any damage in pve. That was last year sometime and tanks figured it out and over came the problem. I don't see how this is any different.

Personofsecrets

DDuke wrote: »

But they still wouldn't release PvE end game content without testing it in house and making sure it's completable, and if that content actually requires tank rotations, CCing of adds, more teamplay (e.g. templar shards), they very well might be heading in the right direction at last. And people complain, lol.

I'm not sure if Keeper Imiril or Praxin Douare we tested going from 1.4 to 1.5. Imiril ate a lot of bones and Praxin gave a lot of nightmares before both of those bosses had their bugged mechanics changed when going from 1.5 to 1.6.

Also, let me introduce you to silver leash which was totally broken with the 1.6 transfer. Or perhaps the Spawn of Mephala. That boss has had many changes in back to back incremental patches, but despite all of the fixes and testing that must have been done with it, it still arbitrarily forgets that it is taunted.

There is also a case of taunting being stealth nerfd. The game was thrown into such chaos, due to tanks being messed with, that the change was quickly reverted.

Honestly, I can't fault them for not getting to test every single thing, but then they shouldn't be coming out with unnecessary changes to the game.

Sindarious

Sometimes I think they must wake up and think, Hmm How can we *** off everyone today!!! For Real....

BuggeX

I resetet my CP and changed glyphs from stam reg to somthing else. was on 1300 reg now i have 400.
switched out some gear
Played 3 Hours of PVP, you dont feel much different
And i play just solo in pvp
There where some case where i died caus of stamina, but i dont guess it would change much if 10 ppl hitting you...

Blobsky

Never seen so many tears in 1 thread... Im a tank, its quite simple - time your blocks for when you are about to be damaged, unblock when you have taken the hit - Covers any boss that doesn't hit very quickly. Just have to mix it up for downstairs sanctum with roll/block I guess, but it dies fast enough anyway

BuggeX

You know wath will be fun, tanking the 2 adds in vcoa on the asstitan

DDuke

Personofsecrets wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

But they still wouldn't release PvE end game content without testing it in house and making sure it's completable, and if that content actually requires tank rotations, CCing of adds, more teamplay (e.g. templar shards), they very well might be heading in the right direction at last. And people complain, lol.

I'm not sure if Keeper Imiril or Praxin Douare we tested going from 1.4 to 1.5. Imiril ate a lot of bones and Praxin gave a lot of nightmares before both of those bosses had their bugged mechanics changed when going from 1.5 to 1.6.

Ah, Praxin the Pugslayer & Imiril... both were perfectly doable, but some bad pugs did have trouble with them
"Overtuned" bosses, hardly anything gamebreaking.

I found them more fun, before nerfs.

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Also, let me introduce you to silver leash which was totally broken with the 1.6 transfer. Or perhaps the Spawn of Mephala. That boss has had many changes in back to back incremental patches, but despite all of the fixes and testing that must have been done with it, it still arbitrarily forgets that it is taunted.

Yes, Mephala is another boss that was slaughtering pugs and then tuned down.

Given that these dungeons are meant for the more casual players, I don't see a problem with that even though I prefer a challenge myself.

Personofsecrets wrote: »

There is also a case of taunting being stealth nerfd. The game was thrown into such chaos, due to tanks being messed with, that the change was quickly reverted.

Honestly, I can't fault them for not getting to test every single thing, but then they shouldn't be coming out with unnecessary changes to the game.

Another separate issue, not related to any PvE content itself.

I get what you're trying to say, that they don't test content before releasing it and I'm inclined to think the same way.

However, no PvE content up to date has been "impossible" to do.

Even DSAV/SO were perfectly completable before they ever got nerfed.

Alcast

good luck calculating block with LAG HAHAAHAHAH gj ZOS

in the end doesnt matter, by the time this is changed ppl will have 2k CP and can stack HP up to 70k

BRogueNZ

PTS.. try it before you cry it

BigMac_Smiley

I don't think you should be able to block and attack at the same time. The only weapon I could possibly see work with a block and attack is sword and shield, maybe there could be an exception to this weapon. I don't think they need to stop regeneration they just need to make it so you cannot attack and block at the same time.

Rinmaethodain

BRogueNZ wrote: »

PTS.. try it before you cry it

Yeah, wait before it too late and then settle down on halfmeans instead of voicing opinion when everything still can be changed and reverted when proper people will come back to sane mind.

tpanisiakb16_ESO

BigMac_Smiley wrote: »

I don't think you should be able to block and attack at the same time. The only weapon I could possibly see work with a block and attack is sword and shield, maybe there could be an exception to this weapon. I don't think they need to stop regeneration they just need to make it so you cannot attack and block at the same time.

Or, you know, make whatever the hell you're pressing cost more stamina / magicka if you're block casting. Leave stam regen the hell alone while blocking. Problem solved on all fronts. People will need to learn to drain stamina / magicka from PvP tanks. You know how quickly I'm reduced to mush when I get feared? Pretty damn quick.

DschiPeunt

DDuke wrote: »

[..]
Reasons people aren't that interested in competing for leaderboards anymore (or even doing PvE)?

• Content is ridiculously easy
• Content is not worth doing
• Content has been done billion times

[..]

I don't know, man, but I don't see how the changes in stamina regen for tanks will solve your points 2 and 3. But hey, maybe you have more insight than I do.

And for the content being ridiculously easy: do you think that change in stamina regen will really affect niftys or your or my raidgroups? I wouldn't think so. We will get used to it in 30 minutes I'd say. It will still be ridiculously easy, but it makes it much harder for mediocre players, who are trying to get their boss rotation right.

Everyone I know and play with is waiting for new and really challenging content, but those changes won't do that for us. They are just unnecessary and are made, because of PvP whiners.

Rune_Relic

I do find this difficult to understand when every hit you take sucks up your stamina.
If you cant regen...and you are losing stamina with multiple hits from adds....you have a problem.

Only way I can see this working is if you don't lose stamina on hits.
That way you cant rebuild stamina...but you cant lose stamina either if you just block.
If you block attack....the you lose stamina and don't get it back.

Other than chug stamina potions anyway.

http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Hircine's+Veneer+Set
...Perhaps we should focus on building stamina outside of blocking faster to make up for the loss of stamina blocking ?

Anlaemar

This change will make things very difficult for tanks, but I'm defiantly willing to give it a try before I say it isn't doable.

reclaimervii.sierra117ub17_ESO

DDuke wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

But they still wouldn't release PvE end game content without testing it in house and making sure it's completable, and if that content actually requires tank rotations, CCing of adds, more teamplay (e.g. templar shards), they very well might be heading in the right direction at last. And people complain, lol.

I'm not sure if Keeper Imiril or Praxin Douare we tested going from 1.4 to 1.5. Imiril ate a lot of bones and Praxin gave a lot of nightmares before both of those bosses had their bugged mechanics changed when going from 1.5 to 1.6.

Ah, Praxin the Pugslayer & Imiril... both were perfectly doable, but some bad pugs did have trouble with them
"Overtuned" bosses, hardly anything gamebreaking.

I found them more fun, before nerfs.

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Also, let me introduce you to silver leash which was totally broken with the 1.6 transfer. Or perhaps the Spawn of Mephala. That boss has had many changes in back to back incremental patches, but despite all of the fixes and testing that must have been done with it, it still arbitrarily forgets that it is taunted.

Yes, Mephala is another boss that was slaughtering pugs and then tuned down.

Given that these dungeons are meant for the more casual players, I don't see a problem with that even though I prefer a challenge myself.

Personofsecrets wrote: »

There is also a case of taunting being stealth nerfd. The game was thrown into such chaos, due to tanks being messed with, that the change was quickly reverted.

Honestly, I can't fault them for not getting to test every single thing, but then they shouldn't be coming out with unnecessary changes to the game.

Another separate issue, not related to any PvE content itself.

I get what you're trying to say, that they don't test content before releasing it and I'm inclined to think the same way.

However, no PvE content up to date has been "impossible" to do.

Even DSAV/SO were perfectly completable before they ever got nerfed.

English Please.

ENGLISH ONLY USA ENGLISH ONLY USA

reclaimervii.sierra117ub17_ESO

Blobsky wrote: »

Never seen so many tears in 1 thread... Im a tank, its quite simple - time your blocks for when you are about to be damaged, unblock when you have taken the hit - Covers any boss that doesn't hit very quickly. Just have to mix it up for downstairs sanctum with roll/block I guess, but it dies fast enough anyway

"I'm a bad tank" is the way you should put it ;^()

Bromburak

And Manti's hit timer is around 3 seconds, while one cast of an Earthen Heart ability gives you enough
stamina to block it.

Yes, in theory but if you tank Manti there is more todo than blocking this and your resource management is needed for your own survival anytime, you don't want to waste stamina for things that can be compensate a different way. You want to stay stable and efficient the whole fight and use it for the challenging parts or good night dragon night.

If you are not a DK tank or a NB tank with the ability to use skills to refill your own stamina you shouldnt be here right?

I have bad news for you, your NB should not be tanking DSA and your "refill" strategy doesn't help you anyway especially not when Mantikora says hello.

Let me ask you something. When you really think about it, what is THE #1 job of a tank? To hold aggro?

From trinity perspective yes but not in ESO.

Zenimax doesn't really play tanks like the best players do.
A problem because basically certain synergies are untested, there are barely people that play like us and a minority of the good players in the Psion group are more into PvP and not being asked when it comes to blocking details or feedback in PvE tanking.

This leaves the impression that Zeni is trying to push hybrid strategies more and more
to get rid of old school trinity mechanics. Why is this concerning? Because they don't differ
between PvP and PvE and they don't test things how it should be, they rely on feedback of a specific circle of players that are not good enough and this has severe impact on skill lines and mechanics because they don't isolate PvE from PvP.

Sindarious wrote: »

Sometimes I think they must wake up and think, Hmm How can we *** off everyone today!!! For Real....

Regarding the current conversation it would be helpful to improve their testing process before releasing a patch and start working together with more experienced players from the community for better feedback.
The problem is that designers and developers are not the best players and have different perspectives more technically thats why they rely on neutral feedback from specific people. Nobody is perfect thats why they need rota for test teams internally and take balancing issues more serious.

undefeatdgaul

So ZOS just going to blow this off and ignore everybody like they do with all the other problems?

LtCrunch

This is just another poorly thought out band-aid "fix".

Bromburak

undefeatdgaul wrote: »

So ZOS just going to blow this off and ignore everybody like they do with all the other problems?

I have some hope they will not because they usually implement something else than they have decided and communicated originally.

Plaid13ub17_ESO

So NB sap tanks with caltrops will be the new popular tank build just because they will be the only ones able to block a bunch of stuff at once.

Stalwart385

Next up:

Casting a heal stops mana regeneration for 4 seconds.

Damaging an enemy gives the enemy a 40k damage shield.

PBpsy

undefeatdgaul wrote: »

So ZOS just going to blow this off and ignore everybody like they do with all the other problems?

More or less this.
Yes. You got it.

Xjcon

Nifty2g wrote: »

Can you please, take the PvP talk out of here, it's about PvE end game content which will be made unable to play, you will get one shot if you do not block or have stamina to block. Nothing will be able to work around this, you will die in Sanctum, HRC, AA and VDSA on the first bosses.

If you don't think you can adapt to the changes then don't tank, I will reserve my criticism of the changes till its on the PTS and have tried it. Buy I do know that some of the top end tanks that got to do some of the testing are not upset so I look forward to the challenge.

Xjcon

ckbud wrote: »

This "no-stam-regen" while blocking idea is the worst possible idea I've ever heard of for this game. Tell me one person who plays this game who's actually asked for this and how would it improve the game?!?

There are many instances in PVE where the tank is not just on ONE completely solitary boss with no adds, holding block, standing still. There are MANY instances where the tank is on ONE or TWO bosses, and simultaneously gathering, taunting and tanking ALL the adds that spawn. In stage 7 of VDSA, while everyone is off killing sacrifices, I'm taunting and tanking and holding like 8 adds. Plus there are 2 bosses for that stage, and adds that spawn on top of them. Again, not just ONE boss and nothing else to worry about. Plus, remember the boss and the 3 and 4 Centurions in VDSA stage 8.

Don't see how I'm supposed to let go of block to regen my stam in any of these situations. This idea is just crazy, complete craziness. THIS IDEA MUST BE STOPPED BEFORE IT'S EVERY IMPLEMENTED! Please take a poll of the community on this before implementing it. Again, how does this improve people's enjoyment of the game?

How about no-stam-regen while blocking ONLY in PVP. I'd like to see Eric Wrobel tank endgame PVE with no stam regen while blocking. Completely preposterous. This is too drastic a change for PVE right now. How about we try it out at just 50%-stam-regen while blocking to start out with and we'll let you know how that goes? Never thought I'd hear news like this today. Crazy.

I guess it will be a game of cc.

Plaid13ub17_ESO

Really hope they rethink this before they let it go live. Such a bad idea.