LOL dumped down

Anastasia

Vordar wrote: »

Zenimax is doing what they have to do to repopulate VR zones, plain and simple, its not about whinning, or player feedback, its about what is really happening in VR zones. Ghost towns, at any time, so if you force grouping in a place where there is no one to group with you doing it wrong.

This may not be the best solution to the problem, but Zeni is betting that making VR easier more people will want to play in it. If people want VR to stay hard the go play in those zones not just Craglorn. A couple days last week I played in VR6 and VR7 zones without seeing another player for over 4 hours.

---

"If people want VR to stay hard the go play in those zones not just Craglorn."

Too late for that middle bulge of 1-50 players that aren't even to VR. Oh well when they get there, they can solo it all easily and look forward to the consequences of what they will face in V+11 & 12. Oh wait...ZOS still has Phase II of the nerfing on the way next...not to worry.

kitsinni

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

mumok wrote: »

The Devs and Admins must be staring at this thread with their mouths open not knowing what to do.

some people have been trained to complain and throw tantrums with their money instead of actually adapting and solving problems.

."

Funny that sounds a whole like the majority of people in this thread.

nerevarine1138

DeLindsay wrote: »

Alright so I checked and also talked with Guildees about the current VR change. It would seem all ZoS did is fully revert the difficulty of VR enemies to pre-1.2 (Craglorn). I wouldn't exactly call that a nerf because the difficulty was already in place before patch 1.2 ramped it up more. I haven't checked VR Dungeons yet but did a little questing and it's pretty much exactly like it was pre-Craglorn, which arguably was pretty easy, but still.

Your guildies are confused.

Any change in regular VR enemy difficulty in 1.2 was a glitch that was corrected within a couple of days. The difficulty has not been intentionally adjusted until today.

Phinix1

Anastasia wrote: »

Oh wait...ZOS still has Phase II of the nerfing on the way next...not to worry.

Phase 2: Better loot drops if you ignore obvious long wind-up attacks and stand in fire!

Archaole

Let's face it, ZoS couldn't decide at first if this was an MMO or a single player RPG. They've now made their choice. There's no point in grouping outside of dungeons or Craglorn, because you don't have to and pvp is broken. They made their decision.

Ojustaboo

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

Anastasia wrote: »

Oh wait...ZOS still has Phase II of the nerfing on the way next...not to worry.

Phase 2: Better loot drops if you ignore obvious long wind-up attacks and stand in fire!

Nah

Phase 2: People complaining they cant solo 12 man vet 12 trials using any old skill they choose, so Zenimax makes them doable just using your left mouse button with an optional clock stopping skill.

DeLindsay

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

Alright so I checked and also talked with Guildees about the current VR change. It would seem all ZoS did is fully revert the difficulty of VR enemies to pre-1.2 (Craglorn). I wouldn't exactly call that a nerf because the difficulty was already in place before patch 1.2 ramped it up more. I haven't checked VR Dungeons yet but did a little questing and it's pretty much exactly like it was pre-Craglorn, which arguably was pretty easy, but still.

Your guildies are confused.

Any change in regular VR enemy difficulty in 1.2 was a glitch that was corrected within a couple of days. The difficulty has not been intentionally adjusted until today.

Sorry but they and I are NOT confused. I was questing in a VR6 zone THE DAY Craglorn hit for something like 7 hours until the server went down. I remember vividly my own capabilities against the various enemies in that zone. Today I went and did some quests in VR and it was pretty much identical to pre-1.2. Yes for a few days after 1.2 VR were all but impossible and ZoS did "fix" that but they ALSO increased all Health and damage output of VR enemies with 1.2 and that part stayed until today (at least mostly) because they gave us more VP per kill with that patch.

Spin it any way you like but today's change just fully reverted VR enemies to pre-1.2 difficulty.

Reevster

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

Really do you people know how badly this game was losing subs BECAUSE of VR?

No not because of VR just players who dont know how to play. I soled all the way through all the VR1 to VR10 zones just fine....I dont get it.

wrlifeboil

Ojustaboo wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

I cant wait to get home and see the hundreds of people filling the VR content tonight. They will be there right?

Hehe

More to the point, even if many do go there to see what it's now like, how many will still be there in 2 weeks time.

Should be interesting. I think the players who are interested in the lore will be more inclined to continue their slow slog through VR with their main instead of rolling alts. The fast levelers already finished the game weeks ago and are playing Wildstar or are at the beach. ZOS has to get the casuals back in before WoW's expansion is released in late autumn. If the hook isn't set by then it will be that much easier to go back to WoW even if only for the first 6-12 months of the expansion.

SirAndy

Reevster wrote: »

I soled

Got video of that?

nerevarine1138

DeLindsay wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

Alright so I checked and also talked with Guildees about the current VR change. It would seem all ZoS did is fully revert the difficulty of VR enemies to pre-1.2 (Craglorn). I wouldn't exactly call that a nerf because the difficulty was already in place before patch 1.2 ramped it up more. I haven't checked VR Dungeons yet but did a little questing and it's pretty much exactly like it was pre-Craglorn, which arguably was pretty easy, but still.

Your guildies are confused.

Any change in regular VR enemy difficulty in 1.2 was a glitch that was corrected within a couple of days. The difficulty has not been intentionally adjusted until today.

Sorry but they and I are NOT confused. I was questing in a VR6 zone THE DAY Craglorn hit for something like 7 hours until the server went down. I remember vividly my own capabilities against the various enemies in that zone. Today I went and did some quests in VR and it was pretty much identical to pre-1.2. Yes for a few days after 1.2 VR were all but impossible and ZoS did "fix" that but they ALSO increased all Health and damage output of VR enemies with 1.2 and that part stayed until today (at least mostly) because they gave us more VP per kill with that patch.

Spin it any way you like but today's change just fully reverted VR enemies to pre-1.2 difficulty.

Maybe you should re-read my post, because it may jog your memory.

If you played the day Craglorn hit, you would have seen an unintended increase in VR enemy difficulty. They fixed that. At no point did they intentionally alter the difficulty of the enemies to match the VP gain for kills. You can go ahead and check the 1.1.2 patch notes for confirmation that no such change was intended.

Today's change was to make the enemies easier than they have been at any point since release.

wrlifeboil

Reevster wrote: »

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

Really do you people know how badly this game was losing subs BECAUSE of VR?

No not because of VR just players who dont know how to play. I soled all the way through all the VR1 to VR10 zones just fine....I dont get it.

Too bad eso doesn't have an armory feature like WoW where it is possible to verify a person's stats, gear, and achievements by character or by guild.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/community/

steveb16_ESO46

Vuron wrote: »

wrlifeboil wrote: »

Unrealistic. That kind of philosphy doesn't apply to triple-A games that cost nine figures to develop and sell. Trying to cater to elitists only works for high priced luxury goods that can make money selling fewer units, not mass market video games. You only need the elitists to buy the box or download then go away. The masses stay around to pay the bills and keep the lights on.

This is not really true. The "masses" in this game, or the most vocal, seem to consist of solo players, explorers, and RPs, that don't want to do group content or dungeons. If they would have grouped, there would be no need to change any VR content, as it was pointed out that they reason for the difference in difficulty between VR and 1-50 was to try to introduce people to grouping.

At some point, even these gamers will hit max level, and there is even less for them to do than there is for grinders. This is NOT an exploration game like Skyrim. You can't go back to previous areas and get new quests, you can't replay content unless you create an alt, and you can't continue to explorer once you've found an area. These are the people that will realize this isn't Skyrim and will leave.

MMO vets and grinders have been proven to stay in games for years, even doing the same content over and over every day.

What is unrealistic is you trying to tell customers what they 'should' do. How's that been working out for you so far?

jeradlub17_ESO

OP you are DUMP !!!! rflmao

How the heck did you even do that? P isn't anywhere near B

Reevster

SirAndy wrote: »

Reevster wrote: »

I soled

Got video of that?

Ya I am going to record 100s of hours of video just for you..not , and what i mean is I finished all of cadwells silver/gold solo and most of the other solo VR content, and ya there are a few( very few) places that you needed to group for.

Komma

It's funny where all the people upset about the change are coming from. I went through the vr lvls and past vr 5 zones there was normally only 2 or 3 people tops in them. Go fight in craglorn if you want the group challenge. The change is fine. Now instead of running around the mobs to work on quests I can fight through them and it not feel like a quest grind.

Mortosk

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

Just did some V8 tests. Mob health is reduced by a third, the damage they do is trivial and you don't even have to think about any tactics against groups of 3 mobs....

I would say dumped down. If anyone has problems now then it is a problem between chair and screen.

Think the word you are looking for is dumbed (with a b).

SirAndy

Reevster wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

Reevster wrote: »

I soled

Got video of that?

Ya I am going to record 100s of hours of video just for you..not , and what i mean is I finished all of cadwells silver/gold solo and most of the other solo VR content, and ya there are a few( very few) places that you needed to group for.

@Reevster
I just want to see video of someone fixing shoes all the way through the VR grind, that's all ...
;-)

Mortosk

jeradlub17_ESO wrote: »

OP you are DUMP !!!! rflmao

How the heck did you even do that? P isn't anywhere near B

Guessing he has an evil spell check or failed Spelling in school.

Vahrokh

wrlifeboil wrote: »

Unrealistic. That kind of philosphy doesn't apply to triple-A games that cost nine figures to develop and sell. Trying to cater to elitists only works for high priced luxury goods that can make money selling fewer units, not mass market video games. You only need the elitists to buy the box or download then go away. The masses stay around to pay the bills and keep the lights on.

There's not a single MMOs in 2 decades that tanked at launch and then recovered thanks to dumbing it down to WoW levels. Not one.

So, the "philosophy" did not work for 2 decades, it's not going to suddenly work for ESO.
Quite the contrary.

1) Less lag, few hotkeys + telegraphed skills, superior PvP (and free) game that actually has the numbers: GW2.

2) Simpleton oriented, yet polished, sturdy, dependable game that actually has the numbers: WoW.

3) Intelligent player oriented, no discounts, harsh game that is slowly growing since 2003 despite spitting on simpletons' faces: EvE Online.


ESO:

- Simpleton oriented.

- Not polished, not sturdy, laggy.

- Classes imbalances.

- Furiously losing numbers.


So, in which category do we put this AAA game?

Kulthax

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

Alright so I checked and also talked with Guildees about the current VR change. It would seem all ZoS did is fully revert the difficulty of VR enemies to pre-1.2 (Craglorn). I wouldn't exactly call that a nerf because the difficulty was already in place before patch 1.2 ramped it up more. I haven't checked VR Dungeons yet but did a little questing and it's pretty much exactly like it was pre-Craglorn, which arguably was pretty easy, but still.

Your guildies are confused.

Any change in regular VR enemy difficulty in 1.2 was a glitch that was corrected within a couple of days. The difficulty has not been intentionally adjusted until today.

Sorry but they and I are NOT confused. I was questing in a VR6 zone THE DAY Craglorn hit for something like 7 hours until the server went down. I remember vividly my own capabilities against the various enemies in that zone. Today I went and did some quests in VR and it was pretty much identical to pre-1.2. Yes for a few days after 1.2 VR were all but impossible and ZoS did "fix" that but they ALSO increased all Health and damage output of VR enemies with 1.2 and that part stayed until today (at least mostly) because they gave us more VP per kill with that patch.

Spin it any way you like but today's change just fully reverted VR enemies to pre-1.2 difficulty.

Maybe you should re-read my post, because it may jog your memory.

If you played the day Craglorn hit, you would have seen an unintended increase in VR enemy difficulty. They fixed that. At no point did they intentionally alter the difficulty of the enemies to match the VP gain for kills. You can go ahead and check the 1.1.2 patch notes for confirmation that no such change was intended.

Today's change was to make the enemies easier than they have been at any point since release.

Source?

hk11

Vahrokh wrote: »

wrlifeboil wrote: »

Unrealistic. That kind of philosphy doesn't apply to triple-A games that cost nine figures to develop and sell. Trying to cater to elitists only works for high priced luxury goods that can make money selling fewer units, not mass market video games. You only need the elitists to buy the box or download then go away. The masses stay around to pay the bills and keep the lights on.

There's not a single MMOs in 2 decades that tanked at launch and then recovered thanks to dumbing it down to WoW levels. Not one.

So, the "philosophy" did not work for 2 decades, it's not going to suddenly work for ESO.
Quite the contrary.

1) Less lag, few hotkeys + telegraphed skills, superior PvP (and free) game that actually has the numbers: GW2.

2) Simpleton oriented, yet polished, sturdy, dependable game that actually has the numbers: WoW.

3) Intelligent player oriented, no discounts, harsh game that is slowly growing since 2003 despite spitting on simpletons' faces: EvE Online.


ESO:

- Simpleton oriented.

- Not polished, not sturdy, laggy.

- Classes imbalances.

- Furiously losing numbers.


So, in which category do we put this AAA game?

Some of the classes in WoW require you to keep up with a lot more in terms of procs, buffs, and sheer number of abilities. I don't know how you could dumb ESO "up" to that level. In ESO, you use the same 3 abilities over and over for the most part. Another example would be the juggernaut in SWToR. You have to be a keybind master to play that class in PvP.

hk11

oops

Vordar

Hilgara wrote: »

Vordar wrote: »

Zenimax is doing what they have to do to repopulate VR zones, plain and simple, its not about whinning, or player feedback, its about what is really happening in VR zones. Ghost towns, at any time, so if you force grouping in a place where there is no one to group with you doing it wrong.

This may not be the best solution to the problem, but Zeni is betting that making VR easier more people will want to play in it. If people want VR to stay hard the go play in those zones not just Craglorn. A couple days last week I played in VR6 and VR7 zones without seeing another player for over 4 hours.

So if you are correct and the difficulty really was the reason people weren't in VR then next week those zones will be buzzing with activity right?

We'll see

I dont think it was the difficulty, I think VR zones went dead because the reward of doing them is next to none. Going to Craglorn at VR1 and grind there yields better rewards. I think they went the nerf route on VR zones to allow solo players to experience the content, since forcing groups in an empty zone is simply not possible.

Like I said before, nerfing the zone is not what I think a good solution, better solutions would have been to up the rewards you get from those zones, but then again I guess if the rewards were better in VR, people probably would just farm VR zones instead of Craglorn, switching the problem there.

It is going to be hard as hell to try to balance out the zones with the rewards to make them attractive, nerfing has never been the best way to fix problems.

nerevarine1138

Kulthax wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

Alright so I checked and also talked with Guildees about the current VR change. It would seem all ZoS did is fully revert the difficulty of VR enemies to pre-1.2 (Craglorn). I wouldn't exactly call that a nerf because the difficulty was already in place before patch 1.2 ramped it up more. I haven't checked VR Dungeons yet but did a little questing and it's pretty much exactly like it was pre-Craglorn, which arguably was pretty easy, but still.

Your guildies are confused.

Any change in regular VR enemy difficulty in 1.2 was a glitch that was corrected within a couple of days. The difficulty has not been intentionally adjusted until today.

Sorry but they and I are NOT confused. I was questing in a VR6 zone THE DAY Craglorn hit for something like 7 hours until the server went down. I remember vividly my own capabilities against the various enemies in that zone. Today I went and did some quests in VR and it was pretty much identical to pre-1.2. Yes for a few days after 1.2 VR were all but impossible and ZoS did "fix" that but they ALSO increased all Health and damage output of VR enemies with 1.2 and that part stayed until today (at least mostly) because they gave us more VP per kill with that patch.

Spin it any way you like but today's change just fully reverted VR enemies to pre-1.2 difficulty.

Maybe you should re-read my post, because it may jog your memory.

If you played the day Craglorn hit, you would have seen an unintended increase in VR enemy difficulty. They fixed that. At no point did they intentionally alter the difficulty of the enemies to match the VP gain for kills. You can go ahead and check the 1.1.2 patch notes for confirmation that no such change was intended.

Today's change was to make the enemies easier than they have been at any point since release.

Source?

The fact that they haven't changed VR enemy difficulty until today and now they're changing it?

Would you like me to link you every patch note since release that didn't mention raising the difficulty?

Oberon

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »

LOL I quit ESO and my sub runs out in a few days but hearing this I'll pass. If I wanted everything handed to me I would have played WoW, guess I'm of to wildstar then.

Ouch. Wildstar has a lot of problems, many of them just like ESO. I hope you have fun there, but it's riddled with bugs, the PvP is a bad joke, there is zero end game solo play, teleporting harvesting bots run rampant and alts are severely discouraged. If you love grinding (and I mean a lot of grinding), you'll love Wildstar.

Considering the Carbine dev team came from Blizzard and deliberately set out to create WoW again but with their own vision, it's not surprising. I played Wildstar for the first 30 days and then cancelled--no regrets for leaving that mess.

Personally I'm hoping that Everquest Next turns out to be as good as it is looking so far, but as we've seen with ESO and Wildstar, it's a crapshoot.

reggielee

waiting on more data before getting riled up either way. lot of people, many of the same handful on either side of the debate repeatedly throwing out made up statistics and speaking for the majority of players like they know what the majority of players are.

devs dont use forums to make decisions, they use exit polls, bug reports and data from many sources. If they made this decision it is because it was warranted with their marketing strategy and was worked on for months prior to release. If the tweak is too far they will modify it after analyzing the new data. remain calm.

Hilgara

reggielee wrote: »

waiting on more data before getting riled up either way. lot of people, many of the same handful on either side of the debate repeatedly throwing out made up statistics and speaking for the majority of players like they know what the majority of players are.

devs dont use forums to make decisions, they use exit polls, bug reports and data from many sources. If they made this decision it is because it was warranted with their marketing strategy and was worked on for months prior to release. If the tweak is too far they will modify it after analyzing the new data. remain calm.

You give them too much credit. These are the same people whos "data" told them everyone would want to group for Vet content (then phased all the content so they couldn't). the oroginal difficulty was based on a erroneous assumption and is being nerfed on the same

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO

The patch notes didn't mention it, but the patch notes are neither complete nor always entirely accurate. Up until around 1.2, it seems as if the official patch notes were just a general summary - the tip of an iceberg of changes, tweaks and fixes. That situation has improved a lot lately, because their bad information backfired.

I have only second hand information, but I have been a regular participant in the game and in these forums since April, and my clear impression is that the buff to mob health and damage that came with 1.1.2 was never fully reverted until now. Look in this forum for some very clear indications that the difficulty change was reverted in part, but stayed in part. I do not have any hard numbers, but I would say that the change they did "accidentally" in 1.1.2 almost doubled both the HP and damage output for trash mobs. The quick reversal took away at least some of the buff to HP, but seems to have kept most of the increased damage.

I never experienced the VR levels first hand before 1.1.2, so I cannot say for sure whether this took the difficulty down a notch or two further from what it was at release. It's hard to know without numbers, because of course everyone who has played the game a lot since then has also gotten better at playing. If anyone has any numbers on this, please post them. I would like to see more in detail what was done, and judging from previous experience, we will not see those hard numbers from ZOS.

demenzia

mumok wrote: »

The Devs and Admins must be staring at this thread with their mouths open not knowing what to do.

For weeks everyone(I say everyone because I have never seen a thread about VR content being too easy)has complained about VR content being "too hard" and "no fun" and "why can V1-V12 be like 1-50", and now ZOS has answered the call, and we have the same forum burning them at the stake.

I have not been in game yet so it may have been over adjusted but the patch notes do say "the first in a series of changes we'll be making to improve the post-50 experience overall."

I am one of the people that wanted to see the difficulty adjusted in VR so if they did gimp it a little too much then I will enjoy some easier XP. I'm sure they will turn the difficulty back up next update.

We were silent because we were happy with what we had, and obviously it was our mistake. Now it's our turn to moan ^^

Moreover, I have no doubts that VR zones will be as empty as they were before, or even less populated, cos all skilled players will level up too quickly and will leave nerf lovers to cry alone in the dark.