LOL dumped down

Csub · July 2014

Atreyu wrote: »

Me killing mobs before the VR nerf (Im the guy on the left)

Me killing mobs after the VR nerf

You won the Internet today!

fromtesonlineb16_ESO · July 2014

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

Just did some V8 tests. Mob health is reduced by a third, the damage they do is trivial and you don't even have to think about any tactics against groups of 3 mobs....

I would say dumped down. If anyone has problems now then it is a problem between chair and screen.

The word is dumbed.

/sigh

Hilgara · July 2014

Vordar wrote: »

Zenimax is doing what they have to do to repopulate VR zones, plain and simple, its not about whinning, or player feedback, its about what is really happening in VR zones. Ghost towns, at any time, so if you force grouping in a place where there is no one to group with you doing it wrong.

This may not be the best solution to the problem, but Zeni is betting that making VR easier more people will want to play in it. If people want VR to stay hard the go play in those zones not just Craglorn. A couple days last week I played in VR6 and VR7 zones without seeing another player for over 4 hours.

So if you are correct and the difficulty really was the reason people weren't in VR then next week those zones will be buzzing with activity right?

We'll see

kitsinni · July 2014

Man you people are all about end of the world. Since when has mid-level game questing been the end of all anything? Who gives a crap if mid-level quests are easier to do.

Look at every other MMO out there questing is super easy through the entire game. People learn about dungeon/raid mechanics in dungeons and raids and the sky didn't fall, the world didn't end and the games didn't fail.

Audigy · July 2014

KariTR wrote: »

wrlifeboil wrote: »

NorthernFury wrote: »

Dang. This is really disappointing. I really liked that the difficulty of VR made one have to tactically plan every fight if you wanted to do it solo.

I think many people missed the point; point being that you had to get straight with your tactics and how to play your build if you wanted to solo, and that some mobs required different skills to beat than others. Also, if something was too difficult to beat solo, well, that's what guilds and friends lists are for. Even 2-man groups would have zero difficulty with the content.

I understand that the LFG function here kinda stinks, but there are ways around that. I also understand that stamina/weapon-based builds are not nearly as efficient as magicka-based skills, and that heavy armor is not nearly as big a benefit as it should be, but it was workable if the player was smart.

Before the attacks come, my first VR12 went solo all the way as a stam-based 2H DK, and was able to do all of the content.

Unrealistic. That kind of philosphy doesn't apply to triple-A games that cost nine figures to develop and sell. Trying to cater to elitists only works for high priced luxury goods that can make money selling fewer units, not mass market video games. You only need the elitists to buy the box or download then go away. The masses stay around to pay the bills and keep the lights on.

I am not a bloody elitist! :grr

The 'elitists' were at cap a couple of weeks after launch, they couldn't give a damn about these changes. I am still to get to cap. I care about these changes because I like to be challenged a little by my games. It keeps them interesting.

No challenge=no long-term sub from me, a player with a history of staying loyal to games that provide me with challenge. I'm under no illusion that my sub counts for anything, but I do know I am the kind of player who sticks around to pay the bills.

Thank the Nine I got the Lion's Den achievement last night before this debacle.

Well said, I am in a very similar position. I hate Elitism, yet people say I would be one because I want entertainment for my money ...

I did stick to WOW, SWTOR and many other MMO´s no matter how crappy their support was or how broken the clients did run, but at the moment the challenge was removed my sub was cancelled. Its the worst thing a company can do to me, I am just not an easy to entertain person

The problem always is that having nothing to do in an MMO is what kills the subs and not the difficulty. WOW had 13 million subs when it was hard, today its easy and has 6,9 or something.

MMOs today offer a lot for hardcores (times raids, dungeons, Arena pvp), but almost nothing for the casual joe (long & challenging quests, social activities, exploring...). This is where the subs are lost.

Papa_Hunt · July 2014

Did they nerf Craglorn too?

jeradlub17_ESO · July 2014

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

One third?

Ok, now I'm not a fan of the change. I was ambivalent before, but I'm not looking forward to groups full of VR12 players who still haven't learned how to move out of the red.

V8 mobs went from 3300 hits to around 2150. So not only do they do trivial damage but they are down in 2 hits from my NB, sneak attack, killer strike and they are dead.

LOL ans NBs claim they have no dps LOL. Can't think of any other 2 shotting class

kitsinni · July 2014

jeradlub17_ESO wrote: »

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

One third?

Ok, now I'm not a fan of the change. I was ambivalent before, but I'm not looking forward to groups full of VR12 players who still haven't learned how to move out of the red.

V8 mobs went from 3300 hits to around 2150. So not only do they do trivial damage but they are down in 2 hits from my NB, sneak attack, killer strike and they are dead.

LOL ans NBs claim they have no dps LOL. Can't think of any other 2 shotting class

NBs problem was never taking out a single target from sneak fast, it was dealing with the other two/three once they couldn't use the sneak bonus on the first one.

Hilgara · July 2014

kitsinni wrote: »

jeradlub17_ESO wrote: »

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

One third?

Ok, now I'm not a fan of the change. I was ambivalent before, but I'm not looking forward to groups full of VR12 players who still haven't learned how to move out of the red.

V8 mobs went from 3300 hits to around 2150. So not only do they do trivial damage but they are down in 2 hits from my NB, sneak attack, killer strike and they are dead.

LOL ans NBs claim they have no dps LOL. Can't think of any other 2 shotting class

NBs problem was never taking out a single target from sneak fast, it was dealing with the other two/three once they couldn't use the sneak bonus on the first one.

NB's could take out 3 mobs easy enough. There was always a way. Its just that other classes had more options to do the same thing

kitsinni · July 2014

Hilgara wrote: »

kitsinni wrote: »

jeradlub17_ESO wrote: »

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

One third?

Ok, now I'm not a fan of the change. I was ambivalent before, but I'm not looking forward to groups full of VR12 players who still haven't learned how to move out of the red.

V8 mobs went from 3300 hits to around 2150. So not only do they do trivial damage but they are down in 2 hits from my NB, sneak attack, killer strike and they are dead.

LOL ans NBs claim they have no dps LOL. Can't think of any other 2 shotting class

NBs problem was never taking out a single target from sneak fast, it was dealing with the other two/three once they couldn't use the sneak bonus on the first one.

NB's could take out 3 mobs easy enough. There was always a way. Its just that other classes had more options to do the same thing

No crap we get it and I did it before you started your forum crusade .. enough already dude.

Tamanous · July 2014

I am still laughing over "dumped down".

I also am reading that the nerf to health is only around 16% ... not 33%. It is likely the reduced damage that is the issue. There were numerous screenshots showing how incredibly hard pre-nerf VR mobs were hitting. It was obviously a real issue.

Provide actual math to ZOS and they are evaluate the change instead of whining incessantly.

Also a hell of a lot of you seem to be assuming that ZOS is reacting directly to complaints on the forums and without endless data from the logs they have access to in the game.

Phinix1 · July 2014

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

I am absolutely, 100% positive that we are going to have a wave of complaint threads next week about how hard Craglorn is and that it needs to be brought down to the level of other VR content.

I am not a parent, but one thing my parents taught me is to NEVER cater to a child that compulsively cries and throws a tantrum whenever it wants something.

All you do is encourage that behavior to become the norm.

kitsinni wrote: »

Man you people are all about end of the world. Since when has mid-level game questing been the end of all anything? Who gives a crap if mid-level quests are easier to do.

Who cares if 90% of the game play doesn't punish you for standing in fire?

Svann · July 2014

"LOL dumped down"

Irony?

mumok · July 2014

The Devs and Admins must be staring at this thread with their mouths open not knowing what to do.

For weeks everyone(I say everyone because I have never seen a thread about VR content being too easy)has complained about VR content being "too hard" and "no fun" and "why can V1-V12 be like 1-50", and now ZOS has answered the call, and we have the same forum burning them at the stake.

I have not been in game yet so it may have been over adjusted but the patch notes do say "the first in a series of changes we'll be making to improve the post-50 experience overall."

I am one of the people that wanted to see the difficulty adjusted in VR so if they did gimp it a little too much then I will enjoy some easier XP. I'm sure they will turn the difficulty back up next update.

wrlifeboil · July 2014

Ojustaboo wrote: »

KariTR wrote: »

wrlifeboil wrote: »

NorthernFury wrote: »

Dang. This is really disappointing. I really liked that the difficulty of VR made one have to tactically plan every fight if you wanted to do it solo.

I think many people missed the point; point being that you had to get straight with your tactics and how to play your build if you wanted to solo, and that some mobs required different skills to beat than others. Also, if something was too difficult to beat solo, well, that's what guilds and friends lists are for. Even 2-man groups would have zero difficulty with the content.

I understand that the LFG function here kinda stinks, but there are ways around that. I also understand that stamina/weapon-based builds are not nearly as efficient as magicka-based skills, and that heavy armor is not nearly as big a benefit as it should be, but it was workable if the player was smart.

Before the attacks come, my first VR12 went solo all the way as a stam-based 2H DK, and was able to do all of the content.

Unrealistic. That kind of philosphy doesn't apply to triple-A games that cost nine figures to develop and sell. Trying to cater to elitists only works for high priced luxury goods that can make money selling fewer units, not mass market video games. You only need the elitists to buy the box or download then go away. The masses stay around to pay the bills and keep the lights on.

I am not a bloody elitist! :grr

The 'elitists' were at cap a couple of weeks after launch, they couldn't give a damn about these changes. I am still to get to cap. I care about these changes because I like to be challenged a little by my games. It keeps them interesting.

No challenge=no long-term sub from me, a player with a history of staying loyal to games that provide me with challenge. I'm under no illusion that my sub counts for anything, but I do know I am the kind of player who sticks around to pay the bills.

Thank the Nine I got the Lion's Den achievement last night before this debacle.

Yep, getting sick and tired of this.

Time and time again I have pointed out how I am nowhere near a very good player, or how I'm often the weakest link in a dungeon group etc.

But because I was really enjoying the vet difficulty, I am apparently elitist.

Haha, it's always all about you right? The actual reason is that the very few who are 'enjoying the vet difficulty' don't take into consideration the many who aren't.

VR zones are empty because people didn't enjoy VR zones. Those who are too caught up in themselves may not realize it but trying to preserve a major portion of the game for a few to enjoy is indeed elitist.

Magdalina · July 2014

Audigy wrote: »

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

Just did some V8 tests. Mob health is reduced by a third, the damage they do is trivial and you don't even have to think about any tactics against groups of 3 mobs....

I would say dumped down. If anyone has problems now then it is a problem between chair and screen.

Its not dumbed down, its now accessible by everyone not running hardcore Fotm specs. Stop being an elitist who wants the game to fail.

I don't like Elitism in games, but I still think he is right. The danger of losing people is much higher if you deny them optional content that they enjoyed.

If the VR zones were too hard for you, you could go there with an alt from 1-50.

While I didn't test the zones yet, I think its quite depressing to know that absolutely no knowledge about the class or dodge and interrupt seem to be needed now.

This wont help the game, but put its success in jeopardy. Lets face it, while you might not be such a good player, many are and if they all leave then you will be pretty much alone in this game.

Also ask yourself how you will ever get better if you never try and learn? Don't you want to improve your game?

While I do think they used a chainsaw where they should've used a scalpel, I highly doubt this'll make vet zones emptier. Because I HIGHLY doubt emptier is possible. Vet zones already had like 10 players a zone in higher vet at prime hours. 0 at non prime. You already pretty much ARE alone in the game in vet 7+. You can run around for hours not seeing ANYONE and not hearing anything in zone chat either.

If this brings more ppl there, I'd say the goal is reached.

Whether it will or not, I have no idea, I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Also, nerfing world bosses was INCREDIBLY stupid even for Zeni. I have yet to check anchors but I have a sinking suspicion about them, too. And those are parts that no one ever complained about. ...but then again, chainsaw doesn't do delicate and careful swings>.<

Anisto · July 2014

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

Really do you people know how badly this game was losing subs BECAUSE of VR?

they were losing subs to vr because of the repetitiveness more than the difficulty i believe. it went from a long grind with tactical fights to now a really long grind with faceroll boring fights.

Arsenic_Touch · July 2014

Hilgara wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

I cant wait to get home and see the hundreds of people filling the VR content tonight. They will be there right?

Sure they will. After all, making it easier nullifies all those complaints about it being boring doesnt it?

It also nullifies the monotonous quests and terrible rewards, it also nullifies the imbalance in armor types, class skills and weapon skills. Which is probably how they're going to address these imbalance issues by making the mobs easier, you won't notice the flaws in the skills.

hunthordeub17_ESO wrote: »

Did they nerf Craglorn too?

Saw some reports of the craglorn mobs being slightly easier.

lex.derioneb17_ESO · July 2014

At least they are making this change before the new subscription cycle. The patch will hit EU server tomorrow, and if it as bad as it sounds, will probably unsub. Don't think I could bear already poorly paced VR content without a joy of challenge. Sad, but just a way of things, I suppose

kitsinni · July 2014

I still don't think it being "hard" was nearly as big of a deal as how tedius it was. You need way to much xp to level through questing and it is extremely boring.

angel59 · July 2014

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

I am not a parent, but one thing my parents taught me is to NEVER cater to a child that compulsively cries and throws a tantrum whenever it wants something.

All you do is encourage that behavior to become the norm.

So I guess the changes are here to stay then.

KariTR · July 2014

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

I cant wait to get home and see the hundreds of people filling the VR content tonight. They will be there right?

Who can resist a naked ***.

Now whether they will still be there tomorrow night, or the night after...

Tamanous · July 2014

Anisto wrote: »

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

Really do you people know how badly this game was losing subs BECAUSE of VR?

they were losing subs to vr because of the repetitiveness more than the difficulty i believe. it went from a long grind with tactical fights to now a really long grind with faceroll boring fights.

How did it go from a long grind to a "really" long grind when mobs get easier and take less time to kill?

kitsinni · July 2014

Questing should be easy, leveling should be easy. The challenge should be getting good at end game content, dungeons and raids. Sadly there isn't much of that but the idea that the challenge should be in leveling up is dumb. I don't understand why leveling up through quests should be hard. It isn't hard in any other game. People will learn the dungeon/raid mechanics in dungeons/raids.

Hilgara · July 2014

Tamanous wrote: »

Anisto wrote: »

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

Really do you people know how badly this game was losing subs BECAUSE of VR?

they were losing subs to vr because of the repetitiveness more than the difficulty i believe. it went from a long grind with tactical fights to now a really long grind with faceroll boring fights.

How did it go from a long grind to a "really" long grind when mobs get easier and take less time to kill?

Same number of quests same distance travelled. The time fighting was actually a tiny percentage of the time it took to level. At least rolling an alt meant that you had to rethink those fights and use different tactics. Now not only will you be doing all the same quests but you will be doing them all the same way. Hack slash/ Pew Pew

DeLindsay · July 2014

Alright so I checked and also talked with Guildees about the current VR change. It would seem all ZoS did is fully revert the difficulty of VR enemies to pre-1.2 (Craglorn). I wouldn't exactly call that a nerf because the difficulty was already in place before patch 1.2 ramped it up more. I haven't checked VR Dungeons yet but did a little questing and it's pretty much exactly like it was pre-Craglorn, which arguably was pretty easy, but still.

Ojustaboo · July 2014

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

I cant wait to get home and see the hundreds of people filling the VR content tonight. They will be there right?

Hehe

More to the point, even if many do go there to see what it's now like, how many will still be there in 2 weeks time.

SirAndy · July 2014

DeLindsay wrote: »

Alright so I checked and also talked with Guildees about the current VR change. It would seem all ZoS did is fully revert the difficulty of VR enemies to pre-1.2 (Craglorn). I wouldn't exactly call that a nerf because the difficulty was already in place before patch 1.2 ramped it up more.

How dare you bring logic to this argument ...

Corew · July 2014

DeLindsay wrote: »

Alright so I checked and also talked with Guildees about the current VR change. It would seem all ZoS did is fully revert the difficulty of VR enemies to pre-1.2 (Craglorn). I wouldn't exactly call that a nerf because the difficulty was already in place before patch 1.2 ramped it up more. I haven't checked VR Dungeons yet but did a little questing and it's pretty much exactly like it was pre-Craglorn, which arguably was pretty easy, but still.

This is probably true

Phinix1 · July 2014

mumok wrote: »

The Devs and Admins must be staring at this thread with their mouths open not knowing what to do.

This is what happens when you knee-jerk redesign a game because some people have been trained to complain and throw tantrums with their money instead of actually adapting and solving problems.

This behavior really shouldn't be encouraged, but every company ends up catering to the lowest common denominator eventually.

Enjoy being able to ignore game mechanics, stand in fire, and still win every time.

But running to home plate without being expected to hit the ball does not make ME feel particularly "heroic."