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Community Vision and Increased Moderation

  • OrangeTheCat
    OrangeTheCat
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    We will not tolerate ... insulting language toward ... company
    Can I just check I've got this right .. insulting a corporation is now a bannable offense?

    Really?

    One can't say what one thinks of ZOS if it's unflattering, right?

    Yup. That's what got me my warning today. It was common enough before, but I just got back into these forums (see above), and bam, I am already at a disadvantage.
  • OrangeTheCat
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    LonePirate wrote: »
    We definitely need a subscribers only forum where we can voice concerns that apparently will result in bans if submitted on the free for all forums where we all have to march in lock step with smiling faces.

    Opinions, comments, concerns, experiences, and issues of non-subscribers are just as valid as those of subscribers. Segregating between the two groups is blatantly discriminatory IMO.
    Edited by OrangeTheCat on March 17, 2015 10:23PM
  • Soulshine
    Soulshine
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    LonePirate wrote: »
    We definitely need a subscribers only forum where we can voice concerns that apparently will result in bans if submitted on the free for all forums where we all have to march in lock step with smiling faces.

    Opinions, comments, concerns, experiences, and issues of non-subscribers are just as valid as those of subscribers. Segregating between the two groups is blatantly discriminatory IMO.

    I have no idea what was said, but as you know discussing moderation in the threads here will just lead to.... more moderation.

    I do however agree with you that all players of the game, subscribers or nonsubscribers, should have a voice in the game as we all bought the game to play it, are here playing, and experiencing the many of the same issues. Pay status is not synonymous with play status - or at least it should not be.
  • 16BitForestCat
    16BitForestCat
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    I was actually pretty impressed with how the forums were moderated before, but I'm glad that the mods are wanting to pay even closer attention to what gets said here. There have definitely been posts that weren't exactly AGAINST the rules at the time, but were clearly intended to be inflammatory and rude. Said posts made more polite people hesitant about participating on the forums, fearing they'd be attacked just for having an opinion.

    If you can't speak/type without resorting to rudeness, you're not actually adding anything constructive to the conversation. And if "But that's just how I talk, it's mah styyyyyllllleeeeeee, you should just deal with it!!" is your defense, that's all too often just another way of saying "I wanna get away with being as rude as I want. How dare you call me out for being a jerk!" Try being polite. Try being sarcastic without being rude. Try cracking jokes that don't involve insulting entire groups of real people, or even just one real person. It makes your stress levels plummet, and you don't waste your valuable free time fighting with strangers on the Internet!

    It's not illegal to be rude (unfortunately), but if you think you'll just DIE if you don't get to be a total jerk online, there are plenty of places on the Internet that will accommodate inflammatory writing. However, there's no law that says this forum has to be one of them. The blunt truth is, this forum isn't the U.S. government, we have no right to free speech here, and yes, the admins are allowed to dictate and enforce the rules in the manner of their choosing. I prefer forums where people act like adults, so I won't be missing the trolls and flamers.

    (To be clear, it's rude and insulting intent I have problems with. I don't have any problems with people engaging in constructive criticism of the game or the forum. And I actually wouldn't mind if we were allowed to swear here, seeing as it's the forum of a game intended for mature players.)

    And welcome to all the new people who are looking for a safe place to discuss and have fun! :3
    Edited by 16BitForestCat on March 18, 2015 12:59AM
    —PC/NA, never Steam—
    Getting lost in TESO Tamriel and beyond since Beta 2013!
    Alliance agnostic: all factions should chill the fetch out and party together.
    If you ever wonder why certain official fandom spaces are so often toxic and awful, remember: corruption starts from the top. ^^v
  • Soulshine
    Soulshine
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    I would like to ask respectfully that moderators please consider making it clear why they are removing posts from the forums so as to avoid future similar issues, please.

    This morning there was a thread in general discussion which was not only closed but deleted from the forums altogether without so much as a single word from the moderators. I was in the thread when it happened. That I had read up to that point, the thread was friendly and no arguing was going on or anything that seemed out of line with ToS. It was closed while I was still reading in it. This seems inapprorpiate, especially if the expectation is for people using the forums to be aware of what is not ok to post on the forums and what is. If you informed whoever posted in the thread as to the reason for the closure, that is not helpful to the rest of us reading in it who do not understand what the problem was.
  • Ysne58
    Ysne58
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    Soulshine wrote: »
    I would like to ask respectfully that moderators please consider making it clear why they are removing posts from the forums so as to avoid future similar issues, please.

    This morning there was a thread in general discussion which was not only closed but deleted from the forums altogether without so much as a single word from the moderators. I was in the thread when it happened. That I had read up to that point, the thread was friendly and no arguing was going on or anything that seemed out of line with ToS. It was closed while I was still reading in it. This seems inapprorpiate, especially if the expectation is for people using the forums to be aware of what is not ok to post on the forums and what is. If you informed whoever posted in the thread as to the reason for the closure, that is not helpful to the rest of us reading in it who do not understand what the problem was.

    I just had that happen too.
  • ZOS_GinaBruno
    ZOS_GinaBruno
    Community Manager
    Soulshine wrote: »
    I would like to ask respectfully that moderators please consider making it clear why they are removing posts from the forums so as to avoid future similar issues, please.

    This morning there was a thread in general discussion which was not only closed but deleted from the forums altogether without so much as a single word from the moderators. I was in the thread when it happened. That I had read up to that point, the thread was friendly and no arguing was going on or anything that seemed out of line with ToS. It was closed while I was still reading in it. This seems inapprorpiate, especially if the expectation is for people using the forums to be aware of what is not ok to post on the forums and what is. If you informed whoever posted in the thread as to the reason for the closure, that is not helpful to the rest of us reading in it who do not understand what the problem was.

    We will always post a closure message explaining why a thread is being closed. Sending you a PM to get more details.
    Gina Bruno
    Senior Creator Engagement Manager
    Dev Tracker | Service Alerts | ESO Twitter | My Twitter
    Staff Post
  • Bloodfang
    Bloodfang
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    I don't mind topics getting deleted without an explanation.
    Those that are really deserve it. Yesterday the one I was reading got deleted and rightfully so.
    Props to the Moderators, you are finally doing your job.
    Edited by Bloodfang on March 18, 2015 6:14PM
  • Kuro1n
    Kuro1n
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    Bloodfang wrote: »
    I don't mind topics getting deleted without an explanation.
    Those that are really deserve it. Yesterday the one I was reading got deleted and rightfully so.
    Props to the Moderators, you are finally doing your job.
    I think in some cases they are over-moderating. I got a warning or something for trying to help some users out regarding the forums brightness. :/
  • wraith808
    wraith808
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    Kuro1n wrote: »
    Bloodfang wrote: »
    I don't mind topics getting deleted without an explanation.
    Those that are really deserve it. Yesterday the one I was reading got deleted and rightfully so.
    Props to the Moderators, you are finally doing your job.
    I think in some cases they are over-moderating. I got a warning or something for trying to help some users out regarding the forums brightness. :/

    How do you know that you actually got a *warning* or how many warnings you have? I've seen people refer to this- I've received PMs from mods before about different threads and activities... but they weren't phrased as warnings, I didn't think.
    Quasim ibn-Muhammad - VR 12 Redguard Dragon Knight
    Taladriel Vanima - VR 5 Altmer Nightblade
    Ambalyo iyo Bogaadin - VR 1 Redguard Sorceror
  • Kuro1n
    Kuro1n
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    wraith808 wrote: »
    Kuro1n wrote: »
    Bloodfang wrote: »
    I don't mind topics getting deleted without an explanation.
    Those that are really deserve it. Yesterday the one I was reading got deleted and rightfully so.
    Props to the Moderators, you are finally doing your job.
    I think in some cases they are over-moderating. I got a warning or something for trying to help some users out regarding the forums brightness. :/

    How do you know that you actually got a *warning* or how many warnings you have? I've seen people refer to this- I've received PMs from mods before about different threads and activities... but they weren't phrased as warnings, I didn't think.
    Well I was told it wasn't a warning afterwards but the first message very much looked like a warning. In either case I think they need to be a bit more lenient when it comes to moderating as long as the point of the posts are to be helpful or constructive. :x
  • nerevarine1138
    nerevarine1138
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    Kuro1n wrote: »
    wraith808 wrote: »
    Kuro1n wrote: »
    Bloodfang wrote: »
    I don't mind topics getting deleted without an explanation.
    Those that are really deserve it. Yesterday the one I was reading got deleted and rightfully so.
    Props to the Moderators, you are finally doing your job.
    I think in some cases they are over-moderating. I got a warning or something for trying to help some users out regarding the forums brightness. :/

    How do you know that you actually got a *warning* or how many warnings you have? I've seen people refer to this- I've received PMs from mods before about different threads and activities... but they weren't phrased as warnings, I didn't think.
    Well I was told it wasn't a warning afterwards but the first message very much looked like a warning. In either case I think they need to be a bit more lenient when it comes to moderating as long as the point of the posts are to be helpful or constructive. :x

    I've never seen a post that's genuinely helpful or constructive get moderated.

    I have seen irrelevant or trolling posts get moderated. And in some cases, a post that links to an unknown third-party app will get moderated for the safety of anyone in the thread (could be a virus, etc.).
    ----
    Murray?
  • Soulshine
    Soulshine
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    Shouldn't this be stickied someplace or is it now meant to fall down the sink whole of sunken threads?
  • Inactive Account
    Inactive Account
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    I have posted on these forums a few times, nothing major, but I have been in a couple "HEATED" conversations with a few people.

    As to what it takes to get a thread deleted or closed.... WoW! there must be some major stuff happening.
  • Keron
    Keron
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    Please envision your community and start to moderate:
    • Excessive discussion necromancy
    • Excessive negativity from players who seem to have stopped playing a while ago and now come back here just to troll and flame, now that access is not anymore tied to an active subscription
    • Reurgitation of every single stupid idea that had finaly DIAF'd
    • Rampant unwillingness to at least rudimentarily search for a topic before creating the umpteenth repetition of the selfsame discussion.
    Heaven help, that is the second rant in as many days...
  • Soulshine
    Soulshine
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    Keron wrote: »
    Please envision your community and start to moderate:
    • Excessive discussion necromancy
    • Excessive negativity from players who seem to have stopped playing a while ago and now come back here just to troll and flame, now that access is not anymore tied to an active subscription
    • Reurgitation of every single stupid idea that had finaly DIAF'd
    • Rampant unwillingness to at least rudimentarily search for a topic before creating the umpteenth repetition of the selfsame discussion.
    Heaven help, that is the second rant in as many days...

    I think it is fairly obvious that we all have to exersize a little tolerance. There are many new players here, aside from ones coming back. It is normal to see the forums rehash some old issues for a time. Yes it would be nice if more people used a search before posting, but since there is nothing you can do to make them do this, you just have to suck it up and be patient. It will calm down.
  • Ysne58
    Ysne58
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    Why is this topic no longer stickied?
  • Nazon_Katts
    Nazon_Katts
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    Ysne58 wrote: »
    Why is this topic no longer stickied?

    Too much work for too few?
    "You've probably figured that out by now. Let's hope so. Or we're in real trouble... and out come the intestines. And I skip rope with them!"
  • nerevarine1138
    nerevarine1138
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    Still looks stickied to me...
    ----
    Murray?
  • Zhoyzu
    Zhoyzu
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    MornaBaine wrote: »
    If one has a complaint about some aspect of the game or company policy is one still allowed to bring that to the forums? Or must all dissatisfaction now be handled privately via customer service?
    You are certainly allowed to voice any disagreements or complaints, but it must be done in a constructive manner. For example, just saying "this game sucks" doesn't help anyone or foster any sort of discussion, but letting us know what you're unhappy about, what's broken, what you'd prefer to see, etc. is perfectly fine.

    Suppose we could start with the increasing frequency of performance decreases across the board.
    Zhoyzu - Nightblade Alchemist (v15) RETIRED
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    Xuhl'Xotuun - Warden Current Main as im starting the game over essentially with this character aside from crafting.

    Creator of Khajiit fall dmg reduction racial passive concept.

  • Eyepoke067
    Eyepoke067
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    Awesome. Can we get some moderation for zone chat in the starter areas? Sometimes its so offensive I have to turn off zone chat.
    Not the simple solution some simpletons point to.
    Many people like helping new players, but the insults, attacks, and offensive behavior rob new players of the welcome they deserve.
    Zone chat is for everyone, for the community, not just trolls, bullies, and people who obviously hate this game.
    If you cant or wont moderate zone chat, then can you raise the ignore limit to 500?
    100 slots of ignore fills up so fast.

    I would like to point out to some of the posters here that the M rating does not mean you get to say whatever you want, insult whomever you wish, and expect to get away with acting like a 6ick.

    Freedom of Speech has limitations. I applaud the moderators for taking on this job, thank you.
  • Rylana
    Rylana
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    Hello everyone,

    One of the goals of the official ESO forums is to provide a safe, welcoming place for our players and developers to read and talk about the game. We want to foster healthy and constructive discussions, debates and feedback, and with The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited quickly approaching, welcome new and returning players.

    Effective immediately, we will be enforcing stricter moderation of the existing rules on our forums, and will be much less tolerant of any type of behavior that hurts everyone’s experience. We will not tolerate trolling, demands, abusive or insulting language toward our community members, developers, company, or ESO itself. Once you receive a warning for any moderation action, you will be suspended for 72 hours on your next offense. Any violation after your suspension will result in a permanent ban from our forums (note that this will not affect your in-game status).

    We’d love for everyone to take another look at How to be an ESO Community Hero to really embrace the type of behavior we’d like to see. We also want to encourage you to continue using the Report button for any posts or threads that may require a moderator’s attention. We recognize this may require some adjustments in the way you communicate and interact with each other, but with your help, it will make for a healthier and more constructive community. If there’s any doubt about what you’re about to post, please double check the rules.

    Thanks for your continued support and understanding!

    [snip]

    I legit want to know, and this isnt a bash by any means, but rule enforcement has wayyyyy to much room for abuse by your mods. There is no oversight, no one to contact in event of being unfairly targeted.

    At the end of the day I guarantee you the following:

    - Quality of posting will decrease.
    - Exploits and bugs will not be reported to the devs (both because the in game system is incompetent, and because most of the game breaking exploits fixed in the past were because of forum communication/intervention)
    - You will foster an environment where open constructive concerns will be withheld out of fear of moderation. Your game gets a lot of deserved negative publicity and response, and you know a lot of that has a good reason. This hasnt exactly been a smooth year Gina. We have done what we can to address these issues so they can be fixed, but in a heavy handed environment this doesnt seem likely.
    - Moderators on a power trip will be unchecked and even the smallest infractions will further destroy the community. By my count over 20 people were banned in the last month on "name and shame" while trying to get an exploit fixed.

    Maybe this decision should be rethought, instead of trying to quiet the rabble, be more inward focused on the cause of the rabble.

    Legit concerns Gina, not a troll post by any means. Im dead serious :(

    [Moderator note: This topic title has been edited due to our community rules on Discussing Disciplinary Actions]
    Edited by ZOS_AlanG on March 25, 2015 3:02PM
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  • Audigy
    Audigy
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    Rylana wrote: »
    Hello everyone,

    One of the goals of the official ESO forums is to provide a safe, welcoming place for our players and developers to read and talk about the game. We want to foster healthy and constructive discussions, debates and feedback, and with The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited quickly approaching, welcome new and returning players.

    Effective immediately, we will be enforcing stricter moderation of the existing rules on our forums, and will be much less tolerant of any type of behavior that hurts everyone’s experience. We will not tolerate trolling, demands, abusive or insulting language toward our community members, developers, company, or ESO itself. Once you receive a warning for any moderation action, you will be suspended for 72 hours on your next offense. Any violation after your suspension will result in a permanent ban from our forums (note that this will not affect your in-game status).

    We’d love for everyone to take another look at How to be an ESO Community Hero to really embrace the type of behavior we’d like to see. We also want to encourage you to continue using the Report button for any posts or threads that may require a moderator’s attention. We recognize this may require some adjustments in the way you communicate and interact with each other, but with your help, it will make for a healthier and more constructive community. If there’s any doubt about what you’re about to post, please double check the rules.

    Thanks for your continued support and understanding!

    [snip]

    I legit want to know, and this isnt a bash by any means, but rule enforcement has wayyyyy to much room for abuse by your mods. There is no oversight, no one to contact in event of being unfairly targeted.

    At the end of the day I guarantee you the following:

    Maybe this decision should be rethought, instead of trying to quiet the rabble, be more inward focused on the cause of the rabble.

    Legit concerns Gina, not a troll post by any means. Im dead serious :(

    I also had a similar case now and its quite sad. I will not talk about the case, as this isn't allowed due the forum rules, and by no means I want to criticize a mod here, but if I post in a specific thread which is about a specific topic and everyone talks in a "mature & sarcastic" way, yet I get called out for it, then you have to wonder why.

    Is there someone of our community reporting all my posts due a personal hate? How can I get called out for what all do, advised to stop else I see a ban? Who will stop these false reports and especially stop us long time community members from getting punished?

    I hope that "concern" is seen as that and not yet another reason to silence me :( I know I am one of the most critical people in this forum and I do make jokes and have a high sense of humor, but right now I decided to not contribute in two threads as I felt in danger of once again being punished for contributing. To only post in "safe" environments seems kind of wrong and limiting.

    Again, I don't criticize your work, especially not of the mod who contacted me, but I do criticize the effect it has on us posting here often. If we do wrong then its right to call us out for it, but only if everyone else is called out for it as well.
    If posts from many days ago are suddenly wrong, then we all know why. Not because of them being wrong, but because of someone harassing us with false reports, especially if the reported person represents an opinion that the reporting person doesn't like. Some people already fish for "posts" to harm others, its really not nice. :(

    Thanks for understanding!

    Edited quoted content
    Edited by ZOS_AlanG on March 25, 2015 3:03PM
  • ZOS_AlanG
    ZOS_AlanG
    admin
    Hi everyone, please remember that we do not allow disciplinary actions to be discussed on the forums. This thread is for discussing the rules and their general enforcement, not specific examples.
    Rylana wrote: »
    rule enforcement has wayyyyy to much room for abuse by your mods. There is no oversight, no one to contact in event of being unfairly targeted.
    Moderators and administrators work closely together, so there is considerably oversight and communication. This is not just for moderation concerns and actions, we also discuss trending/emerging issues, exploits, and bugs. Additionally, anyone appealing their moderation is asked to do via an appeals support ticket, so moderators do not even handle appeals.
    Edited by ZOS_AlanG on March 25, 2015 4:14PM
    Forum Rules | Promoting Constructive Discussion | Code of Conduct | Terms of Service | Help Site

    I’ve moved to a new position and I am no longer active on this forum. For assistance, please check the resources linked above
    Staff Post
  • Audigy
    Audigy
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    ZOS_AlanG wrote: »
    Hi everyone, please remember that we do not allow disciplinary actions to be discussed on the forums. This thread is for discussing the rules and their general enforcement, not specific examples.

    Thanks for your reply, it was not my intention to talk bad about a Mod or discuss this case here, sorry if it seemed like that.
  •  Jules
    Jules
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    It's really disturbing that if you go down the list of people who disagree with this post in one way or another, a lot of them are banned. People with 5 stars, 1000's of comments on these forums and time invested in this community. This seems like a rash and scary thing to implement. I thought forums were about sharing varied voices despite differences. Obviously if someone is being overtly abusive and swearing at someone, that's ban worthy. But to ban people for insulting ESO itself? How does that foster an open and cooperative community? How are people meant to feel comfortable to approach the company with constructive data if they're afraid they're going to lose their right to access the highly informative forums? Just seems like a slippery slope to all out censorship. And with the game going B2P and console players coming on board it looks like an attempt to put a shiny pretty surface on things for them moreso than for us. We have been here for almost a year playing this game. Some of us have put months of the last year (I'm at 100+ days on my main) into this game. Do we not deserve to be frustrated sometimes and express that to you guys without fear of being silenced? It's just disheartening. Especially when the moderation beforehand was on point. I had experienced a few times when people were abusive and they were dealt with. But the people who are still here through all of it truly love this game despite its flaws. It makes me sad that you feel the need to do this to the community.
    JULES | PC NA | ADAMANT

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  • Ysne58
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    maryriv wrote: »
    ...

    That is not completely true @maryriv . Research some of my posts, I've been very critical of some of the steps the devs have taken and I have not been banned yet. I suspect that moderation is probably much stricter than I would prefer, but since I have no way of knowing what actions are actually being taken, I cannot say for certain. We do need to be very careful about how we say what we say and I am trying my hardest not to cross that line. I believe I have succeeded so far.

    I think the policy needs to be more flexible than three strikes you are out and it doesn't matter how long ago the first strike was. Strikes should auto expire after a period of time. If the moderation is for really minor infractions, people should be allowed more than three strikes.

    I really hope the devs rethink this policy and make it more flexible.


    [Moderator Note: Removed moderated quote]
    Edited by ZOS_EveP on March 27, 2015 12:03PM
  • wraith808
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    maryriv wrote: »
    ...

    That's not true either. I've seen some quite informative and at the same time quite detrimental threads that were framed in a constructive manner that are open even to this day.


    [Moderator Note: Removed moderated quote]
    Edited by ZOS_EveP on March 27, 2015 12:03PM
    Quasim ibn-Muhammad - VR 12 Redguard Dragon Knight
    Taladriel Vanima - VR 5 Altmer Nightblade
    Ambalyo iyo Bogaadin - VR 1 Redguard Sorceror
  • Tapio75
    Tapio75
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    Until now, i did not even know of stricter moderation. I will not speak of actions taken towards me but after reading these new policies, i must admit i fear even now, that writing this post makes me suspectible for some kind of moderation action, i hope not, but the fear is there :(

    I have been member of many games communities for over 10 years now, i have been very active on forums discussing various stuff and critisising things even very strongly.. I have been critical about different companies actions in the game but in my history, this is the first game i have been contacted and moderated..

    I admit i get frustrated at times and that makes me angry which too often leads to calling names and such stupid behaviour but i also apologise as often as i can. I do apreciate stricter policies about hars language, trolling and flaming.. But being critical about game or company... The policies are wworded in such way, that i now fear being critical.. I wonder if i can even tell that something is... bad, in my opinion nor can i call company as general being something or something else..

    In the end, i am happy that user behaviour is moderated more, but i strongly suggest that talks about company or people at company are given more freedom of speech which in the end, should be everyones human right, no matter the wnvironment.. Being rude however is not everyones human right but telling what someone thinks about something or someone is as long as it is done in civilised manner.

    I do hope to continue using my posting priviledges as i do often have things i want being improven in the game or companys marketing policies but i dont like to be afraid of posting.
    >>PC-EU Mostly PVE. Played since BETA<<
  • Zlater
    Zlater
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    Hey is it possible to remove the 'Z' next to the threads you have moderated. There have been so many times I've gone sifting through a thread kinda expecting a cool comment by ZOS, only to realise my last five minutes concludes with a "please watch your language" post. Thanks ^^ -Zlater
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