Now that mist form is out of the way, next up - Bolt Escape!

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO

Tintinabula wrote: »

If ZOS stays TRUTHFUL to mist forms description you'll no longer be able to root them while theyre in mist form...currently poison mist form in pvp is crap.

Unfortunately soft cc is the only counter you can deploy atm vs a mist spamming vampire.

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

Every ability should have it's part of weakness so it can be exploited with another ability. At this moment, nothing can stop a sorcerer from spamming his Bolt Escape.

A sorcerer can engage at range and deal a huge pike of damage, then run away in case something went wrong.

In short, they have their cake and eat it too.

If a sorc is chipping your health away from max range while you do nothing then whine about cakes...instead you should be creative, use the terrain in your advantage, use your horse, stack sprinting with move increase buffs, plenty of faster ways of moving around then bolting sorc. Be reasonable with what you are asking, would you find it fair if you could kill any sorc dumb enough to nuke you from max range? You complain about bolt escape being to powerful, even as a sorc with bolt escape i am unable to catch up and kill someone who is nuking me from 28 meters, there is not enough magika to doing all those gap closer skills and keeping myself alive.

Trust me, even as one of them dreadful sorcs you will not spam bolt escape in the enemy direction from max range unless you want a free teleport

EDIT: there is a reason all targeted gap closers dont have max range, the reason is to give the kiter a chance to escape and not make it 100%.

2nd EDIT: Ohh, i assumed you're a melee. In case you're a ranged dps there's also the option of ccing/nuking the sorc, they are rather squishy if specced for bolt escape, keep the preasure though, they have dark exchange and if they are smart enough to use terrain to their advantage they can gain the upper hand if you spam yourself dry.

Niffo

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO wrote: »

Interesting build. Its not a melee build tho, its just a kiting build withouth bolt escape. Very nice use of magnum shot to make up for the lack of mobility, thats something everyone should take note off, im definatly gonna play around with the synergies in your build and see how much fun i can pull out of it

Melee Sorcerer Build

Nijjion

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO wrote: »

snip

Sorcs can use the terrain better with bolt escape as they can use a rock to get los and then you have no way to catch up with targeted skills.

You know you can't mount up in combat right? And it's pretty bugged so you can't even mount up for about 1-2 minutes even if you are out of it.

Have yet to see even an orc wearing medium armor and manuver user player catch up to a competent geared blinking sorc... but it sounds doable... probably is that sorcs can continuously stun you with bolt escape which is the cherry on top of OPness with the skill.

Enough magicka for 10-11 bolt escapes seems quite a lot of uses for a skill like that imo. 3-4 casts gets you really far away from a fight or even to a fight to leave yourself enough magicka to compete.

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO

Nijjion wrote: »

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO wrote: »

snip

Sorcs can use the terrain better with bolt escape as they can use a rock to get los and then you have no way to catch up with targeted skills.

You know you can't mount up in combat right? And it's pretty bugged so you can't even mount up for about 1-2 minutes even if you are out of it.

Have yet to see even an orc wearing medium armor and manuver user player catch up to a competent geared blinking sorc... but it sounds doable... probably is that sorcs can continuously stun you with bolt escape which is the cherry on top of OPness with the skill.

Enough magicka for 10-11 bolt escapes seems quite a lot of uses for a skill like that imo. 3-4 casts gets you really far away from a fight or even to a fight to leave yourself enough magicka to compete.

As was mentioned before, 10-11 casts for a magica reduction stacking sorc, a sorc withouth cost reduction gear (jewels + sets) will run out of magika in notime. Its preatty irelevant though, if u let a sorc get 3 bolt escapes in a row he's gone unless you have someone chasing or you're able to doit by yourself.

There are plenty of speed stacking posibilities. Did you know rapid manuver preaty much stacks on anything as long as you dont "atack" something? And yes, it doesnt give you 100% chance of catching a bolting spec unless they want to engage you as it should be. Just offtopic, i saw a player in human form run waaaay faster then a ~50% horse and i was unable to catch up, he was wearing the covenant heavy set and he wasnt an orc, he probably had raid manuver altough i didnt see any effects. Meybe someone can elighten me as to where did he get that speed as i was unable to figure it out?

The horse bug (intended?) is a huge problem for everyone, you have /bug command ingame but its got nothing to do with bolt escape so dont blame a sorc skill for a bug with mounts. Fix the horse mounting timers, i agree. Further more the game is stil young enough, people stil upgrading their mounts, try running on a mount with rapid manuver (yes, they stack) and you will get a feel on how fast a mount will actualy be. Nothing in this game can even come close to catching up on a person running on a fully upgraded speed mount (with or withouth rapid manuver).

The stun/projectile absorb "advantages" from bolt escape are preaty unreliable and dont always work but lets assume for a moment they do, a sorc will have to bolt trough you to stun you for 2 seconds, by the time they cast the 2nd bolt escape you're already recovered even if you didnt cc break so plenty of time to chain them back to you or charge or whatever. I personaly rerolled with the Streak morph since the damage it inflicts on the people in its path is somewhat more reliable (doesnt always land in pvp) and doesnt lay a trail of blue balls for everyone to follow.

You have a point tought, a sorc, if specced corectly can be the fastest on foot "runner" and if you do not stop them in time there's no catching them. They are squishy as hell tough, if you give a random dps build for example the posibility of keeping up/being faster and killing them at the same time...how would that balance the game? They are specced for kiting thus kiting, a nb would combat stealth in the same sittuation and a dk would pop defensive ability after defensive ability.

I am all for giving everyone access to every ability tho, this would definatly shut up all the whiners about "this is op, that is op", or would it? (refference: vampire bat swarm whines)

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO

jobo11b16_ESO wrote: »

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO wrote: »

Interesting build. Its not a melee build tho, its just a kiting build withouth bolt escape. Very nice use of magnum shot to make up for the lack of mobility, thats something everyone should take note off, im definatly gonna play around with the synergies in your build and see how much fun i can pull out of it

Melee Sorcerer Build

Not enough survivability for being in melee, you could use stampede as a finisher though, perfectly viable, given you get the enemy to run away, it will hit 300-450 at best withouth momentum, depending on your gear. You also sacrifice alot of crit chance, critical surge will only benefit off your stampede and the little heal received will not manage to keep you alive (200-300 plus the 70-80 ticks from mutagen, not that impressive). Any dk/nb will turn you into a corpse in seconds unless you keep your distance. A templar would do the same with (with a bit more effort and less efficiency). This build is not viable vs a veteran enemy, you were on the right track though with the kiting bow build.

EDIT: you could at least add http://esohead.com/skills/29482-empowered-ward but even that will not be able to provide much mitigation

Tanthul

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO wrote: »

Iw tried the spamming silver bolt with multiple groupies doing it and vampire simply laughed and misted away. Silver bolt doesnt work vs spamming mist vampire unless you're really lucky. Only counter is to get in melee and root (if they dont have rapid manuver up) and aoe.

Sorry I can not believe that. Me and my entire guild are killing vampires all over the place with Silver Shards... Root is a valid counter as well but Silver Bolts works wonders anyhow. The only only logical explanation I can think of is if you're actually trying to time it and you don't know about the animation delay issue of mist form (meaning the actual affect expires prior to it's animation switching you to your original form).

A non-vampire would have died in that sittuation when he misted and walked into the friendly group. Going into mist form allowed them to relocate to safety thus it increased their survivability, i repeat the single target skills do not hit the vamp in mist form so you have to target them by using aoe,

Evasive maneuvers would allow the same. And I repeat you are wrong. Single target abilities work perfectly fine and hit the vampire perfectly fine while they are in mist form. I seriously do not know how you get the idea that they don't.. I am both hitting vampires with them constantly (I don't use AOE skills at all on my NB build) and have been hit constantly as well while I was using Elusive Mists when it still had some use.

We clearly share different opinions about how vampire class should/should not be so there's no point in arguing over that. I am heavily against the paper-rock-scissors mechanics and thus the hate toward fire weakness and whole tree dedicated to kill vamps/wws and doubt there are good enough arguments to persuade me altough you are free to try.

There is no point in me trying to convince you because you obviously have a different concept of PVP gameplay than I do. I am all for the tactical, everything has a use and a counter kind of thing. So yeah rock-paper-scissors works for me. I don't like any possibility of uberbuilds, builds without counters/vulnerabilities and I do like having a diverse array of tools I can switch to in order to counter/outsmart my opponent. Since you embrace a different philosophy on PVP gameplay we can just agree to disagree on this. But ESO is currently following the philosophy I personally like so I can't help but mention when they make changes that render skills entirely useless (not worth to slot in any case or situation) or don't fix issues that break the gameplay.

The whole point of my post in one sentence: "mist form gives a person more survivability then if they were not vampires at all". Not sure whats your stand on this from your answer, id assume you're saying thats not true?

It is certainly not true. I already explained, elaborately I believe, that ANY non-vampire player has more survivability than a vampire player. A vampire has only increased survivability if you play against them without taking account the fact that they are vampires. But that stands for everything really. It would be the same (crude example) as saying that you won't take any armor piercing skills or stats against a player that is stacking armor then claim that armor as a stat is overpowered.
A player that takes on Vampirism is immediately easier to kill than a player that has not. As long as you use the proper tools against them (Fighter's Guild skill line and Fire damage). Even if they cover the fire vulnerability with jewelry it still a damage type that they can never build any resistance to (they can only cover the hole) unlike any other player who's SR alone reduces fire damage input above the baseline. So they will ALWAYS take more than a non-vampire player. The Slayer passive alone (in FG) is additional bonus damage against them that stacks with any damage source, including fire. Add Silver Bolts+Expert Hunter and the damage they take is insane.
A player which spams mist form (to cover his vulnerability they would not need to cover if they had never been a vampire in the first place) can not do anything more than spam mist form and wait to die. They can not be healed or use any skills. Root them and they can not move either they can only spam mist form 4-6 times in total (for 4 seconds each) while in combat depending on their exact build (magicka cost reduction/magicka regeneration in combat..possible proc from furnace set if they're using that etc).
So it is mathematically certain that vampire has far less survivability than non-vampire. The only real reasons you would want to be a vampire were:
a)Dark Stalker passive. (increased stealth speed-which is tactical)
b)Elusive Mist (Increased speed for scouting or repositioning synergizing with A- also tactical but now useless entirely)
c)Supernatural Recovery (Increased Magicka/Stamina regen -this helps a lot with some builds can is not worth the handicap you are placing on your character..there are better ways to build that depending on your build)
d) Stage 4 Vampirism+Devouring Swarm with ultimate cost reduction stacking.

Of those, A to C where used on normal viable builds. D on the other hand and the ability to spam vampire bats with as low as 4 ultimate cost was what was and still is (to some extent) broken and they main reason powerplayers min/maxers wanted vampire. It was survivability due to spamming the life draining, aoe ulti. It was not ever related to Elusive Mist (in fact the majority of these builds used Poison morph becuase it build ulti faster..they didn't care--and should not in regard to those builds) about Elusive Mist at all. People just spammed an ulti that stacks with itself, while going sword and shield as well for block/bash. This is what was broken for vampires. Their fix included a fix for the stacking with it self but they decided to nerf the vampire stage in order to fix the ulti cost reduction stacking. This made any builds that did not exploit the massive stacking, subpar. While those who were using stacking builds are still viable, it's just not as broken as it was. The proper way would be to make certain ulti cost reduction passives not stack with each other.

Currently you can still do D and be very effective. B is useless as a tool. A and C are still decent but are they worth the insane vulnerability? I guess they are for some builds. I still do regular scouting with my build (using Dark Stalker+Steed+Divines--which makes me even less tanky than using Impenetrable on small enchant pieces or Infused with health glyphs--but it's a utility build that is meant to do that..scout. Then I can always switch to other armor if I want to fight ) or I would have dropped Vampire entirely at this point. I refuse to go with the broken ulti cost reduction builds. I don't condone using broken builds or find any fun whatsoever in them.

Bottom line == vampire is the opposite of resilient unless you:
a) Don't use the proper tools against them
b) They use the broken vampire bat spam builds. Mist form was never an issue or factor except for people that did not understand how to counter it. And I stand by my statement that Bolt Escape is also fine as it is. There are several ways to counter them so people should just explore game mechanics and use proper tools to counter. Expecting to have a total of 10 skills on, 24/7, that can deal with everything you'll possibly face, is not going to work.

Tintinabula

Im a vamp..when I saw batswarm being spammed back to back my first reaction was "thats ridiculous"..Some one recently posted they could spam BE 12 times in a row...Im sorry..but that's "ridiculous".Im a magika reliant heavy magika based DK and there are NO spells I can spam back to back 12 times in a row.

Tanthul

Do not compare BE with Bat Swarm. Bat Swarm is an ultimate. Ultimates should never be spammable..hence they're an "ultimate" skill that is available every now and then. BE is a normal skill. There are lots of spells that can be spammed 12 times in a row and more when out of combat and some in combat as long as you build for it. But if you're building for something like that (magicka cost reduction, spell cost reduction set, capped magicka regeneration) you are not building for spell power/spell critical etc (all these are jewelry enchants so you have to choose there, plus getting sets that help with that, you don't get sets that help with something else etc etc.. These are normal build tradeoffs). There is nothing out of order in this case.

NordJitsu

https://imgur.com/RHkTuZq

canghai

IF GAP MAKER GETS NERFED, GAP CLOSER SHOULD GET A NERF TOO

Bergs

Arreyanne wrote: »

If Mist was OP then Bolt escape has to be and was the most broken abiility in the game.

Instant Ha Ha You cant kill me button

Mistform was far more broken than Bolt Escape ever will be.
I admit Bolt Escape can be abused, but please name a class that doesn't have abusive abilities...
DK: Talons, Standard, Dragon Blood
NB: Dark Cloak
Templar: Backlash, Eclipse

It's PvP please attempt to adapt. Dumb players will always die to better ones, but just because your LOL gap closer isn't effective against one ability doesn't make that ability "OP."

Honestly I am fine with Bolt Escape getting nerfed, right after they nerf the range of melee abilities to 3m (instead of 5-7m) and reduce the max range of ALL gap closers to 10m. 22m gap closers are a F'ing joke considering my max range on any ability is 28m. Kiting classes need a way to kite, period.

The post above mine explains this a little more concisely:

canghai wrote: »

IF GAP MAKER GETS NERFED, GAP CLOSER SHOULD GET A NERF TOO

Gedwyn

Bolt escape is fine.

It's limited, and you can chase one down and get the kill if you really want to.

It's just an escape skill - it's not generating any kills or doing any damage.

If you let that Sorc get away, that's your choice.

If you let them come back and harass you and bolt away again - that's your fault for letting them do it. Figure out the counters and use them.

Artis

IDK what you can discuss here for 12 pages.

Bolt Escape IS OP. It's a fact. You can't catch a sorc if he doesn't want you to. No matter how good you are or how hard you try during the fight - the fight we'll stop when he wants it to.

But what's even more annoying... I encountered a sorc yesterday, he would boltescape through me, stun me. I'd break CC and turn around... He'd bolt escape through me again.. and then again.. I could not do anything.
I'd CC him, but he would just teleport with that CC on. Crippling Grasp.. No help. He can teleport rooted and when did sorcs care about snaring lol? And he killed me like that pretty quick. (there's a morph that makes his Bolt Escape damage you, called Streak).

Of course, maybe it's somehow related to the fact, that the sorc was at higher level. But it's more like the idea of this ability is wrong. It's too good. And we NBs don't have anything to counter it.. or anything that can't be countered and strong, too.

Asava

I bet that took forever for you to die to the 212 damage streak. Maybe you should learn what block is for as a heavy?

Glurin

Totally agree with Asava. If a sorc killed you with Streak, that's a L2P issue on your part. It does little damage and the stun on it can be blocked. It's really a waste of magicka to try killing someone with it.

monkeymystic

Bergs wrote: »

Arreyanne wrote: »

If Mist was OP then Bolt escape has to be and was the most broken abiility in the game.

Instant Ha Ha You cant kill me button

Mistform was far more broken than Bolt Escape ever will be.
I admit Bolt Escape can be abused, but please name a class that doesn't have abusive abilities...
DK: Talons, Standard, Dragon Blood
NB: Dark Cloak
Templar: Backlash, Eclipse

It's PvP please attempt to adapt. Dumb players will always die to better ones, but just because your LOL gap closer isn't effective against one ability doesn't make that ability "OP."

Honestly I am fine with Bolt Escape getting nerfed, right after they nerf the range of melee abilities to 3m (instead of 5-7m) and reduce the max range of ALL gap closers to 10m. 22m gap closers are a F'ing joke considering my max range on any ability is 28m. Kiting classes need a way to kite, period.

The post above mine explains this a little more concisely:

canghai wrote: »

IF GAP MAKER GETS NERFED, GAP CLOSER SHOULD GET A NERF TOO

The templar self heals are much stronger than DK dragon blood, and it's good at 70% health as well, unlike dragon blood which sucks then. Templars just needs to learn how to make their heals stronger with resto passives + restoring passives + healing bonus.

But you are right, all classes have abilities that are unique and strong, even if NBs are a bit weaker than the rest in general.

Escape bolt needs some tuning so it can't be spammed however.

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO

Tanthul wrote: »

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO wrote: »

Iw tried the spamming silver bolt with multiple groupies doing it and vampire simply laughed and misted away. Silver bolt doesnt work vs spamming mist vampire unless you're really lucky. Only counter is to get in melee and root (if they dont have rapid manuver up) and aoe.

Sorry I can not believe that. Me and my entire guild are killing vampires all over the place with Silver Shards... Root is a valid counter as well but Silver Bolts works wonders anyhow. The only only logical explanation I can think of is if you're actually trying to time it and you don't know about the animation delay issue of mist form (meaning the actual affect expires prior to it's animation switching you to your original form).

A non-vampire would have died in that sittuation when he misted and walked into the friendly group. Going into mist form allowed them to relocate to safety thus it increased their survivability, i repeat the single target skills do not hit the vamp in mist form so you have to target them by using aoe,

Evasive maneuvers would allow the same. And I repeat you are wrong. Single target abilities work perfectly fine and hit the vampire perfectly fine while they are in mist form. I seriously do not know how you get the idea that they don't.. I am both hitting vampires with them constantly (I don't use AOE skills at all on my NB build) and have been hit constantly as well while I was using Elusive Mists when it still had some use.

We clearly share different opinions about how vampire class should/should not be so there's no point in arguing over that. I am heavily against the paper-rock-scissors mechanics and thus the hate toward fire weakness and whole tree dedicated to kill vamps/wws and doubt there are good enough arguments to persuade me altough you are free to try.

There is no point in me trying to convince you because you obviously have a different concept of PVP gameplay than I do. I am all for the tactical, everything has a use and a counter kind of thing. So yeah rock-paper-scissors works for me. I don't like any possibility of uberbuilds, builds without counters/vulnerabilities and I do like having a diverse array of tools I can switch to in order to counter/outsmart my opponent. Since you embrace a different philosophy on PVP gameplay we can just agree to disagree on this. But ESO is currently following the philosophy I personally like so I can't help but mention when they make changes that render skills entirely useless (not worth to slot in any case or situation) or don't fix issues that break the gameplay.

The whole point of my post in one sentence: "mist form gives a person more survivability then if they were not vampires at all". Not sure whats your stand on this from your answer, id assume you're saying thats not true?

It is certainly not true. I already explained, elaborately I believe, that ANY non-vampire player has more survivability than a vampire player. A vampire has only increased survivability if you play against them without taking account the fact that they are vampires. But that stands for everything really. It would be the same (crude example) as saying that you won't take any armor piercing skills or stats against a player that is stacking armor then claim that armor as a stat is overpowered.
A player that takes on Vampirism is immediately easier to kill than a player that has not. As long as you use the proper tools against them (Fighter's Guild skill line and Fire damage). Even if they cover the fire vulnerability with jewelry it still a damage type that they can never build any resistance to (they can only cover the hole) unlike any other player who's SR alone reduces fire damage input above the baseline. So they will ALWAYS take more than a non-vampire player. The Slayer passive alone (in FG) is additional bonus damage against them that stacks with any damage source, including fire. Add Silver Bolts+Expert Hunter and the damage they take is insane.
A player which spams mist form (to cover his vulnerability they would not need to cover if they had never been a vampire in the first place) can not do anything more than spam mist form and wait to die. They can not be healed or use any skills. Root them and they can not move either they can only spam mist form 4-6 times in total (for 4 seconds each) while in combat depending on their exact build (magicka cost reduction/magicka regeneration in combat..possible proc from furnace set if they're using that etc).
So it is mathematically certain that vampire has far less survivability than non-vampire. The only real reasons you would want to be a vampire were:
a)Dark Stalker passive. (increased stealth speed-which is tactical)
b)Elusive Mist (Increased speed for scouting or repositioning synergizing with A- also tactical but now useless entirely)
c)Supernatural Recovery (Increased Magicka/Stamina regen -this helps a lot with some builds can is not worth the handicap you are placing on your character..there are better ways to build that depending on your build)
d) Stage 4 Vampirism+Devouring Swarm with ultimate cost reduction stacking.

Of those, A to C where used on normal viable builds. D on the other hand and the ability to spam vampire bats with as low as 4 ultimate cost was what was and still is (to some extent) broken and they main reason powerplayers min/maxers wanted vampire. It was survivability due to spamming the life draining, aoe ulti. It was not ever related to Elusive Mist (in fact the majority of these builds used Poison morph becuase it build ulti faster..they didn't care--and should not in regard to those builds) about Elusive Mist at all. People just spammed an ulti that stacks with itself, while going sword and shield as well for block/bash. This is what was broken for vampires. Their fix included a fix for the stacking with it self but they decided to nerf the vampire stage in order to fix the ulti cost reduction stacking. This made any builds that did not exploit the massive stacking, subpar. While those who were using stacking builds are still viable, it's just not as broken as it was. The proper way would be to make certain ulti cost reduction passives not stack with each other.

Currently you can still do D and be very effective. B is useless as a tool. A and C are still decent but are they worth the insane vulnerability? I guess they are for some builds. I still do regular scouting with my build (using Dark Stalker+Steed+Divines--which makes me even less tanky than using Impenetrable on small enchant pieces or Infused with health glyphs--but it's a utility build that is meant to do that..scout. Then I can always switch to other armor if I want to fight ) or I would have dropped Vampire entirely at this point. I refuse to go with the broken ulti cost reduction builds. I don't condone using broken builds or find any fun whatsoever in them.

Bottom line == vampire is the opposite of resilient unless you:
a) Don't use the proper tools against them
b) They use the broken vampire bat spam builds. Mist form was never an issue or factor except for people that did not understand how to counter it. And I stand by my statement that Bolt Escape is also fine as it is. There are several ways to counter them so people should just explore game mechanics and use proper tools to counter. Expecting to have a total of 10 skills on, 24/7, that can deal with everything you'll possibly face, is not going to work.

Wow, thanks for the very detailed response

I am running a build leaning towards magika most of the times since all the tools avaible to me on my main (sorc) are magika spells. In this regard i do not have enough stamina to spam more then 3 bolts, i do try to time them and i will definatly take into consideration what you said about the delay.

About aiming skills at the mist form, cant really say they hit now can i when the vamp is full health when out of mist form while i spam damage skills towards the misty mass that runs away or snared (if lucky). If you are aware how that is possible while my skills hit then by all means do explain.

I agree with you on using tools for certain situation parts, that is not rock/paper/scissors. Rock/paper/scissors is when a DK will always kill a Vamp, when a Vamp will always kill a sorcerer and so on, or be very hard to change the outcome in such an encounter. Having static class x or spec x counters class/spec y. I like to know that i stand a chance gainst every build i meet and so do you, guess our views are not that far apart after all :P

You have valid points but think of this: only 1 out of 4 classes has access to fire spells, the others might gain some damage from using fire enchants on weapons and/or aim for fire procs from destro staff but thats about it. Fighter's guild is stamina based (magika builds are stamina starved as it is). This is the rock/paper/scissor system that i am against, force a class to spec with 1 type of armour and sacrifice half its skill slots to be able to fight a vamp, that you dont even know if a vamp or not until they use skills. I remind you that the fighter guild abilities are useless vs anything else besides vamps/wws so you end up gimping yourself beyound useless if you follow this path. DK's have it easy vs a vamp since they have fire based skills and quite a nice arsenal and yes, you dont stand a chance vs a DK with a clue, run away or get melted (rock/paper/scissors again).

I do like the idea of vampires but i dont like how they were implemented, i will go vampire on my solo roaming NB at some point for you A and C arguments and see how it goes.

Thanks for your time and insight, if you have any suggestion about the no damage to mist form part im all ears

ForTheRealm

Gedwyn wrote: »

Bolt escape is fine.
It's limited, and you can chase one down and get the kill if you really want to.

Please teach me how. After 2 zips Sorc is already out of the range of any close gap utility.

Gedwyn wrote: »

It's just an escape skill - it's not generating any kills or doing any damage.

You may be not aware of it, but you can use Bolt Escape not just for travelling and escaping. Even in its basic form, it can stun and Streak morph adds also damage and disorient.

Gedwyn wrote: »

If you let that Sorc get away, that's your choice.

If you let them come back and harass you and bolt away again - that's your fault for letting them do it. Figure out the counters and use them.

Please enlighten me! I have counters for DK and NB abilities, but somehow I cannot figure out the one for Bolt Escape, as after 2 zips Sorc is already out of the range of any close gap utility.

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO

piotreb17_ESO4 wrote: »

Gedwyn wrote: »

Bolt escape is fine.
It's limited, and you can chase one down and get the kill if you really want to.

Please teach me how. After 2 zips Sorc is already out of the range of any close gap utility.

Gedwyn wrote: »

It's just an escape skill - it's not generating any kills or doing any damage.

You may be not aware of it, but you can use Bolt Escape not just for travelling and escaping. Even in its basic form, it can stun and Streak morph adds also damage and disorient.

Gedwyn wrote: »

If you let that Sorc get away, that's your choice.

If you let them come back and harass you and bolt away again - that's your fault for letting them do it. Figure out the counters and use them.

Please enlighten me! I have counters for DK and NB abilities, but somehow I cannot figure out the one for Bolt Escape, as after 2 zips Sorc is already out of the range of any close gap utility.

If you let the sorc take 2 zips withouth doing anything (14+14=28 distance) then its your fault for letting the distance between the 2 of you widen. Now if near a keep, if using a bow with cyrodiil set and if simply running towards the sorc, will decrese the distance so sorc needs to do 3 bolts to be out of your range. If you cant stop the sorc in any way, kill it or do not use any gap closer in that time its your own fault for letting them get away, for a bow user thats plenty of time for 2-3 heavy atacks with insta skills between them (gave bow as example since accessible to all classes but there are plenty of options if you stop and think of your class abilities and preffered weapons)

Ohh, streak morph doesnt stun, it trades the stun for the damage (~200) for all the targets you run trough, unfortunately its not very viable for pvp since it reduces your magika regen to 0 for 5 sec.

Yajnho

I am not sure how running away a lot is so op. Frustrating does not equal overpowered.

What I can see is an argument for increasing the cost of ANY movement ability while carrying a scroll.

And instead of disallowing climbing on a horse during combat, just apply a cool down to horse if you get knocked off.

Beretic

Hit BE with the nerf bat already. Sooner rather than later.

true2moon_ESO

by the time they figure out this breaks PvP, and actually do something about it, there will be no one playing this game....

TheBucket

Bergs wrote: »

Arreyanne wrote: »

If Mist was OP then Bolt escape has to be and was the most broken abiility in the game.

Instant Ha Ha You cant kill me button

Mistform was far more broken than Bolt Escape ever will be.
I admit Bolt Escape can be abused, but please name a class that doesn't have abusive abilities...
DK: Talons, Standard, Dragon Blood
NB: Dark Cloak
Templar: Backlash, Eclipse

It's PvP please attempt to adapt. Dumb players will always die to better ones, but just because your LOL gap closer isn't effective against one ability doesn't make that ability "OP."

Honestly I am fine with Bolt Escape getting nerfed, right after they nerf the range of melee abilities to 3m (instead of 5-7m) and reduce the max range of ALL gap closers to 10m. 22m gap closers are a F'ing joke considering my max range on any ability is 28m. Kiting classes need a way to kite, period.

The post above mine explains this a little more concisely:

canghai wrote: »

IF GAP MAKER GETS NERFED, GAP CLOSER SHOULD GET A NERF TOO

I like some of your points but you are way off base if you think dark cloak is abused on nightblade. Most the nightblades I know won't even use that ability lol. Its half broken

sushi

remove the stun mechanic from bolt and id say that is as far as it should go

Halrloprillalar

true2moon_ESO wrote: »

by the time they figure out this breaks PvP, and actually do something about it, there will be no one playing this game....

HAHAHAHAHAHA BE BREAKS PVP????

oh thanks for that. Good lord, I needed a laugh.

Kiljaz

If people think BE is the skill that needs to be nerfed, they really shouldn't play pvp. There are a lot of way more powerful uncounterable skills. BE is very easy to counter. Critical charge, Invasion, teleport strikes, dodge roll movement bonus and speed potion. There's many ways to shutdown BE. So quit crying and learn to play.

Tintinabula

running away to that degree is like saying "haha I'm in the fight!!"..shards ..lightning... reach.. and then poof "im not in the fight any longer..oh wait yes I am!!" shards.... lightning.... stun and heavy attack..'nope..not in the fight any longer"..."wait yes I am...errm no I'm not"

Ive watched groups of sorcs "drive by" chipping away at some poor guys health. Yea its not as aggravating as it used to be..cause as a non sorc user you learn how to read the terrain and the direction they're headed. Some sorcs actually escape..the other type stop and use equilibrium to come back...thats when you hide and wait. ...CHARGE. STUN .ROOT. DOTS.... and if they do escape they think twice about messing with you again cause they're landing through midair and the drop just might finish them off. :P

madstoogb16_ESO

Dont know how anyone can argue that this skill isn't a complete joke in pvp

Mojomonkeyman

Artemis wrote: »

IDK what you can discuss here for 12 pages.

Bolt Escape IS OP. It's a fact. You can't catch a sorc if he doesn't want you to. No matter how good you are or how hard you try during the fight - the fight we'll stop when he wants it to.

But what's even more annoying... I encountered a sorc yesterday, he would boltescape through me, stun me. I'd break CC and turn around... He'd bolt escape through me again.. and then again.. I could not do anything.
I'd CC him, but he would just teleport with that CC on. Crippling Grasp.. No help. He can teleport rooted and when did sorcs care about snaring lol? And he killed me like that pretty quick. (there's a morph that makes his Bolt Escape damage you, called Streak).

Of course, maybe it's somehow related to the fact, that the sorc was at higher level. But it's more like the idea of this ability is wrong. It's too good. And we NBs don't have anything to counter it.. or anything that can't be countered and strong, too.

This thread is so golden. Just let this one sink.

So, the sorc did not only kill you with streak alone (which is almost impossible to do, it doesn`t even crit higher than 300+, in most cases its closer to 200) but he did manage to stun you several times in a row despite you being cc immune for half of an eternity after breaking out the first time?

Please tell me more of your "facts", you really seem to like that word, despite having no clue of what it actually means...

I mean I don`t even want to start with actual facts, such as the option to block the streak, dodge roll sideways (streak stun is a pretty thin line of effect) and/or put on some kind off cc immunity (which is accessible to anyone in the heavy armor traits i.e.).

Regards