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Craglorn needs to be made soloable
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Argoniawind✭✭✭KontrolledKhaos wrote: »It's too hard to find groups to run this zone. make it soloable ZOS
Perfectly said, I feel everything should have a solo side option to it!Edited by Argoniawind on April 16, 2015 4:51PM"Live Another Life In Another World"1 -
sagitter✭✭✭✭✭No sorry, most of the encounters are solo...need more group encounters. I got a guild of 70 ppl and it s sad that 80% of pve is solo,15% 4 men group and 5% is 12 men ... we would like as a guild have more group encounters.This is a mmo damn ,not your tes6.
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AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭infraction2008b16_ESO wrote: »Merlin13KAGL wrote: »
The argument of "They give you no other choice, except for this other choice." doesn't hold a lot of water when you look at it that way.
It holds plenty of water, this game has the elder scrolls name attracted to it after all it should give you more choices on how and what you do with your time in game... not put barriers up and push you one way or the other.
While you might enjoy grouping for everything or PvP have you thought that some people might not enjoy having to find groups for every single little thing or might not like being a target in the alliance war?
Nobody has to find groups for every single little thing in the game. The amount of things you need a group for is probably 5% of the game time.
I like soloing, but I also like grouping. I think it's fine that some content has to be done solo and some has to be done in groups and that for the majority, you have the choice one way or the other.The Moot Councillor2 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Titansteele wrote: »Ouch, my guild has just started working together in Craglorn, it would be sods law if it was nerfed to soloable.
I would rather this did not happen or if there was a compromise to be found leave North Craglorn as it is and nerf lower to make it solo friendly.
I enjoy solo aspects of the game but I much prefer getting in TeamSpeak, talking crap about your day with people that in some cases become life long close friends while questing together. The issue I have is I would like bigger groups to be able to work together. In a guild of 400 plus members organizing an event which is limited to 4 people is often painful and leaves people disappointed for one reason or another.
"I would rather this did not happen or if there was a compromise to be found leave North Craglorn as it is and nerf lower to make it solo friendly."
This wouldn't change the status quo, however, which is the whole problem. Individual VR14 players STILL wouldn't have much to do in Craglorn that was worth doing, and all the rewards that matched their level would still be hidden behind a "group-wall".
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Edited by Emma_Overload on April 16, 2015 5:13PM#CAREBEARMASTERRACE0 -
AngryNord✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭m.stollb16_ESO wrote: »Merlin13KAGL wrote: »As for the brief part requiring access, put out in zone chat that you need three other people long enough to stand on a pressure plate or unlock a door. After that, it's fair game. (Though most of you won't clear it solo or even duo.) You can assist with these even if you never picked up the quest, or have long completed it.
I know they've changed some of the doors that blocked non-questers since release (I think the door in Balamath, for example), but can you enter the dungeon in the end (last one in lower Craglorn at the lake) now, if you've already completed that quest?
Yes
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infraction2008b16_ESO wrote: »Merlin13KAGL wrote: »
The argument of "They give you no other choice, except for this other choice." doesn't hold a lot of water when you look at it that way.
It holds plenty of water, this game has the elder scrolls name attracted to it after all it should give you more choices on how and what you do with your time in game... not put barriers up and push you one way or the other.
While you might enjoy grouping for everything or PvP have you thought that some people might not enjoy having to find groups for every single little thing or might not like being a target in the alliance war?
Nobody has to find groups for every single little thing in the game. The amount of things you need a group for is probably 5% of the game time.
I like soloing, but I also like grouping. I think it's fine that some content has to be done solo and some has to be done in groups and that for the majority, you have the choice one way or the other.
We are talking at endgame here, once you've already done all the almanac (which all quests are one time not repeatables) all that's left is cyrodiil or craglorn. Meaning the only solo PvE quests outside of cyrodiil and crafting writs is actually 0%.0 -
Artemiisia✭✭✭✭✭
✭Join a guild, make friends, help others and see it being returned
When I came back to the game after 2-3 months break as vr12 and the two new vr levels has been introduced with upper craglorn, I could run through this map in one day because I meet friendly people, now with my new alt thats vr1, I have no trouble getting people to help me, since they also know ill be there for them in the future, both with my main dps, and they looking forward to have an addition healer to pull from as well0 -
Artemiisia wrote: »Join a guild, make friends, help others and see it being returned
I feel that's half the reason we see barriers like this in MMO's in general, so that it pushes people to join guilds to progress through content which IMO is the wrong way to go about it... you should join guilds because you like to be involved and play with the particular community or circle of friends not because it's the only way to progress through certain content.
I mean most guilds want someone who's "one of them" not someone who's just there to get past this stage of a quest or to do that raid.3 -
Merlin13KAGL✭✭✭✭✭
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@infraction2008b16_ESO , I actually spend the majority of my time solo.infraction2008b16_ESO wrote: »Merlin13KAGL wrote: »
The argument of "They give you no other choice, except for this other choice." doesn't hold a lot of water when you look at it that way.
It holds plenty of water, this game has the elder scrolls name attracted to it after all it should give you more choices on how and what you do with your time in game... not put barriers up and push you one way or the other.
While you might enjoy grouping for everything or PvP have you thought that some people might not enjoy having to find groups for every single little thing or might not like being a target in the alliance war?
Nobody has to find groups for every single little thing in the game. The amount of things you need a group for is probably 5% of the game time.
I like soloing, but I also like grouping. I think it's fine that some content has to be done solo and some has to be done in groups and that for the majority, you have the choice one way or the other.
ESO gives you quite a few choices, you just don't care for the ones they offer. Game hasn't been around long enough to have unlimited content for group or solo, either one, and (some) people will always burn through it faster than it can be developed.
It's why it was mentioned that you can do almost every ounce of content this game has to offer without grouping a single time. I do both as the mood hits me.
You can do most of the content, arguably making this MMO mostly solo based, if that's what you want. I'd go on, but @AlnilamE pretty well already covered it.
There is plenty to do and they will continue to add more. Regarding "being a target in the alliance war," find a low population campaign or one your alliance controls.
Again, I finished off all of it, all dolmens, all PVE repeatable, and found every skyshard (including the 4 knee-deep behind enemy lines) solo without the need to group up.
Count on taking your time and sneaking, but it's manageable.
They could make everything solo entry and make the mobs so vast and mean you couldn't pass the content without help. It would be no different.
Simply put, if you're willing to interact with a Quest NPC long enough for assistance in such a case, interacting with other people shouldn't be an issue.
People will always be leveling up and in need of quests/assists. You find the right set of people, you may find that you work well together and can be grouped, but solo, all at the same time.
Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...
Earn it.
IRL'ing for a while for assorted reasons, in forum, and in game.I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
Probably has checkbox on Customer Service profile that say High Aggro, 99% immunity to BS1 -
Artemiisia✭✭✭✭✭
✭infraction2008b16_ESO wrote: »Artemiisia wrote: »Join a guild, make friends, help others and see it being returned
I feel that's half the reason we see barriers like this in MMO's in general, so that it pushes people to join guilds to progress through content which IMO is the wrong way to go about it... you should join guilds because you like to be involved and play with the particular community or circle of friends not because it's the only way to progress through certain content.
I mean most guilds want someone who's "one of them" not someone who's just there to get past this stage of a quest or to do that raid.
well, I join the guilds where I like the people, and plays with them so thats actually what u saying, cant see why I should join a guild otherwise1 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭infraction2008b16_ESO wrote: »Artemiisia wrote: »Join a guild, make friends, help others and see it being returned
I feel that's half the reason we see barriers like this in MMO's in general, so that it pushes people to join guilds to progress through content which IMO is the wrong way to go about it... you should join guilds because you like to be involved and play with the particular community or circle of friends not because it's the only way to progress through certain content.
I mean most guilds want someone who's "one of them" not someone who's just there to get past this stage of a quest or to do that raid.
This is my first MMO. I never really found the idea of playing with people I didn't know very appealing. I did join a guild a few months in that really fit my style/personality and it made the game so much better!! I really can't imagine ESO without them.
I've also joined other guilds for other purposes (trading and raiding specifically), and I made sure they also matched my style. There are tons of guilds in the came that cater to all play styles and personalities. You just have to decide what you are looking for. I'm sure folks here would be happy to point you at guilds that would suit you.
The Moot Councillor2 -
Merlin13KAGL wrote: »@infraction2008b16_ESO , I actually spend the majority of my time solo.
ESO gives you quite a few choices, you just don't care for the ones they offer. Game hasn't been around long enough to have unlimited content for group or solo, either one, and (some) people will always burn through it faster than it can be developed.
It's why it was mentioned that you can do almost every ounce of content this game has to offer without grouping a single time. I do both as the mood hits me.
You can do most of the content, arguably making this MMO mostly solo based, if that's what you want. I'd go on, but @AlnilamE pretty well already covered it.
While you can solo a lot of craglorn, it isn't solo content. It's designed for groups in mind, there are a lot more variables to consider rather than just surviving something like for example the repair bills, even if you don't die repair costs are still going to be high in a group encounter solo due to you taking more aggro than intended for one player.There is plenty to do and they will continue to add more. Regarding "being a target in the alliance war," find a low population campaign or one your alliance controls.
EU apart from thornblade generally all blue... next.Again, I finished off all of it, all dolmens, all PVE repeatable, and found every skyshard (including the 4 knee-deep behind enemy lines) solo without the need to group up.
That's the problem, the almanac areas have no replay value. No repeatable quests, nothing like a daily XP reward or bounty quests for doing dolmens,group bosses, delves... nothing. It wouldn't be that much of an issue if they did your argument would have a leg to stand on.
Edited by infraction2008b16_ESO on April 16, 2015 6:53PM0 -
Heromofo✭✭✭✭✭Agreed i play eso for the elder scrolls part just until elder scrolls six. Me and my mates dont even play together back when were because we are solo players waiting for six lol.0 -
BrassRazoo✭✭✭✭✭NewBlacksmurf wrote: »BrassRazoo wrote: »Craglorn is not able to be soloed.
To all that are saying it they must not have actually done it.
There are a number of quests, the main storyline being the big problem, where you need four people at the exact same point to enter the last delve.
All most of us in this thread are asking is to remove that requirement, not make it easier.
Do not put group requirements into main story lines, make that optional, not essential.
All other Craglorn stuff can remain as is.
Then why have the content at all
Tell me what difference it would make if they took away the mandatory minimum player number requirement for a story quest in Craglorn?
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Pirhana7_ESO✭✭✭✭✭KontrolledKhaos wrote: »It's too hard to find groups to run this zone. make it soloable ZOS
You are not forced or required in any way to do the Craglorn Content. If it was required for certain abilities or skills or requirmeents then yes you would have a good arguement, but it is not..... If you need exp there are many other things to do and give better exp.Edited by Pirhana7_ESO on April 16, 2015 11:12PM0 -
BrassRazoo✭✭✭✭✭Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »KontrolledKhaos wrote: »It's too hard to find groups to run this zone. make it soloable ZOS
You are not forced or required in any way to do the Craglorn Content..... If you need exp there are many otehr things to do and give better exp.
You are not forced to do anything in the game.
But if you do want to do the quests and complete the story line in Craglorn you MUST have a group.
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ArgonianAssassin wrote: »
What would that be? I've completed the solo dungeons and delves, have the tamriel hero achievement. Even did the public dungeons and have fought my way through cadwell's silver and gold. Where's the other 2/3 playable solo content? There isn't any. I did it all on my way leveling up so I could do craglorn, which I can't, because there are no groups because everyone else already got there and did it before me. I want to be able to progress by myself in the event that my friends aren't able to help me. No ones saying to take away your vet dungeons, your pvp, or what have you, we want to be able to quest solo. And this is what this is, forced grouping to quest to progress further. Luckily you appear to be the minority here.Elijah_Crow wrote: »ArgonianAssassin wrote: »
Okay who said you couldn't group with your friends to do stuff? I want to be able to continue progressing my character beyond the main storyline, even if I don't have any friends online to help me. But if I don't, I can't do anything, period.Elijah_Crow wrote: »NO ! Don't take away what little group content there is in the game.
I like having SOMETHING to do with friends when they are on which isn't a face roll.
You have enough solo content.
You have 2/3 of the soloable content left in game. Your choice not to participate in it
No he is not....there are a few things people here are missing. Craglorn is NOT part of the main story line. In fact it is not even part of the alliance war story line. The story of craglorn is a stand alone storyline. This is the ONLY zone people can group up and explore and quest together in, why do you want to take the one zone that is designed for endgame grouping ? A lot of people, myself included loved the craglorn group questing experience. As I said before, there is NO OTHER zone in the game where groups can explore and quest together. When craglorn released questing and exploring the zone with a group was some of be most fun I have had in the game. So before your quick to call someone the minority maybe you should take a look around and listen to the people that have been here since beta and where there when craglorn launched.1 -
BrassRazoo✭✭✭✭✭Cervanteseric85ub17_ESO wrote: »This is the ONLY zone people can group up and explore and quest together in, why do you want to take the one zone that is designed for endgame grouping ? A lot of people, myself included loved the craglorn group questing experience. As I said before, there is NO OTHER zone in the game where groups can explore and quest together.
If you read many peoples comments in this thread we are not saying take that away or in any way make the content easier.
We are saying do not make it mandatory to be in a group.
It's simple, if you want to group and do the quests fine, nothing changes. But if you want to do it solo let us.
So don't make us require four people to stand on pads or push switches.
If we want to do it alone let us. If you want to do it in group that's fine.
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LucyferLightbringer✭✭✭✭✭No sorry, most of the encounters are solo...need more group encounters. I got a guild of 70 ppl and it s sad that 80% of pve is solo,15% 4 men group and 5% is 12 men ... we would like as a guild have more group encounters.This is a mmo damn ,not your tes6.
100% of endgame is group only. ZOS showed middle finger to solo players aswell as to players who don't want to group all the time with craglorn and we have B2P, if they keep at it next will be pulling the plug i believe.2 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭While I do agree that not all content should be soloable (this is a MMO for a reason), any designer who put "story" content behind "group-walls" is out his mind.
I did all of the group dungeons the game has to offer and have no idea what happened in there, bar a few memorable battles.
Group content should be "story-free". If story content is "group-only", this is a mistake (*), and therefore the content should be made soloable, by whatever mean necessary.
(*) Because very few people are going to enjoy said story. And that usually isn't the point.
I feel that way about solo only instances...interesting points of view
Can we somehow both be made happy?
-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5010 -
Enodoc✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@UrQuan summed it up quite nicely in another thread:Here's the problem: There's very little challenging group content while leveling, as almost everything while leveling is easily completed solo. Conversely, there's very little endgame solo content, as basically everything endgame requires groups (or, in the case of overworld Craglorn, doesn't require groups, but is designed for groups).
I think both of those things should change. There should be more challenging group content while leveling (yes, I know you can group through most of the leveling content, but that tends to make it a faceroll), and there should be a decent amount of endgame solo content (as part of a push for more endgame content in general - there needs to be more group endgame content too).
The balance isn't right at the moment, and I think it's a problem both for primarily solo players, and for primarily group players.UESP: The Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages - A collaborative source for all knowledge on the Elder Scrolls series since 1995
Join us on Discord - discord.gg/uesp0 -
NadiusMaximus✭✭✭✭✭It sucks all the lower delves get bumped up to your level, making soloing impossible if you just want to go back and see them again. it's more fun to go back and steamroll guys you had a hard time with originally.
There should be a choice in the difficulty of the content, and loot changed accordingly.0 -
Enaijo✭✭✭@UrQuan summed it up quite nicely in another thread: ...
And solo-endgame-content is in the works, again and again ... Craglorn as group content is not a problem at all. It's not part of the story, there is nothing that is "needed" there and the next zone will be a solo-oriented one.
A good bunch of people in this thread try to take away content that was advertised months before release (Adventure-Zones for groupplay) and without any alternative while the next solo-zones are already on the horizon. Sounds a bit ... odd to me, to be honest.
And again: there is no way, ZOS is changing Craglorn, no matter what is written in this thread, even if every single person here would have the same opinion. The official answer would be "there is more solo-content on the horizon, wait after the console-launch for more detailed informations on that". That's all what you would get.NadiusMaximus wrote: »There should be a choice in the difficulty of the content, and loot changed accordingly.
Paul Sage himself said at the last guild summit, that scaling content is to much work for them. So that's off the table also (and that's a shame and the wrong way for a modern MMO).Edited by Enaijo on April 17, 2015 9:35AM0 -
michael_bimson✭✭✭To be brutally honest:
ESO opened as a P2P game but PvP has always been somewhat problematic and the introduction of Craglorn as end game content has resulted in the game going B2P. Given ZOS stated intentions this indicates a downward trend in players/income.
Therefore ZOS needs to make changes to improve income. The cash shop is one of those changes but with no new content the cash shop is a placebo.
ESO's unique selling point is that it is Elder Scrolls. The series has a huge single player following and it would be a strange decision by ZOS not to leverage that to the full. It should come as no surprise to anyone that Elder Scrolls fans want to be catered for in ESO at end game with solo-able content.
Craglorn was roundly derided when it was first released. Changes need to be made to keep the game going, this idea should at least be given a try.1 -
Enaijo✭✭✭michael_bimson wrote: »this idea should at least be given a try.
It has nothing to do with "try" to be honest. It's a matter of time and money. I'm pretty sure, starting now with a rework of Craglorn would take more time than finishing the new solo zones that they already showed to us. And don't forget the fact, that for a lot of players, Craglorn is the only content they like to do. You would lose them as players.
I'm pretty sure they are thinking about everything to bring more players into the game. They have the actual numbers, they know what is played by whom, we don't.
And why change the apple to a orange, what would take 6 months of work, while you already know that there will be a new delivery of oranges in the next 3 months? Sounds like a waste of money and time to me with the risk to lose the people, that like apples.Edited by Enaijo on April 17, 2015 9:59AM0 -
michael_bimson wrote: »this idea should at least be given a try.
It has nothing to do with "try" to be honest. It's a matter of time and money. I'm pretty sure, starting now with a rework of Craglorn would take more time than finishing the new solo zones that they already showed to us. And don't forget the fact, that for a lot of players, Craglorn is the only content they like to do. You would lose them as players.
I'm pretty sure they are thinking about everything to bring more players into the game. They have the actual numbers, they know what is played by whom, we don't.
And why change the apple to a orange, what would take 6 months of work, while you already know that there will be a new delivery of oranges in the next 3 months? Sounds like a waste of money and time to me with the risk to lose the people, that like apples.
Judging by how quickly they can change things for example like the cyrodiil level, I wouldn't be surprised if the development teams have their own systems and frameworks in place to make changing things such as mob/area scaling easier.0 -
Enaijo✭✭✭infraction2008b16_ESO wrote: »Judging by how quickly they can change things for example like the cyrodiil level, I wouldn't be surprised if the development teams have their own systems and frameworks in place to make changing things such as mob/area scaling easier.
But it would take months. First they have to decide to do something, then they have to plan everything, followed by working on it, test it, rework it, test it again ... I would bet my ass, that a rework of Craglorn would take longer then releasing the next zone. And it would mean, that other content, like the imperial city or the new zones would come months later. And again, there are a bunch of players who like/love Craglorn, you would risk to lose them.
So you really think they should change Craglorn, what would take longer then releasing the next zone, with the risk of losing more players and the need to postpone other content (what would mean losing even more players)?1 -
Enodoc✭✭✭✭✭
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I know solo endgame content is coming, my point was that the current state is unbalanced. And I personally don't mind Craglorn being entirely group content as long as:
And solo-endgame-content is in the works, again and again ... Craglorn as group content is not a problem at all. It's not part of the story, there is nothing that is "needed" there and the next zone will be a solo-oriented one.@UrQuan summed it up quite nicely in another thread: ...
[...]
- People don't mind helping with quests they've already finished
- People don't mind grouping with a VR1
- People don't mind waiting for someone to read the quest dialogue
However, all of these situations have proven problematic.
Craglorn has a story, so it is irrelevant whether it is part of the story (whatever the story is) if people want to experience all the story-based content.Edited by Enodoc on April 17, 2015 10:25AMUESP: The Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages - A collaborative source for all knowledge on the Elder Scrolls series since 1995
Join us on Discord - discord.gg/uesp0 -
Leijona✭✭✭✭✭Craglorn has a story, so it is irrelevant whether it is part of the story (whatever the story is) if people want to experience all the story-based content.
Solo players, who refuse to group, will never experience all story-based content, as dungeons and trials also have story.2 -
Enaijo✭✭✭- People don't mind helping with quests they've already finished
- People don't mind grouping with a VR1
- People don't mind waiting for someone to read the quest dialogue
However, all of these situations have proven problematic.
That's a problem every single MMO has and can't really be solved. I can say, that at least 70% of the people I play with have no problem with all of that.
If you change Craglorn now and the next zone is released, it's unbalanced again ... so changing Craglorn isn't solving the problem.
I can only say, if you play on the PS4, EU-Server, Aldmeri Dominion and need the help of a V14 healer, you can message me or @Leijona if you need a V14 tank. And I know a lot of people in the forums that offered help for everyone. People can accept that help or hope for a better group-finder. But changing Craglorn doesn't solve that particular problem ...
And for the "forced-group-content": FFXIV is full of that and full of casual players that don't really liked group-content at all. But they have changed their mind after they tried it. Difference is: FFXIV has a really good grouping-tool and really good scaling for the lower dungeons and millions of subscribers as the second biggest p2p MMO out there. Coincidence? For me, that's the real problem of ESO and that will be an even bigger problem on the consoles.0