Craglorn needs to be made soloable

Enodoc · April 2015

Leijona wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Craglorn has a story, so it is irrelevant whether it is part of the story (whatever the story is) if people want to experience all the story-based content.

Solo players, who refuse to group, will never experience all story-based content, as dungeons and trials also have story.

That is true. Tough luck to them

My comment was directly in response to Enaijo saying it's not part of the story, there is nothing that is "needed" there, as it is entirely subjective on what you consider part of the story, depending on your interpretation of what the story actually is.

LucyferLightbringer · April 2015

Solo endgame content on the horizon? Don't make me laugh. It's months till consoles release, then there will be bugs and problems from release they will have to take months to fix, then eventually they will focus on finishing single player endgame content which will take loads of time once again. First endgame solo content is lightyears away. Till then endgame is 100% group only, and only thing solo players can do after finishing cadwells gold is roll an alt. We cant even get to vr 14 unless we want to perform many hour of mindless grind.

Enaijo · April 2015

LucyferLightbringer wrote: »

Solo endgame content on the horizon? Don't make me laugh. It's months till consoles release, then there will be bugs and problems from release they will have to take months to fix, then eventually they will focus on finishing single player endgame content which will take loads of time once again. First endgame solo content is lightyears away. Till then endgame is 100% group only, and only thing solo players can do after finishing cadwells gold is roll an alt. We cant even get to vr 14 unless we want to perform many hour of mindless grind.

If they decide to rework Craglorn, it will have to wait until the console-launch, so it will be even further away.
Fixing bugs on the console-client doesn't need quest-designers, art-designers and so on. It requires the systems-departement and a portion of Q&A.
From where do you take the knowledge, how much of the next zone is finished?
I'm pretty sure they wanna use the vibe of the console-launch to sell content not so far (2 - 3 months maybe) after the launch, before they lose a big bunch of the new players.

But we are turning in circles. I say changing Craglorn doesn't make sense at all, at this point in time. There are players that play ESO only because of the advertised adventure-zones and changing Craglorn would take longer than finishing content they already showed to us. It would hurt the game even more. Make of that whatever you want, I for one will brake the circle now

$infraction2008b16_ESO$ · April 2015

Enaijo wrote: »

I can only say, if you play on the PS4, EU-Server, Aldmeri Dominion and need the help of a V14 healer, you can message me or @Leijona if you need a V14 tank. And I know a lot of people in the forums that offered help for everyone. People can accept that help or hope for a better group-finder. But changing Craglorn doesn't solve that particular problem ...

You can offer all the help you want, it doesn't change interest in the zones quests as a whole. Most people generally don't want to touch group questing, they just want to find a nice niche spot to grind xp.

Animal_Mother · April 2015

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Scotia wrote: »

riverdragon72 wrote: »

90% of this game is soloable, we don't need another soloable zone.

Yes we do, as once you finish the quest for Molag Bal, there is nothing you can do in single player, and playing the Silver and Gold is not a continuation of the story but more needless questing of zones.

Craglorn should have been single player outside with some solo dungeons and group dungeons, complete waste of a zone as I am there every day and I see noone but people looking for mats and the endless LFG for the quests, or zone wide selling of items.

19 zones are full of solo content. 2 zones are group-encouraged (Craglorn and Cyrodiil). And there are further solo-able zones in development. There's MORE than enough solo content in the game.

But hey, at least these people aren't asking for solo "end game" content. Whatever the hell that is. They just want more stuff to do.

It's coming, don't worry. For now, just be patient, those of us who don't mind grouping have to be as well.

I really could care less about Craglorn. I spend the vast majority of my time in the solo zones or Cyrodiil. I wish I could ignore Craglorn altogether, but I can't - crafting writs and their rewards force me into Craglorn.

When last I checked crafting was a solo-able enterprise, why am I suddenly forced into grouping to collect my rewards for completing writs? Players would be up in arms if completing these required going into Cyrodiil and retrieving mats from a battlefield.

Rosveen · April 2015

Animal_Mother wrote: »

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Scotia wrote: »

riverdragon72 wrote: »

90% of this game is soloable, we don't need another soloable zone.

Yes we do, as once you finish the quest for Molag Bal, there is nothing you can do in single player, and playing the Silver and Gold is not a continuation of the story but more needless questing of zones.

Craglorn should have been single player outside with some solo dungeons and group dungeons, complete waste of a zone as I am there every day and I see noone but people looking for mats and the endless LFG for the quests, or zone wide selling of items.

19 zones are full of solo content. 2 zones are group-encouraged (Craglorn and Cyrodiil). And there are further solo-able zones in development. There's MORE than enough solo content in the game.

But hey, at least these people aren't asking for solo "end game" content. Whatever the hell that is. They just want more stuff to do.

It's coming, don't worry. For now, just be patient, those of us who don't mind grouping have to be as well.

When last I checked crafting was a solo-able enterprise, why am I suddenly forced into grouping to collect my rewards for completing writs? Players would be up in arms if completing these required going into Cyrodiil and retrieving mats from a battlefield.

I assume you mean surveys. You don't need to group for them. There was that one on top of a wasp nest, but it was moved. I could be wrong, but I think all the others are completely safe. I always collect them solo and haven't run into any problems.

AlnilamE · April 2015

Enodoc wrote: »

I know solo endgame content is coming, my point was that the current state is unbalanced. And I personally don't mind Craglorn being entirely group content as long as:
- People don't mind helping with quests they've already finished
- People don't mind grouping with a VR1
- People don't mind waiting for someone to read the quest dialogue
However, all of these situations have proven problematic.

Craglorn has a story, so it is irrelevant whether it is part of the story (whatever the story is) if people want to experience all the story-based content.

If you are EP on the NA server, I'd be happy to run them with you, either on my V14 that's already done everything or on my V4 that's just starting the Craglorn quests.

In the off-chance that we can't get/don't want a full group to run through most of it, I'm sure I can get the necessary number of people to step on the necessary number of stones at the appropriate times (which is only two points during the Lower Craglorn questline)

UrQuan · April 2015

Enaijo wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

@UrQuan summed it up quite nicely in another thread: ...

And solo-endgame-content is in the works, again and again ...

Is it though? I know new solo content is in the works, but is it solo endgame content with replayability (challenging solo raids and such), or is it just a new solo-friendly zone like the leveling zones? If it's the latter then at least it gives players who are primarily solo more stuff to do, so it's still good for them (and yes, I'm one of them), but I don't think it would really help the balance.

Enaijo wrote: »

Craglorn as group content is not a problem at all. It's not part of the story, there is nothing that is "needed" there and the next zone will be a solo-oriented one.

I actually agree with you on that. I don't think Craglorn being meant for groups is actually the problem. If it was required for progression then yes, I would consider it a problem. As it is, you don't actually have to do Craglorn. It's not a group-only gate that prevents you from doing anything else. Yes, it has a story that I want to experience (I haven't yet - I've got 5 VR characters, but the highest level amongst them is VR6, and I think I should at least finish the Cadwell's Silver zones before I move on to Craglorn, whether or not I need to group with people there), but if I have to group in order to experience it, I'm OK with that. I don't think finding a PUG to go through Craglorn would work very well, but I'm sure I'll be able to find guildies who will run it with me.

Enaijo wrote: »

A good bunch of people in this thread try to take away content that was advertised months before release (Adventure-Zones for groupplay) and without any alternative while the next solo-zones are already on the horizon. Sounds a bit ... odd to me, to be honest.

See, that's actually why I posted in the other thread that the quote from me above came from rather than here in this thread. I looked at the title of this thread and thought to myself "I understand where the OP is coming from, and I agree with him about the underlying problem, but I don't think changing Craglorn to be solo-friendly is the right solution." I believe that solo players have a legitimate concern about a lack of end-game solo content. I don't believe making Craglorn solo-friendly really alleviates this concern. All I think it would do is make group players upset. I think there's currently enough end-game content to keep a lot of group players happy, but only barely, and if you take away Craglorn from them, then there's no longer enough. Frankly there needs to be more end-game stuff for group players, not less.

From here on I think the release of end-game content needs to be skewed towards solo content, but new group content cannot be ignored either, and should be worked into the release schedule so that there's never too long without new content for either category. Once there's a better balance between solo end-game content and group end-game content (and I don't necessarily mean equal amounts of both - I'm OK with there being more group end-game content than solo, as long as there's a decent amount of both) then releases can skew a bit more towards group content.

The other side of my point is that during leveling there's loads and loads of solo-friendly content, which is fine and good, but there's so little content while leveling that requires a group. It's basically just the group dungeons. Sure, you can group up for any of the content in the leveling zones, but 95% of the time if you do that you'll absolutely faceroll everything - even if you're just in a group of 2!

What I'd ideally like to see is a group-oriented zone much like Craglorn, but that somehow scales like the group dungeons do. There are ways to achieve this even in overworld instances, but if that's too complicated, then have the zone show as one big zone on the map, but have it actually divided up by geography into lots of smaller zones, and each group gets its own instance of those smaller zones (it could be a series of connected vales in a mountain range, with each one it's own instance with quests and areas to discover, or an archipelago with each island it's own instance, or whatever). This would give group players something to do while leveling, and give them more opportunities to learn how to play in a group in ESO prior to reaching the levels when people generally start focusing on group raids (ie. when you can get Undaunted pledges).

Merlin13KAGL · April 2015

infraction2008b16_ESO wrote: »

While you can solo a lot of craglorn, it isn't solo content. It's designed for groups in mind, there are a lot more variables to consider rather than just surviving something like for example the repair bills, even if you don't die repair costs are still going to be high in a group encounter solo due to you taking more aggro than intended for one player.

@infraction2008b16_ESO , you're arguing semantics. Unless it's your absolute desire to have content phased only to you, "Solo" content is anything survivable without assistance, "Group" is anything requiring multiple people, either to survive or unlock passage.

Regarding repair cost, unless you are dying a lot, you will almost always find more salable loot than what your repair bill will be. For the rare times you do not, the times you have made extra will cover it. Gold is even easier to come by than content. If your bill is costing you that much, then it's apparently not intended to be solo'd.

If phasing is your definition, after the main quest, there is technically zero solo content in the game, as there will always be a chance or someone else being around. If repair cost is your concern, best avoid end game content entirely, as you're never going to first time through AA, HRC, SO, DSA, VDSA.

Pro tip: Cyrodiil has no repair costs involved in the PvP you abhor, won't even cost you a soul gem.

infraction2008b16_ESO wrote: »

There is plenty to do and they will continue to add more. Regarding "being a target in the alliance war," find a low population campaign or one your alliance controls.

EU apart from thornblade generally all blue... next.

Unless they are camping at the spawn gates, you go in and you proceed with caution, avoiding areas on the map that have crossed swords. It's not a danger free environment, but it's still quite doable. (And PvE deaths will still let you rez on the spot.)

infraction2008b16_ESO wrote: »

Again, I finished off all of it, all dolmens, all PVE repeatable, and found every skyshard (including the 4 knee-deep behind enemy lines) solo without the need to group up.

That's the problem, the almanac areas have no replay value. No repeatable quests, nothing like a daily XP reward or bounty quests for doing dolmens,group bosses, delves... nothing. It wouldn't be that much of an issue if they did your argument would have a leg to stand on.

I don't think you're after something to do so much as XP's. (Why your focus on the repeatables.)

If such is the case, the entire Silver and Gold Alliances are nothing but replay value. Doing a delve/public/group dungeon more than once is no less repetitious than something dubbed 'Repeatable.' The only difference lays in the fact that you get (arguably minor) end of Quest XP's and similar loot.

You can continue to work on alternate skills, farm mats, farm loot, or just generally explore the same as you have had the opportunity to do the entire game.

If you're absolutely wanting new solo content, looks like you're going to have to wait for Wrothgar. Word of advise, though, it too will have a limit to the amount of content it provides.

UrQuan · April 2015

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

@infraction2008b16_ESO , you're arguing semantics. Unless it's your absolute desire to have content phased only to you, "Solo" content is anything survivable without assistance, "Group" is anything requiring multiple people, either to survive or unlock passage.

No. Solo-friendly content (using that term to distinguish it from forced solo content) is anything designed and balanced to be doable by an average solo player at level. Group content is anything designed and balanced to be doable by an group of the appropriate size with a good balance of roles at level.

RainfeatherUK · April 2015

People coming to an MMO expecting everything to be Soloable.

Gets more ridiculous every time I hear it in this game. Try being less antisocial perhaps? Or do us all a favour and stick to single player >_<

Merlin13KAGL · April 2015

UrQuan wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

@infraction2008b16_ESO , you're arguing semantics. Unless it's your absolute desire to have content phased only to you, "Solo" content is anything survivable without assistance, "Group" is anything requiring multiple people, either to survive or unlock passage.

No. Solo-friendly content (using that term to distinguish it from forced solo content) is anything designed and balanced to be doable by an average solo player at level. Group content is anything designed and balanced to be doable by an group of the appropriate size with a good balance of roles at level.

@Urquan , while I understand this, infraction had some pretty specific gripes.

Craglorn was and should remain a group content balanced zone. I'm sure the rage would quickly set in if it was requested that a large portion of the soloable content (in every other area) be changed to require grouping.

So, why should it be changed the other way around?

I will concede, by your definition, there is no solo content in Craglorn, nor should there be.

If survivability is not a factor in determining solo balanced content, then the request essentially comes across as "Craglorn needs to be made easier," as it it currently (and I'm being generous here) balanced for parties of 4 or more.

Crag is one of the few areas where they actually have it about right. This would further remove the even more limited group content options beyond what they already are. And, you can't point to PvP as an alternative for group content if we can't point to Cyrodiil's PvE as an alternative for solo content.

EDIT: If your true wish is to ask for solo balanced repeatables in Silver and Gold, then I recommend you offer up some suggestions as to what those might be.

KleanZlate · April 2015

I started playing ESO for the solo content. Like many I'd played Skyrim and wanted to continue my Elder Scrolls adventure. I had never played an MMO and had no interest in PvP. ...until I tried PvP. After entering Cyrodiil there was no turning back but going at it alone was hard. That's why I joined a guild. I searched until I found a guild that seemed to offer gameplay that I liked. Went through the application process, bought a headset and installed Mumble. It totally opened the game for me.

Having gone through all the regular zones and reached end game it stings a bit that there is a whole zone out there with plenty of quests that I can't go through alone BUT I'm not going to cry about it. I've joined a guild that does a lot of Craglorn stuff although I haven't yet managed to find someone to go through the firsts quests. But I'm quite sure that I will in the end. This game isn't a sprint for me and I have plenty to do besides Craglorn.

$infraction2008b16_ESO$ · April 2015

RainfeatherUK wrote: »

People coming to an MMO expecting everything to be Soloable.

How stupid can you get. Try being less antisocial perhaps.

Not expecting everything to be soloable, but expecting endgame zones not to be balanced towards 4 man groups only.

As for coming from other MMO's, I've come from swtor, GW2 and rift. All those MMO's had a good balance between solo and group play.

Where as this game which is based on a single player RPG franchise couldn't deliver the solo replayability it's own single player sibling Skyrim does so well.

Shunravi · April 2015

I did this before without CP and at level. Only recording now. And it's the first of many as long as we discuss this.
Upper Craglorn Fearfangs Cavern.

https://youtu.be/3vN5lH7HbZw

It's not to prove any point really, or to show off. It's for perspective.

UrQuan · April 2015

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

@infraction2008b16_ESO , you're arguing semantics. Unless it's your absolute desire to have content phased only to you, "Solo" content is anything survivable without assistance, "Group" is anything requiring multiple people, either to survive or unlock passage.

No. Solo-friendly content (using that term to distinguish it from forced solo content) is anything designed and balanced to be doable by an average solo player at level. Group content is anything designed and balanced to be doable by an group of the appropriate size with a good balance of roles at level.

@Urquan , while I understand this, infraction had some pretty specific gripes.

Craglorn was and should remain a group content balanced zone. I'm sure the rage would quickly set in if it was requested that a large portion of the soloable content (in every other area) be changed to require grouping.

So, why should it be changed the other way around?

I will concede, by your definition, there is no solo content in Craglorn, nor should there be.

If you look at my post immediately above the post of yours that I replied to, you'll see that we agree on that. I feel that there's not a good balance between solo and group end-game content (it's basically all group), or between solo and group leveling content (it's almost all solo), but I don't feel that making any changes to Craglorn is a solution.

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

EDIT: If your true wish is to ask for solo balanced repeatables in Silver and Gold, then I recommend you offer up some suggestions as to what those might be.

Yeah, basically there should be actual challenging solo end-game content - ideally repeatable. For groups we've got the vet dungeons and the trials. Challenging solo-only raids should be added. Alternatively (or preferably additionally) there should be raids where the level of the enemies scales as it does now, while the number of enemies scales based on the number of players. If you're doing the raid solo you face groups of 5 mobs, or whatever, and for each extra player in the group you face 3 more in the group. If you're solo each boss is a single boss, if you're a group of up to 4 each boss comes with an additional mini-boss, if you're in a large group you get an extra mini-boss between 5-8 players, and another between 9-12... Make different achievements (and possibly different loot rewards) for the raids depending on whether you did it solo, in a small group, or in a large group.

Merlin13KAGL · April 2015

UrQuan wrote: »

Yeah, basically there should be actual challenging solo end-game content - ideally repeatable. For groups we've got the vet dungeons and the trials. Challenging solo-only raids should be added. Alternatively (or preferably additionally) there should be raids where the level of the enemies scales as it does now, while the number of enemies scales based on the number of players. If you're doing the raid solo you face groups of 5 mobs, or whatever, and for each extra player in the group you face 3 more in the group. If you're solo each boss is a single boss, if you're a group of up to 4 each boss comes with an additional mini-boss, if you're in a large group you get an extra mini-boss between 5-8 players, and another between 9-12... Make different achievements (and possibly different loot rewards) for the raids depending on whether you did it solo, in a small group, or in a large group.

@urQuan , I agree completely. They missed the mark on scaling and took the quick fix by linking it to the group leader, vice average level, total group level, and number of players in the group.

That would guarantee a challenge (after they balanced initially) for any group of any mix. There would be no more getting your butt handed to you at VR14x4, there would be no downscaling to the point of faceroll.

It would have been a bit more work upfront, but would have made content balancing ultimately easier for them in the long run.

I want everyone to be able to feel like they have something worthwhile to do in this game, on a continued basis. This is something I may have failed to convey in the midst of my debate.

@infraction2008b16_ESO , what I am trying to get across is that neither 'side' should have content modified or removed to accommodate this.

They'll have to keep people happy in the long run, and if you don't continuously feel engaged and like you have purpose, you will eventually find an alternative that gives you both.

Give us some examples of solo type repeatables you'd like to see. Maybe they'll get it worked in somewhere in there.

Theosis · April 2015

badbeansnub18_ESO wrote: »

Yep, finding groups in Craglorn is pretty tough most of the time times.

fixed that for you

phreatophile · April 2015

My only gripe are the times when you need a group to even open the door. Forced group is as bad as forced solo.

UrQuan · April 2015

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

I want everyone to be able to feel like they have something worthwhile to do in this game, on a continued basis. This is something I may have failed to convey in the midst of my debate.

@infraction2008b16_ESO , what I am trying to get across is that neither 'side' should have content modified or removed to accommodate this.

They'll have to keep people happy in the long run, and if you don't continuously feel engaged and like you have purpose, you will eventually find an alternative that gives you both.

Yes, exactly! Naturally, I want there to be content added that appeals to me personally. I don't only want content that appeals to me, though, because I know there are different types of players who enjoy different ways of playing, and I think we need to keep all of them happy if the game is going to thrive!

I will probably never do hardcore trials. That's OK - I still want there to be more content like that in the game, because I want the people who like to do hardcore elite group stuff to stay in the game. I do not want the existing trials to be nerfed to the point where I (as a non-hardcore gamer) can easily do them. I'm OK with not being able to do that content. Actually, at some point when I'm max level and have done enough vet dungeons to feel comfortable with it, I probably will give the trials a shot, but I'll probably die a lot, and that's OK. If I somehow manage to actually complete them, I'll be proud of that achievement if they haven't been nerfed. I'd rather have them stay elite and not be able to complete them than have them be nerfed down so that anyone can do them, and feel no sense of accomplishment when I beat them.

I don't really enjoy PVP. That's OK - I still want ZOS to work on making PVP better for all the PVPers. They haven't had a whole lot new since launch, and I feel like they need some love.

I don't like to grind. That's OK - I still want there to be grind spots added to the game that aren't in quests or dungeons associated with any achievements, so that those people who want to grind can go and grind to their hearts content, without any bad blood between grinders and questers.

I don't really like to RP (well, not in a game anyway - I do pen and paper RPGs in person with friends, but that's different to me somehow). That's OK - I still want there to be places where RPers can go off in their own instance so they can RP in peace without being trolled.

The better balance we have between all of the different types of gameplay, the more successful ESO will be in the long term. Focusing primarily on making any one segment of the player base happy to the point where other segments of the player base are neglected is a bad idea.

I think we're definitely on the same wavelength with this @Merlin13KAGL

UrQuan · April 2015

phreatophile wrote: »

My only gripe are the times when you need a group to even open the door. Forced group is as bad as forced solo.

To be honest, I don't have a problem with either forced group, or forced solo, but... Neither should be required in order to progress to content of the other type.

What I mean by that is that there shouldn't be any forced group content that must be completed in order to access some solo content, or vice versa. This is the problem I have with the forced solo content of the main quest.

As a primarily solo player, I was fine with doing the main quest all by myself, and I almost certainly would have done so even if I had the option to do it with others. A player who focuses on group play, though, was forced to do all this solo-only content in order to even get to the silver and gold zones. I know some players, even ones who play solo quite a bit, had real trouble with some of the main quest bosses, and would have loved to bring in a friend to help them just for that boss fight. A buddy of mine took about half a dozen tries to get past Mannimarco.

WraithAzraiel · April 2015

Vaerth wrote: »

+1 to this

@ZoS ONLY dungeons should require a group!

Craglorn is full of what could be considered for all intents and purposes, story-driven mini dungeons (delves) and group events.

IT

IS

NOT

GOING

TO

CHANGE

ANY

TIME

SOON.

DEAL WITH IT.

Now, I'm MORE than ready for the Devs to release new zones, with both solo and group activities. But the alteration of existing games zones isn't likely to happen, any time soon if at all.

WraithAzraiel · April 2015

Animal_Mother wrote: »

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Scotia wrote: »

riverdragon72 wrote: »

90% of this game is soloable, we don't need another soloable zone.

Yes we do, as once you finish the quest for Molag Bal, there is nothing you can do in single player, and playing the Silver and Gold is not a continuation of the story but more needless questing of zones.

Craglorn should have been single player outside with some solo dungeons and group dungeons, complete waste of a zone as I am there every day and I see noone but people looking for mats and the endless LFG for the quests, or zone wide selling of items.

19 zones are full of solo content. 2 zones are group-encouraged (Craglorn and Cyrodiil). And there are further solo-able zones in development. There's MORE than enough solo content in the game.

But hey, at least these people aren't asking for solo "end game" content. Whatever the hell that is. They just want more stuff to do.

It's coming, don't worry. For now, just be patient, those of us who don't mind grouping have to be as well.

I really could care less about Craglorn. I spend the vast majority of my time in the solo zones or Cyrodiil. I wish I could ignore Craglorn altogether, but I can't - crafting writs and their rewards force me into Craglorn.

When last I checked crafting was a solo-able enterprise, why am I suddenly forced into grouping to collect my rewards for completing writs? Players would be up in arms if completing these required going into Cyrodiil and retrieving mats from a battlefield.

I do crafting writs and survey reports in Craglorn as well. And I've RARELY had to fight anything to get to my nodes. Not since crafting writs were first introduced, any way.

If you're fighting things while trying to harvest your lush nodes in Craglorn, chances are you might not be approaching it along the best possible path.

UrQuan · April 2015

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Animal_Mother wrote: »

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Scotia wrote: »

riverdragon72 wrote: »

90% of this game is soloable, we don't need another soloable zone.

Yes we do, as once you finish the quest for Molag Bal, there is nothing you can do in single player, and playing the Silver and Gold is not a continuation of the story but more needless questing of zones.

Craglorn should have been single player outside with some solo dungeons and group dungeons, complete waste of a zone as I am there every day and I see noone but people looking for mats and the endless LFG for the quests, or zone wide selling of items.

19 zones are full of solo content. 2 zones are group-encouraged (Craglorn and Cyrodiil). And there are further solo-able zones in development. There's MORE than enough solo content in the game.

But hey, at least these people aren't asking for solo "end game" content. Whatever the hell that is. They just want more stuff to do.

It's coming, don't worry. For now, just be patient, those of us who don't mind grouping have to be as well.

I really could care less about Craglorn. I spend the vast majority of my time in the solo zones or Cyrodiil. I wish I could ignore Craglorn altogether, but I can't - crafting writs and their rewards force me into Craglorn.

When last I checked crafting was a solo-able enterprise, why am I suddenly forced into grouping to collect my rewards for completing writs? Players would be up in arms if completing these required going into Cyrodiil and retrieving mats from a battlefield.

I do crafting writs and survey reports in Craglorn as well. And I've RARELY had to fight anything to get to my nodes. Not since crafting writs were first introduced, any way.

If you're fighting things while trying to harvest your lush nodes in Craglorn, chances are you might not be approaching it along the best possible path.

The wasps that used to make an enchanting survey really difficult for a solo player to harvest (I used to fight them solo with a VR4 character, but I would usually die once, sometimes twice, in order to kill them) have been moved. There's still one survey location in Craglorn I can't seem to get to without going past multiple groups of mobs that slaughter me though. I probably haven't found the best path to it... I don't remember what survey it is, but if I recall correctly it's near Skyreach Catacombs.

Shunravi · April 2015

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Vaerth wrote: »

+1 to this

@ZoS ONLY dungeons should require a group!

Craglorn is full of what could be considered for all intents and purposes, story-driven mini dungeons (delves) and group events.

IT

IS

NOT

GOING

TO

CHANGE

ANY

TIME

SOON.

DEAL WITH IT.

Now, I'm MORE than ready for the Devs to release new zones, with both solo and group activities. But the alteration of existing games zones isn't likely to happen, any time soon if at all.

Especially since you can already solo them if you are built for it.

AlnilamE · April 2015

UrQuan wrote: »

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Animal_Mother wrote: »

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Scotia wrote: »

riverdragon72 wrote: »

90% of this game is soloable, we don't need another soloable zone.

Yes we do, as once you finish the quest for Molag Bal, there is nothing you can do in single player, and playing the Silver and Gold is not a continuation of the story but more needless questing of zones.

Craglorn should have been single player outside with some solo dungeons and group dungeons, complete waste of a zone as I am there every day and I see noone but people looking for mats and the endless LFG for the quests, or zone wide selling of items.

19 zones are full of solo content. 2 zones are group-encouraged (Craglorn and Cyrodiil). And there are further solo-able zones in development. There's MORE than enough solo content in the game.

But hey, at least these people aren't asking for solo "end game" content. Whatever the hell that is. They just want more stuff to do.

It's coming, don't worry. For now, just be patient, those of us who don't mind grouping have to be as well.

I really could care less about Craglorn. I spend the vast majority of my time in the solo zones or Cyrodiil. I wish I could ignore Craglorn altogether, but I can't - crafting writs and their rewards force me into Craglorn.

When last I checked crafting was a solo-able enterprise, why am I suddenly forced into grouping to collect my rewards for completing writs? Players would be up in arms if completing these required going into Cyrodiil and retrieving mats from a battlefield.

I do crafting writs and survey reports in Craglorn as well. And I've RARELY had to fight anything to get to my nodes. Not since crafting writs were first introduced, any way.

If you're fighting things while trying to harvest your lush nodes in Craglorn, chances are you might not be approaching it along the best possible path.

The wasps that used to make an enchanting survey really difficult for a solo player to harvest (I used to fight them solo with a VR4 character, but I would usually die once, sometimes twice, in order to kill them) have been moved. There's still one survey location in Craglorn I can't seem to get to without going past multiple groups of mobs that slaughter me though. I probably haven't found the best path to it... I don't remember what survey it is, but if I recall correctly it's near Skyreach Catacombs.

I think that's Clothier Survey III

The easiest way to get to it is to follow the river almost to the waterfall, kill the set of wasps that's there (grab the nearby chest if it's up) and then you can sneak up the hill to the survey without any aggro.

Emma_Overload · April 2015

Shunravi wrote: »

I did this before without CP and at level. Only recording now. And it's the first of many as long as we discuss this.
Upper Craglorn Fearfangs Cavern.
https://youtu.be/3vN5lH7HbZw

It's not to prove any point really, or to show off. It's for perspective.

Yes, I can solo Craglorn delves, too, and I frequently do because they are great ways to test a build for combat worthiness. But these delves don't solve the "end-game" problem for solo-oriented players because:

1) Loot levels are locked at VR11 and VR13, meaning you'll never have access to all the best-in-slot gear that just so happens to be VR12 and VR14.

2) Both the delve bosses and (some of) the overland mobs in Craglorn can be incredibly difficult to solo, but the gold and XP you get for doing so are not at all proportional to that difficulty.

3) Just because you can kill stuff in Craglorn doesn't mean you can actually complete the quests, several of which have buttons or pads that need to be pressed by multiple players simultaneously.

UrQuan · April 2015

AlnilamE wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Animal_Mother wrote: »

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Scotia wrote: »

riverdragon72 wrote: »

90% of this game is soloable, we don't need another soloable zone.

Yes we do, as once you finish the quest for Molag Bal, there is nothing you can do in single player, and playing the Silver and Gold is not a continuation of the story but more needless questing of zones.

Craglorn should have been single player outside with some solo dungeons and group dungeons, complete waste of a zone as I am there every day and I see noone but people looking for mats and the endless LFG for the quests, or zone wide selling of items.

19 zones are full of solo content. 2 zones are group-encouraged (Craglorn and Cyrodiil). And there are further solo-able zones in development. There's MORE than enough solo content in the game.

But hey, at least these people aren't asking for solo "end game" content. Whatever the hell that is. They just want more stuff to do.

It's coming, don't worry. For now, just be patient, those of us who don't mind grouping have to be as well.

I really could care less about Craglorn. I spend the vast majority of my time in the solo zones or Cyrodiil. I wish I could ignore Craglorn altogether, but I can't - crafting writs and their rewards force me into Craglorn.

When last I checked crafting was a solo-able enterprise, why am I suddenly forced into grouping to collect my rewards for completing writs? Players would be up in arms if completing these required going into Cyrodiil and retrieving mats from a battlefield.

I do crafting writs and survey reports in Craglorn as well. And I've RARELY had to fight anything to get to my nodes. Not since crafting writs were first introduced, any way.

If you're fighting things while trying to harvest your lush nodes in Craglorn, chances are you might not be approaching it along the best possible path.

The wasps that used to make an enchanting survey really difficult for a solo player to harvest (I used to fight them solo with a VR4 character, but I would usually die once, sometimes twice, in order to kill them) have been moved. There's still one survey location in Craglorn I can't seem to get to without going past multiple groups of mobs that slaughter me though. I probably haven't found the best path to it... I don't remember what survey it is, but if I recall correctly it's near Skyreach Catacombs.

I think that's Clothier Survey III

The easiest way to get to it is to follow the river almost to the waterfall, kill the set of wasps that's there (grab the nearby chest if it's up) and then you can sneak up the hill to the survey without any aggro.

Thanks, I'll try that!

Shunravi · April 2015

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

I did this before without CP and at level. Only recording now. And it's the first of many as long as we discuss this.
Upper Craglorn Fearfangs Cavern.
https://youtu.be/3vN5lH7HbZw

It's not to prove any point really, or to show off. It's for perspective.

Yes, I can solo Craglorn delves, too, and I frequently do because they are great ways to test a build for combat worthiness. But these delves don't solve the "end-game" problem for solo-oriented players because:

1) Loot levels are locked at VR11 and VR13, meaning you'll never have access to all the best-in-slot gear that just so happens to be VR12 and VR14.

2) Both the delve bosses and (some of) the overland mobs in Craglorn can be incredibly difficult to solo, but the gold and XP you get for doing so are not at all proportional to that difficulty.

3) Just because you can kill stuff in Craglorn doesn't mean you can actually complete the quests, several of which have buttons or pads that need to be pressed by multiple players simultaneously.

I'm sure most who actually try can solo. Again, not proving anything. And I am well aware of the door thing and I am on record in this very thread for speaking out against them. That's not the point, because there is none. Other than showing people dissuaded by attempting to solo them by posts like these that they can be soloed.

It's great you hunt for BiS gear, it really is. But in my rather extensive experience with both solo and group in this game, it's overrated. I have a mule stuffed with this mystical gear that I don't use, because it's frankly crap at the moment, that I would gladly give to you if it wasn't all bound. Heck, what sets do you want annyways?

Loot and RNG in this game is rather bad in general. And the value of endgame drops is poorly regarded because the BiS gear comes from Cyrodill vendors. The only ones that are of value that don't are the undaunted 2piece and masters weapons. And even those are subjectively used. Loot isn't just a problem for soloers.

So you run pve and are dissappointed with the rewards? Join the club.

Bouvin · April 2015

Instead of making Craglorn soloable, why don't they just make the rewards worthwhile.

No one wants to go through the pain of finding a group for Craglorn when they can just hit up another zone and get just as good rewards because Crag has been nerfed so hard.