Should ESO have a global trading system

Makkir

I like the system as it is now (including the kiosks).

PETA is going to be all over this post. Poor horse..

Makkir

I like the system as it is now (including the kiosks).

Everyone arguing FOR a global Auction House is just clueless. I don't even listen to their arguments anymore. Some of the most unintelligible things I have ever heard.

For the last time, you don't want a global AH in Elder Scrolls Online.

-You guys have numerous markets under the current system, only one market under a global Auction House.
-The best gear in the game requires crafters, not 25 man raids
-Materials are available in unlimited supply (because nodes respawn)
-Armor does not break, it is not consumed which means demand is somewhat limited (Once you have your suit of armor you're not going to be replacing it, and for Captain Literal who is likely to respond to this- The exception of course is when there's a raise in level cap or VR rank)
-Legendary mats come from decon'ing raw material
- NPC's offer you 400 gold per stack of materials meaning a global AH would eventually lower the price per stack to 401gold (You're not very bright if taking this figure literally...realistically the price would be a bit higher taking into consideration the AH cut...so stacks would be priced so the profit is 401g)

If you can't see the correlation between these bullet points, you're doing it wrong.

Makkir

I like the system as it is now (including the kiosks).

Wizzo91 wrote: »

But there is no valid argument against implementing an auction house

There's plenty. It's laughable at all the Auction House fanboys on here. Yeah it worked wonderfully in a couple other MMOs. But that's almost as credible as saying "Hey, this Advantix Flea medicine for 60lb canines worked great on my Dog! Let me put it on my cat now!"

Elder Scrolls Online is a stand alone MMO. Your gear does not come from raiding, it comes from crafting (Even if you wear looted pieces, you need crafters to upgrade it to legendary status). Due to the fact your armor does not break or is consumed, bringing a Global Auction House to a game economy that centers around crafters is suicide.

The large percentage of you who want an Auction House are not die hard crafters. You're typical instant gratification seeking new age MMO'ers spoiled by the EZ Mode standard Blizzard has set for modern day games. Those of us who were around for earlier MMOs, remember the effort required to sell wares was almost the time investment you spent out collecting them. Finding a deal in the East Commonlands was almost as exciting as seeing purple in your loot box.

But I don't blame you, the instant gratification mindset is pretty much what sells in America today anyway. I think it's pretty selffish when people say "I don't want to waste time selling and looking for items, I just want to list it and go back to questing/raiding. What about the crafters who play strictly to provide a service for the rest of you, or actually enjoy crafting and making a business? Why in a game centered around us, must you demand ZOS dumb down our game experience?

spoqster

I would like to see a hybrid solution (please specify in the comments).

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

When your priorities are like mine, looking at the overall enjoyment and comprehensiveness of the system, then it's no longer a choice between cake or death. It's more a choice between 'too easy' and 'just right'. There is such a thing as a bed too soft, an ice cream too sweet, and a steak too thick. There is such a thing as too much of a good thing.

So what do you think of the recent lowering of the VR difficulty level then? In my opinion they could make fighting harder and the economy more streamlined.

Fighting is supposed to be a challenge, a measure of skill. In terms of the economy, the interesting part is to figure out how to build your character, how to combine specific sets.

Now think about what they are doing with the game:

• They decreased the difficulty level, so that the interesting part of fighting is gone and now it just feels like grinding. I basically walk through the world spamming my 3 button.
• They make it tiresome to buy and sell items. Which means I can't even get to the point of figuring out how best to combine my items in a smart way, but instead I am wasting time in the pre-stages of that process.

It all boils down to ZOS applying a focus that is very different from mine. I am a rather intelligent gamer who has fun solving riddles, beating challenges and gets incredibly annoyed if a part of a game is repetitive and artificially constrained. ZOS are clearly aiming their game at players who get frustrated with more challenging problems and enjoy repetitive tasks.

I have no intention of offending you, but do you really consider the current economic system challenging in any way? There is no intelligence required to be good at it, just leg work. Me personally I would rather sit in a soft chair and solving complex problems, rather than sitting in a hard chair solving trivial problems.

spoqster

I would like to see a hybrid solution (please specify in the comments).

Xabien wrote: »

These things are meant to be hard, anything rare should be rare, decent weapons and armor should come at a cost (time and money) to find if you're not inclined to craft your own.

Costing money is fine. Time, why? I am playing this game to have fun, not to be annoyed. If I want to have a hard time buying things, then I'll go on eBay and try to find a designer couch for 10 bucks and get annoyed if I don't find it.
In this case, I am playing a computer game I have paid for in the little time I have after work. If I can't buy the sword I want although there are hundreds of people out there selling it, just because the producer of the game is making it intentionally hard for me to find it so he can conceal conceptual problems in his game, then that is just ridiculous.

Xabien wrote: »

Not only that, the current system prevents rapid inflation and as for chat trading - yeah a bit annoying at times but often it's pretty much the only conversation going on in zone anyway, at least it encourages people to talk to one another.

Inflation is not caused by a free market and a fluid economy. If calcinium ingots are worthless in an AH, then that is ok. If ZOS wants to avoid that, they can spawn less ore. If they don't want to do that they can make it more expensive to craft items with it, or they can allow the use of ingots to repair items. Etc.

Xabien wrote: »

On the junk - yeah some ppl are terrible at trading, that wouldn't change with a global AH though.

There are ways to avoid that. An easy way is - as @Sord suggested - to limit the number of listings per item, limit the listing time and allow other players to "cut in line" by offering the same item at a cheaper price.
All these problems that people are worried about when thinking of a global AH can be solved with a little bit of intelligence and creativity.
ZOS is generally doing not the best job at standing on the shoulders of giants.

Xabien wrote: »

On the green items - really the only ones worth selling that aren't part of a set are those with traits, the traits are the reason they aren't all 70g.

I just went online to test your theory. I am missing two traits in heavy armor, one on boots, one on pauldrons. I searched through 15 guild vendors listing hundreds of heavy armor items. I did not find a single item with one of the two traits. Assuming that these traits are not only rare for me personally but in general - otherwise I should have come across them since I never throw anything away - the hundreds of items I looked through are not only junk from my perspective, but from the perspective of other players as well.

bertenburnyb16_ESO

I would like to see a hybrid solution (please specify in the comments).

a way for buy orders would be nice,
for my templar I was searching for Indarys Ensemble Set items (ringss and R staff that increase healing done by 8%, only dropping in VR dung) and its practicly impossible to find em, spamming mapchat and goin around multiple kiosks on several maps, several times

but well with VR14 on the way its kinda an obsolete set now so nevermind
(yet another issue with the constant VR increase, some dropped sets are only for specific VR lvls, making em useless, but thats a whole other topic)

spoqster

I would like to see a hybrid solution (please specify in the comments).

magnusnet wrote: »

Global AH is and always will be a bad thing for the end consumer. Kiosks are fine, it creates an economy and if you really want to get into merchandising, there's a lot of interesting things to do.

Do you have a single argument to back your claim?

kwisatz

I would like to see a hybrid solution (please specify in the comments).

Although my small guild doesn't have access to, I like the current store system.
I'd like to see, though, something like "special sales days" or "monthly worldwide market" where everyone would have access and could sale his stuff during limited time.

spoqster

I would like to see a hybrid solution (please specify in the comments).

Makkir wrote: »

Due to the fact your armor does not break or is consumed, bringing a Global Auction House to a game economy that centers around crafters is suicide.

That is just an empty statement. Do you have any arguments to back that up?

Makkir wrote: »

Those of us who were around for earlier MMOs, remember the effort required to sell wares was almost the time investment you spent out collecting them. Finding a deal in the East Commonlands was almost as exciting as seeing purple in your loot box.

I can't believe what kind of standard you are applying here. Do you have a job? Can you imagine running around in a fake world for two hours after a 10 hour day just to sell a virtual item you created inside a game? Do you have any idea how ridiculous that sounds? If you have to stand in the street trying to sell something to other people for hours every day to earn real money to feed your children, then I would tell you to get a better job. If you are telling me you enjoy doing that in a game, then I will spend the next three years trying to understand that. Whatever floats your boat, though.

Ashtaris

I like the system as it is now (including the kiosks).

Although I voted for "I like the system as it is now" with the Kiosks, the store sales interface definitely needs lots of improvements. I really want a search where I can type in something like: "light armor divines" and it gives me a list of items matching those terms. The current dropdown list method is klunky and slow to use. Although I don't think a universal search throughout all of Tamriel is a great idea, perhaps we can have a localized search of all the Kiosks in the town or area you are in?

Dovhakiin

I would prefer a global auctioning house.

Come on people...the way it is now, it WAS working in short term(in fact ,I agreed with that), but it doesn't look like its working in long terms,we need a Global Auctioning or Global Trade somehow(hybrid solution or not,but we need something different) ...I dont want to join Random generic Merc guilds 1 by 1 looking for what I want like a Nomad or ask Zone per Zone,also , a global auctioning means more competition,I am tired of seeing overpriced stuff in 1 guild and when I join another guild I see a cheaper price...these dem die-hards are going to kill this game.

Jankstar

I like the system as it is now (including the kiosks).

Probitas wrote: »

Of course it should, the system we have now is unworkable, or rather, not working at all really. You can't easily find buyers or sellers. Guild vendors only sell, they do not buy, and that's not what a proper vendor is in my mind. If you are using the term as it's applied to vending machines, where transactions are one way only, then yes, it's working wonderfully. (that's sarcasm btw)

I sometimes wonder if this game is just a big science experiment to see how much design BS people can stomach.

Vendor refers to a supplier of goods, the word you are looking for is monger.

spoqster

I would like to see a hybrid solution (please specify in the comments).

Ashtaris wrote: »

Although I voted for "I like the system as it is now" with the Kiosks, the store sales interface definitely needs lots of improvements. I really want a search where I can type in something like: "light armor divines" and it gives me a list of items matching those terms. The current dropdown list method is klunky and slow to use. Although I don't think a universal search throughout all of Tamriel is a great idea, perhaps we can have a localized search of all the Kiosks in the town or area you are in?

try the addon awesome guild store: http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info695-AwesomeGuildStore.html

Jankstar

I like the system as it is now (including the kiosks).

I like that some people seem to think that having an auction house will mean their junk will suddenly sell.

Cuyler

I like the system as it is now (including the kiosks).

Just fix the store search engine. make it so it defaults to all items then allow us to apply the filters for looking for specific items.

SFBryan18

I would like to see a hybrid solution (please specify in the comments).

I just want to be able to sell my *** without a huge hassle. Is that so much to ask for?

Ashtaris

I like the system as it is now (including the kiosks).

spoqster wrote: »

Ashtaris wrote: »

Although I voted for "I like the system as it is now" with the Kiosks, the store sales interface definitely needs lots of improvements. I really want a search where I can type in something like: "light armor divines" and it gives me a list of items matching those terms. The current dropdown list method is klunky and slow to use. Although I don't think a universal search throughout all of Tamriel is a great idea, perhaps we can have a localized search of all the Kiosks in the town or area you are in?

try the addon awesome guild store: http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info695-AwesomeGuildStore.html

Thanks, I'll check it out

Makkir

I like the system as it is now (including the kiosks).

spoqster wrote: »

I can't believe what kind of standard you are applying here. Do you have a job? Can you imagine running around in a fake world for two hours after a 10 hour day just to sell a virtual item you created inside a game? Do you have any idea how ridiculous that sounds? If you have to stand in the street trying to sell something to other people for hours every day to earn real money to feed your children, then I would tell you to get a better job. If you are telling me you enjoy doing that in a game, then I will spend the next three years trying to understand that. Whatever floats your boat, though.

You know how ridiculous you sound bringing a real life example to a virtual world? Many of us play games to escape and get away from real lives for a bit. Some of us like running virtual businesses. Some don't. It's part of the challenge. These tools of convenience take away from the game just as much as you think they add to it.

And instead of quoting me out of context, you could avoid wasting everyone's time by actually reading the bullet point arguments I've already presented.
I have been posting on these forums since around release, and I have over and over again made the Anti-AH argument rather clear...every time a thread like this pops up.

But to quote your own words, this argument is actually "empty." ZOS already said they are against an AH, so argue for one until your brain explodes. It ain't happening. It's one thing they're doing correctly.

spoqster

I would like to see a hybrid solution (please specify in the comments).

Makkir wrote: »

And instead of quoting me out of context, you could avoid wasting everyone's time by actually reading the bullet point arguments I've already presented.
I have been posting on these forums since around release, and I have over and over again made the Anti-AH argument rather clear...every time a thread like this pops up.

Do you have a link for me? I am honestly trying to understand the arguments for the current system. From my point of view it is so absurd, that I cannot relate at all. I am assuming ZOS have put smart minds behind this, so it must be understandable.

Makkir wrote: »

But to quote your own words, this argument is actually "empty." ZOS already said they are against an AH, so argue for one until your brain explodes. It ain't happening. It's one thing they're doing correctly.

I believe in a world that constantly evolves, and I believe people are able to accept that they've made mistakes and are willing to move on.

sotonin

I would prefer a global auctioning house.

Xabien wrote: »

sotonin wrote: »

seanolan wrote: »

Oh FFS not this daedra-bedamned topic again.

It's not going away until ZOS does something to rectify the situation.

There's nothing to rectify, it works exactly as it's meant to!

Yes. it is. which is exactly terrible. Hence the problem.

Dovhakiin

I would prefer a global auctioning house.

Not enough competition hurts the economy as well...500 people(which I dont think all of them will sell stuff) and 5 guild limit (a total of 2500 people),using /z chat is a pain as well, and kiosks are not enough. I prefer Global Auctions rather than what we have now, a new idea or an hybrid solution might be way more helpful,but the way things are now,ARE NOT working. It was working before,but not anymore...I can barely find everything I need.

sotonin

I would prefer a global auctioning house.

Dovhakiin wrote: »

Not enough competition hurts the economy as well...500 people(which I dont think all of them will sell stuff) and 5 guild limit (a total of 2500 people),using /z chat is a pain as well, and kiosks are not enough. I prefer Global Auctions rather than what we have now, a new idea or an hybrid solution might be way more helpful,but the way things are now,ARE NOT working. It was working before,but not anymore...I can barely find everything I need.

I can't find *anything* i'm looking for. So i just stopped using the stores altogether... But yeah, working as intended... *chuckle*

Dovhakiin

I would prefer a global auctioning house.

What I was trying to say is,maybe if we had global auction ,I could be able to actually find what am looking for at the right time and not going to take hours or even days searching for an item...

PharmaChief

I like the system as it is now (including the kiosks).

to explain my vote...
i like the system as it is now

GnatB

I would prefer a global auctioning house.

Makkir wrote: »

Everyone arguing FOR a global Auction House is just clueless. I don't even listen to their arguments anymore. Some of the most unintelligible things I have ever heard.

For the last time, you don't want a global AH in Elder Scrolls Online.

-You guys have numerous markets under the current system, only one market under a global Auction House.
-The best gear in the game requires crafters, not 25 man raids
-Materials are available in unlimited supply (because nodes respawn)
-Armor does not break, it is not consumed which means demand is somewhat limited (Once you have your suit of armor you're not going to be replacing it, and for Captain Literal who is likely to respond to this- The exception of course is when there's a raise in level cap or VR rank)
-Legendary mats come from decon'ing raw material
- NPC's offer you 400 gold per stack of materials meaning a global AH would eventually lower the price per stack to 401gold (You're not very bright if taking this figure literally...realistically the price would be a bit higher taking into consideration the AH cut...so stacks would be priced so the profit is 401g)

If you can't see the correlation between these bullet points, you're doing it wrong.

So what you're saying is stuff will be cheap and plentiful if they fix it to be a global AH, except for the "rare" dropped stuff.

GOOD. (Of course, I'd argue it already is cheap and plentiful, it's just frequently a PITA to find)

And yes, I am a crafter. Crafting in *this* game, however, is a joke. There's nothing really worth selling, since anybody can pretty much make the worthwhile stuff themselves. There's no interdependancy, there's no specialization, and deconstructing stuff you find is the best way to learn.

That said, what this game needs *far* more than a global AH is buy orders.


P.S. Never even occured to me that people would actually buy processed mats for more than the NPC merchants. I just don't see the demand there. You want the raw mats for extraction. The processed mats are the refuse.

Makkir

I like the system as it is now (including the kiosks).

spoqster wrote: »

I believe in a world that constantly evolves, and I believe people are able to accept that they've made mistakes and are willing to move on.

I wish you could've sold that concept to S.O.E before they dumped all over my game.

Makkir

I like the system as it is now (including the kiosks).

spoqster wrote: »

Do you have a link for me?

It was just a few posts up:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/comment/1233393/#Comment_1233393

Makkir

I like the system as it is now (including the kiosks).

GnatB wrote: »

P.S. Never even occured to me that people would actually buy processed mats for more than the NPC merchants. I just don't see the demand there. You want the raw mats for extraction. The processed mats are the refuse.

@‌GnatB

Well you need processed mats to craft stuff. I was buying stacks when this game launched so I could level Clothing by crafting white gear....before I realized deconning was faster.

Also, a large portion of players took a roller coaster to VR12 before they finished out their professions to 50. In fact, a large base percentage of the PvP player base don't even bother with crafting (Just ask sometime). To them it's worth their investment to spend all their time in game playing and letting someone else craft their gear at a premium. I don't think crafting is a joke either. Not like it is in other games, take World of WarCraft where no one even wears crafted armor since it's easily replaced in LFR versions of armor to which everyone has access. At least in this game we don't have raids, so there is a demand for crafters to provide the end game gear. Since Legendary gear doesn't drop, it comes from crafting upgrades.

You can't just install an AH in this game's current state and expect it to work. Just like you can't just "not have" an AH without several other important features for that system to work. A lot of systems are tied into each other and you can't alter one with altering the other. I think if an auction house were introduced I would like to see gear permanently break over time so it would be consumed. But I know a lot of players wouldn't favor that option. In other words, you can't have a system (AH) where there would be unlimited crafting resources but the end product isn't consumed, it's kind of a bottleneck (not sure if I like that word). With an Auction House, what's going to happen in another 6 months when everyone has all the motifs, recipes, and yellow gear but an enormous amount of gold is still being put into the economy (via quests, pvp rewards, etc)? You end up with thousands of players sitting on 100k+ gold with nothing to buy other than repairs and consumables. Food, Potions, etc.

To touch on something you mentioned, yes anyone can be a crafter because there are too many skill points available in the game. Demand would increase if skill points were suddenly cut in half because instead of having say 1000 level 50 clothiers online there might only be 200.

So let's examine some of these conclusions so far and some that I have added
- Need more gold sinks or more consumables
- Too many skill points
- Need more practical gear sets in demand to stimulate the flow of money (All I ever see in Craglorn is WTS Warlock RING PST)
- Need more motifs for variety
- Need to make beverages viable and stack with food

Ser Lobo

I like the system as it is now (including the kiosks).

spoqster wrote: »

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

When your priorities are like mine, looking at the overall enjoyment and comprehensiveness of the system, then it's no longer a choice between cake or death. It's more a choice between 'too easy' and 'just right'. There is such a thing as a bed too soft, an ice cream too sweet, and a steak too thick. There is such a thing as too much of a good thing.

So what do you think of the recent lowering of the VR difficulty level then? In my opinion they could make fighting harder and the economy more streamlined.

Fighting is supposed to be a challenge, a measure of skill. In terms of the economy, the interesting part is to figure out how to build your character, how to combine specific sets.

Now think about what they are doing with the game:

• They decreased the difficulty level, so that the interesting part of fighting is gone and now it just feels like grinding. I basically walk through the world spamming my 3 button.
• They make it tiresome to buy and sell items. Which means I can't even get to the point of figuring out how best to combine my items in a smart way, but instead I am wasting time in the pre-stages of that process.

It all boils down to ZOS applying a focus that is very different from mine. I am a rather intelligent gamer who has fun solving riddles, beating challenges and gets incredibly annoyed if a part of a game is repetitive and artificially constrained. ZOS are clearly aiming their game at players who get frustrated with more challenging problems and enjoy repetitive tasks.

I have no intention of offending you, but do you really consider the current economic system challenging in any way? There is no intelligence required to be good at it, just leg work. Me personally I would rather sit in a soft chair and solving complex problems, rather than sitting in a hard chair solving trivial problems.

The veteran rank difficulty was a challenge, one I embraced and overcame. However, even I recognize that the initial jump especially was very steep, from non-vet 49 to VR1, and many of the dynamics applied were poorly implemented (taking VR gargoyles as a for instance). In the end, I supported the change.

Considering veteran content for my Nightblade versus my Sorcerer was on vastly different scales of difficulty, I understood that something was amiss.

But then, I've also supported implementation of hard-mode dungeons and zones.



Trade is supposed to be a challenge. Obtaining gear, a challenge. Earning new dyes, a challenge. Sometimes the challenge is monotony, other times it's skill and precision. But of course, one person may look at something as easy, another hard.

As a decade-long EvE Online player, I realize what a truly dynamic and diverse economy can provide to a game. It's almost the complete opposite of the economic system you see in WoW or most other MMO's.

But it's uniqueness and diversity stems more often from not from it's artificial hurdles (which, considering the whole game is full of nothing less than artificial hurdles, what's more to say?). Item dispersion and cross-market transactions are intentionally hindered and made more difficult.

I would no more support a player saying 'everything else is fine, but I should be able to automatically level to VR12' than I would someone saying 'we should all just be made master crafters with infinite resources'. Just because someone doesn't value the challenge in the system, doesn't mean the system should not have a challenge present.

Chuggernaut

I would prefer a global auctioning house.

Can we get a faction vendor that lists all for sale items?

The player would travel to this vendor (located in every major city) and it would have a listing of all items from all guilds for sale in your faction (or the faction you are currently doing missions for when you're doing Cadwells silver/gold). When you purchased the item you would receive an email with the location you need to travel to to pickup the item.