Now that mist form is out of the way, next up - Bolt Escape!

Kolache

LadyChaos wrote: »

aside from the fact that some of those are not class abilities... well tbh hard take your point of view serious TBH, but I'm trying. So by this... equation... if there is a non class ability that does it then it's "fair" ... we've already given you sooo many examples of what is just as reliable and those that are even better.

If bolt escape was in the mages guild then people wouldn't be complaining about class balance. The examples of what is "just as reliable" are followed by examples of what effectively counters them, which again is why the forums/zone chat hasn't been lit up with people complaining about methods of escaping other than BE and the recently nerfed mist form.

kitchenguy65_ESO

jobo11b16_ESO wrote: »

Everything Nordjitsu posted is absolute nonsense, Sorcerers can put 1 ability on their bar and escape from any fight, all other classes have to devote not only their armour/armour traits, mundus stone, and multiple ability slots to not even guarantee they can take the Sorcerer out.

Every single Sorcerer defending Bolt Escape is arguing from emotion, and not with logic or reason.

Actually, to be able to use bolt escape numerous times in a row like what you're complaining about, you do have to devote your armor/armor traits, and mundus stone for spell reduction. So yeah, it is a logical argument.

Nijjion

I agree sorcs blink is going to be hard to change/nerf. Though it needs to be done so they cannot spam it 10/12 times then do it another 10/12 times if they use DE for 3 seconds.

Why should sorcs be the only class to be able to get away from technically any fight they get caught into? Other games would have stealth as another mechanic as a get away or jumps or charges (without targets).

Maybe buff skills like shield charge to work without targets?

Kolache

kitchenguy65_ESO wrote: »

Actually, to be able to use bolt escape numerous times in a row like what you're complaining about, you do have to devote your armor/armor traits, and mundus stone for spell reduction. So yeah, it is a logical argument.

So what you need magicka and cost reduction? Yeah that really gimps a lot of builds; hardly anybody uses that combo.

LadyChaos

@jobo11b16_ESO

Sorcerers put 1 ability on their bar to have mobility and escape, while every other class has to sacrifice their build and gear to do what Sorcerers can with just 1 ability.

THAT is the flaw in the entire nerf bolt bandwagon. It doesn't matter when players hand feed you options, show videos of how it's countered, and lay out math of trades ... you repeat the mantra above.

It is wrong, and when you ask how... the answer is read every single thread on the nerf bolt bandwagon, but skip all the ones that are parroting this line. Everyone who says this has no idea of the mechanics or synergies needed to use the skill to the level that is "irritating" you.

Kolache

LadyChaos wrote: »

THAT is the flaw in the entire nerf bolt bandwagon. It doesn't matter when players hand feed you options, show videos of how it's countered, and lay out math of trades ... you repeat the mantra above.

Do you have video(s) of BE getting countered that don't involve an out of combat mount? Genuinely curious.

NordJitsu

@jobo11b16_ESO‌

I actually mentioned the self healing (and why they're poor) in my next post.

And you misunderstand. You do not need all of those options to equal Bolt Escape. All of those together would far surpass it. You just need to pick a few of them, most of which are beneficial for a lot more than just running away (Bow and Medium for example.)

Its not going to get nerfed. The people calling for it are universally bad players. I don't mean that to be offensive, but its true. None of the calls for a nerf to the skill have been by people I recognize in the community as being competent PvP'ers, because those people are too busy countering the skill in game.

This really is a learn to play issue, as frustrating as that must be for you. I've tried to politely explain to you how to counter the skill or achieve the same thing in other ways. Instead of trying to argue with me and "win the forums" you should just get in game and test some of that. Trust me, it works.

Bolt Escape will not be nerfed. It just got buffed. They realized that it was under performing for the high cost and removed the reduced magicka regen. This was needed to make it a viable combat skill (for those who use the Streak morph.)

Niffo

LadyChaos wrote: »

only one class has: pets, in combat stealth, chain pull, charge forward etc. Just because 1 class has it doesn't mean it needs nerf. THIS is how class variation happens. Otherwise they would all be the same and bland. IF you want an escape of this type, even though NB has something similar, and mist > bolt... then roll a sorcerer and give up what your class has for specialty.

Out of everything you listed only 1 of them is locked to a single cast and that is Sorcerer pets which are balanced because they have to be on both bars and reducing max magicka. There are potions that give stealth. Silver Bolts can be morphed to pull, although it is limited in targets it has a longer range is stamina based and has a chance to nearly one shot the targets it works on. Everyone can equip a two handed weapon or a one handed weapon and get access to charge abilities. Nothing you and Nord list are actually unique options, Templars have no specialty, anyone can put a Resto staff on and heal as good if not better since all the other classes have weapon damage buffs that make Resto heals stronger.

Keep trying to make it seem like I want homoginized classes though, because you both just show you have no idea what you're talking about.

rophez_ESO

I don't mind that sorcs get this ability to escape. I DO mind that many of them use the ability offensively - to chase people, to blink away from a melee then do a crit charge with a two-hander over and over, to blink away and nuke, etc.

An easy fix, in my opinion is to not allow any offensive action by the caster for 5-10 seconds after the spell has been cast. They can keep blinking away, or start running, but not attack or cast other spells for that time.

Kolache

rophez_ESO wrote: »

I DO mind that many of them use the ability offensively - to chase people, to blink away from a melee then do a crit charge with a two-hander over and over. . .

I actually do that on my melee/stamina sorc. It's a lot of fun since you can disorient by bolting through them to boot. Even without any/much magicka related gear you can squeeze out 4 bolts, and being drained of magicka for a few seconds isn't really of much consequence for a stamina build.

Niffo

rophez_ESO wrote: »

I don't mind that sorcs get this ability to escape. I DO mind that many of them use the ability offensively - to chase people, to blink away from a melee then do a crit charge with a two-hander over and over, to blink away and nuke, etc.

An easy fix, in my opinion is to not allow any offensive action by the caster for 5-10 seconds after the spell has been cast. They can keep blinking away, or start running, but not attack or cast other spells for that time.

Doesn't really need that kindof a nerf, it just needs a target requirement like all of the other gap closer/creator abilities and it will be balanced.

LadyChaos

rophez_ESO wrote: »

I don't mind that sorcs get this ability to escape. I DO mind that many of them use the ability offensively - to chase people, to blink away from a melee then do a crit charge with a two-hander over and over, to blink away and nuke, etc.

An easy fix, in my opinion is to not allow any offensive action by the caster for 5-10 seconds after the spell has been cast. They can keep blinking away, or start running, but not attack or cast other spells for that time.

Bolt has an offensive morph. It does damage to where you land, as opposed to block projectiles for a short period of time like the defensive morph. I prefer this one but it is not as popular as the defensive version.

Syndy

Antonie wrote: »

I am using the stun portion of bolt escape to join the fray in melee range and to escape out of it

Oh and other classes do have escaping tools as well. Just thinking of a nightblade using that one skill to walk around unseen which can be reused as much as you like untill you have no resource left.

I heard Magelight lets you see invisible enemies... Just saying...

Niffo

f0rgiv3n27b14_ESO wrote: »

Antonie wrote: »

I am using the stun portion of bolt escape to join the fray in melee range and to escape out of it

Oh and other classes do have escaping tools as well. Just thinking of a nightblade using that one skill to walk around unseen which can be reused as much as you like untill you have no resource left.

I heard Magelight lets you see invisible enemies... Just saying...

In a 12 meter radius on top of either giving you a significant increase in crit chance or reduction to sneak attack damage. It seems like everything people list that are equal to or better than Bolt Escape have pretty hard counters to them.

Syndy

jobo11b16_ESO wrote: »

f0rgiv3n27b14_ESO wrote: »

Antonie wrote: »

I am using the stun portion of bolt escape to join the fray in melee range and to escape out of it

Oh and other classes do have escaping tools as well. Just thinking of a nightblade using that one skill to walk around unseen which can be reused as much as you like untill you have no resource left.

I heard Magelight lets you see invisible enemies... Just saying...

In a 12 meter radius on top of either giving you a significant increase in crit chance or reduction to sneak attack damage. It seems like everything people list that are equal to or better than Bolt Escape have pretty hard counters to them.

They do indeed!

Please refer me to the nerf threads for those abilities.... O wait...

NordJitsu

I can't decide if its funny or sad. You guys don't want to learn, you want to cry.

Bolt Escape is a perfectly balanced ability. In fact, it needed some love, which is why it got buffed.

There are superior escape mechanisms in the game that you should be more worried about. All those Nightblades escaping you using Dark Cloak. You don't even know they were ever there.

Niffo

NordJitsu wrote: »

I can't decide if its funny or sad. You guys don't want to learn, you want to cry.

Bolt Escape is a perfectly balanced ability. In fact, it needed some love, which is why it got buffed.

There are superior escape mechanisms in the game that you should be more worried about. All those Nightblades escaping you using Dark Cloak. You don't even know they were ever there.

What's sad is the comparisons you're making to abilities that have hard counters to them and then ignoring that there is nothing like that for Bolt Escape. You can keep thinking that you're right though, if that makes you feel better. They revert one nerf to apply a better one instead. Hopefully you keep posting, your responses get more enjoyable each time.

Syndy

NordJitsu wrote: »

I can't decide if its funny or sad. You guys don't want to learn, you want to cry.

Bolt Escape is a perfectly balanced ability. In fact, it needed some love, which is why it got buffed.

There are superior escape mechanisms in the game that you should be more worried about. All those Nightblades escaping you using Dark Cloak. You don't even know they were ever there.

Please Refer to this link to handle your NB problem

Kaskako

The way bolt escape works is just stupid. There really is no way people can defend against this fact. Either increase the cost with each use or something, its ridiculous that after using it infinitely sorcerers are still able to fight normally like nothing happened, while those that attempt to chase them end up out of stamina, magicka or both.

drwoody44b14_ESO

Kaskako wrote: »

The way bolt escape works is just stupid. There really is no way people can defend against this fact. Either increase the cost with each use or something, its ridiculous that after using it infinitely sorcerers are still able to fight normally like nothing happened, while those that attempt to chase them end up out of stamina, magicka or both.

I can cast Bolt escape 4, maybe 5 times before my mana reserves are depleted. This is with a half HP/Mana build without Warlock set bonus.

Warlock set doubles this. Soooo.....nerf Warlock set bonus?

Nerf Bolt escape, and i'll only switch to my lesser mana intensive aoe root/snare, which can be spammed more than bolt escape can.

Then you'll cry about that.

Syndy

drwoody44b14_ESO wrote: »

Nerf Bolt escape, and i'll only switch to my lesser mana intensive aoe root/snare, which can be spammed more than bolt escape can.

Then you'll cry about that.

No because if you are casting that, then you are in range for gap closers and other attacks, Root is not a get out of jail free card. (Granted w/o an immunity to it atm, it kinda is, but at least you aren't half way across the map in 3 seconds).

Niffo

drwoody44b14_ESO wrote: »

Kaskako wrote: »

The way bolt escape works is just stupid. There really is no way people can defend against this fact. Either increase the cost with each use or something, its ridiculous that after using it infinitely sorcerers are still able to fight normally like nothing happened, while those that attempt to chase them end up out of stamina, magicka or both.

I can cast Bolt escape 4, maybe 5 times before my mana reserves are depleted. This is with a half HP/Mana build without Warlock set bonus.

Warlock set doubles this. Soooo.....nerf Warlock set bonus?

Nerf Bolt escape, and i'll only switch to my lesser mana intensive aoe root/snare, which can be spammed more than bolt escape can.

Then you'll cry about that.

Only until they put an immunity on immobilize, like they should have when they added it for CC.

drwoody44b14_ESO

f0rgiv3n27b14_ESO wrote: »

drwoody44b14_ESO wrote: »

Nerf Bolt escape, and i'll only switch to my lesser mana intensive aoe root/snare, which can be spammed more than bolt escape can.

Then you'll cry about that.

No because if you are casting that, then you are in range for gap closers and other attacks, Root is not a get out of jail free card. (Granted w/o an immunity to it atm, it kinda is, but at least you aren't half way across the map in 3 seconds).

If you want to theory craft

Bolt Escape, I'm not doing anything.

Spamming my almost manaless aoe root, I'm also attacking you and probably kiting you around.

I already use my aoe root to bomb 30 people with my 6 person group. Assuming PvP continues to head in the direction its going, it'll be dead in a few months anyways. But this is a story for another day..

dahl.lucas_ESO

It's very difficult to take any of you guys serious that want to nurf bolt escape when all you is say no to everything and severely over exaggerate everything. I could counter these so call "arguments" but it already has been in this post and of course, you will continue to ignore and exaggerate some more. That's just fine. Continue to not learn how to counter that ability. I really don't mind.

NordJitsu

L2P is really all there is left to say at this point.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lrz4xExzNRY&feature=youtu.be

I'm going to get a guildie to go with me and teach you guys some of the counters in a video though. You're welcome in advance.

Kolache

NordJitsu wrote: »

I'm going to get a guildie to go with me and teach you guys some of the counters in a video though. You're welcome in advance.

Please do, and please note that if the premise of your video is also riding a mount out of combat after a sorc that has spent all their resources running away from a zerg that nobody cares.

ChairGraveyard

LadyChaos wrote: »

Arreyanne wrote: »

If Mist was OP then Bolt escape has to be and was the most broken abiility in the game.

Instant Ha Ha You cant kill me button

Mist stacks with other run speeds. They changed it to match the sorcerer line run speed (before it stacks). Because IMO sorcerers are supposed to be top speed, and an open non-class line wasn't meant to be faster than us. And I still cant keep up with mist, no one can when it's stacked.

AND if YOU can't kill a bolt, doesn't mean it's a win. For every bolt that gets away 10 died. You just never consider the ones who died. How about that it takes an ultimate to stop a DK, and only takes 1-2 any stun to kill a sorcerer...

If you put The Steed mundus stone on, Mist Form is now slower than running.

The only people that think Mist Form was OP are newbs that don't know bash exists.

Niffo

NordJitsu wrote: »

L2P is really all there is left to say at this point.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lrz4xExzNRY&feature=youtu.be

I'm going to get a guildie to go with me and teach you guys some of the counters in a video though. You're welcome in advance.

To counter 1 class ability you need someone on a high speed horse WITH Retreating Maneuvers and the Sorcerer has have been chased by an entire zerg, if that is proof that Bolt Escape is balanced, you don't know what balance means. Absolutely absurd, keep posting Nord, every time you do you get more and more ridiculous.

drwoody44b14_ESO

jobo11b16_ESO wrote: »

NordJitsu wrote: »

L2P is really all there is left to say at this point.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lrz4xExzNRY&feature=youtu.be

I'm going to get a guildie to go with me and teach you guys some of the counters in a video though. You're welcome in advance.

To counter 1 class ability you need someone on a high speed horse WITH Retreating Maneuvers and the Sorcerer has have been chased by an entire zerg, if that is proof that Bolt Escape is balanced, you don't know what balance means. Absolutely absurd, keep posting Nord, every time you do you get more and more ridiculous.

We're talking about combat situations here. Not someone trying to avoid a fight.

You going to cry about fast horses and stealthers too?

Nightscar

OP how about we just nerf all classes into dust..
Then give you a big red button on your screen to "kill all"
..would that work?

My suggestion ..
ST*U and L2P
or leave
k?
thx
bye!