Now that mist form is out of the way, next up - Bolt Escape!

Helba

gunslinger3440 wrote: »

Oh, I understand a Sorc can never kill a similar rank DK 1 on 1 as a VR10DK.

The part about the shield charge for killing the Sorcs is the stuff that doesn't work with me.
Since they stun me on their first BE and even if i break CC real fast, they have used their second BE already and have gotten easily out of range of shield charge.

How does one counter that?

Like NordJitsu mentioned before, don't get cc'd and the kill is yours. From initiated ranged combat a sorceror cannot hurt a DK, especially ones that build tank and vice versa. Use stealth and burst to your advantage to get in range to deal with sorcerers.

DKs are capable of incredible dps with shield bash, shield charge and talons you can burst down a caster sorceror easily if you sneak up on them and they can't touch you if you know what your doing. Block, spell reflect, dragon blood all means you should not, cannot die from a sorceror from ranged.

The sorceror getting away because you got yourself cc'd is something you can't counter but it doesn't matter because you've won, that's it. The sorceror left the area and cannot fight you and they accomplished nothing.

gunslinger3440

Helba wrote: »

The sorceror getting away because you got yourself cc'd is something you can't counter but it doesn't matter because you've won, that's it. The sorceror left the area and cannot fight you and they accomplished nothing.

Yeah, I share similar views with You and NordJitsu now.

Thank you too Helba.

Tanthul

gunslinger3440 wrote: »

Tanthul wrote: »

Also Bolt Escape is perfectly fine. Learn how to counter it (I guess a lot of people don't like tactical/utility morphs and prefer taking Poison Injection instead of Venom Arrow that does wonders on someone trying to run with Bolt Escape-for example.)

Lay off Bolt Escape and stop calling for nerfs because you don't know how to counter something. Stop asking for entire skills to become useless.

I totally agree with you with everything else except for these lines.
Poison Injection will NOT kill a HP3000 Sorc.
Poison Injection IS NOT a solid counter to BE.
I really don't see why a smart guy like you would mention a DOT as a solid counter to BE.

I think you completely misread that part of the post mate. I was saying that people prefer to take a morph like Poison Injection because it does more damage instead of a morph like Venom Arrow that does wonders on someone trying to run with Bolt Escape (has tactical/utility value instead of raw damage). So it's not Poison Injection that you want in that example, you want Venom Arrow.

Venom Arrow puts the target off balance, interrupts SPELLS and stuns for 3 seconds. Time it right and no Sorcerer will be able to run from you with BE. Even spamming it, without careful timing, is enough to stop them from fleeing enough to be burst down by additional ranged attacks or dots thrown into the mix. On my Nightblade I like coupling it with Swallow Soul and I haven't met a single Bolt Escape user able to run from me unless they're outside my range to begin with. In fact three days ago I was teaching this particular combo to a guildmember of mine who yesterday was jumping around on TS happy for his 3 consecutive kills on a Bolt Escape user that was annoying him constantly

NordJitsu's suggestion works very good for DKs.:)

EDIT: To put things more into perspective. I say Bolt Escape is fine and lay off of it and I don't play a Sorcerer (I actually have one that is level 3 and have played all classes in Beta except Templar). My current main character is a Nightblade which is in fact the most underpowered class currently:p And yet you don't see me calling for a Bolt Escape nerf because I understand game mechanics and I find the spell to be perfectly fine. It allows someone to run (which is what it is supposed to do) but it can also be countered in several ways.

gunslinger3440

Tanthul wrote: »

I think you completely misread that part of the post mate. I was saying that people prefer to take a morph like Poison Injection because it does more damage instead of a morph like Venom Arrow that does wonders on someone trying to run with Bolt Escape (has tactical/utility value instead of raw damage). So it's not Poison Injection that you want in that example, you want Venom Arrow.

Venom Arrow puts the target off balance, interrupts SPELLS and stuns for 3 seconds. Time it right and no Sorcerer will be able to run from you with BE. Even spamming it, without careful timing, is enough to stop them from fleeing enough to be burst down by additional ranged attacks or dots thrown into the mix. On my Nightblade I like coupling it with Swallow Soul and I haven't met a single Bolt Escape user able to run from me unless they're outside my range to begin with. In fact three days ago I was teaching this particular combo to a guildmember of mine who yesterday was jumping around on TS happy for his 3 consecutive kills on a Bolt Escape user that was annoying him constantly

NordJitsu's suggestion works very good for DKs.:)

Ahh, I am very sorry to have replied such foolishly.I misread the skill names as you are aware.You were a smart guy saying a good thing.Thank you for having patience with your reply.

I see your build would work good too.

I'll try that out also, I was going to respec anyways with the upcoming update.

Very helpful many thanks!

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO

Tintinabula wrote: »

and...explain again how elusive mist was any different?

Mist form makes you invisible to the players and also makes you take nearly no damage, pair that up with the vampire passives and its quite the survivability tool. If bolt escape is a distance gainer, mist form is 2nd in survivability bested only the the magma armour ultimate of the dk (that is very situational and costs alot of ultimate).

Tanthul

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO wrote: »

Mist form makes you invisible to the players and also makes you take nearly no damage, pair that up with the vampire passives and its quite the survivability tool. If bolt escape is a distance gainer, mist form is 2nd in survivability bested only the the magma armour ultimate of the dk (that is very situational and costs alot of ultimate).

a) Mist form does not make you invisible to the players. It makes a you a mist. Also it paints you immediately as a vampire which makes any player that has the slightest idea of what they're doing to slot at least Silver Bolts/Silver Shards.

b) Mist form as a survivability tool in PVE works just fine. In PVP though it is just meant to counter the inherent vulnerabilities of being a Vampire. One might argue that the 50% extra fire damage can be covered with jewerly+spell resistance. This is true but since the hardcap of mitigation is 2500 (any combination of resist and spell resist values that total 2500 when added), this means that you can only nullify the penalty and not build any additional mitigation against fire, which is a very common damage type (specially in PVP). Hence any non-vampire player can reduce fire damage intake by 50% while a vampire can not. Also the Fighter's Guild passives and active skills can not be countered via any other way. This is what the damage mitigation part of mist form is meant to counter having the drawback of not being able to use any skill whatsoever or receive any healing while doing it. For this reason, in PVP, it should never be considered a survivability tool by any means. It is a counter to the huge amounts of damage anyone using the proper tools can inflict on a vampire.

c) Mist form's morphs had two intended uses in regards to PVP:
1) Elusive morph: Tactical/escaping tool. That could be countered and had serious disadvantages for its intended use. This is now entirely useless.
2) Poison Mist: This is the morph that synergizes with tanking/ultimate building builds. It has some uses in specific PVP builds but in my opinion it is much better for PVE tanking builds. I would not slot it for any serious PVP build unless it is meant to be a mitigation stacking build that could use it while regenerating resources midfight.

The speed nerf on elusive mist apparently happened because too many people who had no idea how to counter it were very much vocal. And now the same is being called for Bolt Escape in this thread. This is the reality of things.

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO

jobo11b16_ESO wrote: »

dahl.lucas_ESO wrote: »

Bolt escape is never a 100% thing. Sorcs die in 2 to 3 hits and you guys think it's unfair that they can create distance if out planned from the player trying to kill them? Thanks for the entertainment.

People that spec for full glass die quickly, Sorcerers aren't limited to only wearing light armour and ignoring the defensive abilities the class has. Do the people defending Bolt Escape think that each of the classes is limited to a specific armour set or something? Its like they haven't even looked at their abilities. How is it reasonable that Sorcerers can build for glass cannon AND have high survivability just by using Bolt Escape.

Lol, sorcs are not glass cannons becouse they wear light armour, they are glass cannons becouse they lack bunker type defensive abilities. Many of the deadliest dk's out there are full light...yes..u guessed right, its for the sweet passives and armour and its only boosting their survivability

If you can link me 1 working build where a sorc can be on par with other classes in melee range then you have my vote. Let me give you one: build to counter a talon/whiplash spamming dk. Ohh, using some class abilities is a given and i also want flexibility (i.e.: dont force me into shield and pointy stick, that is highly broken/abusable at the moment).

You fail to realize we dont have any reliable self heals only a weak shield and critical surge (that is very easy counterable by simple traiting and everyone with half a brain will do just that since there are so many crit builds in cyrodiil).

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO

Kraigan wrote: »

Hail_Sithis wrote: »

Fiery gripping a running target so they can't escape your onslaught? Nonsense! It makes much more sense to just sprint after them mashing left click fruitlessly!

You do, of course, realize that fiery gripping a target provides CC immunity to that target so that they can escape with greater ease, right?

If you cannot finish a low sorc once he's in your melee range, be that target snared (you can ofcourse chain a soft cc with the pull) or not (bolting for their lives) then you are doing something wrong. And i took the worse case scenario here (where you are completly alone), even if you run solo there usualy are a couple of randoms more then willing to leech ap with some dps assist on the low targets.

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO

beravinprb19_ESO wrote: »

Since we are all being dumb because Bolt has Escape in its name, why can you use Bolt "Escape" offensively, with damage and stuns, even when not running away? Now, lets get away from the idea that the name is important, and focus on what actually matters.

Becouse it gives you a 5 second magika regen debuff -> you will not regen any magika in that time. I personaly swapped to Streak since bolt escape is bugged (doesnt absorb projectiles when it should and the stun has a mind of its own) and i seldomly ever get to use it for anything other then escape/chase.

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO

Tanthul wrote: »

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO wrote: »

Mist form makes you invisible to the players and also makes you take nearly no damage, pair that up with the vampire passives and its quite the survivability tool. If bolt escape is a distance gainer, mist form is 2nd in survivability bested only the the magma armour ultimate of the dk (that is very situational and costs alot of ultimate).

a) Mist form does not make you invisible to the players. It makes a you a mist. Also it paints you immediately as a vampire which makes any player that has the slightest idea of what they're doing to slot at least Silver Bolts/Silver Shards.

b) Mist form as a survivability tool in PVE works just fine. In PVP though it is just meant to counter the inherent vulnerabilities of being a Vampire. One might argue that the 50% extra fire damage can be covered with jewerly+spell resistance. This is true but since the hardcap of mitigation is 2500 (any combination of resist and spell resist values that total 2500 when added), this means that you can only nullify the penalty and not build any additional mitigation against fire, which is a very common damage type (specially in PVP). Hence any non-vampire player can reduce fire damage intake by 50% while a vampire can not. Also the Fighter's Guild passives and active skills can not be countered via any other way. This is what the damage mitigation part of mist form is meant to counter having the drawback of not being able to use any skill whatsoever or receive any healing while doing it. For this reason, in PVP, it should never be considered a survivability tool by any means. It is a counter to the huge amounts of damage anyone using the proper tools can inflict on a vampire.

c) Mist form's morphs had two intended uses in regards to PVP:
1) Elusive morph: Tactical/escaping tool. That could be countered and had serious disadvantages for its intended use. This is now entirely useless.
2) Poison Mist: This is the morph that synergizes with tanking/ultimate building builds. It has some uses in specific PVP builds but in my opinion it is much better for PVE tanking builds. I would not slot it for any serious PVP build unless it is meant to be a mitigation stacking build that could use it while regenerating resources midfight.

The speed nerf on elusive mist apparently happened because too many people who had no idea how to counter it were very much vocal. And now the same is being called for Bolt Escape in this thread. This is the reality of things.

a) Yes, it makes u into a mist that i barely visible in many scenarios (cant see tab target and all). It also makes you untargetable by single target skills, you preaty much have to use aoe cc/dps and thats preaty hard if not in range. Spamming silver bolts might or might not work, it has to be timed very well.

b) The 50% increased fire damage and fighter skill line was a stupid move, that skilltree was doomed to be broken for PvP from the start and to that extent mist form can be considered as a counter and one of the best if at it. People become more survivable by getting vampire and adding mist form to their bar. Thats what i said: its one of the best survivability tools out there even with the speed nerf.

c) From what i understand poison mist is broken and doesnt do any damage (feel free to confirm/infirm). Aither way elusive mist is way more common. I cant tell you how many times a vamp escaped my dps burst simply to drag me into other enemies using that escape mechanism. Its not a 100% get away cardbut it doese add alot to your survivability.

As a conclusion i would remove the vampire weaknesses or tone them down and make them targetable while in mist form, the skilltree for vamp is broken and will generate alot of balancing issues.

Niffo

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO wrote: »

Lol, sorcs are not glass cannons becouse they wear light armour, they are glass cannons becouse they lack bunker type defensive abilities. Many of the deadliest dk's out there are full light...yes..u guessed right, its for the sweet passives and armour and its only boosting their survivability

If you can link me 1 working build where a sorc can be on par with other classes in melee range then you have my vote. Let me give you one: build to counter a talon/whiplash spamming dk. Ohh, using some class abilities is a given and i also want flexibility (i.e.: dont force me into shield and pointy stick, that is highly broken/abusable at the moment).

You fail to realize we dont have any reliable self heals only a weak shield and critical surge (that is very easy counterable by simple traiting and everyone with half a brain will do just that since there are so many crit builds in cyrodiil).

1v1 or group play?

Hesperant

xhrit wrote: »

Terminus wrote: »

Every class has an ability that allows them to jump or travel large distances in a short time, or even pull their enemies to them.

You will have to show me what skill templar has that allows them to travel large distances in a short time.

Templar has a very long distance Charge (In Spear class skill tree) that is not an Ultimate and uses little magicka, Considering that with the several weapon based charges and you have a fairly quick moving Templar. I have two, they both use different charge mechanics.

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO

jobo11b16_ESO wrote: »

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO wrote: »

Lol, sorcs are not glass cannons becouse they wear light armour, they are glass cannons becouse they lack bunker type defensive abilities. Many of the deadliest dk's out there are full light...yes..u guessed right, its for the sweet passives and armour and its only boosting their survivability

If you can link me 1 working build where a sorc can be on par with other classes in melee range then you have my vote. Let me give you one: build to counter a talon/whiplash spamming dk. Ohh, using some class abilities is a given and i also want flexibility (i.e.: dont force me into shield and pointy stick, that is highly broken/abusable at the moment).

You fail to realize we dont have any reliable self heals only a weak shield and critical surge (that is very easy counterable by simple traiting and everyone with half a brain will do just that since there are so many crit builds in cyrodiil).

1v1 or group play?

Make it smallscale for the sake of the argument

Tanthul

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO wrote: »

a) Yes, it makes u into a mist that i barely visible in many scenarios (cant see tab target and all). It also makes you untargetable by single target skills, you preaty much have to use aoe cc/dps and thats preaty hard if not in range. Spamming silver bolts might or might not work, it has to be timed very well.

It is very visible unless you have general sight issues. It doesn't make you untargetable by single target skills. Not sure where you got that idea. And Silver Bolts works wonders even if you just spam it. Mist form lasts 4 seconds. Even if you just started spamming Silver Bolts a second after they turn into mist, you are bound to hit them once they come out of it. Even if the proc doesn't fire, they will get knocked-down for sure and its a guaranteed kill unless you do something stupid like walk into Drain Essence range without CC immunity AND you have not been drained in the last 2 minutes (also assuming the vampire has Drain Essense slotted). Seriously it is VERY easy to kill a vampire with or without Mist Form if you know what you are doing. That is unless they are using the specific broken ultimate cost reduction build that allows them to spam Vampire Bats.

b) The 50% increased fire damage and fighter skill line was a stupid move, that skilltree was doomed to be broken for PvP from the start and to that extent mist form can be considered as a counter and one of the best if at it. People become more survivable by getting vampire and adding mist form to their bar. Thats what i said: its one of the best survivability tools out there even with the speed nerf.

No. People do not become more resilient by getting vampire and adding mist to their bar. They become easier to kill unless you are not doing it right. And Elusive Mist is absolutely useless after the nerf. If you think that you become yourself more resilient by taking a 50% vulnerability to fire and an entire skill line that you can only counter for 4 secs with a skill that makes you impossible to heal, use any skill or break a root, you are sadly mistaken..Unless you are thinking that people won't use Fighter's Guild skills and/or fire and roots on you. In that case the argument is moot as lack of opponent skill and knowledge of game mechanics does not equal resilience/survivability. You want to be resilient? Use Immovable (Annulment is also very good) and Barrier ultimate from the Alliance Warfare line. Anyone can get them and they're superior by far. Vampire only has tactical benefits. It doesn't have any survivability is PVP whatsoever unless you are using the ultimate cost reduction broken build and Vampire Bat spam (that's the only thing that needed fixing along with Vampire bats stacking on itself---ultimate cost reduction stacking).

c) From what i understand poison mist is broken and doesnt do any damage (feel free to confirm/infirm). Aither way elusive mist is way more common. I cant tell you how many times a vamp escaped my dps burst simply to drag me into other enemies using that escape mechanism. Its not a 100% get away cardbut it doese add alot to your survivability.

Poison is bugged indeed but it does damage. Just less ticks than it should. If a vampire escaped your DPS burst it was because you were not using the proper skills to counter vampire (get the FG passives and slot even Silver Bolts alone will do when you see one..couple it with Expert Hunter and it's a 200% kill..Use Circle of Protection yourself as your defensive skill or have a group member use it and vampires will just scratch you as your entire group will be capped on armor/sr). And if you followed them into an enemy zerg it is failure to recognize when to pursue and when not to pursue. You would have the same result by pursuing anyone you fail burst on the spot. Overextending is bad.:)

As a conclusion i would remove the vampire weaknesses or tone them down and make them targetable while in mist form, the skilltree for vamp is broken and will generate alot of balancing issues.

They are targetable in mist form. The vampire skilltree is perfectly fine. As I've said countless of times there were only 3 problems with vampires.

1) Ultimate cost reduction stacking. Specifically the Sorcerer build was insanely broken.
2) Vampire bats stacking with each other.
3) Vampire bats still firing while you were in mist form.

Number 1 was fixed in a wrong way that crippled any vampire non-ultimate cost reduction stacking builds while still allowing a huge amount of stacking. This means that now the only viable vampire builds are the broken ones... Number 2 was fixed. Number 3 was ignored entirely. Instead they nerfed the speed bonus on Elusive mist because people did not understand the skill and how to counter it, which made the skill entirely useless. And now the same thing is being asked for Bolt Escape as well. Any change to Bold Escape will also render it useless. And my definition of useless is when you can slot skills that do a much better job at every possible use of a particular skill.

Elusive Mist was good for these uses only:
a) Scouting/Repositioning
b) Baiting people by never going into their range and start running when they decided to get in range to hit you.

With the speed nerf it's not good for these uses anymore. Evasive Maneuvers is much better for both uses now. No reason to slot Elusive Mist at all. Ever.

Tanthul

Oh and since you were asking about a melee sorcerer build that can take a DK head on..here you go:
http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/the-speed-demon-pvp-skirmisher-executer/

Nijjion

Can't really say light armour is glass canon in pvp... I would give a go and say medium armour is glass canon as most damage in pvp is magic... and heavy only gives 21% MR increase when light armor gives 56% increase.

Obviously there are a lot of bow uses in the game and bash spammers but they will soon be dealt with and there's always spells that make up for the loss of armour.

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO

Tanthul wrote: »

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO wrote: »

a) Yes, it makes u into a mist that i barely visible in many scenarios (cant see tab target and all). It also makes you untargetable by single target skills, you preaty much have to use aoe cc/dps and thats preaty hard if not in range. Spamming silver bolts might or might not work, it has to be timed very well.

It is very visible unless you have general sight issues. It doesn't make you untargetable by single target skills. Not sure where you got that idea. And Silver Bolts works wonders even if you just spam it. Mist form lasts 4 seconds. Even if you just started spamming Silver Bolts a second after they turn into mist, you are bound to hit them once they come out of it. Even if the proc doesn't fire, they will get knocked-down for sure and its a guaranteed kill unless you do something stupid like walk into Drain Essence range without CC immunity AND you have not been drained in the last 2 minutes (also assuming the vampire has Drain Essense slotted). Seriously it is VERY easy to kill a vampire with or without Mist Form if you know what you are doing. That is unless they are using the specific broken ultimate cost reduction build that allows them to spam Vampire Bats.

b) The 50% increased fire damage and fighter skill line was a stupid move, that skilltree was doomed to be broken for PvP from the start and to that extent mist form can be considered as a counter and one of the best if at it. People become more survivable by getting vampire and adding mist form to their bar. Thats what i said: its one of the best survivability tools out there even with the speed nerf.

No. People do not become more resilient by getting vampire and adding mist to their bar. They become easier to kill unless you are not doing it right. And Elusive Mist is absolutely useless after the nerf. If you think that you become yourself more resilient by taking a 50% vulnerability to fire and an entire skill line that you can only counter for 4 secs with a skill that makes you impossible to heal, use any skill or break a root, you are sadly mistaken..Unless you are thinking that people won't use Fighter's Guild skills and/or fire and roots on you. In that case the argument is moot as lack of opponent skill and knowledge of game mechanics does not equal resilience/survivability. You want to be resilient? Use Immovable (Annulment is also very good) and Barrier ultimate from the Alliance Warfare line. Anyone can get them and they're superior by far. Vampire only has tactical benefits. It doesn't have any survivability is PVP whatsoever unless you are using the ultimate cost reduction broken build and Vampire Bat spam (that's the only thing that needed fixing along with Vampire bats stacking on itself---ultimate cost reduction stacking).

c) From what i understand poison mist is broken and doesnt do any damage (feel free to confirm/infirm). Aither way elusive mist is way more common. I cant tell you how many times a vamp escaped my dps burst simply to drag me into other enemies using that escape mechanism. Its not a 100% get away cardbut it doese add alot to your survivability.

Poison is bugged indeed but it does damage. Just less ticks than it should. If a vampire escaped your DPS burst it was because you were not using the proper skills to counter vampire (get the FG passives and slot even Silver Bolts alone will do when you see one..couple it with Expert Hunter and it's a 200% kill..Use Circle of Protection yourself as your defensive skill or have a group member use it and vampires will just scratch you as your entire group will be capped on armor/sr). And if you followed them into an enemy zerg it is failure to recognize when to pursue and when not to pursue. You would have the same result by pursuing anyone you fail burst on the spot. Overextending is bad.:)

As a conclusion i would remove the vampire weaknesses or tone them down and make them targetable while in mist form, the skilltree for vamp is broken and will generate alot of balancing issues.

They are targetable in mist form. The vampire skilltree is perfectly fine. As I've said countless of times there were only 3 problems with vampires.

1) Ultimate cost reduction stacking. Specifically the Sorcerer build was insanely broken.
2) Vampire bats stacking with each other.
3) Vampire bats still firing while you were in mist form.

Number 1 was fixed in a wrong way that crippled any vampire non-ultimate cost reduction stacking builds while still allowing a huge amount of stacking. This means that now the only viable vampire builds are the broken ones... Number 2 was fixed. Number 3 was ignored entirely. Instead they nerfed the speed bonus on Elusive mist because people did not understand the skill and how to counter it, which made the skill entirely useless. And now the same thing is being asked for Bolt Escape as well. Any change to Bold Escape will also render it useless. And my definition of useless is when you can slot skills that do a much better job at every possible use of a particular skill.

Elusive Mist was good for these uses only:
a) Scouting/Repositioning
b) Baiting people by never going into their range and start running when they decided to get in range to hit you.

With the speed nerf it's not good for these uses anymore. Evasive Maneuvers is much better for both uses now. No reason to slot Elusive Mist at all. Ever.

Iw tried the spamming silver bolt with multiple groupies doing it and vampire simply laughed and misted away. Silver bolt doesnt work vs spamming mist vampire unless you're really lucky. Only counter is to get in melee and root (if they dont have rapid manuver up) and aoe.

A non-vampire would have died in that sittuation when he misted and walked into the friendly group. Going into mist form allowed them to relocate to safety thus it increased their survivability, i repeat the single target skills do not hit the vamp in mist form so you have to target them by using aoe,

We clearly share different opinions about how vampire class should/should not be so there's no point in arguing over that. I am heavily against the paper-rock-scissors mechanics and thus the hate toward fire weakness and whole tree dedicated to kill vamps/wws and doubt there are good enough arguments to persuade me altough you are free to try.

The whole point of my post in one sentence: "mist form gives a person more survivability then if they were not vampires at all". Not sure whats your stand on this from your answer, id assume you're saying thats not true?

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO

Tanthul wrote: »

Oh and since you were asking about a melee sorcerer build that can take a DK head on..here you go:
http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/the-speed-demon-pvp-skirmisher-executer/

The build you listed, even though it has a 2hander on one of the weapons, is moastly ranged: bow and ranged nukes. Further more, your only melee skill is critical rush and your only damage enhancer for it is rally.

It also has Streak in it...streak is the other morph of bolt escape, it doese exactly the same thing as bolt escape but doese not stun and leave blue ball behind and instead deals damage.

I asked for a way to handle a target at melee range withouth bolt escape and you give me a kiting spec with a single melee skill (gap closer) that also has one of the bolt escape morphs. This just wont do. The build also lacks a critical (surge) element but not gonna go into detail.

EDIT: iw played around and best dps i could squeeze out of critical rush is close to 600hps and that with stamina over the softcap, vs a squishy target. The light atacks do 250 crits and the heavy around 350 crits and are slow as hell. Your only melee root (restraining prison) doese no damage whatsoever and if you go in melee range you preaty much ruin the only advantage it brings you -> keeps the target down so you can range dps it.

If you are trying to prove the sorc can be a viable melee vs the other classes the challenge still stands.

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO

Nijjion wrote: »

Can't really say light armour is glass canon in pvp... I would give a go and say medium armour is glass canon as most damage in pvp is magic... and heavy only gives 21% MR increase when light armor gives 56% increase.

Obviously there are a lot of bow uses in the game and bash spammers but they will soon be dealt with and there's always spells that make up for the loss of armour.

The survivability got little to do with the basic values (resistance/armour), your tankiness comes from the skills you use thus a person in heavy armour wielding sword and shield can be as squishy as a cloth user. Most of the tankier builds iw met are cloth users simply becouse the passives are better. The difference between the melee (by ZoS definition) damage u receive as a 7x light vs 7x heavy is somewhere around 5-10%, depending on circumstances and as you pass the softcap it gets below 1%.

Now if you wanna discuss set bonuses there's plenty of room for that but its got nothing to do with the armour type.

LuckyHermit

I don't agree that bolt escape is over powered at all. As the name of the skill implies, it is a means of escape. If it gets nerfed to the point where it is impossible to escape using it, it would be a completely worthless skill....
I'm sure if it does get nerfed all the vamp DKs out there who are used to rolling over everybody else would cheer that now nobody can escape them alive...

OtarTheMad

Bolt escaped shouldn't be nerfed just because someone you were trying to kill in PvP used it to get away, it's used an intended. Plus it's not like it does not already cost magicka, so if you put more into health than magicka even as a Sorcerer usually by the third or fourth time you escaped... you have no magicka left and have to run and by then everyone has caught up to you and you're dead.

Every class has abilities that others do not and some are unique to that class and it should remain that way otherwise what the heck would be the difference in making a Dragonknight or a Templar if every class had the same abilities just so threads like this do not continue to pop up. Plus it's not like you can't be killed while bolt escaping, does not make you Superman. Has happened to me when I use it and I've seen others "defeated" while using it.

Example: A few days ago (I believe) we (Aldmeri Dominion) were fighting Ebonheart I do believe and the fight spilled into the fields and one of the Sorcerer's was low on health so he tried to Bolt Escape away so problem is that he was still in target range and also Crystal Shard range so me and some archers just took him down even though he tried to bolt escape away.

Same happened to me when I was trying to escape a battle when low on health, I was in range of that DK chain pull ability and just got pulled back into like 4 enemy players and just mangled.

NordJitsu

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Example: A few days ago (I believe) we (Aldmeri Dominion) were fighting Ebonheart I do believe and the fight spilled into the fields and one of the Sorcerer's was low on health so he tried to Bolt Escape away so problem is that he was still in target range and also Crystal Shard range so me and some archers just took him down even though he tried to bolt escape away.

Same happened to me when I was trying to escape a battle when low on health, I was in range of that DK chain pull ability and just got pulled back into like 4 enemy players and just mangled.

We should post videos of things like this.

There's a handful of people in this thread who think that because a fight is agreed upon ahead of time (lol, manufactured) that the mechanics of the game somehow work differently. They want a "live" situation.

Then again I think, who cares?

If they don't nerf Bolt Escape, literally FIVES of people are going to be upset. So it sounds like the best thing to do might just to be ignoring people who call for nerfs as the uneducated whiners they are. Simply not worth the time and effort and we're just legitimizing their nonsense by giving them the time of day.

On the other hand, people should continue responding to people like @gunslinger3440‌ who instead of calling for nerfs was just legitimately asking for advice on how to deal with the skill.

Niffo

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO wrote: »

Lol, sorcs are not glass cannons becouse they wear light armour, they are glass cannons becouse they lack bunker type defensive abilities. Many of the deadliest dk's out there are full light...yes..u guessed right, its for the sweet passives and armour and its only boosting their survivability

If you can link me 1 working build where a sorc can be on par with other classes in melee range then you have my vote. Let me give you one: build to counter a talon/whiplash spamming dk. Ohh, using some class abilities is a given and i also want flexibility (i.e.: dont force me into shield and pointy stick, that is highly broken/abusable at the moment).

You fail to realize we dont have any reliable self heals only a weak shield and critical surge (that is very easy counterable by simple traiting and everyone with half a brain will do just that since there are so many crit builds in cyrodiil).

Sorcerer Build

Travail

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Bolt escaped shouldn't be nerfed just because someone you were trying to kill in PvP used it to get away, it's used an intended. Plus it's not like it does not already cost magicka, so if you put more into health than magicka even as a Sorcerer usually by the third or fourth time you escaped... you have no magicka left and have to run and by then everyone has caught up to you and you're dead.

Every class has abilities that others do not and some are unique to that class and it should remain that way otherwise what the heck would be the difference in making a Dragonknight or a Templar if every class had the same abilities just so threads like this do not continue to pop up. Plus it's not like you can't be killed while bolt escaping, does not make you Superman. Has happened to me when I use it and I've seen others "defeated" while using it.

Example: A few days ago (I believe) we (Aldmeri Dominion) were fighting Ebonheart I do believe and the fight spilled into the fields and one of the Sorcerer's was low on health so he tried to Bolt Escape away so problem is that he was still in target range and also Crystal Shard range so me and some archers just took him down even though he tried to bolt escape away.

Same happened to me when I was trying to escape a battle when low on health, I was in range of that DK chain pull ability and just got pulled back into like 4 enemy players and just mangled.

So, there's absolutely nothing wrong with the ability because "you and some archers" (meaning at least 3 players) could kill a single Sorcerer, and in your second example you were killed by 4 players collectively while attempting to use Bolt Escape.

I don't think anyone here is arguing that 3-4 players working together can't EVER take a Sorc down who uses Bolt Escape. But, two anecdotal examples of a Bolt Escaping Sorc losing when they were incredibly outnumbered doesn't exactly prove everything's fine.

-Travail.

NordJitsu

@Travail‌

Similarly the fact that a sorc gets away from you in a 1v1 doesn't indicate that things are imbalanced.

Its shows:

1. The Escape skill is working as intended
2. You go out played

If you'd had the appropriate build and player skill to counter them, you'd have been able to.

Niffo

NordJitsu wrote: »

Similarly the fact that a sorc gets away from you in a 1v1 doesn't indicate that things are imbalanced.

Its shows:

1. The Escape skill is working as intended
2. You go out played

If you'd had the appropriate build and player skill to counter them, you'd have been able to.

Gotta have the appropriate build to counter one skill, just shows how powerful that one skill really is.

Tintinabula

If ZOS stays TRUTHFUL to mist forms description you'll no longer be able to root them while theyre in mist form...currently poison mist form in pvp is crap.

trimsic_ESO

Every ability should have it's part of weakness so it can be exploited with another ability. At this moment, nothing can stop a sorcerer from spamming his Bolt Escape.

A sorcerer can engage at range and deal a huge pike of damage, then run away in case something went wrong.

In short, they have their cake and eat it too.

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO

jobo11b16_ESO wrote: »

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO wrote: »

Lol, sorcs are not glass cannons becouse they wear light armour, they are glass cannons becouse they lack bunker type defensive abilities. Many of the deadliest dk's out there are full light...yes..u guessed right, its for the sweet passives and armour and its only boosting their survivability

If you can link me 1 working build where a sorc can be on par with other classes in melee range then you have my vote. Let me give you one: build to counter a talon/whiplash spamming dk. Ohh, using some class abilities is a given and i also want flexibility (i.e.: dont force me into shield and pointy stick, that is highly broken/abusable at the moment).

You fail to realize we dont have any reliable self heals only a weak shield and critical surge (that is very easy counterable by simple traiting and everyone with half a brain will do just that since there are so many crit builds in cyrodiil).

Sorcerer Build

Interesting build. Its not a melee build tho, its just a kiting build withouth bolt escape. Very nice use of magnum shot to make up for the lack of mobility, thats something everyone should take note off, im definatly gonna play around with the synergies in your build and see how much fun i can pull out of it

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO

jobo11b16_ESO wrote: »

NordJitsu wrote: »

Similarly the fact that a sorc gets away from you in a 1v1 doesn't indicate that things are imbalanced.

Its shows:

1. The Escape skill is working as intended
2. You go out played

If you'd had the appropriate build and player skill to counter them, you'd have been able to.

Gotta have the appropriate build to counter one skill, just shows how powerful that one skill really is.

The "appropriate build" is having a single skill slotted on one of your bars. You know that bolt escape also takes up one of the sorcs slots right?

EDIT: Now if you are going to point out that for spamming that skill you need to gear for it then i will point out that bolt escape is very magika costly and needs you to do the same.