LOL dumped down

Swampster

Iam_Epiphany wrote: »

@ragnar_lodbrok I've been playing PVE content since release on my stamina based nightblade and finding it too easy, it has nothing to do with FOTM specs.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/115102/do-you-think-veteran-content-is-too-hard/p1

Arsenic_Touch wrote:

You remember a minority within a minority being vocal about things. There's a difference. Every poll on the subject has reflected entirely different from that minority.

Oh you brought polls to support your arguments....

I'll just throw this one out there just to keep it balanced eh.. get it?.. balance, re-balance... oh nevermind!

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/117424/do-you-think-vet-mode-needed-a-rebalancing

And frankly I'm getting tired with the same 3-4 people yelling 'vocal minority' 'vocal minority' 'vocal minority' every bloody thread I read on these forums! Especially when it's a statement about a numerical value that they might as well have plucked out of their arse!

I do however agree with Laura's point:

problem is they didn't fix the actual issues. The problem is that weapon builds an such didn't really work anymore in veteran content, as soon as they get to end game and they want to do some grouping they will still be in a bad way.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting comments]

Anastasia

nudel wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

One third?

Ok, now I'm not a fan of the change. I was ambivalent before, but I'm not looking forward to groups full of VR12 players who still haven't learned how to move out of the red.

What did you expect? Have you not seen how ZOS handles nerfs?

---

Naw ...it was just going to be 'eased up a TAD'...whatchu talkin about here?

Nathano

Vahrokh wrote: »

The majority said:

1) Content is boring.

2) Broken stamina builds. Broken... "just always put all points on health, it's the only best solution".

3) Broken quests.

4) Content is bad for roleplay (rebirthing back to being unknown, back to be "soul less" (lots of quests rely on that in their narration) which imo is the WORST breaking point, kill your own faction.

5) XP bar does not budge, very bad feeling of no progress

6) no appetible rewards for the effort

7) FPS drops in PVP. It's listed 7) but in reality it's its own category and it's #1 for PvP.

THEN, some, also complained:

8.) VR was too hard. There's always a niche who just can't do stuff so it was expected.


What has been ZoS priority? OF COURSE START FROM THE BOTTOM!

Errr what are you talking about? For months there have consistently been several active threads about the VR difficulty each going on for at least 10-20 pages and you think this ranks 8th in the "majority" of players? VR difficulty is something that has been a sticking point for a lot of players for a long time, so yes it is something ZoS should prioritize.

Maulkin

MonkeyAssassin24 wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

MonkeyAssassin24 wrote: »

Hilgara wrote: »

For over a month now me and a few others have been defending the difficulty against the vocal minority. Now the battle has been lost the majority suddenly find their voice. Where were you all a month ago?

It's not that people have suddenly seen the error in their thoughts. It's the fact that instead of balancing the scale they have replaced the heavier side with a feather. Don't start this "I told you so" movement, players asked for VR to be toned down but this is so far beyond that. All anyone wanted was balance. The players that wanted it easy were the minority of the so called vocal minority that just wanted it fine-tuned.

To be fair there were a lot of people that did not care about the difficulty but the content and the rewards. To be more precise, they wanted quests that were a logical continuation of what had happened story-wise and rewards that matched the effort you put in to beat mobs with combined heath of 20k that hit like trucks.

Unfortunately that would involved a lot of changes, not to mention that those voices became irrelevant as the discussion became nore and more centered around the issue difficulty, not the storyline and reward system.

Considering what's happened to DK and Sorc abilities, I could see a that huge nerfbat coming from a mile away

I agree with you, I was one of those people as well. I just wanted balance and something different than a brick wall in the story line but like you said, that's a major change.

Maybe I should start looking at my thoughts of this game as dumb optimism instead of blind optimism

Look, in a cynical way I'm actually not fussed. VR went from pointless, boring and hard...to pointless, boring and easy. So I suppose in some ways it's a good change.

What everyone in my guild did as soon as they hit VR1 was:
a) Go to Grindlorn and grind balamath or hircines haunt to v12
b) Go back to VR zones (as a v12 now) for the skill points which involved either chasing skyshards or doing the caldwell's quests.

So I suppose the 2nd part has now become a lot easier, which for power-levellers is actually a good change. I mean as long as the content and rewards are not in any way engaging or fun, it might as well be easy.

Only thing ZOS might not have planned carefully is that as players now burn through VR content a lot quicker, there will be an even bigger demand for end-game dungeons and a working cyrodiil. Considering their current list of problems and their history of big bugs being introduced with every major update ZOS will have to either seriously up their game or have to face even more players quitting than before.

NorthernFury

Dang. This is really disappointing. I really liked that the difficulty of VR made one have to tactically plan every fight if you wanted to do it solo.

I think many people missed the point; point being that you had to get straight with your tactics and how to play your build if you wanted to solo, and that some mobs required different skills to beat than others. Also, if something was too difficult to beat solo, well, that's what guilds and friends lists are for. Even 2-man groups would have zero difficulty with the content.

I understand that the LFG function here kinda stinks, but there are ways around that. I also understand that stamina/weapon-based builds are not nearly as efficient as magicka-based skills, and that heavy armor is not nearly as big a benefit as it should be, but it was workable if the player was smart.

Before the attacks come, my first VR12 went solo all the way as a stam-based 2H DK, and was able to do all of the content.

Anastasia

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

MonkeyAssassin24 wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

MonkeyAssassin24 wrote: »

Hilgara wrote: »

For over a month now me and a few others have been defending the difficulty against the vocal minority. Now the battle has been lost the majority suddenly find their voice. Where were you all a month ago?

It's not that people have suddenly seen the error in their thoughts. It's the fact that instead of balancing the scale they have replaced the heavier side with a feather. Don't start this "I told you so" movement, players asked for VR to be toned down but this is so far beyond that. All anyone wanted was balance. The players that wanted it easy were the minority of the so called vocal minority that just wanted it fine-tuned.

To be fair there were a lot of people that did not care about the difficulty but the content and the rewards. To be more precise, they wanted quests that were a logical continuation of what had happened story-wise and rewards that matched the effort you put in to beat mobs with combined heath of 20k that hit like trucks.

Unfortunately that would involved a lot of changes, not to mention that those voices became irrelevant as the discussion became nore and more centered around the issue difficulty, not the storyline and reward system.

Considering what's happened to DK and Sorc abilities, I could see a that huge nerfbat coming from a mile away

I agree with you, I was one of those people as well. I just wanted balance and something different than a brick wall in the story line but like you said, that's a major change.

Maybe I should start looking at my thoughts of this game as dumb optimism instead of blind optimism

Look, in a cynical way I'm actually not fussed. VR went from pointless, boring and hard...to pointless, boring and easy. So I suppose in some ways it's a good change.

What everyone in my guild did as soon as they hit VR1 was:
a) Go to Grindlorn and grind balamath or hircines haunt to v12
b) Go back to VR zones (as a v12 now) for the skill points which involved either chasing skyshards or doing the caldwell's quests.

So I suppose the 2nd part has now become a lot easier, which for power-levellers is actually a good change. I mean as long as the content and rewards are not in any way engaging or fun, it might as well be easy.

Only thing ZOS might not have planned carefully is that as players now burn through VR content a lot quicker, there will be an even bigger demand for end-game dungeons and a working cyrodiil. Considering their current list of problems and their history of big bugs being introduced with every major update ZOS will have to either seriously up their game or have to face even more players quitting than before.

---

"...which for power-levelers is actually a good change."

Yup

Mordria

"dumped" down?

Is that a thing now?

wrlifeboil

NorthernFury wrote: »

Dang. This is really disappointing. I really liked that the difficulty of VR made one have to tactically plan every fight if you wanted to do it solo.

I think many people missed the point; point being that you had to get straight with your tactics and how to play your build if you wanted to solo, and that some mobs required different skills to beat than others. Also, if something was too difficult to beat solo, well, that's what guilds and friends lists are for. Even 2-man groups would have zero difficulty with the content.

I understand that the LFG function here kinda stinks, but there are ways around that. I also understand that stamina/weapon-based builds are not nearly as efficient as magicka-based skills, and that heavy armor is not nearly as big a benefit as it should be, but it was workable if the player was smart.

Before the attacks come, my first VR12 went solo all the way as a stam-based 2H DK, and was able to do all of the content.

Unrealistic. That kind of philosphy doesn't apply to triple-A games that cost nine figures to develop and sell. Trying to cater to elitists only works for high priced luxury goods that can make money selling fewer units, not mass market video games. You only need the elitists to buy the box or download then go away. The masses stay around to pay the bills and keep the lights on.

Atreyu

Me killing mobs before the VR nerf (Im the guy on the left)





Me killing mobs after the VR nerf

Anilahation

LOL I quit ESO and my sub runs out in a few days but hearing this I'll pass. If I wanted everything handed to me I would have played WoW, guess I'm of to wildstar then.

Maulkin

Anastasia wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

MonkeyAssassin24 wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

MonkeyAssassin24 wrote: »

Hilgara wrote: »

For over a month now me and a few others have been defending the difficulty against the vocal minority. Now the battle has been lost the majority suddenly find their voice. Where were you all a month ago?

It's not that people have suddenly seen the error in their thoughts. It's the fact that instead of balancing the scale they have replaced the heavier side with a feather. Don't start this "I told you so" movement, players asked for VR to be toned down but this is so far beyond that. All anyone wanted was balance. The players that wanted it easy were the minority of the so called vocal minority that just wanted it fine-tuned.

To be fair there were a lot of people that did not care about the difficulty but the content and the rewards. To be more precise, they wanted quests that were a logical continuation of what had happened story-wise and rewards that matched the effort you put in to beat mobs with combined heath of 20k that hit like trucks.

Unfortunately that would involved a lot of changes, not to mention that those voices became irrelevant as the discussion became nore and more centered around the issue difficulty, not the storyline and reward system.

Considering what's happened to DK and Sorc abilities, I could see a that huge nerfbat coming from a mile away

I agree with you, I was one of those people as well. I just wanted balance and something different than a brick wall in the story line but like you said, that's a major change.

Maybe I should start looking at my thoughts of this game as dumb optimism instead of blind optimism

Look, in a cynical way I'm actually not fussed. VR went from pointless, boring and hard...to pointless, boring and easy. So I suppose in some ways it's a good change.

What everyone in my guild did as soon as they hit VR1 was:
a) Go to Grindlorn and grind balamath or hircines haunt to v12
b) Go back to VR zones (as a v12 now) for the skill points which involved either chasing skyshards or doing the caldwell's quests.

So I suppose the 2nd part has now become a lot easier, which for power-levellers is actually a good change. I mean as long as the content and rewards are not in any way engaging or fun, it might as well be easy.

Only thing ZOS might not have planned carefully is that as players now burn through VR content a lot quicker, there will be an even bigger demand for end-game dungeons and a working cyrodiil. Considering their current list of problems and their history of big bugs being introduced with every major update ZOS will have to either seriously up their game or have to face even more players quitting than before.

---

"...which for power-levelers is actually a good change."

Yup

Did you just change my spelling from British to American English?
LOL

Vuron

wrlifeboil wrote: »

Unrealistic. That kind of philosphy doesn't apply to triple-A games that cost nine figures to develop and sell. Trying to cater to elitists only works for high priced luxury goods that can make money selling fewer units, not mass market video games. You only need the elitists to buy the box or download then go away. The masses stay around to pay the bills and keep the lights on.

This is not really true. The "masses" in this game, or the most vocal, seem to consist of solo players, explorers, and RPs, that don't want to do group content or dungeons. If they would have grouped, there would be no need to change any VR content, as it was pointed out that they reason for the difference in difficulty between VR and 1-50 was to try to introduce people to grouping.

At some point, even these gamers will hit max level, and there is even less for them to do than there is for grinders. This is NOT an exploration game like Skyrim. You can't go back to previous areas and get new quests, you can't replay content unless you create an alt, and you can't continue to explorer once you've found an area. These are the people that will realize this isn't Skyrim and will leave.

MMO vets and grinders have been proven to stay in games for years, even doing the same content over and over every day.

Sihnfahl

Vuron wrote: »

If they would have grouped

What groups? I opened up for groups regularly in V5+ content, and it was near impossible to find a group for world questing; most of the time, I was forced to solo the stuff.

It got even worse when Craglorn came out - people did the Anomaly Grind instead of questing.

So don't presume to say it's the fault of folks who 'didn't group' in later Vet content when people just were not there and Guilds were grinding out in Craglorn.

KariTR

wrlifeboil wrote: »

NorthernFury wrote: »

Dang. This is really disappointing. I really liked that the difficulty of VR made one have to tactically plan every fight if you wanted to do it solo.

I think many people missed the point; point being that you had to get straight with your tactics and how to play your build if you wanted to solo, and that some mobs required different skills to beat than others. Also, if something was too difficult to beat solo, well, that's what guilds and friends lists are for. Even 2-man groups would have zero difficulty with the content.

I understand that the LFG function here kinda stinks, but there are ways around that. I also understand that stamina/weapon-based builds are not nearly as efficient as magicka-based skills, and that heavy armor is not nearly as big a benefit as it should be, but it was workable if the player was smart.

Before the attacks come, my first VR12 went solo all the way as a stam-based 2H DK, and was able to do all of the content.

Unrealistic. That kind of philosphy doesn't apply to triple-A games that cost nine figures to develop and sell. Trying to cater to elitists only works for high priced luxury goods that can make money selling fewer units, not mass market video games. You only need the elitists to buy the box or download then go away. The masses stay around to pay the bills and keep the lights on.

I am not a bloody elitist! :grr

The 'elitists' were at cap a couple of weeks after launch, they couldn't give a damn about these changes. I am still to get to cap. I care about these changes because I like to be challenged a little by my games. It keeps them interesting.

No challenge=no long-term sub from me, a player with a history of staying loyal to games that provide me with challenge. I'm under no illusion that my sub counts for anything, but I do know I am the kind of player who sticks around to pay the bills.

Thank the Nine I got the Lion's Den achievement last night before this debacle.

Perphection

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

I just let a V8 mob use a heavy attack on me that took it 2 seconds to land, I have 1230 armor....

I sustained 273 damage. Trivial!

Thanks the 9 for PvP, pve has become irrelevant.

Do NOT be thankfully for PvP in it's current state! That's just crazy talk

Ojustaboo

KariTR wrote: »

wrlifeboil wrote: »

NorthernFury wrote: »

Dang. This is really disappointing. I really liked that the difficulty of VR made one have to tactically plan every fight if you wanted to do it solo.

I think many people missed the point; point being that you had to get straight with your tactics and how to play your build if you wanted to solo, and that some mobs required different skills to beat than others. Also, if something was too difficult to beat solo, well, that's what guilds and friends lists are for. Even 2-man groups would have zero difficulty with the content.

I understand that the LFG function here kinda stinks, but there are ways around that. I also understand that stamina/weapon-based builds are not nearly as efficient as magicka-based skills, and that heavy armor is not nearly as big a benefit as it should be, but it was workable if the player was smart.

Before the attacks come, my first VR12 went solo all the way as a stam-based 2H DK, and was able to do all of the content.

Unrealistic. That kind of philosphy doesn't apply to triple-A games that cost nine figures to develop and sell. Trying to cater to elitists only works for high priced luxury goods that can make money selling fewer units, not mass market video games. You only need the elitists to buy the box or download then go away. The masses stay around to pay the bills and keep the lights on.

I am not a bloody elitist! :grr

The 'elitists' were at cap a couple of weeks after launch, they couldn't give a damn about these changes. I am still to get to cap. I care about these changes because I like to be challenged a little by my games. It keeps them interesting.

No challenge=no long-term sub from me, a player with a history of staying loyal to games that provide me with challenge. I'm under no illusion that my sub counts for anything, but I do know I am the kind of player who sticks around to pay the bills.

Thank the Nine I got the Lion's Den achievement last night before this debacle.

Yep, getting sick and tired of this.

Time and time again I have pointed out how I am nowhere near a very good player, or how I'm often the weakest link in a dungeon group etc.

But because I was really enjoying the vet difficulty, I am apparently elitist.

Papa_Hunt

Any changes to Craglorn?

wrlifeboil

Sihnfahl wrote: »

Vuron wrote: »

If they would have grouped

What groups? I opened up for groups regularly in V5+ content, and it was near impossible to find a group for world questing; most of the time, I was forced to solo the stuff.

It got even worse when Craglorn came out - people did the Anomaly Grind instead of questing.

So don't presume to say it's the fault of folks who 'didn't group' in later Vet content when people just were not there and Guilds were grinding out in Craglorn.

I kept dying on the VR zone quest at the hatching pools during this past weekend. So I thought to myself I'll just wait until someone else comes around to do the quest too. Not a single person for more than half an hour. Granted it might have been late for the east coasters but still it was during the weekend.

Hilgara

wrlifeboil wrote: »

Sihnfahl wrote: »

Vuron wrote: »

If they would have grouped

What groups? I opened up for groups regularly in V5+ content, and it was near impossible to find a group for world questing; most of the time, I was forced to solo the stuff.

It got even worse when Craglorn came out - people did the Anomaly Grind instead of questing.

So don't presume to say it's the fault of folks who 'didn't group' in later Vet content when people just were not there and Guilds were grinding out in Craglorn.

I kept dying on the VR zone quest at the hatching pools during this past weekend. So I thought to myself I'll just wait until someone else comes around to do the quest too. Not a single person for more than half an hour. Granted it might have been late for the east coasters but still it was during the weekend.

So you just kept plugging away doing the same thing not thinking there may be a mechanic to the quest you were missing. There is a trick to doing that quest. Again that is depth in the game that some just couldn't figure out.

SirAndy

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

I would say dumped down

Now that's what i call ironic!

wrlifeboil

Hilgara wrote: »

wrlifeboil wrote: »

Sihnfahl wrote: »

Vuron wrote: »

If they would have grouped

What groups? I opened up for groups regularly in V5+ content, and it was near impossible to find a group for world questing; most of the time, I was forced to solo the stuff.

It got even worse when Craglorn came out - people did the Anomaly Grind instead of questing.

So don't presume to say it's the fault of folks who 'didn't group' in later Vet content when people just were not there and Guilds were grinding out in Craglorn.

I kept dying on the VR zone quest at the hatching pools during this past weekend. So I thought to myself I'll just wait until someone else comes around to do the quest too. Not a single person for more than half an hour. Granted it might have been late for the east coasters but still it was during the weekend.

So you just kept plugging away doing the same thing not thinking there may be a mechanic to the quest you were missing. There is a trick to doing that quest. Again that is depth in the game that some just couldn't figure out.

The point was VR zones aren't populated enough to form random pickup groups on a whim. Players on this forum who claim that grouping is the answer to all problems are clueless how or when others play this game.

Caroloces

I am not a bloody elitist! :grr

The 'elitists' were at cap a couple of weeks after launch, they couldn't give a damn about these changes. I am still to get to cap. I care about these changes because I like to be challenged a little by my games. It keeps them interesting.

No challenge=no long-term sub from me, a player with a history of staying loyal to games that provide me with challenge. I'm under no illusion that my sub counts for anything, but I do know I am the kind of player who sticks around to pay the bills.

Here, here! I'm the same. I've been carefully working, reworking my build to prepare for difficult Vet content. This news lets the wind out of my sails. The irony is that the mature players who enjoy the intellectual challenge of molding a formidable build to meet difficult play are the ones who support and have the wherewithal to pay a monthly sub fee.

Hilgara

wrlifeboil wrote: »

Hilgara wrote: »

wrlifeboil wrote: »

Sihnfahl wrote: »

Vuron wrote: »

If they would have grouped

What groups? I opened up for groups regularly in V5+ content, and it was near impossible to find a group for world questing; most of the time, I was forced to solo the stuff.

It got even worse when Craglorn came out - people did the Anomaly Grind instead of questing.

So don't presume to say it's the fault of folks who 'didn't group' in later Vet content when people just were not there and Guilds were grinding out in Craglorn.

I kept dying on the VR zone quest at the hatching pools during this past weekend. So I thought to myself I'll just wait until someone else comes around to do the quest too. Not a single person for more than half an hour. Granted it might have been late for the east coasters but still it was during the weekend.

So you just kept plugging away doing the same thing not thinking there may be a mechanic to the quest you were missing. There is a trick to doing that quest. Again that is depth in the game that some just couldn't figure out.

The point was VR zones aren't populated enough to form random pickup groups on a whim. Players on this forum who claim that grouping is the answer to all problems are clueless how or when others play this game.

Hint.

I could be done alone. As could many of the uber hard quests. Most of the just needed thinking about and not blind banzai tactics. There's nearly always a way to make them easier.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

I cant wait to get home and see the hundreds of people filling the VR content tonight. They will be there right?

Hilgara

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

I cant wait to get home and see the hundreds of people filling the VR content tonight. They will be there right?

Sure they will. After all, making it easier nullifies all those complaints about it being boring doesnt it?

LariahHunding

Atreyu wrote: »

Me killing mobs before the VR nerf (Im the guy on the left)





Me killing mobs after the VR nerf

This is so awesome just had to reroll it.

wrlifeboil

charles.cavanaughub17_ESO wrote: »

I am not a bloody elitist! :grr

The 'elitists' were at cap a couple of weeks after launch, they couldn't give a damn about these changes. I am still to get to cap. I care about these changes because I like to be challenged a little by my games. It keeps them interesting.

No challenge=no long-term sub from me, a player with a history of staying loyal to games that provide me with challenge. I'm under no illusion that my sub counts for anything, but I do know I am the kind of player who sticks around to pay the bills.

Here, here! I'm the same. I've been carefully working, reworking my build to prepare for difficult Vet content. This news lets the wind out of my sails. The irony is that the mature players who enjoy the intellectual challenge of molding a formidable build to meet difficult play are the ones who support and have the wherewithal to pay a monthly sub fee.

When you get Cadwell's Gold by the end of the week, come back and we'll say that you were right. Until then, it's just talk.

nerevarine1138

wrlifeboil wrote: »

charles.cavanaughub17_ESO wrote: »

I am not a bloody elitist! :grr

The 'elitists' were at cap a couple of weeks after launch, they couldn't give a damn about these changes. I am still to get to cap. I care about these changes because I like to be challenged a little by my games. It keeps them interesting.

No challenge=no long-term sub from me, a player with a history of staying loyal to games that provide me with challenge. I'm under no illusion that my sub counts for anything, but I do know I am the kind of player who sticks around to pay the bills.

Here, here! I'm the same. I've been carefully working, reworking my build to prepare for difficult Vet content. This news lets the wind out of my sails. The irony is that the mature players who enjoy the intellectual challenge of molding a formidable build to meet difficult play are the ones who support and have the wherewithal to pay a monthly sub fee.

When you get Cadwell's Gold by the end of the week, come back and we'll say that you were right. Until then, it's just talk.

The fact that plenty of people (yes, even "casuals") made it through VR questing without whining says that this was an overreaction. I don't know when people stopped wanting some challenge in their games, but if this is what the community wants, the community shot itself in the foot.

Grim13

Sorry, I'm finding it impossible to concentrate on the topic when the OP used "Dumped" instead of dumbed...

..I'd like to think that was some clever form of meta-irony... but I doubt it.

Vordar

Zenimax is doing what they have to do to repopulate VR zones, plain and simple, its not about whinning, or player feedback, its about what is really happening in VR zones. Ghost towns, at any time, so if you force grouping in a place where there is no one to group with you doing it wrong.

This may not be the best solution to the problem, but Zeni is betting that making VR easier more people will want to play in it. If people want VR to stay hard then go play in those zones not just Craglorn. A couple days last week I played in VR6 and VR7 zones without seeing another player for over 4 hours.