Improving ESO's trading system

spoqster

This thread is meant as a discussion that facilitates a creative process towards improving ESO's existing trading system.

This is NOT meant as a discussion between pro global AH people vs. pro current system people. There are plenty of threads for that, we don't need to repeat the same arguments here. Finding a good solution that is neither a global AH nor the current system is obviously hard, so I am looking only for positive, creative input. Let's go about this with a CAN DO attitude.

I believe it is possible to create an economical system that is

• less fragmented than the current system and thus provides more value to buyers and sellers,
• performs well for hundreds of thousands of users,
• keeps gold farmers at bay, and
• is immersive and fits the Tamriel universe.

Here are two existing proposals I know about

• Consignment vendors
• Use NPC merchants

which are a bit similar in nature.

Feel free to add your proposals or link other existing ones, and then we can use those as a starting point for a fruitful discussion. I am looking forward to developing a workable concept with all of you over the coming weeks.

SFBryan18

An idea I posted about what could be done:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/127759/hirelings-and-kiosks-an-idea-for-the-smaller-merchants

KhajitFurTrader

While I would admit that there is of course always room for UI improvement (e.g. consistent search parameters over different vendor windows, or a history of the last performed searches), I propose that the current system as it is now

• is not as fragmented or inconvenient as it is made out to be by some,
• already performs well for hundreds of thousands of users, or else it wouldn't have come into existence in the first place,
• keeps gold sellers at bay (if there are any left at all, haven't seen ads/spam in ages)
• is immersive and fits in well. Especially the rows of vendors in lager cities feel like "going to the market". Improvement idea: if vendor owners could choose between different vendor personalities (implying different voice acting for attracting buyers), this would make for an even more colorful atmosphere.

I would go as far as to assume that due to the diversity of the current system, both buyers and sellers are protected; sellers are protected from obvious, globally visible undercutting and thus from losing opportunities of selling their wares, while buyers are protected from price cartels and/or the forming of mono/oligopolies.

Yes, the current system does not and will not ever have the convenience or amenities of a global AH or vendors with only one category of wares, but it will also never have its disadvantages, too.

Elsonso

I am not so concerned about fragmentation and lack of global knowledge. The real-world lived with fragmentation for thousands of years. The ability to know what is happening anywhere in the world almost instantly is a byproduct of the information age and is a very recent thing.

What I am primarily concerned about is market access. The guild traders work fine for what they do. That is not to say that there are not issues. As soon as there are more guilds with guild stores that want traders than there are traders in the world, market access becomes a problem.

I am fine with people needing to join guilds for the purpose of accessing a market. This is a social hurdle that I think most people can accomplish. It isn't a barrier imposed by the game as much as a barrier imposed by the player. It is also a common practice that still happens today in the real world.

The problem I see is when a guild consistently cannot access the market. To make better market access, for guilds, and therefore for the members, I have contemplated these things:

• Make bidding more transparent, allow other guilds to see the current bid, and allow guilds to change, or retract, the bid at any time.
• Extend duration of the guild trader from 7 days to 14 days in order to establish more stability, make it less of a chore to retain guild traders, and make it so that customers have less churn.

I am not so much interested in UI changes to make the guild traders work better. I recommend Shopkeeper for people who are selling items and Awesome Guild Store for people who regularly use the guild stores. If any of the features of these add-ons makes it into the base game, that will be a good thing.

Market access for individuals is an issue that centers primarily around the idea of being able to access a guild that is active in getting guild traders. While the suggestions for guilds I outlined above will help, it will definitely be an issue for some.

My idea here is basically an NPC guild. Each major city has one or two guild traders that are permanently linked to an NPC guild that is part of the game, not a player institution. The guild would always sell from the same kiosk and the guild store would work exactly as it does today for guilds.

Players could join a limited number of these guilds by going to the guild store and joining. I am thinking that it would simply take up one of the 5 guilds. (edit: same guild membership limit of 500)

These guilds would have to have some sort of membership criteria that would be used to cull out slackers. Things I can think of include an active account, login frequency requirements (30 days), having an item in the store, etc. Of course, a player could leave the guild at any time.

I have pondered open-to-the-public local auction houses in major cities with the "standard" 12, 24, and 48 hour postings and no "buy out" option. I no longer thing that anything like this is a good idea. It simply does not fit into the existing market system.

I also have read many of the other ideas presented in other threads. I think that something that stays within the existing system is best.

yiasemi

Have stuff to buy with your imaginary money, I need a reason. Anything I need I can currently make, or sell at minimum to buy.

AshySamurai

IMO fragmintation of all market is bery good for prices.
Why not just allow to players hire one NPC merchant and sell there if they want? Or maybe one merchant can be hired by 5 players at once. He stands in one place in town. Each player can hire only one npc. Each player need re-hire merchant every 7 days. It could solve problems for those, who dont want to join guild but don't affect existing guilds. But I dont think this is very usefull because ZOS gave to us an aportunity to join guilds.

TehMagnus

FIx UI, allow to search for items, allow to save searches, allow to search in all guilds at once.

It's acceptable for a system in a game to be complex. It's not acceptable for the User Interface to be so hard and tedious to use.

ItsMeToo

Using the current trading system, have a way to list where each guild is currently trading. This way you can follow your favorite trading guilds each week where you like to shop. You don't have to be a member of a guild. This just shows where they are trading and where you can buy items or just window shop.

For people that don't want to deal with guilds or guild traders, have the merchants be able to be bartered with. Let players haggle over prices, both selling and buying. Have a new skill tree for bartering. The better the bartering skills the better the prices. The merchant only deals with their preferred inventory, (i.e. Armor Merchants only deal with armor, Food Merchants only deal with food, etc.).

Elsonso

ItsMeToo wrote: »

Using the current trading system, have a way to list where each guild is currently trading. This way you can follow your favorite trading guilds each week where you like to shop.

As a seller, I would obviously like this. I know that there are people who are looking for what I am selling, and I keep that stuff in stock.

As a buyer, I guess I have not found myself enthralled to any one guild. I am more interested in what kiosks are around me.

I cannot imagine a mechanic for finding out where a guild is located, though.

jonpaul

Maybe it's far-fetched but there could be a central trading hub for each faction? An area where buyers and traders may gather and even "advertise" their kiosk in some way? It would still have the feel of a sort of AH but at the same time have the individuality of a guild trader. I doubt this will ever happen but it's a thought for imagination land.

It would be like going to the mall! (Of course I do hate the mall)

Rodario

It's dangerous to go alone. Here, take this proposal http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/129821/tweak-to-the-guild-trader-system-regional-markets

GnatB

Add an NPC crafting guild. Add a new passive in each profession that allows you to join the guild (at a certain skill level)

The crafting guild would have an NPC where any player can walk up to and place a "buy order" for a crafted item, specifying motif, level, trait, set, upgrade level, quantity (for food/potions) etc. and price being offered. Price is immediately deducted from account.

Non-members of the guild would be able to view completed sales (in order to get an idea on pricing) Members of the guild would be able to accept orders. (possibly a limit on how many at a time?) Once accepted, an order is removed from display. (or perhaps just marked "in progress?") If the crafter fails to fulfill the order in an hour, he loses the opportunity to complete it, and it goes back on display. At any crafting station, a crafter can view his orders pending fulfillment and, if he has the correct item, mail it to receive the money. However a crafter has to actually be in town/at the guild to view available orders. So for set orders, the crafter has an hour to make it to the set station and craft the item. He doesn't have to try to get back to town in time)

Buyers, as long as a crafter hasn't yet claimed an order, can cancel their orders at any time, receiving their money back.

spoqster

GnatB wrote: »

Add an NPC crafting guild. Add a new passive in each profession that allows you to join the guild (at a certain skill level)

The crafting guild would have an NPC where any player can walk up to and place a "buy order" for a crafted item, specifying motif, level, trait, set, upgrade level, quantity (for food/potions) etc. and price being offered. Price is immediately deducted from account.

Non-members of the guild would be able to view completed sales (in order to get an idea on pricing) Members of the guild would be able to accept orders. (possibly a limit on how many at a time?) Once accepted, an order is removed from display. (or perhaps just marked "in progress?") If the crafter fails to fulfill the order in an hour, he loses the opportunity to complete it, and it goes back on display. At any crafting station, a crafter can view his orders pending fulfillment and, if he has the correct item, mail it to receive the money. However a crafter has to actually be in town/at the guild to view available orders. So for set orders, the crafter has an hour to make it to the set station and craft the item. He doesn't have to try to get back to town in time)

Buyers, as long as a crafter hasn't yet claimed an order, can cancel their orders at any time, receiving their money back.

That's a great idea.

AlnilamE

lordrichter wrote: »

The problem I see is when a guild consistently cannot access the market. To make better market access, for guilds, and therefore for the members, I have contemplated these things:

• Make bidding more transparent, allow other guilds to see the current bid, and allow guilds to change, or retract, the bid at any time.
• Extend duration of the guild trader from 7 days to 14 days in order to establish more stability, make it less of a chore to retain guild traders, and make it so that customers have less churn.

I have to disagree with both of those. I like the blind bidding system. I think if a guild is consistently not able to get a trader, then they are bidding in the wrong place for them. Everybody wants the downtown traders and often traders outside of town don't have any bids put on them (my theory is that the traders that don't have a guild store this week were ones where no guild placed a bid on them.) But out of town traders get business too. They tend to be located near wayshrines and close to quest hubs.

I'm also ok with the 7-day cycle as that will allow more guilds access to traders. I do hope that ZOS will add more guild traders. I have seen empty carts around some of the trading areas that lead me to believe this will be the case.

I would like to see improvements to the guild store UI to make items easier to filter for both when buying and selling.