Varicite wrote: »

Yeah, that is why I'd rather they not go that route.

Unfortunately, the fact is that they have given 0 details about how they wish to proceed, and the latest clarifying information that I can find on the subject simply states that they "don't know" how they are going to go about the removal.

Personally, I say just make 50 the cap.

Huh....50 is the cap already.....I don't fully understand "just make 50 the cap" as a suggestion.
You can't ignore the VR to champion system conversion

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

Yeah, that is why I'd rather they not go that route.

Unfortunately, the fact is that they have given 0 details about how they wish to proceed, and the latest clarifying information that I can find on the subject simply states that they "don't know" how they are going to go about the removal.

Personally, I say just make 50 the cap.

Huh....50 is the cap already.....I don't fully understand "just make 50 the cap" as a suggestion.
You can't ignore the VR to champion system conversion

Well, I mean that when they remove VR, they don't know if they'll change it to a lv64 cap, or remove all of those levels and make us all lv50, or what. They have said this explicitly.

I am just saying that out of the options, I think that busting us all back down to lv50 would be the best solution as there are already 2 other progression systems being implemented.

Varicite wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

Yeah, that is why I'd rather they not go that route.

Unfortunately, the fact is that they have given 0 details about how they wish to proceed, and the latest clarifying information that I can find on the subject simply states that they "don't know" how they are going to go about the removal.

Personally, I say just make 50 the cap.

Huh....50 is the cap already.....I don't fully understand "just make 50 the cap" as a suggestion.
You can't ignore the VR to champion system conversion

Well, I mean that when they remove VR, they don't know if they'll change it to a lv64 cap, or remove all of those levels and make us all lv50, or what. They have said this explicitly.

I am just saying that out of the options, I think that busting us all back down to lv50 would be the best solution as there are already 2 other progression systems being implemented.

My opinion they do this it will be equal to the SWG NGE change. Basically the end of ESO. If they nerf all vet ranks and bump everyone back to lvl 50 after almost 2 years (by the time its done) then people are going to be leaving left and right. I just dont see how they could pull that off without making most people angry.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

Yeah, that is why I'd rather they not go that route.

Unfortunately, the fact is that they have given 0 details about how they wish to proceed, and the latest clarifying information that I can find on the subject simply states that they "don't know" how they are going to go about the removal.

Personally, I say just make 50 the cap.

Huh....50 is the cap already.....I don't fully understand "just make 50 the cap" as a suggestion.
You can't ignore the VR to champion system conversion

Well, I mean that when they remove VR, they don't know if they'll change it to a lv64 cap, or remove all of those levels and make us all lv50, or what. They have said this explicitly.

I am just saying that out of the options, I think that busting us all back down to lv50 would be the best solution as there are already 2 other progression systems being implemented.

My opinion they do this it will be equal to the SWG NGE change. Basically the end of ESO. If they nerf all vet ranks and bump everyone back to lvl 50 after almost 2 years (by the time its done) then people are going to be leaving left and right. I just dont see how they could pull that off without making most people angry.

DBG(SOE) was, and still is, incompetent, Smedley worst of all. ZOS is marginally better. That might count for something.

Varicite wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

Yeah, that is why I'd rather they not go that route.

Unfortunately, the fact is that they have given 0 details about how they wish to proceed, and the latest clarifying information that I can find on the subject simply states that they "don't know" how they are going to go about the removal.

Personally, I say just make 50 the cap.

Huh....50 is the cap already.....I don't fully understand "just make 50 the cap" as a suggestion.
You can't ignore the VR to champion system conversion

Well, I mean that when they remove VR, they don't know if they'll change it to a lv64 cap, or remove all of those levels and make us all lv50, or what. They have said this explicitly.

I am just saying that out of the options, I think that busting us all back down to lv50 would be the best solution as there are already 2 other progression systems being implemented.

Question: Do you realize the VR exp conversion into champion levels was their decision on not dropping everyone to 50?
They question they have left is....
-did we convert the exp correctly and once we remove the VR levels, will the items and level requirement follow the champion system or something else?
-how do we handle the skills and stats?

Ohh, I get what you're saying, that the CP stipend that was given to players is supposed to take into account the XP that was gained through VR levels when reverting to a flat lv50 cap.

I gotcha.

And yes, the most difficult question seems to be how to handle the loss of attributes / skill points gained through VR leveling up.

OK....
So IF you were ZOS, based on what ZOS has shared publicly and what exists in the game....what could be done to finish part 4 and what would it look like?

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

The forums represent maybe 10% of the game population. So you cant really judge by the vocal people here. Ive already stated how I feel things will go. I know you dont agree. Guess we just have to wait and see what happens.

Well Facebook, Reddit, YouTube, and any comments on TESO articles tend to cover the rest of the vocal majority so unless you feel that is only another 10% I believe people are voting with their $.

If your forums only have a few hundred participants after it goes free and the rest are a few thousand view only.......it's pretty clear where things are heading.

It's time for some action

EdIT- where did you come up with 10% ?

For example this thread has 4800 views. There is what figure around 250,000 people or so to upwards of 1 million people playing? Thats not even 1% that bothered to look.

I think you guys might be the bubble. Like I said before Ive never talked to even one person in the game who said "Man you know I hate this VR stuff.". In the game 10s of 1000s of us are happily playing. I just hit VR11 on my nightblade.

JD2013 wrote: »

Won't be gone until X amount of time after the console release.

But there again I do have a question about this. Why do people so badly want them gone?

You'll still be going through gold and silver. Just without veteran levels.

What is an MMO without progression? If everyone is at level 50, aside from champion points, what is the point of going through new content (as it won't be a progression)

Without new levels to attain, except champion points everyone will be the same, and even they have a cap.

its only progression the first time you do it then it becomes repetition. at best its repeated progression which is pretty much a contradiction in terms.

how many folk would play alts if you had to earn champions points on each individually?

pvp is already a big turn off for alts, due to the insane time committment to get the alliance 10 stuff. to me it should be account wide the same as champion points.

If its everyone why is it there are only about 400 total replies to this topic and most of those from three people.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

If its everyone why is it there are only about 400 total replies to this topic and most of those from three people.

grats on VR11 and have u noticed not a single ZOS commented on any topic related to this sort of thing? because it aint happening.. lol

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

If its everyone why is it there are only about 400 total replies to this topic and most of those from three people.

Because they have:
1 already quit
2 posting in the 13 other threads about this
3 posting on redditt
4 don't care because they will be quitting

Edit- AND you definitely didn't check out Google or the links
The VR removal is an overwhelming desire....less oppose it than those who support it.

Im just curious how you know this. I know you linked a bunch of articles but what about the people actually playing the game? If they have al;ready quit or will quit soon then why worry about what they want. Worry about what your customers like myself who have paid every month since launch and will continue to pay want.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

If its everyone why is it there are only about 400 total replies to this topic and most of those from three people.

Because they have:
1 already quit
2 posting in the 13 other threads about this
3 posting on redditt
4 don't care because they will be quitting

Edit- AND you definitely didn't check out Google or the links
The VR removal is an overwhelming desire....less oppose it than those who support it.

Im just curious how you know this. I know you linked a bunch of articles but what about the people actually playing the game? If they have al;ready quit or will quit soon then why worry about what they want. Worry about what your customers like myself who have paid every month since launch and will continue to pay.

Part of my job is to gather info for 45 different states and consolidate that info into tables, spreadsheets and do presentations on them...the other job is working for a sports team that is kinda a big deal and I do a similar thing for the entertainment for hundreds of thousands of fans weekly (my day jobs)...it's not hard to do the same here as I've been around since 2013 closed BETA

All that to say, I pay very close attention to a few topics. One is the VR topic
The customers they are worried about they pissed off...they need to get them back

Let's also look at all the cancelled TESO console pre orders...this is catering to paying customers vs customers who are playing for free. Some sub but most don't.

The old forums are gone which is where a lot of the VR started and a lot of people were upset. Then just before release ZOS changed the add-on rules so a lot of people never went live.
Then you have the guild summit which some of that info is public...some is not.
You have non ZOS stuff where I'm really invested in the console and test and provide feedback on all kinds of pre release software.

There are lots of voices that are a lot more important than mine who are dictating a Destiny-like endgame experience and then there are others with just as a strong voice pushing F2P and WoW like experiences.

This game was suppose to be a console hit! It was expected to be good on PC but not a hit.
The developers realized they couldn't release on console so they began changing things in BETA.

The game use to be very challenging even at level 5-20.
Prior to VR you would hit 50 and then go off to war.
This concept worked, except people strongly said...hey it's a MMO so there has to be endgame PvE too.
The PvP had a progression system and emperor concept and rewards. A lot of time was spent there.
ZOS neglected to get Craglorn ready and then missed focused on console and lost 12+ months

So if the game had released as intended it would be an incredibly challenging (hard but not impossible) 1-50 PvE with a 40-50 PvP at war concept. Craglorn would have been the post 50 PvE that began at 50 with no VR levels or champion levels.
PvP had a progression system but it didn't affect PvE which was good.

So you see...the company in 2013 started missing milestones and in order to offset the costs of producing the game through more delays (remember this was going to be a ps4/Xbox one launch title in 2013) we began seeing things added to slow down people progression so that they had time to release content.

Well someone a overwhelming request to play other factions became OH...let's do the PvP thing with PvE and create VR levels. Well they were added, and then monthly they added more and more VR levels and slowed exp gains more and more And this continued through closed beta to open beta and then into release on PC.

Then when they finally admitted the console version wasn't near close to release they added more VR levels and changed exp eve more.

VR levels are not suppose to be here.
Silver and gold quests are only suppose to be quests but no levels were to be gained or skills or shards.
Well they couldn't just delete all the silver n gold quests and so they came up with champion levels.
Instead of working on the dark brotherhood and other guild storylines and dlc we got justice and champion systems.

In the end....it's a big mess that points back to rushing out the game which cause VR when that should have never been added. What's funny is the closed BETA people pushed for paragon levels which is from Diablo 3. It was shot down and VR levels came to be. Now they are going back to what people wanted vs what ZOS wanted in order to slow down progression while they worked on content and bugs and console.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Well Ill say this and let it be my final comment. I wish Zenimax to stop with the revamps every update. Stop. Put out zones and stuff people want to buy. I for one and I am sure many others are sick of your constant redoing of the entire game. Enough already. If you had simply put out new zones to begin with none of this would have happened. Stop listening to people who dont play the game. Who wont spend money even if they do play it and even tho they are roughly 10% of the population they tie up 90% of the development resources.

What is needed is other things to do. Not yet another revamp that inevitably a bunch of people will be upset about any way you do it. At least with vet ranks left in place you dont have to develop an entirely new system.

Ya so anyways thats all I have to say about that.

I want Zenimax to finish the Champion System implementation as planned and then add new content to the game, as it will be far more palatable for a much larger player base in that form.

HungryHobo wrote: »

Could they tie VR ranks to something other than XP? a combination of quest completion % / battle achievements / spelunking?

Every progression system in the game is tied to some sort of xp... and the sources of those xp are the same, its is a condensed CP grind, or CP is like an expanded VR Grind... Could VR become something like the undaunted guild, but more encompassing to the entire gameplay experience? It only makes sense in regards to its name "Veteran Ranks"...

With that said, VR 14 gear shouldn't be 40% stronger than VR1 gear either.. bring the difference down so its noticeable and doesn't invalidate the people who have 6 VR14 players, but not game breaking so V1's aren't shunned at first sight.. like 10%? (Random Numbers here..)

^ Don't do this. Not at all. No matter what the numbers are, there's no way this can be done in a way that is good for the game. I don't even have any really good gear, and am not at cap, and I can see this.