Get rid of classes?

olaf_fairshield

The Elder Scrolls has taught me one thing. It's that there are no limitations. ESO has been going in the right direction, but I still feel that my character is biased by the class he chooses. I shouldn't have to heal just because I chose Templar or I shouldn't have to tank because I chose Dragonknight. I propose that classes be removed all together in lieu of a system where skills/spells are taught by the different guilds of ESO i.e. Fighter skills are taught by the Fighter's Guild and spells are taught by the Mage's guild. We are no longer "Race X Class Y" we are simply, "Race X." Do you like this idea?

BuggeX

Yes
But there has to be some Kind of Tools in first.
Like Spellcrafting
if you are able to craft your own spells like you want it, a System would work in a MMO. If you just remove classes, like in TSW, you will end up that ppl. will use the same skill over and over again.

Spangla

No - Just no. That is all

Aett_Thorn

Getting rid of classes, and letting you choose any three skill lines in order to keep a bit of balance, would be great, IMO.

It would also allow the Devs to create individual skill lines without having to build three related skill lines to make a class out of. For instance, we could get a bard skill line, instead of a whole class. A necromancy skill line instead of a Necromancer class.

TheShadowScout

That ship has sailed and sunk.
They won't redo their game to this extent, so there is little point in dreaming about a classless TES game at this point. Maybe in ESO-2, coming out around 2025...

Suru

olaf_fairshield wrote: »

I shouldn't have to heal just because I chose Templar or I shouldn't have to tank because I chose Dragonknight.

Sure some classes are really good at some things but, the only thing limiting you is yourself if you think x only does y.

BuggeX

TheShadowScout wrote: »

That ship has sailed and sunk.
They won't redo their game to this extent, so there is little point in dreaming about a classless TES game at this point. Maybe in ESO-2, coming out around 2025...

Well dont scream this loud. They allready removing the Vet-lvl and replace it with the CP System

Bfish22090

I disagree with OP

Donum-Dei

This option will give this Mmo the essential freedom as the Elder Scroll franchise, and it will definitely be something unique and incredible to experience to have. I still wonder when they are going to make Mages have the capability/option of having the skill tree with fire and ice. And if that will happen entirely. This could be a great opportunity to keep adding skill sets.

jkemmery

olaf_fairshield wrote: »

The Elder Scrolls has taught me one thing. It's that there are no limitations. ESO has been going in the right direction, but I still feel that my character is biased by the class he chooses. I shouldn't have to heal just because I chose Templar or I shouldn't have to tank because I chose Dragonknight. I propose that classes be removed all together in lieu of a system where skills/spells are taught by the different guilds of ESO i.e. Fighter skills are taught by the Fighter's Guild and spells are taught by the Mage's guild. We are no longer "Race X Class Y" we are simply, "Race X." Do you like this idea?

You DON'T have to heal just because you chose Templar, and you DON'T have to tank just because you chose Dragonknight. That's the thing. I see plenty of tank Templars in the game and plenty of DPS Dragonknights that use bows and staffs with light armor. The "classes" really just reflect a certain group of special skills and not a particular "old school RPG" type of class. Although I would personally prefer the Skyrim method of having all of the skill lines available and you simply progress in the ones that fit your fighting style, but still, you don't need to feel limited by your class choice. Think of it more as a martial arts type of discipline than the "Fighter, Mage, Healer, Thief" trope. Although, admittedly, only a Templar would make an effective healer, any class can gain proficiency in a healing staff.

Vedauwoo

"Pre-CU" Star Wars: Galaxies was this....just lots of skill lines and no established classes....you still end up with FOTM problems and without a "basic" class framework (i.e.: Tank, DPS, Heal), the programming aspect of acheiving balance among all the players is nearly impossible.

I will also note Pre-CU SW:G was canned within a year and replaced by a simpler system that allowed the game to survive for 7 or 8 years....

idk

Getting rid of classes would make game play vanilla boring to the max.

It would mean there would only be one dps build I'm game worth having and everyone without that build would be second rate. Seriously, wouod make this the most boring game out there.

Sotha_Sil

18974886544th thread about it. Nice idea but it's still too late for that and it could have been done only at the beginning of game development. Now please let it rest.

KrisButtar

remove classes and just balance all the skills with each other so there won't be a single build

sk8ingeckoub17_ESO

KrisButtar wrote: »

remove classes and just balance all the skills with each other so there won't be a single build

That would either make the skills very bland and essentially aesthetic. Or no matter how close they got the numbers there will always be a best min max build.

The everyone have everything build worls in typical es games because you can be godlike and balance really doesnt matter. But if tsw taught me anything freeform really turns games into cookie cutter for all competitive play with other specs mostly on alts, the clueless, or those going for a certain rp concept or flair

PKMN12

You would ONLY ever get rid the classes if you want everyone to use the EXACT same skills barring a few special snowflakes.

an open skill system is TERRIBLE for an MMO, ESPECIALLY one with such emphasis (supposedly) on PVP

the little balance that IS in the game is ONLY because of the classes.

TheShadowScout

Veteran ranks to Champion system is not that big a change - big enough, but not nearly as bad as balancing a completely classless system would be. Are you willing to spend another year or two without new content while they pour all their developer resources into that? Do you think the game could survive that? I doubt it.

Worse, a completely classless system is way harder to make interesting, since it will lack the varetee of a class system, since most characters will end up with the same cookie cutter build for their choosen role instead of being limited by the contraints of their classes (or enjoying ways to build around them). That's not a problem in single player games, but in MMO's it is more difficult to get right, requiring more development and playtesting and so on... and likely end up being boring in the end as more and more people start to act like clones, with all the same skills and little varietee anymore.

They made the game we have, and are working to improve it within the current syste,. That's good enough for me.

But go on, the horse is probably faking it anyways...

Argoniawind

Yes get rid of classes, i have always made my own character in Morrowind and Oblivion, and not use the class presets.. Elder Scrolls is about freedom and make it your own!!!

Bashev

Can you imagine a sors with reflective scale using breath of life, fear for CC and dark cloak after bolt escaping?

MCMancub

Veteran Ranks were a bad idea from the start and ZOS has admitted it and are fixing their mistake.

Classes are healthy for the meta. They prevent static play across the board. There's nothing wrong with them. In fact, the class system in ESO is by far better than any I've ever seen in an MMO. Why go and mess that up?

PKMN12

Argoniawind wrote: »

Yes get rid of classes, i have always made my own character in Morrowind and Oblivion, and not use the class presets.. Elder Scrolls is about freedom and make it your own!!!

too bad this is NOT a single palyer game, it is an MMO, and thus as to think about balance, something the single players NEVER cared about and it showed (no reason NOT to wear heavy armor, use magic, stealth, strong weapons, etc all at once, no mechanical reason to focus ONLY on a type of class, you could do everything)

Frawr

How would that sorc kill the cloaking NB who uses conjured ward and igneous shield and molten armaments to heavy attack and wrecking blow the sorc to death?

Balance is achieved.

I agree that they would need to restrict skill points. Current system allows for far too many skills.

SWG idea was better. 32 professions and sufficient points to master only 2. Choose people, choose.

AlnilamE

I like the classes the way they are. Enough individuality to make you distinct from the other classes, but enough flexibility to give you lots of options.

MCMancub

Frawr wrote: »

How would that sorc kill the cloaking NB who uses conjured ward and igneous shield and molten armaments to heavy attack and wrecking blow the sorc to death?

Balance is achieved.

I agree that they would need to restrict skill points. Current system allows for far too many skills.

SWG idea was better. 32 professions and sufficient points to master only 2. Choose people, choose.

And every single time the player will choose the best options. If things are 100% perfectly balanced (which, let's face it, they aren't), then the game becomes boring as every skill is nothing more than aesthetic.

PKMN12

Frawr wrote: »

How would that sorc kill the cloaking NB who uses conjured ward and igneous shield and molten armaments to heavy attack and wrecking blow the sorc to death?

Balance is achieved.

I agree that they would need to restrict skill points. Current system allows for far too many skills.

SWG idea was better. 32 professions and sufficient points to master only 2. Choose people, choose.

yup, and melee was so good there there was no reason not to use it. Jedi;s were LITERALLY so OP they could take down dozens of people at the same time. some of the abilties, and weapons are completely worthless, with no reason to use them

SWG was a game made with a COMPLETELY different mindset then ESO, or most MMOs today.

skarvika

At this point, all the class system does is cause imbalance. At the end of the day you still only have 5 slots on your bar. More options = more fun imo

Argoniawind

PKMN12 wrote: »

Argoniawind wrote: »

Yes get rid of classes, i have always made my own character in Morrowind and Oblivion, and not use the class presets.. Elder Scrolls is about freedom and make it your own!!!

too bad this is NOT a single palyer game, it is an MMO, and thus as to think about balance, something the single players NEVER cared about and it showed (no reason NOT to wear heavy armor, use magic, stealth, strong weapons, etc all at once, no mechanical reason to focus ONLY on a type of class, you could do everything)

To bad but this is an Elder Scrolls game and we the Elder Scrolls players are far more important to this game than mmo players, so if we say we want no classes then its up to the devs to make it happen and FYI this is an Open World Online RPG not an mmo!

Victus

Someone mentioned picking skill lines among a pool to choose from for a "class". This seems interesting, but would be better suited for a new game IMO (ESO2?).

Class systems with static skill lines are an MMO feature.

Sharee

Last thing the game needs is for all the players to be the same single FOTM spec.

At least now we got four.

Donum-Dei

What this game needs is more variety of skill sets for each class. At least give us that ESO.

PKMN12

Argoniawind wrote: »

PKMN12 wrote: »

Argoniawind wrote: »

PKMN12 wrote: »

Argoniawind wrote: »

Yes get rid of classes, i have always made my own character in Morrowind and Oblivion, and not use the class presets.. Elder Scrolls is about freedom and make it your own!!!

too bad this is NOT a single palyer game, it is an MMO, and thus as to think about balance, something the single players NEVER cared about and it showed (no reason NOT to wear heavy armor, use magic, stealth, strong weapons, etc all at once, no mechanical reason to focus ONLY on a type of class, you could do everything)

To bad but this is an Elder Scrolls game and we the Elder Scrolls players are far more important to this game than mmo players, so if we say we want no classes then its up to the devs to make it happen and FYI this is an Open World Online RPG not an mmo!

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please, again, answer my question what is an MMO.

It means MASSIVLEY MULTIPLAYER ONLINE GAME, how is this NOT an MMO

if it was not, then why does EVERY SINGLE place that describe it call it an MMO

also, no, it is NOT open world at all, or have you actually played? you cannot choose to do whatever you want where ever you want, you are limited by level and faction.

[Moderator Note: Removed moderated quote]