Harrassment Already A Larger Problem

MornaBaine

I don't much care if you think roleplaying is stupid or you just don't get it. There is a sizable group of roleplayers in ESO and ZOS has repeatedly stated that they support this. I've seen GMs in the past show up to remove players who were trolling an RP event. And when I myself am getting trolled for roleplaying I will ask people once, politely, to stop. And sometimes what they are doing IS pretty funny and we all get a laugh out of it and then they move on and everything is fine. So it's not that I'm all that thin skinned. Yet despite warnings that player harassment of other players WOULD get worse with the switch to B2P ZOS seems not to have felt that greater GM presence is warranted. Nor have they taken any other steps to reduce harassment.

Last night members of my guild held an in-character funeral for another player character. Were we truly sad or upset? Not at all. It was just part of a story arc that has been going on in our guild for some time. So no, I'm not about to cry about some mean disrespectful person daring to dishonor our pixel dead. LOL The context of the roleplay isn't all that import, what is, is that we instantly had a guy dancing in his perma-underwear in our faces throughout the event and bragging about how he "loves to do this to roleplayers" who are, of course, "ridiculous" and "stupid." So while he was providing me with ample fodder I was reporting him with screenshots. But unlike past events, and believe me, this went on for quite awhile, no GM showed up to deal with the problem. Indeed at one point we thought he had finally gotten bored and gone away but nope, he had just gone to get some friends to join his little party. Further shenanigans ensured and were also reported with screenshots. FINALLY they did get bored and wander off. Probably because the entire event was held in group chat rather than spatial /emote or /say exactly so as to give less food to the trolls.

About an hour later a GM did contact me, apologized for not being able to do anything about the incident while it was happening, and was very professional and polite. I have absolutely NO beef with this GM. He or she was great. I also believed them when they said they'd go over the logs. And while they, of course, cannot tell me what, if any, action they will take against that player I am nevertheless fairly certain he'll receive some form of censure. Sadly, none of that changes the fact that this jerk was allowed to pretty much ruin what would otherwise have been a cool event.

THIS is why we need more GMs, player and guild housing, and empty instances of places you can take groups into. Any ONE of those things would come close to eliminating the problem of the continual player harassment that goes on in this game and that is made possible by the fact that any bratty twelve year old can now play this game by just badgering mom and dad once rather than on a monthly basis. We told you this would happen ZOS. I'd kind of like to know what your plans are for dealing with it.

Addendum: I've also been informed that there ARE games where placing a character on ignore will not only remove their chat, it will remove the character themselves from your view and it will be, to you, as if they no longer exist. This would be AMAZING. Please ZOS, I am begging you, figure out how to do this and implement it ASAP.

Further Addendum: ... There is nothing "fictional" about players harassing and cyber-bullying other players. Nor are the players engaging in that kind of disruptive and oftentimes outright hateful behavior in any way engaging in roleplaying. Further, while roleplayers are OFTEN victims of such player harassment, the fact remains that these "bad actors" do not "just" confine themselves to hunting down RP events to grief but often engage in harassment of other players in many other contexts as well. This post is NOT about roleplaying. It IS about player harassment and the request for ZOS to provide ALL players with the tools to deal with this on their own rather than relying on GMs who are being rendered ineffectual due to being stretched too thin.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Discussing Moderation Actions]

AlienSlof

+1 this.

Why people can't live and let live, is beyond my understanding.

Sadly, most of my RP'ing is done in my head as I'm most often alone, while buddies are away at work/school/uni, etc.

Messy1

Since B2P happened the incidents of trolls and harassments has increased. Lots of RPers are becoming the butt ends of zone chat jokes and frankly people are using the ERP stereotype on a lot of RPers.

I second the OPs suggestions. Guild housing or guild specific instances would be nice. Also, it would be cool to interact with tables and chairs and beds around Tamriel.

Sacadon

RP is certainly not my thing, but I think the game is better for it supporting a wider range of play styles. And regardless, players should be respectful, plain and simple. It doesn't mean everyone has to be all straight and boring... I enjoy stirring the pot as well for time to time. But it sounds like this player should've at least done his/her thing and moved on.

nerevarine1138

It sounds like the chat probably crossed the line in to trolling, but sadly, there are no rules in-game (nor should there be) to prevent people from dancing in their underwear anywhere that they like.

civilizedsavage

I feel for you, and it seems like you actually got a better response than I ever have received in the year I've been playing. I put in reports the first maybe two dozen times, with screenshots of me asking them to GTFO, (except very politely - truncating for forums, you know), and after the same form response telling me to put the person on ignore (like I don't know that) I gave up hope.

Player housing, yeah...best case scenario. Solver of most RP'ers problems.

They know we want it, but no response except the generic, "Oh, that would be cool, but no immediate plans." If the DLC is instanced to a small-large group we'll be lucky...kind of holding my breath for that. I used to RP in some of the 4-man dungeons, but they are limited to 4 (wo)man so that's a problem...and then you have to fight through portions of them and do scaling...so much frustration, I know.

Really small changes would go a long way in the interim between now and player housing like...make an instance without mobs that we can spend some time in and can accommodate large groups.

Sorry you got trolled. I hope they can figure this out, because I am really a starting to think they underestimate their RP player base.


grammar edit.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

It sounds like the chat probably crossed the line in to trolling, but sadly, there are no rules in-game (nor should there be) to prevent people from dancing in their underwear anywhere that they like.

Oh yes, there should be no rules to stop people being asses and deliberately griefing other players .. of course not.

Your admiration of ZOS is .. admirable.

FadedJeans

On one hand, it leaves you less exposed so you suffer less the mockery of fools.

On the other hand, it leaves you less exposed so people who might be drawn to RP are denied the opportunity to discover you serendipitously.

Too bad you can't just add another player to an ignore list that phases them out of your instance or simply removes them from your sight and chat.

nerevarine1138

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

It sounds like the chat probably crossed the line in to trolling, but sadly, there are no rules in-game (nor should there be) to prevent people from dancing in their underwear anywhere that they like.

Oh yes, there should be no rules to stop people being asses and deliberately griefing other players .. of course not.

Your admiration of ZOS is .. admirable.

Nothing to do with admiration for this particular company. Policing in-game chat is fine, but policing in-game dancing? It's just completely impractical and pointless. How do you determine when it's fine to dance around in your underwear and when it becomes trolling? What about using the mystery meat to vomit in front of people? Or running around in a goblin costume? Where do we draw the line?

Unless ZO is prepared to cordon off specific areas for RP events (a terrible idea), then the presence of people who aren't taking part in the event is a given. And since those people aren't taking part, it's ludicrous for RPers to expect their behavior to be regulated any more strictly than it would be elsewhere.

Sinbaar

I dont get why people are doing things like this. I mean, i dont like roleplaying either but it would never come to my mind to disturb and ruin their event. I even apologize everytime when i run accidentaly in a rp event, standing like a cow in the middle of the group with a furious mudcrab attacking me.

I can totally understand,that more gms are needed. Bevause i really dont get why people play this game when they are just there to disturb other players

bellanca6561n

When the game moves beyond release - the phase it's still in - to refine then I expect we'll see Event Managers with tools at their command to make good use of the sophisticated instancing technology of these megaservers.

Player housing would be nice but not the answer in my view. Roleplayers should be able to roleplay in the game's signature locations. For this you need three tools:

1. Create instance.

2. Invite to instance.

3. Remove from instance.

And not just for roleplayers either. Set piece battles and other special events of more sorts than most of us can imagine - because nobody should dare either predict nor limit the power of player imagination much less its role in creating fresh, memorable content.

Sorry this happened to you, MornaBaine

Rune_Relic

What if ignore didn't just remove the chat....but completely removed the player from appearing on your client ?
After all its their actions that are causing the grief just as much as the chat.

I really don't know how possible that would be...obviously wouldnt work in PVP.
But for PVE I cant see it being much of a problem.

Aeladiir

civilizedsavage wrote: »

Player housing, yeah...best case scenario. Solver of most RP'ers problems.

They know we want it, but no response except the generic, "Oh, that would be cool, but no immediate plans."
grammar edit.

PvP arena? Oh, that would be cool, no immediate plans, though.

PvP for justice system? Oh, we were thinking about that, it would be cool. No plans at the moment, though.

Listening to the majority of people who don't want p2w items in crown store? Oh, that would be cool, but no immediate plans, though.

Releasing all the "ALREADY FINISHED" DLCs as it was promised? Oh, that would be cool, no immediate plans, though.

Implementing some of the most important Add-Ons into the game to make our UI better? Oh, that would be cool, no immediate plans, though.

Fixing the lag in Cyrodiil? Uh, oh, that would be cool. No immediate plans, though, so we'll just decrease the player cap.

Horse racing? OH, we mentioned that about two weeks after release, right? Uh, no immediate plans, though.

civilizedsavage

We have to draw the line somewhere. Things have gotten even slimmer since the first half of the probably only half of the justice system that's locked RP'ers out of a great portion of the homes in Tamriel.

Just give us uninterruptable (instanced) places to RP and everyone will be happy. I'll come home from my Cyrodiliic crusades and get my freak on and no one has to be bothered by it. Problem solved.

Audigy

Our world is a mirror of ourselves. It has become very difficult to tolerate others, also because everyone seems to think that he or she is right and everyone else wrong. This is especially a problem in the internet as humans hide behind their anonymity and can drop everything they want without feeling any consequences.
I think its quite sad, but if we check the newspapers at the morning then there isn't a day when someone decides what is right and wrong and sends his troops & threats or tries to discredit another person, nation, state or religion.

What Morna does might seem weird for some, but its her right to mourn the death of another character or make all those vampire threads

The underwear Mafia however, exists since release and this has nothing to do with the current F2P mechanism. Its our society who is to blame, no matter how many social Organisation, GM´s we have, we can not change humanity

Don't let it go to your heart Morna, I stopped caring about these people a long time ago.

stewhead2ub17_ESO

@MornaBaine I'm sorry you had to experience such ass hattery. I'm glad a GM did contact you though and I would also be there will be some kind of punishment handed out. Unfortunately, in every mmo, as in RL, some people just lack comment courtesy and respect for others. I personally haven't noticed any real increase in moronic behavior/chat since the B2P changeover. Instances would indeed help, I suppose, but I hate the thought of RP'ers having to "go underground". I love when I inadvertently stumble across some some active RP going on. Keep it up!

Psychobunni

+1 For more GM's to root out derps and rid the game of them
or instances, or houses that are open

I don't roleplay, but Tamriel should be a place where we can escape the harsh reality and not have to deal with a-holes.

Gorthax

Rune_Relic wrote: »

What if ignore didn't just remove the chat....but completely removed the player from appearing on your client ?
After all its their actions that are causing the grief just as much as the chat.

I really don't know how possible that would be...obviously wouldnt work in PVP.
But for PVE I cant see it being much of a problem.

this is what was SUPPOSE to happen. Back when they first announced the game and its mega server there was suppose to be a little questionare you did that would decide which part of the megaserver to put you in and if someone was in said mega server that you didnt like, you could just ignore and never see or interact with said person again UNLESS it was in pvp. sadly they bailed on it

Sacadon

Would it work to group and then enter an instanced vet dungeon with lots of non-mobbed space... Like Selene's Web?

Not that you should have to... but this should work no?

alainjbrennanb16_ESO

this is what happens when it goes free to play, u get trolls children in to the game next time it happens just shout troll in ingame chat or do what my gf guild in wow did, they got the whole guild together and just followed the troll for a while, so troll the troll

MornaBaine

FadedJeans wrote: »

On one hand, it leaves you less exposed so you suffer less the mockery of fools.

On the other hand, it leaves you less exposed so people who might be drawn to RP are denied the opportunity to discover you serendipitously.

Too bad you can't just add another player to an ignore list that phases them out of your instance or simply removes them from your sight and chat.

One of my guildies actually mentioned that there ARE games where you can do exactly that. If you "ignore" another player, not only is their chat gone, THEY are gone in that you no longer see their character. I had no idea this was possible. My gods, this would be AMAZING. I am going to add this suggestion to my OP.

onlinegamer1

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

It sounds like the chat probably crossed the line in to trolling, but sadly, there are no rules in-game (nor should there be) to prevent people from dancing in their underwear anywhere that they like.

Oh yes, there should be no rules to stop people being asses and deliberately griefing other players .. of course not.

Your admiration of ZOS is .. admirable.

Nothing to do with admiration for this particular company. Policing in-game chat is fine, but policing in-game dancing? It's just completely impractical and pointless. How do you determine when it's fine to dance around in your underwear and when it becomes trolling? What about using the mystery meat to vomit in front of people? Or running around in a goblin costume? Where do we draw the line?

Unless ZO is prepared to cordon off specific areas for RP events (a terrible idea), then the presence of people who aren't taking part in the event is a given. And since those people aren't taking part, it's ludicrous for RPers to expect their behavior to be regulated any more strictly than it would be elsewhere.

+1

To add to that: there is SOME onus on the Roleplayers to find a private place to hold such elaborate events, if they don't want to be disturbed. Some ideas:
- A Dungeon (instanced, and if you stay near the start, no monsters to deal with)
- A PvP Campaign (Stay in the starting safe zone, no one is going to take time to harass you, they are too busy PvPing)
- A non-quest-related area, especially islands. (People hate to swim. Swim to a remote island without any quest objectives, you'll see no one)

I'm sure you can come up with more of your own ideas.

Majic

Keep reporting them. The GMs will catch up to them eventually.

DDuke

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

It sounds like the chat probably crossed the line in to trolling, but sadly, there are no rules in-game (nor should there be) to prevent people from dancing in their underwear anywhere that they like.

Oh yes, there should be no rules to stop people being asses and deliberately griefing other players .. of course not.

Your admiration of ZOS is .. admirable.

Nothing to do with admiration for this particular company. Policing in-game chat is fine, but policing in-game dancing? It's just completely impractical and pointless. How do you determine when it's fine to dance around in your underwear and when it becomes trolling? What about using the mystery meat to vomit in front of people? Or running around in a goblin costume? Where do we draw the line?

How do you determine when saying stupid things on the forums is trolling, and when it's fine? Where do we draw the line indeed?

Trolling is when you deliberately do things to *** people off. It's about the intention, not about what you do in game (or on the forums).

civilizedsavage

Sacadon wrote: »

Would it work to group and then enter an instanced vet dungeon with lots of non-mobbed space... Like Selene's Web?

Not that you should have to... but this should work no?

It works, but it only supports 4 players, which isn't always enough...and then there's always levels to consider when clearing the spaces to RP in. The group leader is the deciding factor for the level of the mobs, so if you want some 1 on 1 time with lowbies, for example, you may have to do some shuffling around with alts that can clear to wherever you want in the zone and it just turns into a logistic nightmare...but yes...we adapt and jump through flaming hoops to do so.

Siluen

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

How do you determine when it's fine to dance around in your underwear and when it becomes trolling? What about using the mystery meat to vomit in front of people? Or running around in a goblin costume? Where do we draw the line?

Simple, when the person dancing around naked (for example) has received the polite request to cease their actions because they are disrupting an RP event, but continue to dance around naked despite of this. At this point it has been made very clear their actions are bothersome to others and continuing to do so will be proof of their intent to troll.

bellanca6561n

And again we hear the bizarre argument, don't complain about this because there are so many more important things to fix...meaning stuff the complaint complainer is complaining about.

DDuke

They should find some way to toggle on PvP outside Cyrodiil, so you can kill the offender.

E.g. enough reports of a person -> you can attack him/her.

This should of course give no AP, and ways to avoid abuse of this system (its use for dueling or harassing people for instance) should be found first.

timidobserver

If someone sends offensive messages that needs to be stopped immediately, but im not in support of policing where players can stand and what they can wear.

Samadhi

This is exactly the sort of behaviour that inhibits me from participating in roleplaying events.

My respect goes out to you @MornaBaine for keeping your cool and seeking only adequate support from GMs.

Personally just going to stick to PvP. There is the occasional incidence of poor sportsmanship, but no one goes out of his or her way to try and obstruct my playtime (and if they do, normally just kill them and then block their angry whispers).

MornaBaine

We shouldn't have to play unpaid shrink to people who are clearly suffering from antisocial personality disorders in the game. This is where we go to have fun and relax. Nor do I expect ZOS to hire an army of GMs to spank them. What I DO expect is that, as a matter of simple customer service, ZOS will take the necessary steps they are in fact capable of to eliminate or at least drastically reduce this problem. As badly as I want guild cities and player housing, I'd be even more thrilled to have /ignore simply remove an offensive player from my sight as well as my chat screen. Now that I know this is possible I don't understand why it isn't a standard feature on ALL games.