Now that mist form is out of the way, next up - Bolt Escape!

xDonMega · May 2014

RaZaddha wrote: »

I have seen sorcs even abuse LoS, BE behind you so you waste your time turning the camera, and when you turn they have already casted it another time.

LOOL how is that an abuse of anything other than someones feelings?

RaZaddha · May 2014

xDonMega wrote: »

RaZaddha wrote: »

I have seen sorcs even abuse LoS, BE behind you so you waste your time turning the camera, and when you turn they have already casted it another time.

LOOL how is that an abuse of anything other than someones feelings?

Ok, bad wording, I looked at the dictionary and in english abuse is a more phisical thing, english isn't my native language. I guess just switch "abuse" for "use".

Raggok · May 2014

So you didnt get you 10 alliance points?

I dont see how that skill won the fight. Can you post another?

Ir's not about him winning the fight. It's about tryhard clowns like yourself playing not to lose. When only one class can escape situations like that, eventually every playing-not-to-lose tryhard clown will end up playing that class and then you have a game not worth playing anymore.

gunslinger3440 · May 2014

Yes, the Sorc BE is OP for 2 reasons.
1. Sorc can runaway anytime.
Sorc can BE anytime after starting combat, after using a few skills and a single target ultimate. Hitting him with stun does not help because as a magica based DPS he will have stamina to break cc and BE away the horizon.
He will replenish his magica with dark conversion after blinking a few times,and blinking a few times is really enough, because his enemy will be in combat unable to ride a horse. After which he can repeat attacking forever.
Is moving fast OP, no.
Is attacking someone and being able to run away anytime while your opponent is in the combat status therefore unable to ride a horse, and being able to outrun opponents using retreating maneuver OP, yes it is.

2. There is no way to counter a BE.
ATM, there is no counter to a BE.
If there was a counter to this, even one that takes a whole slot, it wouldn't be OP in a real sense. Currently there is no counter to stop a Sorc from BEing away from combat.
Stun does not work.
Root does not work.
Nothing can stop a Sorc from BEing away from combat.

Origin · May 2014

Hit and run tactics. Viable warfare strategy.

Affrayer · May 2014

xhrit · May 2014

Affrayer wrote: »

Except if they use immovable. Then they are immune to CC and have more armor and spell resistance than anybody in heavy armor.

How exactly is that 'squishy'?

LadyChaos · May 2014

xhrit wrote: »

Affrayer wrote: »

Except if they use immovable. Then they are immune to CC and have more armor and spell resistance than anybody in heavy armor.

How exactly is that 'squishy'?

maybe for the 1% of light armor that spec this... and even they have their trades, but most of us do not. But by this only those 7Piece light armor + imbolize are on the OP list?? that's a pretty elite crew. I know 2 off top of head I've met in passing since since pre-launch. You NEED 7 piece light to have the mag power to use bolt to the level that annoys you guys to clarify.

beravinprb19_ESO · May 2014

LadyChaos wrote: »

xhrit wrote: »

Affrayer wrote: »

Except if they use immovable. Then they are immune to CC and have more armor and spell resistance than anybody in heavy armor.

How exactly is that 'squishy'?

maybe for the 1% of light armor that spec this... and even they have their trades, but most of us do not. But by this only those 7Piece light armor + imbolize are on the OP list?? that's a pretty elite crew. I know 2 off top of head I've met in passing since since pre-launch. You NEED 7 piece light to have the mag power to use bolt to the level that annoys you guys to clarify.

You don't need to wear any heavy armour pieces to use Immovable. If you want to use Immovable, the only thing you need to sacrifice for it is 1 out of 10 ability slots.

LadyChaos · May 2014

beravinprb19_ESO wrote: »

LadyChaos wrote: »

xhrit wrote: »

Affrayer wrote: »

Except if they use immovable. Then they are immune to CC and have more armor and spell resistance than anybody in heavy armor.

How exactly is that 'squishy'?

maybe for the 1% of light armor that spec this... and even they have their trades, but most of us do not. But by this only those 7Piece light armor + imbolize are on the OP list?? that's a pretty elite crew. I know 2 off top of head I've met in passing since since pre-launch. You NEED 7 piece light to have the mag power to use bolt to the level that annoys you guys to clarify.

You don't need to wear any heavy armour pieces to use Immovable.

I'm aware ty for clarification if I was not...
#1 you must level heavy armor for it... we dont wear heavy, even if we wanted to just to get the spell it's the only reason to do so
#2 the point was a very small amount of us full light armor users do this ... it's not our bag baby?

can propose theory crafted builds forever but if u get 5 slots there's a high priority for that real estate.. IMO immobilize only keeps me from being CCsd if I was able to forecast it happening. Not worth the slot on my bar. I can see if for break ins, would definitely help me survive the break in, but I have multiple roles based on mobility and Spike damage, and imobilize does not win over lightning form, bolts, AoE, maglight, mage fury (finisher). For some it might, not for me.

hamon · May 2014

Terminus wrote: »

Let's just make it teleport people backwards!
Yes, that will work!

But seriously, the more people use Bolt Escape, the less recovery they have for the next few seconds and the less magicka they have to defend themselves.

Every class has an ability that allows them to jump or travel large distances in a short time, or even pull their enemies to them.

really? where is my templar one then? i had to go vampire just for mist form to enjoy that luxury and now its been nerfed to hell.

NordJitsu · May 2014

Affrayer wrote: »

Everyone can go home now.

You have won the thread.

NordJitsu · May 2014

beravinprb19_ESO wrote: »

LadyChaos wrote: »

xhrit wrote: »

Affrayer wrote: »

Except if they use immovable. Then they are immune to CC and have more armor and spell resistance than anybody in heavy armor.

How exactly is that 'squishy'?

maybe for the 1% of light armor that spec this... and even they have their trades, but most of us do not. But by this only those 7Piece light armor + imbolize are on the OP list?? that's a pretty elite crew. I know 2 off top of head I've met in passing since since pre-launch. You NEED 7 piece light to have the mag power to use bolt to the level that annoys you guys to clarify.

You don't need to wear any heavy armour pieces to use Immovable. If you want to use Immovable, the only thing you need to sacrifice for it is 1 out of 10 ability slots.

In order to use Immovable, they have to give up a skill slot. Immovable isn't worth it for most people, since the cost is that same as CC break and it gives you the same duration of Immunity (more or less.)

And if someone is giving up 2/5 slots (40% of their skills) dedicated to running away from fights, they darn well better be really good at running away from fights. Just like someone who slots a lot of damage skills should be good at damage. A person who slots a lot of heals should be good at healing.

And regardless, even without CC, YOU CAN STILL CATCH THEM. Bow Roll Dodge. Path of Darkness. Steed Stone. Well Fitted Trait. Roll an Orc. Potion to Increase Run Speed. Ect. ect.

There's lots of speed options in the game to move fast. Most of them aren't class based. A few of them are.

All of them are balanced.

Tintinabula · May 2014

I dont expect a mage to stand still for every fight but to be able to train a group halfway across the map is a little ridiculous..1st cause he can...and second cause the group follows.
Only trick Ive seen to catching a mage is the drain essence ability morphed to stun them..

Bipolo · May 2014

So yeah...

Bolt Escape + Glass canon build = trolling

ofc you will *** people off ^^

/edit: forgot to mention its possible to escape while rooted (dont even have to dodge roll, lol)

Dont cry for nerf's, but much rather balance... Everything needs a counter, and atm Gap Closer>CC>Stamina Pot>Repeat is not the balance people are looking for.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FPi5eYSmfU

ForTheRealm · May 2014

Terminus wrote: »

Let's just make it teleport people backwards!
Yes, that will work!

But seriously, the more people use Bolt Escape, the less recovery they have for the next few seconds and the less magicka they have to defend themselves.

Every class has an ability that allows them to jump or travel large distances in a short time, or even pull their enemies to them.

The only skill that was available to every class and could be seen as a Bolt Escape counter was Vampire's Elusive Mist... but it was before the speed nerf... so now I don't see any others...

Niffo · May 2014

Bipolo wrote: »

So yeah...

Bolt Escape + Glass canon build = trolling

ofc you will *** people off ^^

/edit: forgot to mention its possible to escape while rooted (dont even have to dodge roll, lol)

Dont cry for nerf's, but much rather balance... Everything needs a counter, and atm Gap Closer>CC>Stamina Pot>Repeat is not the balance people are looking for.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FPi5eYSmfU

It doesn't even look like the debuff to magicka recovery after bolting is doing anything to regen.

LadyChaos · May 2014

Bipolo wrote: »

So yeah...

Bolt Escape + Glass canon build = trolling

ofc you will *** people off ^^

/edit: forgot to mention its possible to escape while rooted (dont even have to dodge roll, lol)

Dont cry for nerf's, but much rather balance... Everything needs a counter, and atm Gap Closer>CC>Stamina Pot>Repeat is not the balance people are looking for.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FPi5eYSmfU

The first time he was rooted he did dodge roll out of talons, just to still be taloned.

He goes through mag potions like crazy in the video.=, OOM about entire time until he pops new pot and gets enough STA to refresh mag pool. He also using a bow, to kill when he's OOM because he bolted.

None of the guys are even /blocking his CC just running at him with sword clenched angrily. In the first fight at least, he bolts only one bolt distance away every time... kiting. He is in range of anything else ranged, hes just keeping the melee at his bow distance. The melee guy he was fighting didn't bring anything ranged? If the sorcerer was able to spam crystal on him (that the guy didn't bother to block ever), if he wasn't in range of all other gap closers, ranged damage etc...

Most of the opponents in the video are under leveled by a bit, and not a match for a higher level and skilled player who knows how to manage their STA,Mag and distance checks vs melee.

I haven't watched any of the next location fights yet. I will later when more time, but that's my input on the first location fights.

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO · May 2014

beravinprb19_ESO wrote: »

My build looks like this... Stampede, Obsidian Shard, Unstable Flame, Coagulating Blood, Burning Talons, Corrosive Armour. For those who are not familiar with the morphs, you can read about them on this website: http://eldersouls.com/elder-scrolls-online/skills

1. Stampede. Firstly, this requires a target. Second, it has a travel time. Third, and more importantly, Sorcerers can still bolt out of the resulting immobilize.

2. Obsidian Shard. Firstly, it is a projectile. Second, it can be counter by stun breaking, blocking, or Immovable. Third, bolt moves considerably faster than said projectile.

3. Burning Talons. This is one of the most powerful abilities I have. It can be countered by bolt itself, since you continue bolting regardless of being immobilized.

My build is designed to lock down a single target, prevent them from escaping, and to kill them. Sorcerers laugh at my build because stuns alone are not enough to kill a player, and they can simply bolt out of two abilities that I use specifically to keep them in range.

Yes, all your points are valid. Now let me list my points as a sorc player:

1. You can spam stampede as much as i can spam bolt escape. I died countless times to charge spamming people while trying to bolt away.

2. Bolt escape is one of the morphs that has a chance to absorb projectiles, streak has no chance whatsoever to do that. Lets ignore that for a second. I died countless times using bolt escape to projectiles that simply ignored the blue ball i left behind, more often then not. Your "what if it actualy worked like that" argument is invalid.

3. If i get burning talons up i have 2 options, break out of cc (bye bye stamina) or bolt a few meters away (bye bye magika). If i delay the escape even in the slightest i get stomped into the ground, i simply do not have any of the dk's survivability. As you said, this is your strongest abilities and incapacitates/melts everyone stupid enough not move away from you.

As your build is designed to melt everyone in melee range, my build is designed to kite (for the sake of the argument as my build is slight different ingame). A dk cant do what a sorc can and viceversa. There are plenty of counters for bolt escape if you're ready to "sacrifice" a bit of your offensive/defensive power for functionality. Further more in an organized group you can assign designated chasers. You cant expect to be best at everything and noone else be able to counter your build...where's the fun in that? (see vamps ult reduction/bat swarm spam for refference)

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO · May 2014

gunslinger3440 wrote: »

Yes, the Sorc BE is OP for 2 reasons.
1. Sorc can runaway anytime.
Sorc can BE anytime after starting combat, after using a few skills and a single target ultimate. Hitting him with stun does not help because as a magica based DPS he will have stamina to break cc and BE away the horizon.
He will replenish his magica with dark conversion after blinking a few times,and blinking a few times is really enough, because his enemy will be in combat unable to ride a horse. After which he can repeat attacking forever.
Is moving fast OP, no.
Is attacking someone and being able to run away anytime while your opponent is in the combat status therefore unable to ride a horse, and being able to outrun opponents using retreating maneuver OP, yes it is.

2. There is no way to counter a BE.
ATM, there is no counter to a BE.
If there was a counter to this, even one that takes a whole slot, it wouldn't be OP in a real sense. Currently there is no counter to stop a Sorc from BEing away from combat.
Stun does not work.
Root does not work.
Nothing can stop a Sorc from BEing away from combat.

Everyone can break out of cc not just sorcs, what is your point? A magika build will be using it alot less often then a stamina build since it costs an arm and a leg and you need that stamina to block/roll/etc, further more the stamina builds can wear sets and have passives greatly reducing the stamina consumption on cc break/sprinting/etc. You mentioned dark conversion, are you aware that, as the name states, converts stamina into magika/hps? Now if you used your stamina to break away how would you convert it? Your point is invalid.

Last time i checked stun works and cc works, bolt doesnt give you any immunity to aither, you might have been hitting a target with immovable and retreating manuver up (bolt escape also removes retreating manuver as its considered an atack). Ohh, both the above mentioned skills have a very high stamina cost thus very sittuational for a magika build. Your point is invalid.

Kolache · May 2014

Bipolo wrote: »

youtubelolz

It cracks me up that people want to showcase themselves using 4 abilities and a toggle.

The guy is using 3 magicka damage abilities and an teleport. What hard/soft CCs does he have to slot? (oh right lol shards!) What anti-CC or runspeed buffs does he have? How many times does he have to swap, in combat, to adapt to the variety of builds he faces? Ooh he had to use magelight once! I'm glad dark exchange makes it possible for him to reengage quicker--he really doesn't even need it.

His abilities are simply:
Direct damage
Bolt Escape.

Tell me, exactly how hard do you think someone should have to customize/tailor their character to counter this simple of a strategy? Mash nukes, teleport, mash nukes, teleport. Hell you could macro the the curse. If only you could find a way to macro the execute you'd be able to get away with playing with 2 whole buttons instead of 3.

Kolache · May 2014

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO wrote: »

Everyone can break out of cc not just sorcs, what is your point? A magika build will be using it alot less often then a stamina build since it costs an arm and a leg and you need that stamina to block/roll/etc, further more the stamina builds can wear sets and have passives greatly reducing the stamina consumption on cc break/sprinting/etc. You mentioned dark conversion, are you aware that, as the name states, converts stamina into magika/hps? Now if you used your stamina to break away how would you convert it? Your point is invalid.

You're trying to say that a magicka build with no stamina abilities is going to be more strapped for stamina than a stamina build with bars full of stamina abilities? Is this assuming the latter is just standing there not doing anything?

limeli8 · May 2014

if you think that bolt escape is OP

Kaskako · May 2014

"I build my character as a glass cannon with no defensive abilities, so I need my op 1 button escape which is more powerful than any other escape to be viable"

That is basically what people defending be are saying? Great.

Yet having more survivability than dunno, any other build in game is not unbalanced? Ok.

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO · May 2014

Kolache wrote: »

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO wrote: »

Everyone can break out of cc not just sorcs, what is your point? A magika build will be using it alot less often then a stamina build since it costs an arm and a leg and you need that stamina to block/roll/etc, further more the stamina builds can wear sets and have passives greatly reducing the stamina consumption on cc break/sprinting/etc. You mentioned dark conversion, are you aware that, as the name states, converts stamina into magika/hps? Now if you used your stamina to break away how would you convert it? Your point is invalid.

You're trying to say that a magicka build with no stamina abilities is going to be more strapped for stamina than a stamina build with bars full of stamina abilities? Is this assuming the latter is just standing there not doing anything?

A magika build with NO stamina abilities? CC break, blocking, dark exchange, sprinting, dodgerolling...uhm...yes, no stamina abilities at all..but generaly yes, this is what i am saying. A stamina build has plenty of stamina regen/reduction while a magika build doese not, they also have stamina cost reducers and are traited/setted towards stamina. If i break in the middle of a fight as a magika build and/or block someone it will take ages before i get that stamina back with incombat regen. I played enough with both to know for a fact im more stamina starved as a pure magika build then as a stamina/magika hybrid.

Further more a dk gets 5% stamina return for every skill they cast from a whole skill tree, not that im bashing the dk for it or anything.

Blocking/cc is by far less painful for a stamina build then for someone geared towards magika.

EDIT: Now that i think of it the playstile is quite different for the 2 builds i mentioned above so not that relevant but the fact stands that cc preventing/resisting abilities are all stamina based and someone with a high stamina regen/cost reduction will have an easier time using them.

prana33b14_ESO · May 2014

xhrit wrote: »

Except if they use immovable. Then they are immune to CC and have more armor and spell resistance than anybody in heavy armor.

How exactly is that 'squishy'?

Because a medium or heavy armor player using immovable is even tankier?! Durrrrrrrrr

"Hey guise, let me make a totally invalid comparison about a sorcerer using a heavy armor skill vs. a heavy armor user NOT using the same skill. I drool on my keyboard."

chris.f.price_ESO · May 2014

TLDR; Bolt escape isn't OP because of the ability it self. Rather a combination of armor sets, potions, play style, and build makes it a rather strong skill.

These bolt escape threads on the forums make me laugh. The kind of logic that another class has a skill that I don't have so either I should have it or they should not have it kills games. Most of the people on the forums complaining probably played WoW at some point or have only played WoW, so I will use that example. WoW back in Vanilla actually had classes that had unique abilities that differentiated the class from one another. Each class fit into a rock paper scissors mentality, where rock generally beat scissors and etc. Then people started complaining about balance and this class can do this and my class can't so nerf this blah blah blah. Now you just have a game made for the least common denominator. Yeah it has a large player base, but the game is comically dumbed down and lacks any skill factor or custom character building.

ESO brings back rock paper scissors and it brings back custom character builds that can be really strong. Those strong builds aren't OP. They are just the product of work, game knowledge, and skill. OP is being able to one shot bosses. Does anyone remember the bugs in WoW where you charge up a paladin skill (or was it a warrior skill) to one shot raid bosses? That was OP. Being able to kite people is not OP. Hunters and frost mages did this in WoW it is a play style. If you die to a sorc who is kiting you you have two choices. Stop chasing him or stop running solo and stay with a group. Stop saying nerf this skill because I haven't figured a way to counter it. Yes it is counterable. I play a sorc. I dont use this skill to kill people. I use it to skirmish with groups getting people to chase me as they separate from the group then picking them off from ranged. Want to know how much mana I have after this? Not alot. Maybe enough for another 2-3 bolts. Then I stealth and regen my stats. BTW the blue ball doesn't prevent charges chains ranged knock downs etc. You know what does? Me blocking while I am bolting away. You want to know how a sorc can bolt and still have mana to kill you? Pots, warlock set bonus, Absorb Magika the LA ability.

trooperrabbit_ESO · May 2014

jobo11b16_ESO wrote: »

eliisra wrote: »

Multiple people aren't going to die simultaneously from Bolt Escape.
They aren't gaining loads of kills and Alliance points, by using it. One or two guys always manages to flee the fighting ground, so what? That's hardly going to affect the map or anything else that matters.

Think this mostly boils down to peoples ego's, not killing someone infuriates them. They think surviving is the same as winning, for some reason. I don't even understand this crazy urge where people must run after the only survivor forever. Go be useful instead?

Anyway, I don't mind if the increase the cost of Bolt Escape. I think you should be able to use it once or twice at a very high cost, to gain some distance in combat. That's what it's there for. Not blinking half the map indefinitely.

But there is still no actual reward for surviving and running around all by yourself in the wilderness of of Cyrodiil. You gain nothing but leg work.

The issue is that only one class has the ability to escape from fights, there is no combination of class, non-class, or weapon abilities that can mimic or even come close to what a Sorcerer can do with just slotting Bolt Escape. Bolt Escape needs a target requirement and that is all, you teleport 15 meters back from your target it still gets you out of the way of trouble and lets you maintain range without being a get out of jail free card that only one class has. And giving every class an escape like that is not at all the answer to the problem that just means you have to slot that ability to have any chance.

Boo hoo, not every class can do everything every other class can?! It's almost like... they weren't designed that way or something ;*(

dahl.lucas_ESO · May 2014

Bolt escape is never a 100% thing. Sorcs die in 2 to 3 hits and you guys think it's unfair that they can create distance if out planned from the player trying to kill them? Thanks for the entertainment.

Tintinabula · May 2014

and...explain again how elusive mist was any different?