Should ESO have a global trading system

Crumpy · August 2014

I would prefer a global auctioning house.

How, how is an overall AH bad??? Small scale is good but big scale scary n bad n bad n bad????

[snip]

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting comments]

Araflin · August 2014

I like the system as it is now (including the kiosks).

How about.. if guild hired traders could put up non-guild actions? (for a higher fee of course!)

So, no matter how socially inept or tied to the guilds you are in - you could always find a "local" outlet and not have a global AH.

grimjim398 · August 2014

I like the system as it is now (including the kiosks).

If you wanted to see some actual numbers you might have used the search feature to find the half a dozen other polls there have been on this subject. This is getting pretty tiresome, the same debate every week.

sotonin · August 2014

I would prefer a global auctioning house.

grimjim398 wrote: »

If you wanted to see some actual numbers you might have used the search feature to find the half a dozen other polls there have been on this subject. This is getting pretty tiresome, the same debate every week.

Yep. but it won't be going away until ZOS fixes the economic system so that it's not useless and discriminating.

spoqster · August 2014

I would like to see a hybrid solution (please specify in the comments).

sotonin wrote: »

SaiJinu wrote: »

ESO need an AH im begin to play the game and i need an easy way to sell/buy gear ..atn i got of items and is really hard to spam the chat to sell it

AH IS NEED ..especially for new players that have a difference in gear from the veterans

I agree. the current system is both highly fragmented and underutilized. It's underutilized because many people find it's utterly useless and just refuse to participate in it.

You have have 500 members of your trade guild and the guilds constantly cull the ranks for inactive folks. But there's absolutely no metric for them to cull the ranks based on auctions posted. So a huge majority of most trade guilds have a large member count of folks who join the guild just so they can have access to some stuff to buy, while not selling stuff at the same time. So it's actually quite impossible to reasonably manage your ranks and create an efficient guild.

Now i don't think this methodology for guilds is a good one or successful. I don't think people should be under constant fear of being booted for ANY reason, inactivity or not selling items, etc. But at the same time this is the system we exist in. So if they are forcing people into it, let them go the whole way and really refine who can stay in their guild. Why half ars it? Either ditch the system altogether and come up with one that actually gives folks a sizable audience to buy / sell to or improve the guild tools to identify people who are contributing to the economy or failing to.

Nothing in this economy of ESO makes any sense or was particularly well though out in the least.

I agree. The current system favors the power players. And the most vocal defenders of the current system in this thread have admitted to that.

I believe a game economy should cater to less active players as well. All those hundreds of thousands of players who buy or sell an item a week are still a very important part of the economy.

spoqster · August 2014

I would like to see a hybrid solution (please specify in the comments).

grimjim398 wrote: »

If you wanted to see some actual numbers you might have used the search feature to find the half a dozen other polls there have been on this subject. This is getting pretty tiresome, the same debate every week.

Feel free to ignore it. Looks like many people are joining the discussion, which to me is a sign that this is still a hot topic.

For me this thread is not about a global auction house per se. ZOS have stated that they will not implement one. To me this thread is about developing ideas towards a hybrid solution that is less fragmented than the current solution but not as impersonal and abstract as a global auctioning house.

I think ZOS are willing to improve on their system, and if the constant popping up of these polls will make them willing to go a few more steps towards less fragmentation, then it is well worth it.

I know they are working on a lot of things, but I believe besides new content fixing the economy is the most important thing they have to do.

Drazhar14 · August 2014

I don't even use the trading system. Never had a need to, since I've found everything I need myself, and I'm almost v12. So I have no opinion on this matter.

Anvos · September 2014

I would like to see a hybrid solution (please specify in the comments).

No but part of me thinks it might be better if their was the ability to search all the kiosks in a zone at once even if you still had to physically trek out to their stall afterwards.

sotonin · September 2014

I would prefer a global auctioning house.

Anvos wrote: »

No but part of me thinks it might be better if their was the ability to search all the kiosks in a zone at once even if you still had to physically trek out to their stall afterwards.

I agree. They should have a faction wide kiosk search tool at a very minimum. Tells you where they are located and you can find what you want then hope you are the first to get there and buy the item. ...

This is of course only a tiny bandaid for an already terrible system, Regional or global auction house is the only way to save this games economy

Tabbycat · September 2014

I would like to see a hybrid solution (please specify in the comments).

I honestly don't care either way. As long as players have the ability to buy and sell stuff, it's all good.

Alphashado · September 2014

I like the system as it is now (including the kiosks).

sotonin wrote: »

grimjim398 wrote: »

If you wanted to see some actual numbers you might have used the search feature to find the half a dozen other polls there have been on this subject. This is getting pretty tiresome, the same debate every week.

Yep. but it won't be going away until ZOS fixes the economic system so that it's not useless and discriminating.

Discrimination. I see this powerful word being casually tossed out there more and more often on this forum. Are we really to the point in society where we feel justified claiming discrimination every time something isn't specifically designed around our personal taste?

This is a trading system in a make believe world. Let's keep it real.

Tintaglia72 · September 2014

I like the system as it is now (including the kiosks).

Wizzo91 wrote: »

I really hoped the trading-kiosks would of improved the situation.. but they did not for most players.

What I really think? Trading in ESO is obsolete compared to other mmos.

Please use facts - by most players do you mean you didn't get an improvement?

I am in 3 very active trading guilds and I have not heard one person say they want a global auction house. Some might say so when I'm not on line but I haven't heard it. These are the reasons.

1 - The kiosks are new and exciting. Stuff flies off the shelf really quickly
2 - it controls bots. As in there aren't any because they can't spam a global AH
3 - if you can't be bothered to farm something (there is nothing wrong with that) then you either search a whole bunch of kiosks or you take the risk of buying it from the first you come across.

Most importantly, point 3 -if YOU choose, then YOU have a choice. The only thing Zen are restricting is YOU standing in front of a global AH and scanning and buying out the cheapest stuff. YOU are restricting yourself from enjoying the game in full.

I don't see the difference of this argument and someone saying 'I'm not playing anymore until Zen get's rid of PVP because I don't like it'.

Personally I love the kiosk system. Is it perfect? No I'm sure it isn't and it will improve over time. This is Kiosk 1.0.

Oh and the poll results also show that 'most players' disagree (true at the time of posting this.)

SaiJinu · September 2014

I would prefer a global auctioning house.

I am so sad .. i like this game and I look forward in my mind .. im gona be 50 and i will need to grind and farm and actually make my own armors because trading in this game is broke...
ohhh

and why ..i dont know why , why this is happen , usually games care about their players , not in this one it seem

ers101284b14_ESO · September 2014

I like the system as it is now (including the kiosks).

SaiJinu wrote: »

I am so sad .. i like this game and I look forward in my mind .. im gona be 50 and i will need to grind and farm and actually make my own armors because trading in this game is broke...
ohhh

and why ..i dont know why , why this is happen , usually games care about their players , not in this one it seem

verb
1.
past participle of break.
adjective
2.
reduced to fragments; fragmented.
3.
ruptured; torn; fractured.
4.
not functioning properly; out of working order.
5.
Meteorology. (of sky cover) being more than half, but not totally, covered by clouds.
Compare scattered (def 4).
6.
changing direction abruptly:
The fox ran in a broken line.
7.
fragmentary or incomplete:
a broken ton of coal weighing 1,500 pounds.
8.
infringed or violated:
A broken promise is a betrayal of trust.

Just checked and yep kiosks work just fine. I was able to look at a kiosk, search for what I want and purchase said item. Doesn't seem broken to me.

Update: Sold 3 items in the time it took me to post this.

MercyKilling · September 2014

I would prefer a global auctioning house.

Tintaglia72 wrote: »

2 - it controls bots. As in there aren't any because they can't spam a global AH

Seeing people make this statement over and over again makes me think they weren't around for the Great Bot Migrations. You literally could see them swarming over the landscapes, scarfing up resource nodes, auto-attacking mobs in the same pattern over and over and over again....they were in EVERY. SINGLE. PUBLIC. DUNGEON. AND. DELVE. Groups of them spamming the same templar spear attack the very MOMENT the boss of the delve spawned.

Now? I can run across an entire zone and never see a single bot.
I can run every delve and public dungeon in a zone and never see a single one.

I know they're not all gone, but damn, Zenimax did a really good job at culling their numbers drastically.

Your bot defense hasn't got a leg to stand on, methinks.

Alphashado · September 2014

I like the system as it is now (including the kiosks).

MercyKilling wrote: »

Tintaglia72 wrote: »

2 - it controls bots. As in there aren't any because they can't spam a global AH

Seeing people make this statement over and over again makes me think they weren't around for the Great Bot Migrations. You literally could see them swarming over the landscapes, scarfing up resource nodes, auto-attacking mobs in the same pattern over and over and over again....they were in EVERY. SINGLE. PUBLIC. DUNGEON. AND. DELVE. Groups of them spamming the same templar spear attack the very MOMENT the boss of the delve spawned.

Now? I can run across an entire zone and never see a single bot.
I can run every delve and public dungeon in a zone and never see a single one.

I know they're not all gone, but damn, Zenimax did a really good job at culling their numbers drastically.

Your bot defense hasn't got a leg to stand on, methinks.

There are many different things that contribute to the presence, or lack there of, bots. Including efforts made by programmers. But a global AH makes things super easy for them. GW2 is still struggling with them 2 years after launch. The bot argument against a global AH not only holds water, but has been proven and discussed at length there.

Just go to the GW2 forum and search "bots" and "trading post".

A global auction house where a million people are all using the same AH is a dream come true for gold farmers. Do some research. It's not a theaory. It's a reality that you guys would find out the hard way if ESO went to a global system.

spoqster · September 2014

I would like to see a hybrid solution (please specify in the comments).

Alphashado wrote: »

MercyKilling wrote: »

Tintaglia72 wrote: »

2 - it controls bots. As in there aren't any because they can't spam a global AH

Seeing people make this statement over and over again makes me think they weren't around for the Great Bot Migrations. You literally could see them swarming over the landscapes, scarfing up resource nodes, auto-attacking mobs in the same pattern over and over and over again....they were in EVERY. SINGLE. PUBLIC. DUNGEON. AND. DELVE. Groups of them spamming the same templar spear attack the very MOMENT the boss of the delve spawned.

Now? I can run across an entire zone and never see a single bot.
I can run every delve and public dungeon in a zone and never see a single one.

I know they're not all gone, but damn, Zenimax did a really good job at culling their numbers drastically.

Your bot defense hasn't got a leg to stand on, methinks.

There are many different things that contribute to the presence, or lack there of, bots. Including efforts made by programmers. But a global AH makes things super easy for them. GW2 is still struggling with them 2 years after launch. The bot argument against a global AH not only holds water, but has been proven and discussed at length there.

Just go to the GW2 forum and search "bots" and "trading post".

A global auction house where a million people are all using the same AH is a dream come true for gold farmers. Do some research. It's not a theaory. It's a reality that you guys would find out the hard way if ESO went to a global system.

I acknowledge that point. But I think there is room for a better compromise.

Should ESO get a completely global AH? I don't think so.
But is it possible to create an economical system that is less fragmented than the current system and thus provides more value to buyers and sellers, while at the same time keeping performance up, gold farmers at bay and make it immersive in terms of the Tamriel uinverse? I think that's possible, and I have a couple of ideas on how to do that.

The problem I see with this thread and many others is that it quickly descends into a discussion between pro AHlers and defenders of the current system. One party wants a single global AH, while the other party is defending the current system exactly as it is. This doesn't help anyone. Especially because it is mostly about repeating existing arguments. ZOS have thought long and hard about creating a global AH and they have their reasons not to do it.

I think our job as a community is to come up with creative ideas that they may NOT have thought about yet, simply because they are a small group of product managers and we are tens of thousands of users. If we develop the concept for a new hybrid system that is advantageous over the current system, does not have the problems of a global AH and both parties (pro and con AH) support it, then we are getting somewhere. That's when we're actually helping the developers.

SFBryan18 · September 2014

I would like to see a hybrid solution (please specify in the comments).

I feel this poll is bias because it is mainly about a global auction house, which is why I made a new poll with a very basic yes or no question for discussion about if the trade system in eso could be better:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/129896/do-you-like-the-current-trade-system-in-eso

Nazon_Katts · September 2014

I would like to see a hybrid solution (please specify in the comments).

Yep, for everyone who's got the benefit of access to a high traffic kiosk (Craglorn, Hubs), this system works out quite nicely. For all others not so much and for anyone wishing to sell in a convenient way without being guilded not at all.

And there's the problem. The system is broken because it only works for a minority of players and not for most. This creates second and third class traders and will cost subs as soon as people find out in which class they are. It already does, actually.

SFBryan18 · September 2014

I would like to see a hybrid solution (please specify in the comments).

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

Yep, for everyone who's got the benefit of access to a high traffic kiosk (Craglorn, Hubs), this system works out quite nicely. For all others not so much and for anyone wishing to sell in a convenient way without being guilded not at all.

And there's the problem. The system is broken because it only works for a minority of players and not for most. This creates second and third class traders and will cost subs as soon as people find out in which class they are. It already does, actually.

Thank you. Exactly what I've been saying.

Tintaglia72 · September 2014

I like the system as it is now (including the kiosks).

MercyKilling wrote: »

Tintaglia72 wrote: »

2 - it controls bots. As in there aren't any because they can't spam a global AH

Seeing people make this statement over and over again makes me think they weren't around for the Great Bot Migrations. You literally could see them swarming over the landscapes, scarfing up resource nodes, auto-attacking mobs in the same pattern over and over and over again....they were in EVERY. SINGLE. PUBLIC. DUNGEON. AND. DELVE. Groups of them spamming the same templar spear attack the very MOMENT the boss of the delve spawned.

Now? I can run across an entire zone and never see a single bot.
I can run every delve and public dungeon in a zone and never see a single one.

I know they're not all gone, but damn, Zenimax did a really good job at culling their numbers drastically.

Your bot defense hasn't got a leg to stand on, methinks.

Actually it does. And yes I was there for the Great Bot Migration, In this game and others. Why do you think that almost all of them have gone? Yes Zen have done an amazing job, no argument there from me. But as with other games, just because you don't see the bots in game you still get the gold selling spam's. We don't. What are common elements? They all have global AH's that they can hack peoples accounts, sell the stuff for gold on the AH's and then they transfer the money to other accounts and bob's your uncle you have gold websites. Before you say that is not how it works, it is, I've been hacked before, I've had isp traces done on my account before and it went from Australia (where I am) to China and then the good ole' US of A. Why do you think games have authenticators etc now to ensure you are not logging in on P.C's across the planet.

Global AH's do encourage bot's. They also encourage farming companies. Companies that employ people in working situations that we would not allow in a first world country. They farm for 12/14/16 hours a day to sell the stuff on a global AH because it is EASY. People are lazy and want to hit a button and get there stuffz now... WE WANT MOAR!!!!!!

I have nothing against AH's if that is what a game has... I'm not stupid, I know the hacks and I know what people do to get their money to by that super dooper epic lootz that they don't want to farm. However this game doesn't have a global AH, I hope it never does. It is refreshing and different.

Nazon_Katts · September 2014

I would like to see a hybrid solution (please specify in the comments).

The current system still has the inherent problem of locking most people out and producing super rich guilds and players as those will be the only ones who can participate conveniently in this game's economy.

Themepark MMOs are top heavy. So are the markets in them. In ESO's case this means VR cap (Season cap with CS). There's only a small number of vendors people will travel to at cap, to which only a small number of people will have selling access to.

This will end up in an endgame bubble economy with just as inflated prices as you can see in other games utilizing global AHs, but controlled by a few select guilds. The gap between rich and poor will be even worse than in those, since low level players will have their own, less inflated bubble.

That's a certain benefit, but it won't last much longer than till endgame, when players encounter the true market the first time and can't afford scrap anymore. And if we should have learned anything from ESO's past, then that you better don't make people hit a brick wall come endgame.

So either ESO's market system has to be less player driven - for instance sell/buy via NPC Merchants at given prices calculated by the system - or has to be more transparent and accessible by the bulk of the player base.

The latter could be achieved by simply allowing buy orders on kiosks, move them all to a few central hubs (preferably ones where everyone has to travel to, the lowbie same as the vet) and raise the member cap on trading guilds (preferably alongside much needed tools for members and leaders alike to make that a truly stand alone and seperated system to 'normal' guilds - perhaps in their own slots even).

Personally, I wouldn't even mind throwing the AvA a bone and move all kiosks in exactly one place and that place only; the Imperial City's market district.

But that particular solution might be rather unpopular, so a more feasible version could be to offer this in addition to and not instead of, but with the bonus of having it all in one place and maybe an overall search function included.

Cherryblossom · September 2014

I would prefer a global auctioning house.

I sadly don't take any notice of the Trade networks anymore, it's too time consuming to visit lots of area's to find what you want.
So I do without.
IMO Auction house is a good thing, it's simple and easy to use.

spoqster · September 2014

I would like to see a hybrid solution (please specify in the comments).

To me it has become clear that neither the current system nor a global AH are a good idea. For everyone who is interested in developing a concept towards a less fragmented but still not entirely global trading system I have created this thread:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/129928/improving-eso-s-trading-system

Feel free to join the discussion.

Alphashado · September 2014

I like the system as it is now (including the kiosks).

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

Yep, for everyone who's got the benefit of access to a high traffic kiosk (Craglorn, Hubs), this system works out quite nicely. For all others not so much and for anyone wishing to sell in a convenient way without being guilded not at all.

And there's the problem. The system is broken because it only works for a minority of players and not for most. This creates second and third class traders and will cost subs as soon as people find out in which class they are. It already does, actually.

The system isn't perfect, but I don't understand how it only works for a "minority" of players. You are only being excluded from the system if you refuse to join a trading guild with a kiosk. You can't watch zone chat for 10 mins w/o seeing a trading guild recruiting more people.

The system is easily accessible for everyone. Suggesting that it is only working for a "minority" of players is outlandish. Even if you simply go by the results of this poll.

You are standing at a door, stubbornly cursing the door for blocking your path. When all you have to do is open the door and walk through it.

grimjim398 · September 2014

I like the system as it is now (including the kiosks).

http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Diablo-3-Real-Money-Gold-Auction-Houses-Shut-Down-62861.html

Old news, but provides some good reasons that the auction house was a bad idea.

Cherryblossom · September 2014

I would prefer a global auctioning house.

Ok how about a Trade system in every town, where you can buy or sell what you have.
i.e for DC Daggerfall Market would mainly have level 1-15 items and and Wayrest would have 15-25 items.
This would generally mean that you would find items for your Level in these towns and this would avoid the massive AH system some seem to want to avoid.

Currently You have to join a guild, this is not an option you HAVE TO if you want to sell on a Market, this is not playing the way you want to.

Nazon_Katts · September 2014

I would like to see a hybrid solution (please specify in the comments).

@Alphashado there's about 120 kiosks, iirc. That's max 60k slots. Not taking into account that only a fifth of those are in high traffic areas and people occupy up to 5 slots. By design, it excludes the majority of the player base.

ers101284b14_ESO · September 2014

I like the system as it is now (including the kiosks).

As i said in another thread

"I like my sells to actually be worth something. If a global AH gets put in its gonna drive prices way down. Remember at launch when people where selling vampire bites for 10k? What happened? More and more
People got the bite so more people could sell the bite but fewer needed it now you can barely even give them away. Considering anyone can collect any material and make any item on their character there are not many rare items. What's rare right now? Recipes and high end motifs. And when people see that they will farm the crap out of theme what happens when supply goes up but demand doesn't? Prices drop. You can argue about the trade guilds all you want but that's exactly what's going to happen. You'll put rare items on the AH but the other 10,000
People with rare items will also have them so you'll have to lower your price to sell but when you do that they will lower their price to compete so you'll have to undercut to sell but they will just undercut to be competitive. After all the undercutting your rare items will be near worthless.NO AH!"

sotonin · September 2014

I would prefer a global auctioning house.

Tintaglia72 wrote: »

Wizzo91 wrote: »

I really hoped the trading-kiosks would of improved the situation.. but they did not for most players.

What I really think? Trading in ESO is obsolete compared to other mmos.

2 - it controls bots. As in there aren't any because they can't spam a global AH

Load of bs. try oh i dont know searching google for eso bots. You'll see a few very active and thriving forums. There are still plenty of bots. Just the blatant bot trains from gold farming chinese folks have left,