Get rid of classes?
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Wintersage✭✭✭your funny, because you clearly have NEVER play an MMO at endgame in your life.
I wanted to reply. I really did. But I read the above and couldn't stop laughing.PVP and trials, whether you want that to be endgame or not, does not matter, as it is the endgame for ALL MMOs
Think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this.1 -
PKMN12✭✭✭✭✭Wintersage wrote: »your funny, because you clearly have NEVER play an MMO at endgame in your life.
I wanted to reply. I really did. But I read the above and couldn't stop laughing.PVP and trials, whether you want that to be endgame or not, does not matter, as it is the endgame for ALL MMOs
Think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this.
okay, please name ONE decently successful MMORPG where raiding and PVP are not endgame?Edited by PKMN12 on April 27, 2015 1:35AM0 -
leshpar✭✭✭Aett_Thorn wrote: »Getting rid of classes, and letting you choose any three skill lines in order to keep a bit of balance, would be great, IMO.
It would also allow the Devs to create individual skill lines without having to build three related skill lines to make a class out of. For instance, we could get a bard skill line, instead of a whole class. A necromancy skill line instead of a Necromancer class.
I think this is the best idea. Instead of choosing a class at character creation, you should be allowed to choose any 3 skill trees that are currently limited to classes. This would make for a lot of more interesting options than currently exist (and the options that currently exist are still awesome and many).1 -
Frawr✭✭✭✭✭Yes. We need more choice.
Too many people cannot think outside of a small standard box.
There will be builds and counter builds. Every build will have a counter. If not immediately then in a patch.
E.g., fossilise would put a dampener on your 'magicka build of opness'.
Also, we could have an open world territory control pvp area 10x the size of cyrodil. Would be amazing.
Currently we have zergfest e-sports pvp game where numbers are the biggest deciding factor And keeps can flip flop back and forth in minutes.
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newtinmpls✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I love the idea of getting rid of classes.
Sure, some spastic FOTM types would all "be the same" for a while after each patch.
The rest of use could have fun.Tenesi Faryon of Telvanni - Dunmer Sorceress who deliberately sought sacrifice into Cold Harbor to rescue her beloved.
Hisa Ni Caemaire - Altmer Sorceress, member of the Order Draconis and Adept of the House of Dibella.
Broken Branch Toothmaul - goblin (for my goblin characters, I use either orsimer or bosmer templates) Templar, member of the Order Draconis and persistently unskilled pickpocket
Mol gro Durga - Orsimer Socerer/Battlemage who died the first time when the Nibenay Valley chapterhouse of the Order Draconis was destroyed, then went back to Cold Harbor to rescue his second/partner who was still captive. He overestimated his resistance to the hopelessness of Oblivion, about to give up, and looked up to see the golden glow of atherius surrounding a beautiful young woman who extended her hand to him and said "I can help you". He carried Fianna Kingsley out of Cold Harbor on his shoulder. He carried Alvard Stower under one arm. He also irritated the Prophet who had intended the portal for only Mol and Lyris.***Order Draconis - well c'mon there has to be some explanation for all those dragon tattoos.
House of Dibella - If you have ever seen or read "Memoirs of a Geisha" that's just the beginning...
Nibenay Valley Chapterhouse - Where now stands only desolate ground and a dolmen there once was a thriving community supporting one of the major chapterhouses of the Order Draconis2 -
FireCowCommando✭✭✭✭✭This is a really, really, really bad idea.
I dont feel that its even needed to explain why.0 -
skillastat✭✭✭✭My Templar is a great Tank.(PC NA)
-Saulo Stamina Sorcerer
-skillastat Stamina Nightblade
-a blade spirit Stamina Templar
-Ultima Online I Magicka Dragonknight
-'Solo DC* Stamina Sorcerer
-'Ultima Online Stamina Dragonknight
-Nerd Dk Tank Dragonknight
-Solochi Magicka Sorcerer
-Solo Lucci Magicka Nightblade
-Sølomon Magicka Warden
*All characters are EP, except for one DC.
French Canadian!0 -
Heromofo✭✭✭✭✭I want to see more classes
More sub classes
The ability to master a sub class by locking you into it
Taking away classes means everyone would run the same build for pvp or pve and it will just be a joke.
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Skullemainia✭✭✭how the hell would that work!!!! and you can do anything with any class!!! I have a NB healer, a DK dps and a sorc tank. believe me they work!!0 -
Danikat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'd like it to work like Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim where instead of choosing a class you choose a number of skill lines to develop. (Possibly Arena and Daggerfall too, I've never played Arena and only very briefly played Daggerfall.)
I know Morrowind and Oblivion let you choose a 'class' but they were basically pre-made build templates where the skill lines were chosen for you. You could still develop other skills if you wanted to, or make your own selection from all the available skills. Unlike in most RPGs where you have to pick a class and then have no access at all to the other classes skills.
Of course there would have to be some type of limitation to stop players being able to develop all the skill lines. I don't think the system Morrowind and Oblivion had (where you had to choose to specialise in magic, strength or stealth and pick your best attributes and skills that didn't match those were much harder to level) would work because players would simply put in the time and effort to level the other skills anyway and then complain about the grind.
A better system could be to have a finite number of skill levels each character can have (say for example 500, enough to have 10 skills at level 50) and when you hit that you can't level any new ones without buying a respec. So you can either have 10 skills fully levelled or partial progress in 20, or whatever combination you want but you're unable to level them all fully.
Alternatively it could simply be a hard cap: you pick 3 skill lines from those which are currently the class skills and can't level the ones you don't pick. Even that would be an improvement.PC EU player | She/her/hers | PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!
"Remember in this game we call life that no one said it's fair"2 -
kevlarto_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Call it what you want this is an mmo/rpg and you have freedom in this mmo that other games do not give you, for example, I can wear any armor on any class, I can use any weapon, if I want to be a heavy armor battle mage with a sword and board I can be that, if I want to be a dress wearing staff spamming DK I can be that, now these may not be the best choices but the choice are there fro you to fit most play styles.
I have played all Single player Elder Scrolls games since Daggerfall, and I have played many mmo's since the 90's, and for the sake of balance and the dev's being able to create content they need classes, and does not matter what system you have there will still be fotm's there will still be players with to much time on their hands and a spread sheets with a parser sitting there to find the best builds, I have to vote no..:) That's not to say there can't be improvements, maybe sub classes more variety within the class and skills lines.Edited by kevlarto_ESO on May 3, 2015 10:52AM0 -
AngryNord✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I'd like it to work like Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim where instead of choosing a class you choose a number of skill lines to develop.
??????
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Classes
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Classes
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Heromofo✭✭✭✭✭I'd like it to work like Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim where instead of choosing a class you choose a number of skill lines to develop.
??????
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Classes
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Classes
I think that bloke is a newbie to the elder scrolls series lol.
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KrisButtar✭✭✭All the TES games either let us pick a class or choose our own skill lines as far back as I can remember. Maybe not get rid of the class system but allow us to pick the custom class option which was present in previous games. If balance is an issue balance the skill lines.0
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PKMN12✭✭✭✭✭KrisButtar wrote: ». If balance is an issue balance the skill lines.
not possible to do, ESPECIALLY with an open skill system, so sorry, balance breaks when you have an open skill system.0 -
danno8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭KrisButtar wrote: ». If balance is an issue balance the skill lines.
not possible to do, ESPECIALLY with an open skill system, so sorry, balance breaks when you have an open skill system.
Archeage does it very well. Won't comment on the rest of the game, but the 16 skill lines allowing you to choose 3 only at a time (you can switch it up at any time) has created a possible 120 different "classes".
Sure some will suck and others will dominate, but there is no "1 perfect build" for every situation, so you acyually wind up with more diversity than just DK=Tank, Templar=Healer scenario you get with rigid classes.
The best part of this system is you never get the "oh no I chose x class at character select and now I am stuck being terrible until they get around to balancing it" problem you get with rigid class selections.Edited by danno8 on May 3, 2015 2:04PM3 -
OtarTheMad✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭We need more classes not none. From a lore standpoint we have 10 races to choose from and all of them happen to know only 4 ways of fighting? (One of which is actually from Akavir) I say add a Mages class (yes, it's different from Sorc because it should contain more Elder Scrolls like spells and be more offensive), a nature friendly class (call beasts to help you etc. Think Bosmer) and maybe even a Necromancer class. The Elder Scrolls has a vast variety of classes, ESO can choose any of them and add them to the game.Edited by OtarTheMad on May 3, 2015 2:37PM0 -
Danikat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'd like it to work like Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim where instead of choosing a class you choose a number of skill lines to develop.
??????
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Classes
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Classes
And immediately below that bit I said:I know Morrowind and Oblivion let you choose a 'class' but they were basically pre-made build templates where the skill lines were chosen for you. You could still develop other skills if you wanted to, or make your own selection from all the available skills. Unlike in most RPGs where you have to pick a class and then have no access at all to the other classes skills.
If you're going to reply to a post you should really read more than the first sentence.PC EU player | She/her/hers | PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!
"Remember in this game we call life that no one said it's fair"1 -
PKMN12✭✭✭✭✭danno816_ESO wrote: »KrisButtar wrote: ». If balance is an issue balance the skill lines.
not possible to do, ESPECIALLY with an open skill system, so sorry, balance breaks when you have an open skill system.
Archeage does it very well. Won't comment on the rest of the game, but the 16 skill lines allowing you to choose 3 only at a time (you can switch it up at any time) has created a possible 120 different "classes".
Sure some will suck and others will dominate, but there is no "1 perfect build" for every situation, so you acyually wind up with more diversity than just DK=Tank, Templar=Healer scenario you get with rigid classes.
The best part of this system is you never get the "oh no I chose x class at character select and now I am stuck being terrible until they get around to balancing it" problem you get with rigid class selections.
if you think this, you must not have actually played Archage, or ANY RPG, that much...........
there might not be 1 perfect build, but there are definitely only a handful of them, compared to how many you can actually make.
so thanks for proving my point.0 -
KrisButtar✭✭✭KrisButtar wrote: ». If balance is an issue balance the skill lines.
not possible to do, ESPECIALLY with an open skill system, so sorry, balance breaks when you have an open skill system.
If they make all the skill lines balance in the 1st place, how is that breaking balance? Explain as I do not follow. I think that it would provide more variety with more builds not less. If everyone is picking the same 3 skill lines then the skill lines are not balance, either boost the others or nerf those 3.1 -
KrisButtar wrote: »KrisButtar wrote: ». If balance is an issue balance the skill lines.
not possible to do, ESPECIALLY with an open skill system, so sorry, balance breaks when you have an open skill system.
If they make all the skill lines balance in the 1st place, how is that breaking balance? Explain as I do not follow. I think that it would provide more variety with more builds not less. If everyone is picking the same 3 skill lines then the skill lines are not balance, either boost the others or nerf those 3.
The problem is you cannot make the abilities balanced and still have there be a reason to have the different lines (still being unique). The truth is no matter how much the abilities will look balanced on paper there will always be certain aspects of each ability the mesh far better with another. That synergy between very specific abilities is what makes certain builds far far stronger then others. To eliminate that we either bland and push the system into a boring cesspool of copy paste skills with only aesthetic differences or something akin to classes is pushed out to keep the abilities spread out along a broader base.0 -
KrisButtar✭✭✭sk8ingeckoub17_ESO wrote: »KrisButtar wrote: »KrisButtar wrote: ». If balance is an issue balance the skill lines.
not possible to do, ESPECIALLY with an open skill system, so sorry, balance breaks when you have an open skill system.
If they make all the skill lines balance in the 1st place, how is that breaking balance? Explain as I do not follow. I think that it would provide more variety with more builds not less. If everyone is picking the same 3 skill lines then the skill lines are not balance, either boost the others or nerf those 3.
The problem is you cannot make the abilities balanced and still have there be a reason to have the different lines (still being unique). The truth is no matter how much the abilities will look balanced on paper there will always be certain aspects of each ability the mesh far better with another. That synergy between very specific abilities is what makes certain builds far far stronger then others. To eliminate that we either bland and push the system into a boring cesspool of copy paste skills with only aesthetic differences or something akin to classes is pushed out to keep the abilities spread out along a broader base.
I already find that everyone uses the same builds and morphs 9/10ths of the time for each class which is why I feel dropping the class system would open things up. So the skill lines that don't get much use get used more often and the morphs no ones uses may find hidden synergies and become useful.1 -
helbjorn✭✭I believe they have already given us an unprecedented amount of freedom to build the characters we want within the constraints of a class system. There is no class restriction of gear, race, or stat progression. You can make most of the classes into subclasses that may not even have been intended during development. For example, you can make a shadowknight or warlock out of a nightblade. Or a fire mage out of a dragonknight. A priest or paladin out of a templar. A battlemage or elemental rogue out of a sorcerer.
Much of the enjoyment I get from the game is the metagame of creating these subclasses and making them functional as well as thematic.0 -
danno8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭danno816_ESO wrote: »KrisButtar wrote: ». If balance is an issue balance the skill lines.
not possible to do, ESPECIALLY with an open skill system, so sorry, balance breaks when you have an open skill system.
Archeage does it very well. Won't comment on the rest of the game, but the 16 skill lines allowing you to choose 3 only at a time (you can switch it up at any time) has created a possible 120 different "classes".
Sure some will suck and others will dominate, but there is no "1 perfect build" for every situation, so you acyually wind up with more diversity than just DK=Tank, Templar=Healer scenario you get with rigid classes.
The best part of this system is you never get the "oh no I chose x class at character select and now I am stuck being terrible until they get around to balancing it" problem you get with rigid class selections.
if you think this, you must not have actually played Archage, or ANY RPG, that much...........
there might not be 1 perfect build, but there are definitely only a handful of them, compared to how many you can actually make.
so thanks for proving my point.
I played Archeage for 4 months, taking a break from ESO to do it. I left because in order to play the game at a certain level you have to be absolutely glued to your property, never taking more than 1-2 days off at a time or risk losing everything.
At 38 years old I have played more RPG than most people who are playing ESO I would wager to bet. All the way back to original NES Dragon Warrior, with a dozen consoles and dozens of RPG's in between. So you are wrong in your assumption.
My point is that in Archeage, you do not need classes to have an open system and it works. At the very worst, it is as good and open as ESO, with as many viable builds, so why have classes at all?
Was that your point? If so you are welcome.
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dafox187✭✭✭olaf_fairshield wrote: »The Elder Scrolls has taught me one thing. It's that there are no limitations. ESO has been going in the right direction, but I still feel that my character is biased by the class he chooses. I shouldn't have to heal just because I chose Templar or I shouldn't have to tank because I chose Dragonknight. I propose that classes be removed all together in lieu of a system where skills/spells are taught by the different guilds of ESO i.e. Fighter skills are taught by the Fighter's Guild and spells are taught by the Mage's guild. We are no longer "Race X Class Y" we are simply, "Race X." Do you like this idea?
i dont these sorc wantabes to join mea
don't get mad at my spelling, autocorrect doesn't cover fantasy.
Why couldn't the Khajiit go to the party? She had to be Elsweyr.0
