Should ESO have a global trading system

Makkir

I like the system as it is now (including the kiosks).

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No

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spoqster

I would like to see a hybrid solution (please specify in the comments).

Makkir wrote: »

spoqster wrote: »

I believe in a world that constantly evolves, and I believe people are able to accept that they've made mistakes and are willing to move on.

I wish you could've sold that concept to S.O.E before they dumped all over my game.

Secret of Evermore? ;-)

Artemiisia

oh give it up guys, there will never come a AH in this game, ZoS has even giving an official statement to this and why as well.

Resueht

I like the system as it is now (including the kiosks).

Chuggernaut wrote: »

Can we get a faction vendor that lists all for sale items?

The player would travel to this vendor (located in every major city) and it would have a listing of all items from all guilds for sale in your faction (or the faction you are currently doing missions for when you're doing Cadwells silver/gold). When you purchased the item you would receive an email with the location you need to travel to to pickup the item.

I like this. I like the idea of the current system but I think it is lacking. As a supporter of the current system, I would support this addition. It keeps the markets regional but adds accessibility.

spoqster

I would like to see a hybrid solution (please specify in the comments).

Dovhakiin wrote: »

Not enough competition hurts the economy as well...500 people(which I dont think all of them will sell stuff) and 5 guild limit (a total of 2500 people),using /z chat is a pain as well, and kiosks are not enough. I prefer Global Auctions rather than what we have now, a new idea or an hybrid solution might be way more helpful,but the way things are now,ARE NOT working. It was working before,but not anymore...I can barely find everything I need.

@Dovhakiin‌ have you checked out the two posts?

• http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/122487/broken-economy-use-the-npc-merchants-to-sell-items-for-players
• http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/92358/proposal-localized-consigment-vendors

spoqster

I would like to see a hybrid solution (please specify in the comments).

Makkir wrote: »

spoqster wrote: »

Do you have a link for me?

It was just a few posts up:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/comment/1233393/#Comment_1233393

Oh that one. Yeah I saw that one.

Makkir wrote: »

-You guys have numerous markets under the current system, only one market under a global Auction House.

• I am not necessarily for a completely global market. I don't think it is realistic that there is eBay in Tamriel. But the way it works right now offers too many problems (I have listed examples above). I wrote up a hybrid suggestion here.
• In terms of logical strictness though, I have to point out that this is neither an argument for nor against a global AH. You are just listing a fact. It's basically a tautology.

Makkir wrote: »

-The best gear in the game requires crafters, not 25 man raids
-Materials are available in unlimited supply (because nodes respawn)
-Legendary mats come from decon'ing raw material

• Again facts, not an arguments.

Makkir wrote: »

-Armor does not break, it is not consumed which means demand is somewhat limited (Once you have your suit of armor you're not going to be replacing it, and for Captain Literal who is likely to respond to this- The exception of course is when there's a raise in level cap or VR rank)

• Not entirely accurate. Armor breaks in PvE mode.
• I've had times when I went questing in looted gear - rather than crafted gear - in order to save money.
• Some sets cannot be crafted. Finding the right items to complete your set can be rewarding. But imho, the fun part here is combining the right set items rather than running to 30 guild vendors to find them.

Makkir wrote: »

- NPC's offer you 400 gold per stack of materials meaning a global AH would eventually lower the price per stack to 401gold (You're not very bright if taking this figure literally...realistically the price would be a bit higher taking into consideration the AH cut...so stacks would be priced so the profit is 401g)

• Here you are stating a likely prediction, not an argument for or against a global AH.

Makkir wrote: »

If you can't see the correlation between these bullet points, you're doing it wrong.

I have no idea what you mean by that. You have not made a argument, other than that you personally like the existing system. Which is cool. I envy you. If that is so, I wonder why you are spending time on this thread rather than playing the game. The reason I am spending time here is because I think the system is so horrible, that I am actively investing time of my life to convince ZOS to change it.

SirAndy

I like the system as it is now (including the kiosks).

I like the current system but i feel that there should be more ways for guilds (especially smaller ones) to get their warez out there.

Right now, the number of traders that can be hired is way too small compared to the number of guilds out there ...
;-)

spoqster

I would like to see a hybrid solution (please specify in the comments).

Makkir wrote: »

So let's examine some of these conclusions so far and some that I have added
- Need more gold sinks or more consumables
- Need more practical gear sets in demand to stimulate the flow of money (All I ever see in Craglorn is WTS Warlock RING PST)
- Need more motifs for variety
- Need to make beverages viable and stack with food

Very good points! To me these suggestions epitomize that if the economy in this game would suffer from globalization, then this is not a problem of the more fluid economic system but rather a problem of weaknesses on the content side.

Usually an artificially and intentionally broken economy is a mechanism game producers use to conceal or postpone problems in their item model.

Crumpy

I would prefer a global auctioning house.

Is da frickin pope jewish

spoqster

I would like to see a hybrid solution (please specify in the comments).

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

As a decade-long EvE Online player, I realize what a truly dynamic and diverse economy can provide to a game. It's almost the complete opposite of the economic system you see in WoW or most other MMO's.

But it's uniqueness and diversity stems more often from not from it's artificial hurdles (which, considering the whole game is full of nothing less than artificial hurdles, what's more to say?). Item dispersion and cross-market transactions are intentionally hindered and made more difficult.

Interesting. I have heard many good things about EVE's economy although I have never played it. But I have never heard anyone compare it to ESO's.

As I understand it is completely player driven, so there might be a bit of a difference there. Also, I was under the impression that the separate markets are much bigger than the trading guilds in ESO, or am I mistaken.

I would be very interested in learning about the simliarities and differences between the two economies.

Dovhakiin

I would prefer a global auctioning house.

spoqster wrote: »

Dovhakiin wrote: »

Not enough competition hurts the economy as well...500 people(which I dont think all of them will sell stuff) and 5 guild limit (a total of 2500 people),using /z chat is a pain as well, and kiosks are not enough. I prefer Global Auctions rather than what we have now, a new idea or an hybrid solution might be way more helpful,but the way things are now,ARE NOT working. It was working before,but not anymore...I can barely find everything I need.

@Dovhakiin‌ have you checked out the two posts?

• http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/122487/broken-economy-use-the-npc-merchants-to-sell-items-for-players
• http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/92358/proposal-localized-consigment-vendors

None of these 2 posts helped me...thanks anyways

k9mouse

I like the system as it is now (including the kiosks).

AH are evil and to impersonal -- I like the multi-markets and the current system.

Athas24

I would like to see a hybrid solution (please specify in the comments).

I wouldn't mind doing a faction based global system perhaps with traveling merchants or something. Either that or the merchants need to refund bids that are not won. No auctioneer system in the WORLD operates the way these *** merchant traders do. "I have a painting for sale. . . taking bids" I sell to the highest bidder and keep all of everyone else's bids though? Ya right, somebody would get lynched for that... If the auctioneer is going to keep all the funds it shouldn't be a blind bid. Also, maybe those merchants could travel around a bit or something? That way they aren't stuck in one area. you could just sign up at the bank or on your guild page to buy/rent a merchant and then they would show up in the major towns from time to time in the merchant stall area similar to now only there would maybe be more of them and they would shift around to different towns? They could even post where they will be when on an agenda or something. *shrugs*

GnatB

I would prefer a global auctioning house.

Makkir wrote: »

You can't just install an AH in this game's current state and expect it to work. Just like you can't just "not have" an AH without several other important features for that system to work. A lot of systems are tied into each other and you can't alter one with altering the other. I think if an auction house were introduced I would like to see gear permanently break over time so it would be consumed. But I know a lot of players wouldn't favor that option. In other words, you can't have a system (AH) where there would be unlimited crafting resources but the end product isn't consumed, it's kind of a bottleneck (not sure if I like that word). With an Auction House, what's going to happen in another 6 months when everyone has all the motifs, recipes, and yellow gear but an enormous amount of gold is still being put into the economy (via quests, pvp rewards, etc)? You end up with thousands of players sitting on 100k+ gold with nothing to buy other than repairs and consumables. Food, Potions, etc.

Except you have still all those problems with the guild stores. The guild store implementation does nothing to significantly address those problems.

That said, I'm still not all that convinced those are actually inevitable problems. I played EQ for years (which didn't have item degredation) and it seemed to work fine. It wasn't until some crafters on my server decided to get greedy that the market bottomed out for the particular crafted items I specialized in, and that had nothing to do with oversupply. (While I was on vacation one of the bowyers got together with the rest of the known bowyers and convinced them all to charge an arm and a leg for bows/combines. This had the not at all surprising result of making all the various guilds train up their own bowyer. When I came back from vacation, I couldn't sell jack. After asking around one of my friends later told me what had happened.)

Because sure. More items are coming into circulation and staying there, but theoretically, more players are too. And players are quiting and taking their stuff with them And rare items should be just that. RARE. (edit: yeah, I know. week long waits for a spawn WERE bad. but you could also just have a large loot table with the good drop very rare.)

GnatB

I would prefer a global auctioning house.

Artemiisia wrote: »

oh give it up guys, there will never come a AH in this game, ZoS has even giving an official statement to this and why as well.

While I'll agree that they have given an official statement that there are no plans (or intent) for an AH, the "why" was pretty much literally "because we don't want a functioning economy". We're hoping to talk them out of that stance. Just because they currently don't want to doesn't mean they can't change their minds.


Personally though, and I've said this before, *buy orders* would be a far more useful thing to add to this game than a Global AH.

sotonin

I would prefer a global auctioning house.

Artemiisia wrote: »

oh give it up guys, there will never come a AH in this game, ZoS has even giving an official statement to this and why as well.

You are absolutely right. Giving it up is exactly what will inevitably happen if ZOS doesn't create a real economy for this game. What it has currently is not viable long term to keep players around.

Nazon_Katts

I would like to see a hybrid solution (please specify in the comments).

EvE is a full economical simulation. ESO is not. It's utilizing the old formula WoW and most other MMOs utilize. Which, quite frankly, doesn't lend itself that much towards a player driven market. At least not a dynamic and decentralized one.

There's a reason all those games have centralized and easy to access markets, since those can atleast emulate thriving trade. To achieve anything just slightly similar to EvE (or SW:G which did a good job at a mostly ground based game), everything crafting and itemization related has to be reworked, as well as travel and transport systems.

How resources enter the game, where they enter the game, how they can be transported (travel times, capacity, weight), in which qualities they come and in which amounts before they deplete. Then the following refinement, processing and construction processes must be adjusted accordingly, as well as how all of that leaves the game again.

The normal MMO 'economy' doesn't bother with all of that and only limits those things by a certain time requirement, pretty much boiling all of the above down to the lowest common denominator and almost anything that enters the game usually stays there, except currency and trash. Add fast travel and you made sure there are no real regional markets, just the ones where the most players are, since everything is essentially available anywhere.

And tiered, level-based themepark MMOs are always top heavy, since everyone will reach level cap eventually and thus be partaking in the very same market anyways. Currently, that's Craglorn and the few odd crafting hubs like Rawl'Kha. The rest pretty much is being ignored.

So we got our regional AHs right there already, albeit that only a tiny fraction of the population is allowed to sell and thus heavily limiting the supply. Additionally, trade is disincentivized by even further artificially segregrating the markets in tiny guild shops.

When I take a close look at how the game is literally flooded with items, I can see why they felt the need for this rather strict and heavy balancing method. A global AH cannot break any economy, it only makes an already broken one more apparent. But even with the system we got now, it'll show eventually and all they've been doing has been buying time.

So if they ever wish to offer us more sophisticated and convenient means of trade, they have to take care of the underlying balance issues first. And I certainly hope so, as I am convinced it's absence is already costing them subs and the loss might even reach a level that's going to be harmful to the longevity of the game. Trade and crafting is endgame content, after all.

Khami

I like the system as it is now (including the kiosks).

AlexDougherty wrote: »

I want a system simialr to SWTORs galactic trade kiosks.

How would that work with one server? SW:TOR has 9 servers. I have alts on three servers and the more populated the server the cheaper the price.

I suppose you want to the cheaper price. I, as a crafter, do not.

BrassRazoo

I like the system as it is now (including the kiosks).

The price variations of the current Guild Stores is excellent and would be ruined by a Global solution.

Attorneyatlawl

I like the system as it is now (including the kiosks).

The current system is a very good hybrid of standard old-style barter, and newer-game-style trade and auction houses. Considering there is only one giant megaserver in ESO per region (EU/US), simply making a global auction house would turn trade into what may as well be nothing but an automated vendor. No room for negotiation or skill with tweaking prices and playing the markets, just hard numbers, throw it up let it sell in minutes.

dharbert

Hi there.


I'm a dead horse.


Please stop beating me.

GnatB

I would prefer a global auctioning house.

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Considering there is only one giant megaserver in ESO per region (EU/US), simply making a global auction house would turn trade into what may as well be nothing but an automated vendor. No room for negotiation or skill with tweaking prices and playing the markets, just hard numbers, throw it up let it sell in minutes.

So why did you vote against it?

Nazon_Katts

I would like to see a hybrid solution (please specify in the comments).

dharbert wrote: »

Hi there.


I'm a dead horse.


Please stop beating me.

Dunno what's getting older. The complaints or the complaints about the complaints. I think I'll go with the latter.

soulclaw

I would prefer a global auctioning house.

Makkir wrote: »

Wizzo91 wrote: »

But there is no valid argument against implementing an auction house

There's plenty. It's laughable at all the Auction House fanboys on here. Yeah it worked wonderfully in a couple other MMOs. But that's almost as credible as saying "Hey, this Advantix Flea medicine for 60lb canines worked great on my Dog! Let me put it on my cat now!"

Elder Scrolls Online is a stand alone MMO. Your gear does not come from raiding, it comes from crafting (Even if you wear looted pieces, you need crafters to upgrade it to legendary status). Due to the fact your armor does not break or is consumed, bringing a Global Auction House to a game economy that centers around crafters is suicide.

The large percentage of you who want an Auction House are not die hard crafters. You're typical instant gratification seeking new age MMO'ers spoiled by the EZ Mode standard Blizzard has set for modern day games. Those of us who were around for earlier MMOs, remember the effort required to sell wares was almost the time investment you spent out collecting them. Finding a deal in the East Commonlands was almost as exciting as seeing purple in your loot box.

But I don't blame you, the instant gratification mindset is pretty much what sells in America today anyway. I think it's pretty selffish when people say "I don't want to waste time selling and looking for items, I just want to list it and go back to questing/raiding. What about the crafters who play strictly to provide a service for the rest of you, or actually enjoy crafting and making a business? Why in a game centered around us, must you demand ZOS dumb down our game experience?

I love how the only real argument from the anti-AH crowd is condescension, insults, and the delusion that the way they play a VIDEO GAME sets them apart and confers some sort of nobility.

Chuggernaut

I would prefer a global auctioning house.

Resueht wrote: »

Chuggernaut wrote: »

Can we get a faction vendor that lists all for sale items?

The player would travel to this vendor (located in every major city) and it would have a listing of all items from all guilds for sale in your faction (or the faction you are currently doing missions for when you're doing Cadwells silver/gold). When you purchased the item you would receive an email with the location you need to travel to to pickup the item.

I like this. I like the idea of the current system but I think it is lacking. As a supporter of the current system, I would support this addition. It keeps the markets regional but adds accessibility.

Thank you! That's all I want more accessibility to the items for sale without the need to lead a new search query with each guild/kiosk. I don't mind running around so long as I know when I get there my prize will be waiting.

Dovhakiin

I would prefer a global auctioning house.

soulclaw wrote: »

Makkir wrote: »

Wizzo91 wrote: »

But there is no valid argument against implementing an auction house

There's plenty. It's laughable at all the Auction House fanboys on here. Yeah it worked wonderfully in a couple other MMOs. But that's almost as credible as saying "Hey, this Advantix Flea medicine for 60lb canines worked great on my Dog! Let me put it on my cat now!"

Elder Scrolls Online is a stand alone MMO. Your gear does not come from raiding, it comes from crafting (Even if you wear looted pieces, you need crafters to upgrade it to legendary status). Due to the fact your armor does not break or is consumed, bringing a Global Auction House to a game economy that centers around crafters is suicide.

The large percentage of you who want an Auction House are not die hard crafters. You're typical instant gratification seeking new age MMO'ers spoiled by the EZ Mode standard Blizzard has set for modern day games. Those of us who were around for earlier MMOs, remember the effort required to sell wares was almost the time investment you spent out collecting them. Finding a deal in the East Commonlands was almost as exciting as seeing purple in your loot box.

But I don't blame you, the instant gratification mindset is pretty much what sells in America today anyway. I think it's pretty selffish when people say "I don't want to waste time selling and looking for items, I just want to list it and go back to questing/raiding. What about the crafters who play strictly to provide a service for the rest of you, or actually enjoy crafting and making a business? Why in a game centered around us, must you demand ZOS dumb down our game experience?

I love how the only real argument from the anti-AH crowd is condescension, insults, and the delusion that the way they play a VIDEO GAME sets them apart and confers some sort of nobility.

How true

Chuggernaut wrote: »

Resueht wrote: »

Chuggernaut wrote: »

Can we get a faction vendor that lists all for sale items?

The player would travel to this vendor (located in every major city) and it would have a listing of all items from all guilds for sale in your faction (or the faction you are currently doing missions for when you're doing Cadwells silver/gold). When you purchased the item you would receive an email with the location you need to travel to to pickup the item.

I like this. I like the idea of the current system but I think it is lacking. As a supporter of the current system, I would support this addition. It keeps the markets regional but adds accessibility.

Thank you! That's all I want more accessibility to the items for sale without the need to lead a new search query with each guild/kiosk. I don't mind running around so long as I know when I get there my prize will be waiting.

I think if both stay, AH will end by killing Guild Bank Stores,one of these will have to change or disappear...

spoqster

I would like to see a hybrid solution (please specify in the comments).

GnatB wrote: »

Makkir wrote: »

You can't just install an AH in this game's current state and expect it to work. Just like you can't just "not have" an AH without several other important features for that system to work. A lot of systems are tied into each other and you can't alter one with altering the other. I think if an auction house were introduced I would like to see gear permanently break over time so it would be consumed. But I know a lot of players wouldn't favor that option. In other words, you can't have a system (AH) where there would be unlimited crafting resources but the end product isn't consumed, it's kind of a bottleneck (not sure if I like that word). With an Auction House, what's going to happen in another 6 months when everyone has all the motifs, recipes, and yellow gear but an enormous amount of gold is still being put into the economy (via quests, pvp rewards, etc)? You end up with thousands of players sitting on 100k+ gold with nothing to buy other than repairs and consumables. Food, Potions, etc.

Except you have still all those problems with the guild stores. The guild store implementation does nothing to significantly address those problems.

Indeed. A bad economical system just slows down the economy. The intrinsic problems of this game will still surface - only later. If they implemented this system to buy themselves time, I can understand. I can just hope that no one at ZOS actually believes this is a good system.

spoqster

I would like to see a hybrid solution (please specify in the comments).

GnatB wrote: »

Artemiisia wrote: »

oh give it up guys, there will never come a AH in this game, ZoS has even giving an official statement to this and why as well.

While I'll agree that they have given an official statement that there are no plans (or intent) for an AH, the "why" was pretty much literally "because we don't want a functioning economy". We're hoping to talk them out of that stance. Just because they currently don't want to doesn't mean they can't change their minds.

That is exactly the right spirit. For me it is either they change their mind and come up with a creative solution (I am not for a global AH per se) or I will stop playing this game. I am getting the feeling many people who have voted for a change have similar thoughts.

GnatB wrote: »

Personally though, and I've said this before, *buy orders* would be a far more useful thing to add to this game than a Global AH.

Great idea! The lack of buy orders are one of the main reasons why crafting is not profitable in ESO.

• Because of the fragmented nature of the economy, a crafter has no idea which kind of items are currently in demand.
• All he can do is simply craft what he assumes to be in demand.
• And then all he can do is to post them to his guild store for a bit of a random price.
• Chances are that there actually is a demand for his item in Tamriel, just not in his guilds.
• Even if there is demand in his guilds, the probability is high, that the price he set is so off, that he either [a] sells under value, or his price is so high that no one will buy his item.
  
• Since the listing time is 30(!) days it will take him a few months to revise his pricing strategy.

So buy orders would help rectify this problem, but where the economy not so fragmented, the problem wouldn't exist in the first place. (Although I would like to see buy orders even in a less fragmented economy.)

spoqster

I would like to see a hybrid solution (please specify in the comments).

BrassRazoo wrote: »

The price variations of the current Guild Stores is excellent and would be ruined by a Global solution.

Currently the system is so fragmented that there is understanding to be had, no pattern to be seen. By fragmenting the economy into zones (or cities) rather than 500 member guilds (and adding trade limits to each zone) they could improve the economy without having to adopt a global solution. Also, from a role playing perspective this would be the most realistic scenario.

AlexDougherty

I would prefer a global auctioning house.

Khami wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

I want a system simialr to SWTORs galactic trade kiosks.

How would that work with one server? SW:TOR has 9 servers. I have alts on three servers and the more populated the server the cheaper the price.

I suppose you want to the cheaper price. I, as a crafter, do not.

Actually I just want the convenience, but I take your point on the price.

I just want a system where I can go to the kiosk, look for what I want, and not have to worry about having missed a Guild seller or two, and know if it's on sale it's there.

Heck, if they just made a huge marketplac in each area so I could go from seller to seller I would be happy.