Angry... Really angry

Bromburak · May 2014

F7sus4 wrote: »

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Zaxq wrote: »

Nightblade is not underpowered.

Writing this from perspetive of at least VR1 player of all existing classes - there's absolutely nothing exclusive that Nightblade skills could offer at the moment. Sure, the Assassination and Siphoning offer synergies with regular skill-trees (e.g.Dual-wield, Restoration-staff), but they're minor, and good on paper. In practice, they're slow and weak.
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Zaxq wrote: »

Nightblade is not underpowered.
Is it as good at AEing down easymobs as the other classes? no.
Can it do other things better? yes.

Really? Could you please prove your point? Is there anything crucial to your gameplay that NB offers you exclusively? Something that any other class does not have, as you claim? Please, tell us.
- Teleporting? Sorc.
- Spell/weapon critical? Depends on gear.
- Sneak? Underpowered, still - Alchemy.
- Leeching strikes? Except for DK, you can get mana/stamina-loop with every other class.

I will quote a recent conclusion about a NB that sums it up: "Apart from gaining nothing extremely unique, you are still not better in anything."

Don't get me wrong. I freakin' love the class, and its flavor. But mechanically, there is nothing great to offer and this is the cost of jack-of-all-trades.

I play light armor (magicka) and dual wield (style reasons) but could get more damage and survival with Resto staff. But i prefer 1 slot for volcanic rune, way more efficient for CC plus trigger 20% more spell power on next attack.

In general I must play stealth opener , magicka build and use Soul Harvest instead veil of blades. (cause since ulti nerf you need 2-3 pulls) . But Soul Harvest is always ready after next pull.

Vet Groups: Crouch, Shadow disguise, surpise attack ( i use concealed for speed) and killers blade. You almost take no damage vs. 4 and you always have shadow disguise with 4 sec CC follower. As well you always can use Soul Harvest every pull and if you use it as stealth opener it would even hit bosses like a truck and actually one shots easy bosses ...

Another advantage many players don't recognize because many places are still crowded is the fact that NB could run from A to B unseen and skip tons of totally unnecessary AOE packs. Any other class would need to deal with every single mobs on the way. As NB you need a minute for most public dungeons , you just run straight to the boss if there are no quests you need to finish the dungeon.

Yes highly effective NBs require a Magicka strong build because you want to push your very strong class skills to reach damage peaks and you need to "work" with Shadow disguise in many situations. If you don't like to play that way , no problem but don't tell us that NB is not unique or has no advantages. Its ridiculous.

michaelpatrickjonesnub18_ESO · May 2014

two_beer wrote: »

-I moved to the next zone as VR2. And I died. All the time. I'm now dying so fast and often that I'm out of gold for repairs.
-I don't want someone to tell me to "LTP"

Learn to play, loser.

(kidding)

I played around with Vet 1. I liked the longer leveling and think they should have made 1-50 much tougher to achieve. This way they could have eliminated Vet ranks. But some of the simple veteran quests will be too difficult for the average player base. Straight forward questing is no longer straight forward. You sometimes have to stand there and wait for someone to pass by. And hopefully receive some help.

Or you find yourself sneaking around trying to avoid enemies, rather than kill them. And that's no fun.

Since the game has no economy, and veteran means soaring death counts, repair issues at high levels are a problem. Unless you are a ChatAuction Hall swindler. Then you can sell your bits and bites. For gross sums of money.

two_beer · May 2014

I didn't expect to get 4 pages of responses. Was the server down while I slept?

First I'd like to thank the constructive use of L2P. However I will point out that one often trumpeted trait of this game from the studio is that you can play how you want - so a heavy armour, staff wielding crafter is a great plan (btw, I tried that - it's not so good).

I'd love to respec and try some other builds, but I don't have any gold. Repair costs mean I can no longer disassemble the items I find for crafting skill gains and must sell everything I find, yet I'm still losing money - worse now that I'm trying the next zone. I guess I'll have to go back a zone or two (maybe back to lvl 50 stuff) and farm for a while.

I noticed a lot of talk about Nightblades - I never said I'm a NB. In fact I'm a Dragonknight.

I levelled up trying to be a tank. Sword/shield, with varied use of my DK abilities. By VR1 I just couldn't do enough DPS to stay alive. I put the resto staff into my second slot at some point so I could heal myself and others - seems "Tank" is meaningless in most situations here, but everyone appreciates a free heal. Once I learned I couldn't hit hard enough with 1h I switched to 2h weapons and now carry a big axe.

Using 2 weapons and swapping sounds like a good idea - I use the second bar as a buff bar. Swap to weapon 2, use all the buffs there (heals are there too), swap back and fight - the self heal lasts 15 seconds, so usually most of the length of a non-boss 2-3 mob group fight. Trying to swap and use an ability then swap back never works - timing failure, or some weird glitch often gets me stuck doing nothing.

Because I didn't approach this from a clear cut (cookie cutter?) perspective I have points in lots of things, simply because it sounded cool. Some don't work nearly as well as they sound.

As far as armour and armour sets I must not understand it. Higher armour should be good, right? It seems that isn't the case. I've got a bunch of points in heavy armour - I was a tank so that made sense.

So, I guess I'm going to have to bite the bullet and respec, after farming low level stuff for a few play sessions so I can afford it.

epoling · May 2014

One person's trivial is another person's extremely challenging. The folks who have made it to VR 10 at this point are the also going to be the folks who find all content too easy. I am not ranking on one group or another. The problem is that it is hard to balance a game for both groups. It is only getting to be the time now where folks who have a tougher time are getting to the VR ranks. I think, if things are as I have heard, much more difficult at that level, the devs will have to put a pass into balancing them for everybody just to keep enough people playing. It was what you usually see in MMOs. Content is initially balanced for the hard core folks. Once the regular people start playing it gets adjusted so that the majority of the player base will be able to enjoy it.

chokesonastraweb17_ESO · May 2014

The problem truly is not l2p. It is that Zenimax forces players into those cookie cutter minmaxed builds instead of a playstyle they would like to play with themselves. And playstyle is different than "playing poorly" for those idiots who think the walkthrough way is the only way to play. There might be some people who like to play support class, and if you get forced to max DPS spec just because every enemy has suddenly 1200% more health and double damage you aren't going to be doing much support after that.

I play with a friend in 2 man team, but as my friend is a DK, and minmaxed, he can solo ahead, unlike my healer, so his interest to assist is waning, having to pull a support class behind like a drag stone just because I do OOM trying to down a single mob. And I have respecced thrice now trying to find some golden middle road in terms of DPs and heals.

I miss the days healing staff actually worked as a weapon.

ciannait · May 2014

It reminds me too much of the poor class balance in DAoC. I was dumb enough to play an EM Enchantress.

Columba · May 2014

In GW2 it was easy to respec except for ascended gear. I wish the cost to respec were lower here.

aipex8_ESO · May 2014

I play a stamina heavy, DW NB that wears medium armor (also a vampire). I've never respecced, am not a min/maxer or theorycrafter, and have been using pretty much the same play style the whole game. According to a lot of threads I've seen on this forum I should NOT be viable in VR content... But I am. I haven't even really noticed a big jump in difficulty (currently VR4). Maybe I just accidentally stumbled on the one stamina based melee build that works? My point is there isn't just one cookie cutter build for VR. You can play the way you want. I do.

F7sus4 · May 2014

Getorix wrote: »

People who believe they should be able to play anyway they want and any build should be viable are either very new to mmos or just flat out stupid.

Sure, that's obvious. The problem is not to make any possible build viable, but the ultimately unequal difficulty to make a build viable one depending on the class you choose.

There's no smaller problem than becoming a successful Sorcerer, and no bigger problem becoming a successful Nightblade (and I mean VR8-10 content, not the 40-50 level training).

Deloria wrote: »

I died lots. I cried lots. But I got there.

My handshake for getting that far as well. But you see, that's the problem, actually. You die like a puppet. And the thing is... well, not to do so.

Deloria wrote: »

According to a lot of threads I've seen on this forum I should NOT be viable in VR content... But I am.

I can't even count people who said the exact same words. And they've changed their mind around VR7-8. They not only "died and cried" a lot, they re-rolled.

That all being said - the class-skills ought to be scaled more evenly. We hope to get NB powers balanced as soon as possible.

gladen5rwb17_ESO · May 2014

Open world mobs should not have the difficulty of instance mobs. If I wanted to be faced with this level of difficulty I would enter a dungeon. If you want to learn how to play your class you learn it in those, not while wandering around the world exploring. Just because there are players that feel this is suitable, just as many do not.
Not everyone wants to group up while out in the open, groups are for, once again, instances.

kellemdros · May 2014

Hmmm... since talking that lately only some builds work.... can work bow-medium armor sorcerer? more focus on bow XD

InvictoNZ · May 2014

I changed my attributes from 49 stamina to 49 health, and died a lot less. No more 1-2 rounds of damage and dead, enough time to react, heal, etc.

Last week I swapped to 49 magicka, which was quite fun. But as soon as I accidently ran into 3 npc, I died instantly. Switched back to 49 health, and everything is "easy" again. I can tank 3 npc and AOE them without much hassle.

I'm not sure if its just the buffer of HP, or something else in the game mechanics which changes. But it is either a 1-2 hit death or almost always living.

sociald100ub17_ESO · May 2014

InvictoNZ wrote: »

I changed my attributes from 49 stamina to 49 health, and died a lot less. No more 1-2 rounds of damage and dead, enough time to react, heal, etc.

Last week I swapped to 49 magicka, which was quite fun. But as soon as I accidently ran into 3 npc, I died instantly. Switched back to 49 health, and everything is "easy" again. I can tank 3 npc and AOE them without much hassle.

I'm not sure if its just the buffer of HP, or something else in the game mechanics which changes. But it is either a 1-2 hit death or almost always living.

Strange that you seem to insist on stacking all your points into one stat no matter how you go. Play how you wish to play by all means. But perhaps you should try a mix of stats to get more of what you want.

Chirru · May 2014

look veteran is easy...just get Vampire, mage and fighter-guild skills and you breathe through. That is what i get from all the people saying it is easy. Sure..build a cooky-cutter and it is easy. I am not speaking against the easy part.

Question to all you easy leveling veterans...why have other skills at all. Why not just have the easy and successful skills in the game. Get rid of all the redundant, not useful failing skills and let us have just one successful build for all classes.

here is my suggestion:
mage skill (bold escape) and one DK skill (flag) and Vampire (siphoning) and Templar (healing) and NB siphoning and fighters-guild silver-bolts and..i forgot the name of the mage-guild (area of effect) one.

That is it...all other skills are just a waste of space and time and effort. Before you laugh...that will be all people have in Vet 11-20 once it is alive.

however...if anyone does to get through the game with the original class skills ONLY. better do it without armor because death permanent and fun is not present, instead frustration is sky-high.

Yes, Veteran ranks are easy...Very easy if you are a herd animal and follow the crowd. But if you are not...well, veteran content is difficult.

Have a nice day.

Artis · May 2014

Let me guess... OP, are you a nightblade?

stevenpotter321b14_ESO · May 2014

Its doable as a NB, I dont know if I would say easy, but it is doable. did my nb with dw, second bar pretty much unusable as its where I dumped all other weapon and guild skills to level up everything.

I am not optimized by any means, 3 light, 4 medium. Skill bar is an awful killers blade, surprise attack, flying blade, shadowy disguise, and leeching strikes. Ult has always and forever been veil of blades. I died many times along the way, but I deserve it for not having a secondary bar to use, having no true skill point focus with having every skill in game up to at least morph potential, not using food/drink, and insisting on using these crappy lvl 50 health potions from mobs.

That said. . . . I have zero desire to do it again.

Chirru · May 2014

stevenpotter321b14_ESO wrote: »

Its doable as a NB, I dont know if I would say easy, but it is doable. did my nb with dw, second bar pretty much unusable as its where I dumped all other weapon and guild skills to level up everything.

I am not optimized by any means, 3 light, 4 medium. Skill bar is an awful killers blade, surprise attack, flying blade, shadowy disguise, and leeching strikes. Ult has always and forever been veil of blades. I died many times along the way, but I deserve it for not having a secondary bar to use, having no true skill point focus with having every skill in game up to at least morph potential, not using food/drink, and insisting on using these crappy lvl 50 health potions from mobs.

That said. . . . I have zero desire to do it again.

Yep... I agree. I was using only NB class skills...got terribly frustrated and erased my NB. Building a new one now with all the nice skills needed to make things look easy. Who wants to bite me. Vampires..there I come. Mage's guild.. I am your lackey. Fighters guild...great, I am in. This time veteran ranks will be fun. All skills not uber are out. At least I will not be thrown out of a group.

Chirru · May 2014

http://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/24r2ld/veteran_levels_need_to_be_redesigned/

Laura · May 2014

I leveled up new skills all the way through veteran ranks. Hardly an optimal build with 3 to 4 non leveled abilities that have nothing to do with each other are on the bar. I also leveled up plate and medium armor from vr5 to vr10 from around 8 to 50. I really hate to be "that person" but... you may need to learn to play. It isn't an issue of build. Its veteran content. its hard. it supposed to teach you the ropes.

AryaWythers · May 2014

netsike wrote: »

But the answer will be L2P...you have to change your abilities to better ones, that's why it's called Veteran. It's not supposed to be easy. I also died pretty often, then I started to use more CC-s, armor or health buff abilities and voila, I surive easily. I just had problems on V6 maps yesterday, so I had to check them again and I was still able to make it better. So don't give up and try it. That's the beauty in it, that it's not just brainless DPS anymore.

The problem with this is the outrageous cost of respeccing your abilities. Some people like to build a character the way they want especially if they PvP. If PvP was a viable way to level, it would solve so many issues for a bunch of players of the community. Leveling in PvP is this game is one of the hardest in any of the other MMO's I've played, but not sure about other PvP's feel. It definitely would go a long way if I could actually be competitive with the PvE players...only seems logical that those who spend all there time in Cyrodiil to be as equal as people who spend most of their time in PvE!

I used to play anywhere from 5-16 hours a day for quite a while...then created an Alt and even bought Imperial upgrade to try to help. But since doing this and trying to race to 10 just to get to Cyrodiil, I realized how much I hate PvE and now play usually no more than an hour a day if that. The time keeps growing smaller each day also but still keep on hoping for some Dev love at some point.

I most likely wouldn't even made a single post about many other major PvP issues if I could level in PvP...since that is the only real reason I play MMO's in the first place, other wise I would just play one of the hundred other games I own. I should go check some of those out again or see if steam has any good deals.

gladen5rwb17_ESO · May 2014

I have no desire to become a Vampire. If becoming one is necessary to to survive Veteran leveling then something is very wrong.

dragnar12 · May 2014

"zennimax"

ty for your money
now stop complaining and *** of

Bromburak · May 2014

two_beer wrote: »

First I'd like to thank the constructive use of L2P. However I will point out that one often trumpeted trait of this game from the studio is that you can play how you want - so a heavy armour, staff wielding crafter is a great plan (btw, I tried that - it's not so good).

That's fine but you still can make mistakes as a player or not feeling comfy with certain play styles due to skill combinations ...

I levelled up trying to be a tank. Sword/shield, with varied use of my DK abilities. By VR1 I just couldn't do enough DPS to stay alive. I put the resto staff into my second slot at some point so I could heal myself and others - seems "Tank" is meaningless in most situations here, but everyone appreciates a free heal. Once I learned I couldn't hit hard enough with 1h I switched to 2h weapons and now carry a big axe.

To be honest why do you focus on weapons when it comes to damage?
It doesnt matter if you DK , you have very strong class skills for single and aoe damage. If you don't have a valid point using weapon skills why do you use them?

Its common sense to drop skills that are not useful for your strategy.

Because I didn't approach this from a clear cut (cookie cutter?) perspective I have points in lots of things, simply because it sounded cool. Some don't work nearly as well as they sound.

Thats why we all L2P to figure it out. As you see thats nothing bad ...

As far as armour and armour sets I must not understand it. Higher armour should be good, right? It seems that isn't the case. I've got a bunch of points in heavy armour - I was a tank so that made sense.

Sure you need to understand because its your passive defence sucking a lot of damage.

Don't worry about armor type, there are tons of armor and spell resi buffs in this game in various skill lines and they up for a long time and its important to plan great passive defence.

So, I guess I'm going to have to bite the bullet and respec, after farming low level stuff for a few play sessions so I can afford it.

Everyone needs a plan and strategy, and if you have learned your lessons and made some experience with your class and come to the conclusion that you might should respec, you on the right track ...

AryaWythers · May 2014

Think the major point that some are trying to convey is that the game was marketed as Play As You Like and having to pay 14,000 gold to repec just to be able to play PvE doesn't fit the companies past promises...and forget it if you want to have a PvP build, since PvP should be a huge aspect of the game...that's why I hear people asking others to spec Alliance Wars skills all the time in Cyrodiil, just a complicated system and doesn't seem fair in my book.

Cyrodiil doesn't give good xp or rewards unless you may be playing on a lopsided campaign in your favor to be able to repeat quests over and over again, and at that point I wouldn't call that PvP...I join camps where I am outnumbered because I find defense a lot more fun, but the good fights are dwindling and harder to find than they were a few weeks ago.

KerinKor · May 2014

kirnmalidus wrote: »

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vanderghast wrote: »

I am Veteran 1, have completed the quests in Coldharbour, defeated Molag, ... but Mannimarco... I M P O S S I B L E !

Uhhh.. you can't fight Molag Bal unless you've previously defeated Mannimarco I don't think.

Reenlister wrote: »

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vanderghast wrote: »

A boat cannot fly and an airplane cannot dive into water. CHANGING the SPECS of a character is like modifying a boat into a plane, and back to a boat? I fell very, very comfortable with the actual build of my sorcerer, again, except against Mannimarco.

For PvP or other parts of the play, if I need an airplane when I am a boat, well, I won't transform me into an airplane, but team with an airplane.

I can't, with Mannimarco quest.

And with this last answer I am done.
I feel your pain, but sadly, you cannot have 'comfortably' gotten to where you are now.
Your not going to be able to bring a boat, a plane, or nuclear submarine to fight him.
You will in this case have to simply admit, you have truly gimped something.
Its not a matter of respec for this fight, its a matter of now in the Vet levels, if he brought you so much grief, then Ysgramor preserve you for what is yet to come.
Again, I am all for play how you want, and build how you want. But if you build a house without a roof, your going to get wet.

He has his very own thread on this, over 4 pages where he constantly whines about his problem ignores advice being given and now seems to want to inject himself into other threads in the same way.

AryaWythers · May 2014

KerinKor wrote: »

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kirnmalidus wrote: »

vanderghast wrote: »

I am Veteran 1, have completed the quests in Coldharbour, defeated Molag, ... but Mannimarco... I M P O S S I B L E !

Uhhh.. you can't fight Molag Bal unless you've previously defeated Mannimarco I don't think.

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Reenlister wrote: »

vanderghast wrote: »

A boat cannot fly and an airplane cannot dive into water. CHANGING the SPECS of a character is like modifying a boat into a plane, and back to a boat? I fell very, very comfortable with the actual build of my sorcerer, again, except against Mannimarco.

For PvP or other parts of the play, if I need an airplane when I am a boat, well, I won't transform me into an airplane, but team with an airplane.

I can't, with Mannimarco quest.

And with this last answer I am done.
I feel your pain, but sadly, you cannot have 'comfortably' gotten to where you are now.
Your not going to be able to bring a boat, a plane, or nuclear submarine to fight him.
You will in this case have to simply admit, you have truly gimped something.
Its not a matter of respec for this fight, its a matter of now in the Vet levels, if he brought you so much grief, then Ysgramor preserve you for what is yet to come.
Again, I am all for play how you want, and build how you want. But if you build a house without a roof, your going to get wet.

He has his very own thread on this, over 4 pages where he constantly whines about his problem ignores advice being given and now seems to want to inject himself into other threads in the same way.

Maybe this should be interpreted on how much this paying customer loves the game and wants it to succeed, it is those with little emotion over many issue that should be feared the most since they will leave the game when they have received their LOCUST fill and move on...like in every other MMO. The times have changed and companies should try to help the loyal customers first.

P.S. if you aren't from Zenimax he shouldn't be required to follow your ADVISE for proper customer support!

Even ZoS is only in charge of these forums (even though they suck at it) and can't speak for the ACTUAL company in regards of support for paying consumers...regardless of how they try to enforce their Eric Cartman's, "Respect My Authority" policies!

Trust me I just had a very long conversation with a Zeni Supervisor, and even though they brought back some faith in Zeni...that will never change my opinion of ZoS' poor business practices!

P.S. He told me not to fight and just hit "The Button" which I was against all along...but will listen to the Zeni supervisor instead of dragging issues out in any kind of personal back and forth, from now on.

Hexagar · May 2014

chokesonastraweb17_ESO wrote: »

The problem truly is not l2p. It is that Zenimax forces players into those cookie expect minmaxed builds instead of a playstyle they would like to play with themselves. And playstyle is different than "playing poorly" for those idiots who think the walkthrough way is the only way to play. There might be some people who like to play support class, and if you get forced to max DPS spec just because every enemy has suddenly 1200% more health and double damage you aren't going to be doing much support after that.

I play with a friend in 2 man team, but as my friend is a DK, and minmaxed, he can solo ahead, unlike my healer, so his interest to assist is waning, having to pull a support class behind like a drag stone just because I do OOM trying to down a single mob. And I have respecced thrice now trying to find some golden middle road in terms of DPs and heals.

I miss the days healing staff actually worked as a weapon.

I couldnt disagree more with this post.. i never read guides and in ESO i build my character however i like.. how do u expect to kill the enemy with a supporting build? If u want to be supportive then u need a brother in arms to kill through enemies while u sustain him.. if u r solo then its your mistake to only have support skills..i even swap skills to level them up in veteran areas and i have zero problems.. try to mix your abilities. Some cc some aoe and some sustain abilities.. in all seriousness veteran content is not that hard ppl crying to be.

LadyDestiny · May 2014

The casual player will get eaten up in vet zones......I agree they need to reduce cost of repair and respec. It is crazy expensive. Vet zones are doable, and I say that as in yes, you can do it but it is a lot more difficult than the lower zones. Regular npc's hit like a mac truck, I have found more often than not my block just seems to cease to exist. Interrupt still works but for some reason npc's still manage to plow right through block. hmmm. Well, in this zone you can't afford to miss vital things like this. The agro range of npc's needs to be changed, so tired of fighting a group of 3 only to have another group of 3 npc's decide they want to join in on the fun.......dead. It is really difficult trying to just explore the world and enjoy the scenery without having to stealth everwhere because you don't want to have to fight every few paces just to see what is over that hill etc. Playing a nb and WW I have enjoyed it up to this point. Even with all the bugs this class has, I have loved playing the class and it was my main. Now I am hearing that we will suck in the end, need to respec, go mage skills, use staff and be a vamp etc.......So you mean that my dual wielding, bow wielding kitty, who I might add is playing pretty much how a nb should be played, and should be the best possible way to play nb is going to be worthless in the long run. something is wrong with this picture, Why is every class needing to use Mage skills, Vamp Sorc or DK in order to be worth something? I like challenges, and I can deal with the zone with no problem. I do not like skills all of a sudden becoming useless and causing me to have to pay out the wazoo for repair bills. Fix the classes, lower repair and respec cost so I can play to win.....lol Repair is killing me, can't save money. I don't like the thought of some staff wielding nb taking me out and causing me to fork out 2k in gold to the damn cook to fix my armor.

AryaWythers · May 2014

Is it viable to have a PvP build and finish much of the content without playing one of the out balanced classes that are just required to spam one ability, to actually be equal in PvP and PvE the same without having to respec....yes talking to the unbalanced classes. I hope they get nerfed SOON!

Edit: Or a build that uses many Alliance War abilities to actually help your team with support? Aside from how all these V10 and other VR ranks feel, something really seems wrong with all the high V ranks in PvP and their God-like powers, unless they have learned something in closed beta the rest of us paying customers never knew!

Avidus · May 2014

I swear there are 2 things I keep hearing, that are complete and utter rubbish.

1. The content is too difficult.
2. You have to make cookie cutter builds.

Its rubbish, I'm VR2, levelling through VR content easily. No troubles at all.
Do I have some super build?? Heck no!

I am above all else a crafter, all I do is make things, I have spent probably 9/10 skill points in crafting.
I play combat as a sorcerer Healer.

If I can do this content, and its not too difficult for me, then either I am godly, or its not that hard.