Harrassment Already A Larger Problem

Naor_Sarethi · April 2015

There definitively needs to be a private space where only you and your friends/ group can go.
Something along the lines of player housing but also instanced areas, not just for the purpose of housing but also RP in general.
Some RP of course is deliberately made to involve random people, obviously taking into account that they may be hardcore trolls such as the dude described in op.
But for this kind of situation, GM's can't handle all the ingame chat (looking at you cyro zone chat/ flame wars) and logs all the time.
So yea. At the off chance that a relevant dev person actually takes this forum into consideration:
We do need those areas.

Valymer · April 2015

World PvP, problem solved.

Streega · April 2015

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

It sounds like the chat probably crossed the line in to trolling, but sadly, there are no rules in-game (nor should there be) to prevent people from dancing in their underwear anywhere that they like.

Oh yes, there should be no rules to stop people being asses and deliberately griefing other players .. of course not.

Your admiration of ZOS is .. admirable.

Pardon me, but you are wrong, good sir. That has nothing to do with ZOS, it's simple matter of being polite and respectful or not - and there is no law for that. You can burp in a restaurant and nobody will call the cops, however it is considered rude (in Europe at least, in China or Japan no one will even notice). I like to burp after my meal, it's good for the belly 'n stuff, but not in public places or formal familly dinner with all aunts, grandmas and uncles.
Sometimes we are fooling around and dance naked with my fellow guildies after the guild raid, but I would never do it in the RP gathering or even in the centre of Davon's Watch just like that for no reason. But you can't forbid people to behave stupid in a MMO. Well, at least until it's not stalking or really rude.

Anyway, RP instances would be great, and would allow more strict rules: when you enter you go with the flow or GTFO, no excuse.

MornaBaine · April 2015

Valymer wrote: »

World PvP, problem solved.

LOL I came from an open world PvP roleplaying server. As often as I got ganked and griefed it was TOTALLY WORTH IT. We'd get some (insert sure to be censored descriptive here) trolling the roleplayers in the taverns...and I'd quietly hire an assassin guild to follow them around and slaughter them mercilessly over and over, each time screenshotting their corpse with the message in chat of, "Your death brought to you by roleplayers." If they were truly offensive I'd make sure they could not accomplish a single objective. Ah, how I miss that.

Ysne58 · April 2015

I'm sorry that happened to you.

Robo_Hobo · April 2015

That would be pretty cool if putting someone on ignore hid them entirely. That'd pretty much be an end to the problems right there, though I wonder how feasible that would be from the technical side.

MornaBaine · April 2015

Ysne58 wrote: »

I'm sorry that happened to you.

Thank you. It wasn't the end of the world and I certainly didn't lose any sleep over it though. The sad truth is that there really are just an awful lot of scummy people in the world. That isn't going to change. Nor was it the point of my post. The point is to highlight that ZOS bears some responsibility for dealing with this sort of thing and they bear the responsibility for putting the tools into player hands so that we do not HAVE to put up with this kind of nonsense.

Samadhi · April 2015

MornaBaine wrote: »

We shouldn't have to play unpaid shrink to people who are clearly suffering from antisocial personality disorders in the game. ...

Just to put this out there, due to comprehending that you are upset and knowing you generally as a good person: Could you please refrain from comments like this in the future?

Personally deal with antisocial personality disorder, mild psychopathy, and major anxiety issues. Have spent several years in psychiatric care and spiritual pursuit to try and mitigate the negative impacts these conditions have on my life and social well-being.

Can agree that the person who mistreated your group was a jerk, and that there needs to be be proper recourse for dealing with such people; however, the type of person you (not just you, many players, but respect you enough to be able to address you about it) insult by informally "diagnosing" such jerks with legitimate mental health conditions is not the jerk themselves -- the people such comments hurts are those who suffer from mental health issues who feel further socially ostracized.

Totally feel for you with regards to what you had to deal with, but also consider you above this sort of casual (more than likely unintentional) disrespect.
Please do not let garbage individuals drag you to their level of disrespect due to their negative impact on your day.

MornaBaine · April 2015

Robo_Hobo wrote: »

That would be pretty cool if putting someone on ignore hid them entirely. That'd pretty much be an end to the problems right there, though I wonder how feasible that would be from the technical side.

I can't claim to KNOW that answer (any more than I can figure out why they put the weather client side instead of server side so that 2 characters standing right next to each other experience different weather) but the more I think about it the more it seems to me that it should be pretty easy. We already have instancing where if 2 characters enter a zone where one has completed the area quest and the other has not, suddenly they will no longer see each other. I don't think it would be an insurmountable difficulty to attach this to the /ignore function.

joshisanonymous · April 2015

I'm fairly certain that ignoring someone will do exactly what every is suggesting would be such an awesome solution, just not instantly. We still get phased with people depending on a number of variables, even if there's no questionnaire used. Only so many people can be in a zone before another phase opens up, at which point it prioritizes things like putting you in the same phase as guildmates and such. I'm fairly certain that /ignore fits into this prioritization. The only issue would be that zones that currently only have one active phase would never put these people in a separate phase.

Keron · April 2015

Robo_Hobo wrote: »

That would be pretty cool if putting someone on ignore hid them entirely. That'd pretty much be an end to the problems right there, though I wonder how feasible that would be from the technical side.

Imagine that with someone who has an alt in the same campaign as you but on another faction. Since ignore is account-wide, you'd possibly be killed by the "invisible backdoor (the other word is banned)"... Talk about payback being a purchase-able woman...

ZOS_AlanG · April 2015

There have been a few debates recently about how problematic something needs to be before it’s reported. But the answer is simple, if you find something offensive or harassing, report it.

It’s true that some of the reports we get in-game (and on the forums) are determined to not break the rules, and are closed without action. However, these determinations are quick to make, and we’d rather have a few unnecessary reports than find out people aren’t reporting content that should be – particularly in-game.

There are two ways to report bad behavior in-game. For chat, right click on the offensive content in the chat window and choose the report option. If someone isn’t in chat, look at them and open the “interact” wheel – one of the options is “report player.”

On the forums, there’s a report button on the bottom right of every post that shows up when you hover your cursor there.

MornaBaine · April 2015

From the other, now closed thread:

admin
The thread is currently open. It was sunk for a moment while some content was being cleaned up, we'll investigate why it was locked as well. As the thread is open, we're locking this one.

If that thread had been intentionally locked, posting a new thread on the subject would be against the forum rules. If you have questions about moderation, please PM us rather than posting a thread.
Edited by ZOS_AlanG on April 1, 2015 10:33AM

Thank you! Although I kept the title there I did not think I was running afoul of the rules as, instead of repost, I simply asked for the implementation of one of the possible solutions to this problem that came up in this (at the time locked) thread. That being, the ability to add phasing to the /ignore function so that not only the offending player's chat disappears but their character does also. So it's as if, to you at least, that player does not exist. This would definitely eliminate all complaints of trolling and player harassment and would no longer require GM attention so that they could instead focus on game play related issues, because that i certainly my preference as well. I don't want them to have to spend their time babysitting where there are tools to be had that would make it so they don't need to. I love the GMs I've encountered in this game and I'd like to see their lives made easier if possible. And I think it IS possible.

BBSooner · April 2015

As I posted in the other thread: I agree with the proposed solution that having ignore effect what phase your character is in for PvE is my preference. It solves the problem without placing a burden on the GMs, and without creating stricter rules for player behavior. Players can choose for themselves if they want to associate themselves with a particular behavior.

It would give ZOS the ability to say "we did something for the RP community" while still implementing something that benefits everybody.

Audigy · April 2015

Just a thought about the ignore thing.

If players could phase out from others, then this would offer them unlimited mobs and resources. Just ignore everyone and you will play all alone

This seems a bit exploitable to me.

Roechacca · April 2015

ZOS_AlanG wrote: »

There have been a few debates recently about how problematic something needs to be before it’s reported. But the answer is simple, if you find something offensive or harassing, report it.

It’s true that some of the reports we get in-game (and on the forums) are determined to not break the rules, and are closed without action. However, these determinations are quick to make, and we’d rather have a few unnecessary reports than find out people aren’t reporting content that should be – particularly in-game.

There are two ways to report bad behavior in-game. For chat, right click on the offensive content in the chat window and choose the report option. If someone isn’t in chat, look at them and open the “interact” wheel – one of the options is “report player.”

On the forums, there’s a report button on the bottom right of every post that shows up when you hover your cursor there.

How do I report a bad moderator ?

brace-your-selves-the-april-fools-pranks-are-coming.jpg

istateres · April 2015

Sinbaar wrote: »

I dont get why people are doing things like this. I mean, i dont like roleplaying either but it would never come to my mind to disturb and ruin their event. I even apologize everytime when i run accidentaly in a rp event, standing like a cow in the middle of the group with a furious mudcrab attacking me.

I can totally understand,that more gms are needed. Because i really dont get why people play this game when they are just there to disturb other players

That's because you don't understand evil. Certain people enjoy griefing others, both in and out of game. This kind of behavior in game should have consequences, but only the most obvious cases.

MornaBaine · April 2015

Audigy wrote: »

Just a thought about the ignore thing.

If players could phase out from others, then this would offer them unlimited mobs and resources. Just ignore everyone and you will play all alone

This seems a bit exploitable to me.

Valid point. I wonder how the games that DO have this functionality handle the issue?

Nightscar · April 2015

Audigy wrote: »

Our world is a mirror of ourselves. It has become very difficult to tolerate others, also because everyone seems to think that he or she is right and everyone else wrong. This is especially a problem in the internet as humans hide behind their anonymity and can drop everything they want without feeling any consequences.
I think its quite sad, but if we check the newspapers at the morning then there isn't a day when someone decides what is right and wrong and sends his troops & threats or tries to discredit another person, nation, state or religion.

What Morna does might seem weird for some, but its her right to moan the death of another character or make all those vampire threads

The underwear Mafia however, exists since release and this has nothing to do with the current F2P mechanism. Its our society who is to blame, no matter how many social Organisation, GM´s we have, we can not change humanity

Don't let it go to your heart Morna, I stopped caring about these people a long time ago.

+1 to you sir
I am not an RP'er but i do agree with you.. Society as a whole has gotten worse kids get away with murder now adays with no consequences, in turn they have little to no respect for anyone or anything.
The new generation or "self entitled" generation as I like to call them will just get worse until a boiling point is reach.
I think and hope a lot of them will move over to cosoles and leave the older crowd to PC's.

Keron · April 2015

@Audigy
Don't misunderstand me, I very much agree with what you have written, but that little piece here

Audigy wrote: »

...What Morna does might seem weird for some, but its her right to moan the death of another character or make all those vampire threads

made me laugh a bit. You should change it to the intended "mourn". That one gives a completely wrong impression to the casual reader

(moan = stöhnen, mourn = betrauern)

Nermy · April 2015

Just wanna add my voice in support of the OP. No body should be trolled in this game, no matter what.

I'm glad that ZOS have said that they are happy to have reports made, even if they deem them to not need any action. It means their always going to be open-minded (hopefully) about complaints.

I'd like to think we're all reasonable people but that is far from true, which makes me sad.

You know, if there was open world PvP I would defend your right to RP by bashing them over the head, even though I don't RP...

Have fun and good luck guys...

Iluvrien · April 2015

michaelpatterson wrote: »

istateres wrote: »

Sinbaar wrote: »

I dont get why people are doing things like this. I mean, i dont like roleplaying either but it would never come to my mind to disturb and ruin their event. I even apologize everytime when i run accidentaly in a rp event, standing like a cow in the middle of the group with a furious mudcrab attacking me.

I can totally understand,that more gms are needed. Because i really dont get why people play this game when they are just there to disturb other players

That's because you don't understand evil. Certain people enjoy griefing others, both in and out of game. This kind of behavior in game should have consequences, but only the most obvious cases.

[...]

And the masked swearwords in /say? The spamming of weapon blocks while wearing a wedding dress after moving so they are clipping through your character? The dragging groups of mobs from a significant distance to engage your group?

...yep, all of those sound like innocent curiosity to me. *sigh*

[Moderator Note: Removed moderated quote]

Obscure · April 2015

How ironic. ZOS literally had a design concept EXPRESSLY intended to keep players with other players like them and avoid players that they don't want to be around...

"Players will fill out a questionnaire that describes their own preferred playstyle to assist the megaserver in allocating similar players to their game space. You can specify preferences for roleplaying, age groups, and degree of socialization." (source)

Must've left it in the same pants they had the Dark Brotherhood and Thieves Guild in that they accidentally threw into the washing machine. Oops! Guess it's easier to deal with trolls via support tickets and be reactive to these issues instead if being proactive. But I digress...

At Zenimax they're good enough to have the foresight, but not good enough to follow through. I haven't RPed in a online game in years (I'm the type that prefers to do it on the table =P), I frankly don't like it, but generally those that do tend to be the most zealously defensive of the game(s) they RP in. I think ZOS knows that; those are the fans that will stick with this game a decade from now, long after most others have moved on, regardless of how well combat is balanced, regardless of how much end game content there is, regardless of bugs infesting varied game mechanics, it doesn't matter to those social creatures.

Suffice it to say, a community is best judged not in how it treats the majority, but how it treats the minority. ZOS has done plenty in trying to support them, but there's just no getting around the fact they just can't do it well enough.

@ZOS revive your mega server assist questionnaire. The time it'll take will pay for itself when those GM support requests for things like the OP's issue vanish. It's a stupid problem to have in a server architecture as advanced as ESO's. You literally know better.

Ashigaru · April 2015

ZOS_AlanG wrote: »

There have been a few debates recently about how problematic something needs to be before it’s reported. But the answer is simple, if you find something offensive or harassing, report it.

It’s true that some of the reports we get in-game (and on the forums) are determined to not break the rules, and are closed without action. However, these determinations are quick to make, and we’d rather have a few unnecessary reports than find out people aren’t reporting content that should be – particularly in-game.

There are two ways to report bad behavior in-game. For chat, right click on the offensive content in the chat window and choose the report option. If someone isn’t in chat, look at them and open the “interact” wheel – one of the options is “report player.”

On the forums, there’s a report button on the bottom right of every post that shows up when you hover your cursor there.

The bold part troubles me, if a player reports something do you not think at that point in time it is problematic enough for you the company to take a look at it. From what i am reading from your statement is that instead of following up on reports or such, you moderate the reports and pick and choose which ones to follow up on instead of following up on everything. That actually answers a lot of questions for me from previous reports that i never heard anything about, it was as if they had just poofed.......

phreatophile · April 2015

I think instancing, weather an instanced zone/area for just your group so you cannot be bothered, or an ignore feature that simply instances the offending player away from you is the best solution.

The only other viable option I see would be to RP in Cyrodil and deal with a funeral crasher in whatever way seems appropiate. Though, in Cyrodil you would likely only be Trolled by a same faction player, so maybe have an informal "mutual aid" agreement with some RPers in the other factions. Not an RPer myself, my EP character is only VR6, and I'm not much of a PVPer, but I could probably take on a naked dancing troll. Though a battle in the middle of a funeral would probably be even more disruptive, depends on the funeral I suppose. It would seem totaly appropriete at a Nord's funeral.

Sinbaar wrote: »

I dont get why people are doing things like this. I mean, i dont like roleplaying either but it would never come to my mind to disturb and ruin their event. I even apologize everytime when i run accidentaly in a rp event, standing like a cow in the middle of the group with a furious mudcrab attacking me.

I can totally understand,that more gms are needed. Because i really dont get why people play this game when they are just there to disturb other players

istateres wrote: »

That's because you don't understand evil. Certain people enjoy griefing others, both in and out of game. This kind of behavior in game should have consequences, but only the most obvious cases.

It's hard for someone who takes no delight in hurting others to understand. Think of whatever gives you joy in game and realize thats how these 'people' get their fun. We're dealing with bullies hiding behind a total lack of consequences which means they're cowards as well.

Jeremy · April 2015

timidobserver wrote: »

If someone sends offensive messages that needs to be stopped immediately, but im not in support of policing where players can stand and what they can wear.

If someone is sending you offensive messages just put them on ignore. The problem is instantly solved. There is no need for GMs to get involved to put a stop to it. Players can do it themselves easily.

As to your second point: I agree. If someone wants to dress in their underwear and dance during a funeral they should be able to. I'm not going to support GMs policing our behavior to safeguard role-players from ridicule. There is something everyone does that offends someone. The players dancing in their underwear could just as easily claim that the role-playing event was annoying them and that action should be taken against the Role-Players.

GMs should be there to fix legitimate problems with the game. I don't think their role should be to tell us how we are suppose to dress or where we can do emotes; what we can or cannot make fun of. No thanks. I rather not Tamriel be turned into a police state.

uso245 · April 2015

FadedJeans wrote: »

On one hand, it leaves you less exposed so you suffer less the mockery of fools.

On the other hand, it leaves you less exposed so people who might be drawn to RP are denied the opportunity to discover you serendipitously.

Too bad you can't just add another player to an ignore list that phases them out of your instance or simply removes them from your sight and chat.

I would have to agree with this statement. I myself have always been intrigued by RP however the only groups/guilds I have seen doing anything in the open is usually closed off guild requiring "past experience" of RP'ing. So of course sometimes I will see a group and I'll try to "become part" of the event going on (not in a *** way, but actually participate) but because I am not in the guild it is hard to get involved when you are simply brushed off by others. I have recently seen some new guilds post in zone that they are RP guilds so I'll see if I can try my luck there. Also I'm sure all RP'er know but there is an addon that shows character names instead of @names that I used before that I found was an amazing feature for more immersion.

newtinmpls · April 2015

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Policing in-game chat is fine, but policing in-game dancing? It's just completely impractical and pointless. How do you determine when it's fine to dance around in your underwear and when it becomes trolling? What about using the mystery meat to vomit in front of people? Or running around in a goblin costume? Where do we draw the line?.

Do you really expect anyone to believe that you cannot ... truly cannot ... tell the difference between "acting weird" and deliberately attempting to sabotage someone else's enjoyment of the game?

Its not "what was done". it's context. Disrespect. Pattern. Does that really truly not make sense to you?

Grao · April 2015

As someone that enjoys roleplaying (but haven't yet tried it on ESO specially because of trolls), I give you my full support, @MornaBaine. It would be great if muting someone indeed made their character, not only their chat invisible. It would also be amazing if there was a RP channel where you can emote and not be as easily disturbed by other chats.

As for the presence of GMs in ESO. Seems they increase moderation on their forum, but not in the game. It is sad.

Sighlynce · April 2015

Valymer wrote: »

World PvP, problem solved.

May have a point , not world pvp but there are places in Cyrodiil that would be ideal for y'all. Either of the gated areas would be perfect. People only go there to empty rewards/bank or get quests to pass a long to their group other than that the place is empty. They have a tavern and really anything else you would need and little to no danger of getting attacked. (Just don't leave the gated area

) Check it out !

EDIT;
Thought about it, maybe not an answer. If y'all have a big group it would cut down on the amount of people that particular alliance would have for pvp, so not a solution.

I hope y'all find one though.