LOL dumped down

Sihnfahl

Archaole wrote: »

Let's face it, ZoS couldn't decide at first if this was an MMO or a single player RPG.

What gave you that idea?

The broken grouping and phasing that made it impossible to help a friend unless you specifically held back on days they couldn't play so you wouldn't go out of phase with them in areas?

The mix of questlines where collaboration was SOMEWHAT possible and those you were forced to solo?

nudel

Evergnar wrote: »

Why do you guys think they always take such extreme measures when changing stuff? I'm being serious. Why not try a 5-10% change to start with? I just can't understand Zos' logic most of time.

This.

If ZOS did not have a very bad track record with regards to nerfs, I wouldn't have complained nearly as hard the past week. Everyone laughed and said relax and wait and see what they do. Maybe it will just be a middle-ground. I knew better.

Now you can see what I feared all along.

I swear Zenimax salivates whenever the word 'nerf' is floated around their offices.

nudel

mumok wrote: »

The Devs and Admins must be staring at this thread with their mouths open not knowing what to do.

For weeks everyone(I say everyone because I have never seen a thread about VR content being too easy)has complained about VR content being "too hard" and "no fun" and "why can V1-V12 be like 1-50", and now ZOS has answered the call, and we have the same forum burning them at the stake.

I have not been in game yet so it may have been over adjusted but the patch notes do say "the first in a series of changes we'll be making to improve the post-50 experience overall."

I am one of the people that wanted to see the difficulty adjusted in VR so if they did gimp it a little too much then I will enjoy some easier XP. I'm sure they will turn the difficulty back up next update.

I doubt it. I've never seen ZOS go back on a PVE nerf, unless you count the accidental buff to VR mobs awhile back. It was a bug/ accident, so I don't.

Cody

I soloed 2 world bosses in auridon, V6, with my NB archer, after this was released. lol. I myself don't really care though, call me casual, flame me, heck call me a troll, even, but I don't care about this change. As long as I can still have fun, and play PvP after(which I heard the FPS issue is STILL not fixed:() its fine with me.

discosoc

It still amazes me how many people get common expressions so wrong (intensive purposes, dumped down, etc.). Education is so lacking.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

Vahrokh wrote: »

wrlifeboil wrote: »

Unrealistic. That kind of philosphy doesn't apply to triple-A games that cost nine figures to develop and sell. Trying to cater to elitists only works for high priced luxury goods that can make money selling fewer units, not mass market video games. You only need the elitists to buy the box or download then go away. The masses stay around to pay the bills and keep the lights on.

There's not a single MMOs in 2 decades that tanked at launch and then recovered thanks to dumbing it down to WoW levels. Not one.

So, the "philosophy" did not work for 2 decades, it's not going to suddenly work for ESO.
Quite the contrary.

1) Less lag, few hotkeys + telegraphed skills, superior PvP (and free) game that actually has the numbers: GW2.

2) Simpleton oriented, yet polished, sturdy, dependable game that actually has the numbers: WoW.

3) Intelligent player oriented, no discounts, harsh game that is slowly growing since 2003 despite spitting on simpletons' faces: EvE Online.


ESO:

- Simpleton oriented.

- Not polished, not sturdy, laggy.

- Classes imbalances.

- Furiously losing numbers.


So, in which category do we put this AAA game?

I don't know. 4 months in this game to me is almost exactly where I remember GW2 being 4 months in. It was a game with no meaningful pvp, character balance was all over, end game bugged to hell, end game content getting nerfed because there were to many undead killing people, wvwvw an unbalanced mess some servers getting steamrolled, the game struggling to decide what it wanted to be as most its population seemed to reject the idea of, when you finish your story, go do all the others, as end game.

It is actually starting to get a little creepy...

But maybe I was drunk.

magickats242cub18_ESO

discosoc wrote: »

It still amazes me how many people get common expressions so wrong (intensive purposes, dumped down, etc.). Education is so lacking.

Speaking of dumped down, I think this sounds better:

Tabbycat

Dumped down? Your in game girlfriend broke up with you while pushing your character off a cliff?

I'm sorry, I can't do a serious discussion with this thread title.

adino

The funny thing is that, this promotes endgame as more people will get to vr12 much faster now. Well when they get there they will be faced with FPS issues both in cryodiil and large groups (such as those required in craglorn). So now everyone rushes to the end to find out they can't do anything anymore. Good game strategy right?

kijima

what you are experiencing is called dumbed-down, not dumped down.

Garetth

Audigy wrote: »

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

Just did some V8 tests. Mob health is reduced by a third, the damage they do is trivial and you don't even have to think about any tactics against groups of 3 mobs....

I would say dumped down. If anyone has problems now then it is a problem between chair and screen.

Its not dumbed down, its now accessible by everyone not running hardcore Fotm specs. Stop being an elitist who wants the game to fail.

I don't like Elitism in games, but I still think he is right. The danger of losing people is much higher if you deny them optional content that they enjoyed.

If the VR zones were too hard for you, you could go there with an alt from 1-50.

While I didn't test the zones yet, I think its quite depressing to know that absolutely no knowledge about the class or dodge and interrupt seem to be needed now.

This wont help the game, but put its success in jeopardy. Lets face it, while you might not be such a good player, many are and if they all leave then you will be pretty much alone in this game.

Also ask yourself how you will ever get better if you never try and learn? Don't you want to improve your game?

Why would these awesome, incredible, amazing players leave? I'm sure their awesomeness has already allowed them to have 8 V12 players, on probably 3 accounts, so this change would mean nothing to their greatness.

None of the dungeons or Craglorn was nerfed so they can still stroke their epeens there.

All is well.

Garetth

Vuron wrote: »

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

fethry8oeb17_ESO wrote: »

NONO NO don't turn the difficulty down, why the hell im playing this anymore, it takes more than 1 sec to figure out tacks!!!!!!! sry haven't played NeW version yet.... change mechs...

Let me guess stick and skirt build.

The very fact that you keep bringing up the staff and light armor argument proves that you really have no idea what is going on with this game.

The FotM builds were really only for end-game dungeons (trials and VR). Somehow, people latched on to this idea that they had to play these builds the entire way through VR. Since most of the builds were designed around single-target, boss DPS, they aren't the best builds for leveling. Now, you have people that weren't very good to begin with playing builds that weren't designed for leveling and they are complaining even more.

For the record, I leveled from 1-VR12 using a single DW bar, Medium Armor NB and it was a walk in the park. My 2nd bar was used for nothing more than leveling skills.

WOW! You are so awesome I get a hard-on just re-reading your amazing post!

Tabbycat

Garetth wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

Just did some V8 tests. Mob health is reduced by a third, the damage they do is trivial and you don't even have to think about any tactics against groups of 3 mobs....

I would say dumped down. If anyone has problems now then it is a problem between chair and screen.

Its not dumbed down, its now accessible by everyone not running hardcore Fotm specs. Stop being an elitist who wants the game to fail.

I don't like Elitism in games, but I still think he is right. The danger of losing people is much higher if you deny them optional content that they enjoyed.

If the VR zones were too hard for you, you could go there with an alt from 1-50.

While I didn't test the zones yet, I think its quite depressing to know that absolutely no knowledge about the class or dodge and interrupt seem to be needed now.

This wont help the game, but put its success in jeopardy. Lets face it, while you might not be such a good player, many are and if they all leave then you will be pretty much alone in this game.

Also ask yourself how you will ever get better if you never try and learn? Don't you want to improve your game?

Why would these awesome, incredible, amazing players leave? I'm sure their awesomeness has already allowed them to have 8 V12 players, on probably 3 accounts, so this change would mean nothing to their greatness.

None of the dungeons or Craglorn was nerfed so they can still stroke their epeens there.

All is well.

You do realize it means their prestigious VR zones will now be filled with the common riff-raff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FucbvoFFy0

Garetth

ferzalrwb17_ESO wrote: »

Hilgara wrote: »

For over a month now me and a few others have been defending the difficulty against the vocal minority. Now the battle has been lost the majority suddenly find their voice. Where were you all a month ago?

I'm pretty sure the majority, from what I've read here, were saying the content was not too hard. I was saying it here. Most people in game have said that. Most people in my guild have said that.

I'm willing to bet that the "most" people you are referring to is not even in the same galaxy as the amount of people who have unsubbed do to the VR difficulty.

"Most" is definitely subjective and I just bet that Zemi knows which is which.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

Tabbycat wrote: »

Garetth wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

Just did some V8 tests. Mob health is reduced by a third, the damage they do is trivial and you don't even have to think about any tactics against groups of 3 mobs....

I would say dumped down. If anyone has problems now then it is a problem between chair and screen.

Its not dumbed down, its now accessible by everyone not running hardcore Fotm specs. Stop being an elitist who wants the game to fail.

I don't like Elitism in games, but I still think he is right. The danger of losing people is much higher if you deny them optional content that they enjoyed.

If the VR zones were too hard for you, you could go there with an alt from 1-50.

While I didn't test the zones yet, I think its quite depressing to know that absolutely no knowledge about the class or dodge and interrupt seem to be needed now.

This wont help the game, but put its success in jeopardy. Lets face it, while you might not be such a good player, many are and if they all leave then you will be pretty much alone in this game.

Also ask yourself how you will ever get better if you never try and learn? Don't you want to improve your game?

Why would these awesome, incredible, amazing players leave? I'm sure their awesomeness has already allowed them to have 8 V12 players, on probably 3 accounts, so this change would mean nothing to their greatness.

None of the dungeons or Craglorn was nerfed so they can still stroke their epeens there.

All is well.

You do realize it means their prestigious VR zones will now be filled with the common riff-raff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FucbvoFFy0

I really sort of doubt it. Have you played the VR zones? Nerfing the damage the mobs do isn't going to make the population explode. They are going to need some more love.

But maybe riff-raff enjoy mindlessly grinding out exp as the betray their faction and get no real reward for it.

Garetth

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »

LOL I quit ESO and my sub runs out in a few days but hearing this I'll pass. If I wanted everything handed to me I would have played WoW, guess I'm of to wildstar then.

Cartoons for the win!

Tabbycat

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Tabbycat wrote: »

Garetth wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

Just did some V8 tests. Mob health is reduced by a third, the damage they do is trivial and you don't even have to think about any tactics against groups of 3 mobs....

I would say dumped down. If anyone has problems now then it is a problem between chair and screen.

Its not dumbed down, its now accessible by everyone not running hardcore Fotm specs. Stop being an elitist who wants the game to fail.

I don't like Elitism in games, but I still think he is right. The danger of losing people is much higher if you deny them optional content that they enjoyed.

If the VR zones were too hard for you, you could go there with an alt from 1-50.

While I didn't test the zones yet, I think its quite depressing to know that absolutely no knowledge about the class or dodge and interrupt seem to be needed now.

This wont help the game, but put its success in jeopardy. Lets face it, while you might not be such a good player, many are and if they all leave then you will be pretty much alone in this game.

Also ask yourself how you will ever get better if you never try and learn? Don't you want to improve your game?

Why would these awesome, incredible, amazing players leave? I'm sure their awesomeness has already allowed them to have 8 V12 players, on probably 3 accounts, so this change would mean nothing to their greatness.

None of the dungeons or Craglorn was nerfed so they can still stroke their epeens there.

All is well.

You do realize it means their prestigious VR zones will now be filled with the common riff-raff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FucbvoFFy0

I really sort of doubt it. Have you played the VR zones? Nerfing the damage the mobs do isn't going to make the population explode. They are going to need some more love.

But maybe riff-raff enjoy mindlessly grinding out exp as the betray their faction and get no real reward for it.

If people didn't enjoy them before and you don't expect people to come back now because of the change, why do so many people care that the content was made a bit easier?

Shiroro

"VR questing was too easy before that's why I skipped it and leveled in Craglorn where it's even easier"
- 90% of this thread

We get it, you're great, you're a legend, your spec was carefully chosen to fight VR zone mobs (spam cheese/CC), whatever. The fact is that it was obnoxious to play so LITERALLY NOBODY PLAYED IT. The zones were empty and you can't deny that.

Now ZOS has to do something to actually get people interested in the game again so that these people will get back on the escalator to VR12.

Svann

kijima wrote: »

what you are experiencing is called dumbed-down, not dumped down.

spelling elitist

MonkeyAssassin24

Shiroro wrote: »

"VR questing was too easy before that's why I skipped it and leveled in Craglorn where it's even easier"
- 90% of this thread

We get it, you're great, you're a legend, your spec was carefully chosen to fight VR zone mobs (spam cheese/CC), whatever. The fact is that it was obnoxious to play so LITERALLY NOBODY PLAYED IT. The zones were empty and you can't deny that.

Now ZOS has to do something to actually get people interested in the game again so that these people will get back on the escalator to VR12.

My thoughts exactly. VR mobs basically required a certain few skills and this lead to zero customization and zero diversity. Everyone talking down to players saying l2p were basically saying "learn how to use these 2-3 skills". That is not a challenge, that is a loophole to bad balance. I was slowly making it through vr as a dw-NB but it was much more frustrating than fun and also called for no flexibility in skill allocation. Everyone shouts just group up and profit, but when there is no one to group with, there will never be profit.

VR mob damage did need an adjustment but the real fix to this is fixing skills and synergies to allow for builds that couldn't work to actually be useful in the higher content. This however requires a lot more time and work so for right now, this is the solution to allow this game to live on (despite the continuing doomsayers).

vyndral13preub18_ESO

Tabbycat wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Tabbycat wrote: »

Garetth wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

Just did some V8 tests. Mob health is reduced by a third, the damage they do is trivial and you don't even have to think about any tactics against groups of 3 mobs....

I would say dumped down. If anyone has problems now then it is a problem between chair and screen.

Its not dumbed down, its now accessible by everyone not running hardcore Fotm specs. Stop being an elitist who wants the game to fail.

I don't like Elitism in games, but I still think he is right. The danger of losing people is much higher if you deny them optional content that they enjoyed.

If the VR zones were too hard for you, you could go there with an alt from 1-50.

While I didn't test the zones yet, I think its quite depressing to know that absolutely no knowledge about the class or dodge and interrupt seem to be needed now.

This wont help the game, but put its success in jeopardy. Lets face it, while you might not be such a good player, many are and if they all leave then you will be pretty much alone in this game.

Also ask yourself how you will ever get better if you never try and learn? Don't you want to improve your game?

Why would these awesome, incredible, amazing players leave? I'm sure their awesomeness has already allowed them to have 8 V12 players, on probably 3 accounts, so this change would mean nothing to their greatness.

None of the dungeons or Craglorn was nerfed so they can still stroke their epeens there.

All is well.

You do realize it means their prestigious VR zones will now be filled with the common riff-raff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FucbvoFFy0

I really sort of doubt it. Have you played the VR zones? Nerfing the damage the mobs do isn't going to make the population explode. They are going to need some more love.

But maybe riff-raff enjoy mindlessly grinding out exp as the betray their faction and get no real reward for it.

If people didn't enjoy them before and you don't expect people to come back now because of the change, why do so many people care that the content was made a bit easier?

Im sure some will come back. But I don't think it is as many as people think. And I would imagine the VR 6+ areas will still be fairly void of life compared to other zones.

Mostly for a few reasons, people enjoyed the 1-50. It felt good you got to 50 and felt cool. Then you realized nothing changed, more leveling. This feeling is still there. And then you throw in slow grinding advancement. 1-50 felt good, a couple hours got you a level. I play 2-4 hours a day just sort of mucking about leveling. It will take me 4-6 days to do VR 6 alone. People like to advance. You throw in no advancement and no reward. I'm not sure how long people will hang out for that. And really questing speed wasn't speed up much. Most of the change I noticed was in how hard the mobs hit, not their life. So it isn't like all of a sudden people are going to be ripping off quest. No still the same slow time to kill, just no dying.

But obviously, this is just my opinion. But I liked VR as it was. And that is about all I liked about the old VR. So I may be a horrible judge of what people want.

Loco_Mofo

My 6 year old nephew is having the time of his life face rolling VR, thanks ZoS!

Wolfshead

dsalter wrote: »

you do realise it's not live yet right?

It is live on US servers most like for the have there downtime yesterday

Logan9a

*their

And you'd previously edited your post as well.


I can see the good and bad issues with making it easier, however yesterday I did try it out. Felt more in line with the power curve pre- VR.

kijima

adamrussell52_ESO wrote: »

kijima wrote: »

what you are experiencing is called dumbed-down, not dumped down.

spelling elitist

Spelling?

No, just grammar.

lpool96

ItsRejectz wrote: »

dsalter wrote: »

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

Just did some V8 tests. Mob health is reduced by a third, the damage they do is trivial and you don't even have to think about any tactics against groups of 3 mobs....

I would say dumped down. If anyone has problems now then it is a problem between chair and screen.

you do realise it's not live yet right?

Wrong, it's live

Its live on the NA server, EU today after patch.