Harrassment Already A Larger Problem

Jeremy

phreatophile wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

But It is insignificant in this context.

We are not talking about a bully physically beating someone up. These are pixels you can place on ignore. There is no real bullying happening: and to call it as such makes light of actual bullying.

Not sure where you've been, but pixels is where the action is these days with bullying. Real physical bullying, even between minors, can land the bully in lasting legal trouble. Risk isn't in the bully's profile. In this situation, the bully can get their sociopathic thrill anonymously with no fear of their victim ever turning the tables like they can in real life.

Besides, if placing the churl on ignore made them invisible, the problem would be solved. It doesn't work that way. Right now, placing the troll on ignore just deprives one of the evidence needed to make a full report to the GMs.

If you had ever actually been physically bullied by someone before: you would know how ridiculous it is to try and compare that to watching a video game elf dance in their underwear. They aren't even in the same universe.

Their chat can be ignored and video game emotes just aren't an effective way to bully someone. Not unless this person is so fragile they need not be on the internet at all.

phreatophile

Jeremy wrote: »

If you had ever actually been physically bullied by someone before: you would know how ridiculous it is to try and compare that to watching a video game elf dance in their underwear. They aren't even in the same universe.

Their chat can be ignored and video game emotes just aren't an effective way to bully someone. Not unless this person is so fragile they need not be on the internet at all.

I spent most of my youth being physically and verbally bullied. It made me more not less apt to defend others once I grew up enough to be less of a target. I don't actually have much skin in this one other than that. Wouldn't know it by how much I've posted, I guess. It really gets me when somebody sets out to hurt another, even more when they are called out for it and act innocent and incredulous.



You are correct, they aren't the same thing by a long shot. Still doesn't make the lesser version OK.

Krist

Jeremy wrote: »

Describing pixelated characters dancing in their underwear as abusing other players is a bit of stretch.

My point is that players dancing in their underwear may annoy you while players speaking fruity medieval speech and having pretend funerals annoys them.

Sorry, I have to ask.

Why are people playing a game based on a medieval type setting if it annoys them?

There has been very much time and effort put into this game concerning the story line and the actual feel of the lands. The game is self described as an MMORPG. I know some of those big letters stand for role play, however, not one stands for dance around in undies until everyone is upset.
You can put roses on a cow pie and tell us it is an "arrangement", but we still know what is underneath.

The issue still stands, there is no doubt these people are griefers. So how does one handle them? I say report them, let the system work it out *it isn't full f2p so they will still be hindered by account breeches*.

Having played these games for 20 years and having admined one, I am not particularly for a techno fix if we can find another. Those always tend to develop further unintended problems, which may be why they did not implement it to begin with.

Jeremy

phreatophile wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

If you had ever actually been physically bullied by someone before: you would know how ridiculous it is to try and compare that to watching a video game elf dance in their underwear. They aren't even in the same universe.

Their chat can be ignored and video game emotes just aren't an effective way to bully someone. Not unless this person is so fragile they need not be on the internet at all.

I spent most of my youth being physically and verbally bullied. It made me more not less apt to defend others once I grew up enough to be less of a target. I don't actually have much skin in this one other than that. Wouldn't know it by how much I've posted, I guess. It really gets me when somebody sets out to hurt another, even more when they are called out for it and act innocent and incredulous.



You are correct, they aren't the same thing by a long shot. Still doesn't make the lesser version OK.

I'm glad we have established that and found some common ground then.

Where we disagree is you see the use of emotes as a lesser version of bullying. I simply see it as playing the game - or to coin a popular phrase in his thread - as role playing.

IN other words: I see no difference in a character dancing around in his or her underwear while in town and then another player using other emotes to perform a funeral. It's basically the same thing.

Offensive chat can be placed on ignore so that's only an issue if you choose to let it be.

Jeremy

Krist wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Describing pixelated characters dancing in their underwear as abusing other players is a bit of stretch.

My point is that players dancing in their underwear may annoy you while players speaking fruity medieval speech and having pretend funerals annoys them.

Sorry, I have to ask.

Why are people playing a game based on a medieval type setting if it annoys them?
.

I have only to say that the characters on this game are far better acted and written than many of these so-called role players I have ran across. So I wouldn't say they reflect the setting of this game.

But the more relevant point I was trying to make is that being a so-called role-player doesn't mean you are therefore touched by Jesus Christ and incapable of annoying anyone.

Trying to punish players based on the motivations of their emotes is absurd to me Krist.

Krist wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Describing pixelated characters dancing in their underwear as abusing other players is a bit of stretch.

My point is that players dancing in their underwear may annoy you while players speaking fruity medieval speech and having pretend funerals annoys them.

Sorry, I have to ask.

Why are people playing a game based on a medieval type setting if it annoys them?

There has been very much time and effort put into this game concerning the story line and the actual feel of the lands. The game is self described as an MMORPG. I know some of those big letters stand for role play, however, not one stands for dance around in undies until everyone is upset.
You can put roses on a cow pie and tell us it is an "arrangement", but we still know what is underneath.

The issue still stands, there is no doubt these people are griefers. So how does one handle them? I say report them, let the system work it out *it isn't full f2p so they will still be hindered by account breeches*.

Having played these games for 20 years and having admined one, I am not particularly for a techno fix if we can find another. Those always tend to develop further unintended problems, which may be why they did not implement it to begin with.

I have only to say that the characters on this game are far better acted and written than many of these so-called role players I have ran across. So I wouldn't say they always reflect the setting of this game.

But the more relevant point I was trying to make is that being a so-called role-player doesn't mean you are therefore touched by Jesus Christ and incapable of annoying anyone.

Trying to punish players based on the motivations of their emotes is just absurd to me Krist. I rather not GMs go down that path.

newtinmpls

Jeremy wrote: »

If you had ever actually been physically bullied by someone before: you would know how ridiculous it is to try and compare that to watching a video game elf dance in their underwear. They aren't even in the same universe.

So because person X's experience of the world is different from yours, it's invalid?

I disagree. I don't like any version of unkindness.

Oh, an for the record I have "danced naked" in game, and had a lot of fun doing it. Without being deliberately rude to others. Heck, depending on the other players, it's one way to say "I don't want to fight you" to players from other factions in Cyrodiil

Iluvrien

Jeremy wrote: »

IN other words: I see no difference in a character dancing around in his or her underwear while in town and then another player using other emotes to perform a funeral. It's basically the same thing.

It might be that this is the location of the discontinuity.

1) A player dancing around naked with the intent of annoying other players.
2) Players standing around performing an in-game funeral with the intent of annoying nobody.

There is a difference. That you consider "basically the same" explains a lot.

That said, I will at least credit you with supporting the idea that "if a player is put on ignore they are removed from view" idea.

phreatophile

Location. Intent. Good manners. Those are the differences.

It would be the same thing across town or even across the room. It's not the same when no player collision allows it to be done in the same square foot of world space often blocking the victims' view of anything other than the troll. It's not the same thing when the goal is to bother the other players.

What you are saying is that the kid pushing the other down on the playground was really just doing some sort of interpretive dance and and the kid on the ground just happened to be in the way of his hands.

It's not about simply /dance in undies. It's about doing the same in the other persons face for an hour for the purpose of disruption with vicious chat spam for good measure. The players observing the funeral were targeting nobody, the trolls were targeting them.

Intent being the difference, intent is incredibly hard to enforce evenly, doesn't mean it shouldn't be enforced at all.

Jeremy

newtinmpls wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

If you had ever actually been physically bullied by someone before: you would know how ridiculous it is to try and compare that to watching a video game elf dance in their underwear. They aren't even in the same universe.

So because person X's experience of the world is different from yours, it's invalid?

I disagree. I don't like any version of unkindness.

Oh, an for the record I have "danced naked" in game, and had a lot of fun doing it. Without being deliberately rude to others. Heck, depending on the other players, it's one way to say "I don't want to fight you" to players from other factions in Cyrodiil

Even the poster that comment was aimed at acknowledges being physically bullied in real life is no way comparable to having to watch a naked pixel dancing.

It's not about having different experiences or the validity there-of. You can like or not like it. I never said you had to or should like it.

Jeremy

phreatophile wrote: »

Location. Intent. Good manners. Those are the differences.

It would be the same thing across town or even across the room. It's not the same when no player collision allows it to be done in the same square foot of world space often blocking the victims' view of anything other than the troll. It's not the same thing when the goal is to bother the other players.

What you are saying is that the kid pushing the other down on the playground was really just doing some sort of interpretive dance and and the kid on the ground just happened to be in the way of his hands.

It's not about simply /dance in undies. It's about doing the same in the other persons face for an hour for the purpose of disruption with vicious chat spam for good measure. The players observing the funeral were targeting nobody, the trolls were targeting them.

Intent being the difference, intent is incredibly hard to enforce evenly, doesn't mean it shouldn't be enforced at all.

The vicious type can be ignored. So it's essentially about the dancing. I think the comparisons to real life bullying should stop, because they aren't comparable. No one is being pushed down.

If players are going to stand around for hours performing a funeral; it's not much different for a player to be standing around dancing for hours either. Rather the emote is targeted or not doesn't change the fact it's still just an emote.

Intent is not only incredibly hard to enforce: it's impossible. For ZOS to go around punishing everyone who may have committed an emote with the intent to be rude would be ludicrous.

Elsonso

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Standing around, dancing naked, and being in the same area as people having a roleplay session doesn't constitute griefing.

If the person is doing it with the intention of being irritating, chances are it will be irritating. Does not matter whether a person can stand around, dance naked, and be in the same area without it being griefing. If the intention is to grief, it will be.

nerevarine1138

lordrichter wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Standing around, dancing naked, and being in the same area as people having a roleplay session doesn't constitute griefing.

If the person is doing it with the intention of being irritating, chances are it will be irritating. Does not matter whether a person can stand around, dance naked, and be in the same area without it being griefing. If the intention is to grief, it will be.

You can't prove intention short of an actual line of chat saying, "This is why I'm doing this."

Iluvrien

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

You can't prove intention short of an actual line of chat saying, "This is why I'm doing this."

Oddly enough, people engaging in this kind of behaviour often seem to enjoy doing just that... perhaps for them it is part of the process. For me, it just makes it easier to report them (the screenshot I send usually includes the behaviour and the chat).

Krist

Jeremy wrote: »

Trying to punish players based on the motivations of their emotes is just absurd to me Krist. I rather not GMs go down that path.

Their motivation is exactly the problem. Some of us can ignore it easier than others, but we can never say it is simply okay to be harassed.
Reporting them at least allows the GMs to decide if it constitutes harassment. It also gives them a chance to decide what kind of clients they want. You really can't have them all, and the griefers/trolls are pretty much the bottom of the barrel. I would hate to see the good players leave because we simply do not wish to regulate the trolls. Providing this service is one reason the game is not completely F2P.

That is my 2 cents, admittedly hardly worth a penny.

Krist

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

You can't prove intention short of an actual line of chat saying, "This is why I'm doing this."

I dont know if you notice, but they do that. "I hate rp'ers", plus throw in the language they apparently MUST use. Saw it myself with a group that were not even speaking in "say", but apparently were rp'ing.

Those things do not really phase me, but I can see how some get tired of it. That isn't the ones we want to lose from the game. The griefers add nothing but grief, so them being banned does not hurt anyone.

MornaBaine

Jeremy wrote: »

desciviib14_ESO wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

newtinmpls wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

This idea that the so-called role-players do not bother anyone just isn't true though. I've been annoyed and irritated by them on several occasions through-out my gaming.

And I have been annoyed by PvPers, and so on and so on.

I think there is a qualitative difference between a play-style that doesn't appeal to a particular person - and someone putting time and energy into being disrespectful.

One player is going of their way to be a fruity-sounding cartoon knight - the other is going out of their way to be a disruptive underwear dancer. Both play-styles have the potential to annoy others depending on the individuals involved.

If there is a qualitative difference in the two - it's an objective one that would be impossible to measure consistently and fairly. You will never be able to force people to be respectful to one another so might as well not even try. Not to mention everyone has their own ideas about what constitutes respect and what doesn't anyway.

but many if not most that are making an active attempt to be a nuisance cant help but make sure you know by stating so. As OP pointed out, where they said that this is what they do to RPers. That should be a violation of TOS. If they are smart enough to just dance and do their own thing then that's another story but we all know that its attention the trolls/nuisance players crave and most of them will be unable to help themselves if they are ignored and will make sure to make inflammatory statements; whereas, those who are truly just playing their own way should really not be concerned with what others are doing around them in all fairness. It's not about making special rules for RPers but rather about weeding out the differences between those who use the game and it's content for their own fun and those who abuse the ability to interact with other players without consequences.

Describing pixelated characters dancing in their underwear as abusing other players is a bit of stretch.

My point is that players dancing in their underwear may annoy you while players speaking fruity medieval speech and having pretend funerals annoys them.

Your point that players shouldn't concern themselves with what others are doing around them is well taken: but that could just as easily apply to the guy dancing in his underwear as it does the so-called Role Players. So put the underwear dancer on ignore and don't pay attention to what he is doing - just as you are asking others to do in regards to Role Players and their events.

If all he had been doing was the naked dancing in place we would have likely ignored him rather than reporting him. But along with the hateful speech he was literally merging in to other player's characters and spamming flashy noisy spells, clearly with the intent to disrupt. I've explained this several times so your argument rings a bit hollow at this point.

MornaBaine

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

newtinmpls wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

You're having an RP event. Good for you. That doesn't mean that everyone passing through has to take part in a way that you find appropriate. And the standards you apply to it are exactly why the GMs shouldn't be enforcing rules on character behavior unless it actually crosses the line in to griefing.

So how does sticking around, dancing naked, pushing through the same group of the same people and spamming zone chat with abusive language for an hour real-time NOT constitute greifing?

Standing around, dancing naked, and being in the same area as people having a roleplay session doesn't constitute griefing.

Abusive chat does constitute trolling. And they already punish that.

That (the abusive chat) was going on as well as the offender constantly swinging his weapons at us along with the dancing and spamming spells. So, you still think that wasn't deliberate and actionable griefing?

As I said on the first page of this thread: the abusive chat is absolutely something he should be actioned for.

Swinging his weapons around, dancing, and using abilities? Without the accompanying abusive chat, it's not something that anyone should be hoping a GM punishes him for.

Why not? His intent to disrupt and irritate other players was absolutely clear. If he had been following me around doing this while I quested I would have reported him for it as well. Just as the people who mobbed the dye stations when they first released and spammed spells so that people could not use them were reported and eventually dealt with. If some freak in real life followed me around acting like he was stabbing me, dancing and only wearing his underwear, you can bet I'd be calling the cops! LOL

And what if I find your RP event irritating and disrupting? Believe me, I've been more than a little ticked off to enter an inn and find a bunch of bad writers engaged in a terrible session of roleplaying, but I let it slide because they're just doing their thing. Following you around in my underwear may be irritating, but it isn't griefing.

Spamming spells at the dye stations when they first came out was griefing because it was a deliberate attempt to force lag and crashes on people trying to use the new system. It wasn't just a nuisance; it was a potentially game-stopping issue for people who were trying to utilize a major feature of that patch.

In the event you see bad writing you have the option to remove it from your sight with the current /ignore function. I don't yet have that option for the person spamming their noisy and flashy spells while merged into my character.

MornaBaine

Jeremy wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

.

phreatophile wrote: »

The thinly veiled contempt for role-players shown by most of the people defending this behavior is the problem.

All that is being asked for here is a mechanism to avoid griefers entirely. Without that, all you need do if RP annoys you is nothing. The Role-players simply wish to be left alone. But that's the point, isn't it. You know there's not a thing they can do about it. If they just put up with it, you've ruined their ability to have a fun event: Troll wins. If they report you, ZOS will do nothing and you've still ruined their evening: Troll wins. If the roleplayers snap and get into a chat confrontation, you've still ruined their fun: Troll wins. You can wrestle a pig, but you both get dirty and the pig likes it. People that get off on hurting others are bad people, especially when they search out people who have no means to defend themselves.

Pretending that the behavior in question is just somebody playing the game how they wish and the RPers happen to be there in the wrong place at the wrong time is dishonest at best.

Again, you think you're better than those nerdy role-players, so you grief them. This is an action on your part. For any sense of moral equivalence you need to simply ignore them and move on. Those role-players aren't doing anything to you but you get in their face anyway.

The OP's event was held in group chat, and they only started reacting with reports once the griefing started. Passive then reactive.

The griefers saw a likely target and set about to offend them with action and written word in chat. Active

These are not the same thing. There is no equivalence, so stop pretending there is.

MornaBaine wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

newtinmpls wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

You're having an RP event. Good for you. That doesn't mean that everyone passing through has to take part in a way that you find appropriate. And the standards you apply to it are exactly why the GMs shouldn't be enforcing rules on character behavior unless it actually crosses the line in to griefing.

So how does sticking around, dancing naked, pushing through the same group of the same people and spamming zone chat with abusive language for an hour real-time NOT constitute greifing?

Standing around, dancing naked, and being in the same area as people having a roleplay session doesn't constitute griefing.

Abusive chat does constitute trolling. And they already punish that.

That (the abusive chat) was going on as well as the offender constantly swinging his weapons at us along with the dancing and spamming spells. So, you still think that wasn't deliberate and actionable griefing?

As I said on the first page of this thread: the abusive chat is absolutely something he should be actioned for.

Swinging his weapons around, dancing, and using abilities? Without the accompanying abusive chat, it's not something that anyone should be hoping a GM punishes him for.

Why not? His intent to disrupt and irritate other players was absolutely clear. If he had been following me around doing this while I quested I would have reported him for it as well. Just as the people who mobbed the dye stations when they first released and spammed spells so that people could not use them were reported and eventually dealt with. If some freak in real life followed me around acting like he was stabbing me, dancing and only wearing his underwear, you can bet I'd be calling the cops! LOL

So you think ZOS has a responsibility to make sure other players do not irritate you? Is that basically what you are saying?

I am saying ZOS has the responsibility to enable tools useable by ALL players so that we can make sure other players do not deliberately and with malice aforethought ruin our leisure time.

I also see you are unable to come up with a personal example of a roleplayer having ruined or impeded your game experience. If you can't back up the very argument you presented then you really have nothing to contribute to the discussion.

I would be fine with them giving you the tools to make other players vanish as I said.

There has been many instances where other players have annoyed/irritated me on this game and many others. Rather or not you would consider them role players or engaged in some roleplaying event is irrelevant.

For example: I've had numerous players dance around me in their underwear and talk trash. It never even occurred to me that I should call a GM over it. I've seen entire guilds dancing in their panties before inside the bank and talking nonsense. I've had bare chested nords and cat people attempt to make out with me in the rift.

I think the real issue here in this thread is that people who consider themselves role players for what ever reason believe that being a role player gives them some special privilege not to be disturbed. That's what I'm trying to highlight.

And you would be wrong. Plain and simple. No one is asking for special privileges because we think we're entitled to them by virtue of being roleplayers. We are asking for tools that would make a better player experience for everyone. Including the people who don't like roleplayers and don't want to see them. I'm not quite sure why you have a problem with that.

nerevarine1138

Krist wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

You can't prove intention short of an actual line of chat saying, "This is why I'm doing this."

I dont know if you notice, but they do that. "I hate rp'ers", plus throw in the language they apparently MUST use. Saw it myself with a group that were not even speaking in "say", but apparently were rp'ing.

Those things do not really phase me, but I can see how some get tired of it. That isn't the ones we want to lose from the game. The griefers add nothing but grief, so them being banned does not hurt anyone.

And for the third time this thread (reading is your friend, people), the chat clearly made this incident a case of trolling.

MornaBaine wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

newtinmpls wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

You're having an RP event. Good for you. That doesn't mean that everyone passing through has to take part in a way that you find appropriate. And the standards you apply to it are exactly why the GMs shouldn't be enforcing rules on character behavior unless it actually crosses the line in to griefing.

So how does sticking around, dancing naked, pushing through the same group of the same people and spamming zone chat with abusive language for an hour real-time NOT constitute greifing?

Standing around, dancing naked, and being in the same area as people having a roleplay session doesn't constitute griefing.

Abusive chat does constitute trolling. And they already punish that.

That (the abusive chat) was going on as well as the offender constantly swinging his weapons at us along with the dancing and spamming spells. So, you still think that wasn't deliberate and actionable griefing?

As I said on the first page of this thread: the abusive chat is absolutely something he should be actioned for.

Swinging his weapons around, dancing, and using abilities? Without the accompanying abusive chat, it's not something that anyone should be hoping a GM punishes him for.

Why not? His intent to disrupt and irritate other players was absolutely clear. If he had been following me around doing this while I quested I would have reported him for it as well. Just as the people who mobbed the dye stations when they first released and spammed spells so that people could not use them were reported and eventually dealt with. If some freak in real life followed me around acting like he was stabbing me, dancing and only wearing his underwear, you can bet I'd be calling the cops! LOL

And what if I find your RP event irritating and disrupting? Believe me, I've been more than a little ticked off to enter an inn and find a bunch of bad writers engaged in a terrible session of roleplaying, but I let it slide because they're just doing their thing. Following you around in my underwear may be irritating, but it isn't griefing.

Spamming spells at the dye stations when they first came out was griefing because it was a deliberate attempt to force lag and crashes on people trying to use the new system. It wasn't just a nuisance; it was a potentially game-stopping issue for people who were trying to utilize a major feature of that patch.

In the event you see bad writing you have the option to remove it from your sight with the current /ignore function. I don't yet have that option for the person spamming their noisy and flashy spells while merged into my character.

But I can't get that terrible RP group off my screen with their bad costumes and odd character emotes. And if one of them casts a spell, should I consider that to be griefing?

If it wouldn't be considered griefing outside of an RP session, it can't be considered griefing in one.

Whisper292

Seven pages of replies is great, but I have a headache so I only read two, so sorry if anything I say here is a repeat of something else.

I was at the event with Morna, and it was infuriating (I'm not as patient as she is). I also reported the guys several times and got the same form letter about ignoring and turning on the profanity filter, at which point I sent a letter back. I thanked them for their "valuable" advice and reminded them that doing such things doesn't prevent them from dancing naked and spamming spells at us. They were very cool about it and let me know that if we tell them of an event ahead of time, they can have a GM on hand, either in the game with us or monitoring tickets, so they can deal with the problem more quickly. I agree that ignoring someone making them disappear would be a great idea.

I also would like to see guild housing or instanced spaces, but it does prevent some newbies from taking an interest and asking to join the guild. I would rather use a public space for tavern night or simple social RP, but for an event like a wedding, funeral, or ceremony, having some privacy would prevent a lot of headaches.

I get so tired of having people "blame society" whenever somebody does something wrong, or when they say something to the effect of "that's just the way it is." I don't care if someone has been a victim of circumstance since they were born (well, I do, but not in this case), and I don't care that B2P lets more bratty twelve-year-olds in. And it doesn't matter whether it's against the law or just simple rules of etiquette. If someone acts out, there should be consequences. People. Are. Responsible. For. Their. Own. Actions. PERIOD.

nerevarine1138

Whisper292 wrote: »

Seven pages of replies is great, but I have a headache so I only read two, so sorry if anything I say here is a repeat of something else.

I was at the event with Morna, and it was infuriating (I'm not as patient as she is). I also reported the guys several times and got the same form letter about ignoring and turning on the profanity filter, at which point I sent a letter back. I thanked them for their "valuable" advice and reminded them that doing such things doesn't prevent them from dancing naked and spamming spells at us. They were very cool about it and let me know that if we tell them of an event ahead of time, they can have a GM on hand, either in the game with us or monitoring tickets, so they can deal with the problem more quickly. I agree that ignoring someone making them disappear would be a great idea.

I also would like to see guild housing or instanced spaces, but it does prevent some newbies from taking an interest and asking to join the guild. I would rather use a public space for tavern night or simple social RP, but for an event like a wedding, funeral, or ceremony, having some privacy would prevent a lot of headaches.

I get so tired of having people "blame society" whenever somebody does something wrong, or when they say something to the effect of "that's just the way it is." I don't care if someone has been a victim of circumstance since they were born (well, I do, but not in this case), and I don't care that B2P lets more bratty twelve-year-olds in. And it doesn't matter whether it's against the law or just simple rules of etiquette. If someone acts out, there should be consequences. People. Are. Responsible. For. Their. Own. Actions. PERIOD.

As much as I appreciate your sentiment, there's a reason that "proper etiquette" is not an in-game rule.

MornaBaine

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Whisper292 wrote: »

Seven pages of replies is great, but I have a headache so I only read two, so sorry if anything I say here is a repeat of something else.

I was at the event with Morna, and it was infuriating (I'm not as patient as she is). I also reported the guys several times and got the same form letter about ignoring and turning on the profanity filter, at which point I sent a letter back. I thanked them for their "valuable" advice and reminded them that doing such things doesn't prevent them from dancing naked and spamming spells at us. They were very cool about it and let me know that if we tell them of an event ahead of time, they can have a GM on hand, either in the game with us or monitoring tickets, so they can deal with the problem more quickly. I agree that ignoring someone making them disappear would be a great idea.

I also would like to see guild housing or instanced spaces, but it does prevent some newbies from taking an interest and asking to join the guild. I would rather use a public space for tavern night or simple social RP, but for an event like a wedding, funeral, or ceremony, having some privacy would prevent a lot of headaches.

I get so tired of having people "blame society" whenever somebody does something wrong, or when they say something to the effect of "that's just the way it is." I don't care if someone has been a victim of circumstance since they were born (well, I do, but not in this case), and I don't care that B2P lets more bratty twelve-year-olds in. And it doesn't matter whether it's against the law or just simple rules of etiquette. If someone acts out, there should be consequences. People. Are. Responsible. For. Their. Own. Actions. PERIOD.

As much as I appreciate your sentiment, there's a reason that "proper etiquette" is not an in-game rule.

But it IS a human rule. And again, you keep trying to change the subject. This isn't about the game imposing more rules. It's about PLAYERS being given the tools that will make their experience enjoyable instead of miserable. I'm not sure why you seem to be against that.

nerevarine1138

MornaBaine wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Whisper292 wrote: »

Seven pages of replies is great, but I have a headache so I only read two, so sorry if anything I say here is a repeat of something else.

I was at the event with Morna, and it was infuriating (I'm not as patient as she is). I also reported the guys several times and got the same form letter about ignoring and turning on the profanity filter, at which point I sent a letter back. I thanked them for their "valuable" advice and reminded them that doing such things doesn't prevent them from dancing naked and spamming spells at us. They were very cool about it and let me know that if we tell them of an event ahead of time, they can have a GM on hand, either in the game with us or monitoring tickets, so they can deal with the problem more quickly. I agree that ignoring someone making them disappear would be a great idea.

I also would like to see guild housing or instanced spaces, but it does prevent some newbies from taking an interest and asking to join the guild. I would rather use a public space for tavern night or simple social RP, but for an event like a wedding, funeral, or ceremony, having some privacy would prevent a lot of headaches.

I get so tired of having people "blame society" whenever somebody does something wrong, or when they say something to the effect of "that's just the way it is." I don't care if someone has been a victim of circumstance since they were born (well, I do, but not in this case), and I don't care that B2P lets more bratty twelve-year-olds in. And it doesn't matter whether it's against the law or just simple rules of etiquette. If someone acts out, there should be consequences. People. Are. Responsible. For. Their. Own. Actions. PERIOD.

As much as I appreciate your sentiment, there's a reason that "proper etiquette" is not an in-game rule.

But it IS a human rule. And again, you keep trying to change the subject. This isn't about the game imposing more rules. It's about PLAYERS being given the tools that will make their experience enjoyable instead of miserable. I'm not sure why you seem to be against that.

Plenty of people in this thread (yourself included, it seems) want the GMs to be regulating this kind of behavior, which I see as extremely problematic.

There are mechanical issues introduced by making ignored players disappear in the game world, but those have already been brought up (and ignored) in this thread enough.

MornaBaine

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Whisper292 wrote: »

Seven pages of replies is great, but I have a headache so I only read two, so sorry if anything I say here is a repeat of something else.

I was at the event with Morna, and it was infuriating (I'm not as patient as she is). I also reported the guys several times and got the same form letter about ignoring and turning on the profanity filter, at which point I sent a letter back. I thanked them for their "valuable" advice and reminded them that doing such things doesn't prevent them from dancing naked and spamming spells at us. They were very cool about it and let me know that if we tell them of an event ahead of time, they can have a GM on hand, either in the game with us or monitoring tickets, so they can deal with the problem more quickly. I agree that ignoring someone making them disappear would be a great idea.

I also would like to see guild housing or instanced spaces, but it does prevent some newbies from taking an interest and asking to join the guild. I would rather use a public space for tavern night or simple social RP, but for an event like a wedding, funeral, or ceremony, having some privacy would prevent a lot of headaches.

I get so tired of having people "blame society" whenever somebody does something wrong, or when they say something to the effect of "that's just the way it is." I don't care if someone has been a victim of circumstance since they were born (well, I do, but not in this case), and I don't care that B2P lets more bratty twelve-year-olds in. And it doesn't matter whether it's against the law or just simple rules of etiquette. If someone acts out, there should be consequences. People. Are. Responsible. For. Their. Own. Actions. PERIOD.

As much as I appreciate your sentiment, there's a reason that "proper etiquette" is not an in-game rule.

But it IS a human rule. And again, you keep trying to change the subject. This isn't about the game imposing more rules. It's about PLAYERS being given the tools that will make their experience enjoyable instead of miserable. I'm not sure why you seem to be against that.

Plenty of people in this thread (yourself included, it seems) want the GMs to be regulating this kind of behavior, which I see as extremely problematic.

There are mechanical issues introduced by making ignored players disappear in the game world, but those have already been brought up (and ignored) in this thread enough.

But the fact remains that is IS done in other games. So the possibility is there. And I feel it's a possibility that should be explored. Until it is, yeah I do want more proactive policing. If you can be banned from these forums for life for saying the wrong thing enough times...there's no reason those same standards shouldn't be applied to the game itself.

maryriv

There is an ignore feature for a reason.

Iluvrien

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Plenty of people in this thread (yourself included, it seems) want the GMs to be regulating this kind of behavior, which I see as extremely problematic.

There are mechanical issues introduced by making ignored players disappear in the game world, but those have already been brought up (and ignored) in this thread enough.

So what is your solution to this problem? Usually I agree with a fair amount of what you say, but this time you seem to be against GM involvement and against using phasing to remove people... so how would you prefer to see this situation resolved?

MornaBaine

maryriv wrote: »

There is an ignore feature for a reason.

And if you had read the thread or even just the OP you'd know we were talking about trolling and griefing that goes beyond just what you see in the chat.

nerevarine1138

Iluvrien wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Plenty of people in this thread (yourself included, it seems) want the GMs to be regulating this kind of behavior, which I see as extremely problematic.

There are mechanical issues introduced by making ignored players disappear in the game world, but those have already been brought up (and ignored) in this thread enough.

So what is your solution to this problem? Usually I agree with a fair amount of what you say, but this time you seem to be against GM involvement and against using phasing to remove people... so how would you prefer to see this situation resolved?

I'm not against the idea of ignore-phasing in principle, but I don't see how it works on a more practical level. How is PvP in Cyrodiil dealt with? What about the upcoming PvP side of the Justice System?

There would have to be exceptions within the ignore-phasing, and I see a lot of room for problems there. More importantly, I don't think that people dancing in their underwear merits such strong measures. If you find it annoying, fine. I'm not saying that feeling isn't valid. But that's what willpower is for.

Foxesz

Reading things like this make me wonder why they just didn't switch over to dedicated servers for say, RP. The phasing isn't really helping much in cases like these. Granted there'd still be OOC'ers about in dedicated RP servers, but those might be dealt with easier if they harass people. Good thing for me is that there's despite all the harassment still people who stop, ask what we're doing and says how awesome RP is before moving on.

MornaBaine

Foxesz wrote: »

Reading things like this make me wonder why they just didn't switch over to dedicated servers for say, RP. The phasing isn't really helping much in cases like these. Granted there'd still be OOC'ers about in dedicated RP servers, but those might be dealt with easier if they harass people. Good thing for me is that there's despite all the harassment still people who stop, ask what we're doing and says how awesome RP is before moving on.

There ARE some rays of sunshine out there for us "weirdoes" and our unique brand of fun. We had someone come across our guild last night as several of us gathered for a more relaxed and casual evening, ask us "Is this RP? it's cool!" and just hung out awhile to watch as they quietly went about their business. We invited them to join us but they demurred on grounds of "being nowhere near our level" at this particular pastime but thanked us for adding something unique and cool to the atmosphere and when they left said they'd really enjoyed us.

This, to me, underscores yet again why the extended /ignore (which, yes, would probably have to be shut off when entering Cyrodiil) function is such an important idea. It means roleplayers could still do their thing out in the world and people who actually appreciate it could still happen across it.