Area-of-Effect Abilities - Maximum Target Cap Clarification

Fatbelly

The caps simply need to be removed on all abilities, and it had better happen fast.
Now that it is public knowledge that there are caps/everything will be getting caps, the alternative is blob-zergs and AVA dying the same way gw2 did.

I have already seen a couple of blob-zergs just running back and forth spamming aoe and heals, almost unkillable except by a larger blob-zerg or the few working (uncapped) aoe abilities.
It will be ok for a short while longer, but soon enough everyone will have figured it out. Anyone who has seen it in gw2 knows how completely it destroys pvp.

Zirc

Maybe capping isnt the best solution but, lets be real.. a group of vamps using bat swarm on a raid of 40 ppl and wiping them is stupid..

Cutiepie

This change will promote a playstyle which is dumb instead of tactical. Numbers will always win. This combined with the cheap cost of transfering between servers will within 1-2 months make AvA die out. Instead you will have 1 fully capped battleground per realm for the intent on buffing player-power.

With a change like this there is no incentive to actually fight the larger zerg as you will always loose. Its better to just change bg to the server where you are the zerglings and reap the benefits.

This will become VERY problematic when Craglorn is released and serious PVE'ers will always want a fully capped Cyrodiil to beat leaderboard times.

Two changes need to be done. 1. Remove AoE-caps. There is nothing bad with this. Makes small groups be able to compete. 2. Make it superexpensive to change battelground making the underpopulated realms not just jumping ship.

This will make small groups of good pvp-ers changing the future of battlegrounds. Stopping the zergs with well timed AoE in tight locations. Kiting the hive-mind into traps etc. This game has the best pvp since daoc, dont ruin it.

Gisgo

Zirc wrote: »

Maybe capping isnt the best solution but, lets be real.. a group of vamps using bat swarm on a raid of 40 ppl and wiping them is stupid..

I would rather say the 40 ppl are stupid.

Some of the arguments brought on this thread are just... just... i dont know what to say.

soalrism

Sharee wrote: »

You might want the check the total number of votes for that poll.

Over 3000. Real-life election polls where i live usually go with 1000-1200 to get a 95% accuracy(in a country with about 5 million voters).

So while it's a minority compared to the total game population, the results are certainly statistically significant.

no they aren't. and if you come with real-life polls, then compare how THEM they are select (totaly randomized from all people) and compare it with the poll in the ava-forum. you see the difference?

Zolyok

Stop crying Zeni took his decision

If people will stack in blob it's only because now they know about the cap.When you see what are the modified skill, if zeni didn't said anything no one would have noticed.

GW2 like blob are only due to the players who prefer to play blob.

But when i see the skill that have been modified i can't stop my self to think:
All of this drama only for only this change ...

w00_p00eb17_ESO

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cryptoanarchy

Zirc wrote: »

Maybe capping isnt the best solution but, lets be real.. a group of vamps using bat swarm on a raid of 40 ppl and wiping them is stupid..

If you find an unorganized zerg clumped up together and disregarding positioning, they totally deserve to get punished for that. However, certain ridiculous abilities and gear sets need to be individually addressed, instead of just being a godmode leeroy charge op kill everything. THAT is the issue. Bat swarm OP is not a reason to have a global AoE cap.

Upcoming ESO battles:


DAoC without an AoE cap and incredible 1m+ AoE CCs. People learned to deal with it just fine, and that positioning matters:


Choose which one is a more appealing or strategic battlefield.

sniserb16_ESO

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Samiri wrote: »

WHo the h... buys a game singly because they believes they can spam 2 ability in PvP??

Im sorry, but If thats the reason why you bought the game, well I feel really sorry for you.

i bought the game believing it was copying Dark age of camelot, a game that doesn't have AoE caps, and allows a single group to Wipe a zerg which allows smaller population realms to compete.

instead its copying Guild Wars 2, a game that entirely decided based on who has more people...

I aggree. I'm not sure why didn't copy the aoe dmg from daoc. The most damage is done at the center of the spell and quickly reduces its damage if the target is hit far away from the center

Zolyok

Seriously the game changed so much for a difference of 2 damage aoe ?
If ppl can't realise that the only noticable difference is that now they know...
If ppl will play mindless blob it's only because they choose to.

Enkshar

I think that what ppl want is pvp where there is more than just zerging and where tactics are important and make a difference and caping aoe wont favour this.

The game should have mechanics that let small group of ppl hurt zergs if they are not moving aroung with caution. But zerg should be able to wipe these groups once they are aware of them.

Thing like aoe with less dmg the further away the target is from point of origin or limiting the amount u get healed base on thing like max hp or reducing spell area are better solutions that just throwing a limit to targets affected, like 6 (and why 6 and not 4 or 15?). U can even add diminishing returns for CC to avoid skill spamming like talons and it would be a much more accepted solutions than this.

Hope dev start thinking other type of solutions to game problems, cause limiting its just a bad one, specially in a game where u should be free to play the way u like, but sadly when ever there is a potential problem they just add a cap, u can stack too much of a stat, then u get caps to stats so u are force to get other stats, there are bot abusing dungeons boss,then u get a cap on how often u can loot so ppl wont bother getting the rare from boss, now aoe can be op, then cap the amount of ppl affected.

Truth is Im getting tired of so many limitations, starting from limiting the amount of skills i can use at a time down to this. Whats next, cap the amount of ppl that can be standing next to each other to avoid zerging or exploting aoe caps?

Dignam

Marovec wrote: »

If you are relying on a removal of AoE cap to pvp...wow...

Way to try and work skill and coordination into the game. Nah, lets just run in and spam AoE....much better...

Freaking PvP whiners...never happy...

From your comment sounds like you don't pvp so you have no clue. Adding a cap removes skill and all strategy. The way to win in all situations becomes a tight stacked zerg.

Zolyok

How funny ppl didn't even notice that the skill difference between now and after the patch is so minimal

Adding a cap removes skill and all strategy. The way to win in all situations becomes a tight stacked zerg.

The only reason of this, is only because now they know.

Yshaar

Interested in people comparing it to DAoC: Weren't there casting times on the AOE?

Cutiepie

Casting times or not is more dependant on the delve value of the spell rather than the aoe or not. Also daoc had A much more indept Casting system with blocking dmg for others etc

Sharee

ValenWoody wrote: »

Bottom line is that the only conclusion that can legitimately be drawn from a poll like this is the conclusion that is both obvious and useless: "Of the people who took this poll, X% voted 'yes' and Y% voted 'no.'" Nothing about the ESO community at large can be extrapolated from it.

Actually, that is not correct.

What can be legitimately drawn from the poll is the conclusion "Less than 10% of your playerbase supports AOE caps".

The fact that only people with a strong opinion on the matter took the poll does not change anything about that, because not taking the poll is the same as voting 'i do not care either way'

Lowbei

I think the most important thing to notice here, is that of a massive sampling of 3000 players, 88% opposed this change. You saw this, and instead of changing the notes, you sent Jess Folsom to lie to us again that caps were just somehow forgotten on many important spells that combat zergs.

The community does NOT want caps, as clearly shown by the poll. If you dont trust your own official forums for player opinion, then why should we trust you to provide a quality mmo for us?

This shows us that you do not care what your community wants, its as simple as that. When you lose our faith, you lose our subscriptions.

The_Emproer

Theorycraft, theorycraft, theorycraft. That's all I'm seeing in this thread.

Truth is, we've been PvPing with an AoE cap all this time, and it's been just peachy. People want to make a ridiculous comparison with GW2 as if ESO and GW2 are carbon copies of each other. How much larger is Cyrodiil than the WvW area in GW2? The sheer size of Cyrodiil alone hurts large zerg gameplay. Additionally, while you can theoretically stack up and mitigate AoE's in a zerg - the very definition of a zerg is a large uncoordinated mass of players - good luck getting them all to stack up nice and neat, exactly where you want them.

I think people should calm down about this issue and see it play out. It doesn't
matter if you think your experience in GW2 makes you qualified to speak on how an aoe cap affects this game; because your GW2 experience has no bearing whatsoever on this game. PvP has been fine with the AoE cap being relatively unknown, and will be fine now that it's exposed.

Sweetmilk

Hmm, where's the changes to Bat Swarm? The perma mist/bat swarm exploit is getting out of hand. Please look into it Zenimax.

RivenEsq

What people don't get is there wasn't an AoE cap, and certainly not on the abilities that were being used to be most effective. If there were, people would have certainly noticed at some point. You are using a blatant lie from a ZOS employee and using it as "everyone is so stupid there was already a cap lololol". There is no cap in the game currently other than one on heals.

Once again, BALANCING is what should be done and not an AoE cap. GW2 and this game are very close together, especially once there is an AoE cap. There is no targeted healing, basically just AoE group heals with limited targets hit. Same as GW2. The map does have the potential to discourage gameplay, but when there is a single blob of 60-100 that is taking objectives, the only way to combat that is with equal numbers. One group abusing this mechanic is enough to force the other 2 factions to do the same.

Just look at GW2. Groups used to turtle in groups of 30-40. Then one server decided that it was going to do nothing but have their entire map on a single commander. They had 80-100 people in a blob. The only way to fight against that was by having a 80-100 person blob of your own. A faction can have 3-4 of those blobs without reaching the population cap, meaning that "the size of the map" doesn't matter as much when the proportion of players to map area doesn't make it so that the entire map is in one spot and they can still be in a huge blob.

There is a general lack of organization on campaigns still. So when coordinated groups wreck less coordinated groups, it's perfectly fine by me even though I think things such as Pulsar and Bat Swarm need balancing. Now, when these coordinated groups start showing up with bigger and bigger numbers, you're going to have coordinated megazergs that will stack and will listen. And then, suddenly, you have Guild Wars 2 all over again, no matter how much you insist otherwise. If you think differently, you clearly don't understand balance and why those things happened in GW2 not just because of small maps, but because there was an AoE cap and you needed numbers to fight numbers. There is no arguing that.

richardb16_ESO37

I love how all the pro PvPers are in outcry out about this. It has been in game since day one and pvp was not massive zerg vs zerg, there was no balling and small groups could still wipe big groups. Spamming one button does not make you a good PVPer.

cryptoanarchy

My post on the previous page since apparently people didn't read anything.

cryptoanarchy wrote: »

The "it was always on Live" reasoning sucks and does not justify adding any sort of AoE cap. Zergs didn't fight stacked because no one knew about an implemented AoE cap to exploit in the first place. There's already a video showing its effectiveness in organized groups. Its potency is no longer a dreaded horror that's suspected to possibly happen; it's real.

It's only a matter of time until organized groups start incorporating that (especially after the last few skills with no cap are "fixed"), and pugs learn. The boring meta of GW2 didn't happen instantly after adding the cap either, but now every pug knows the drill to stay in the mega-blob to stay alive.

I really doubt many ex-GW2 or DAoC players would have bought this game if they knew of the AoE cap. Camelot Unchained, don't fail me now..

KerinKor

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Zargorius wrote: »

Well, looks like the era of siege weapons everywhere is about to start. Thanks for the info, this should have been made clear before the launch though.

Of course it should of been made more clear before launch they intended an aoe cap.

But then they wouldn't of gotten a lot of money from people who bought their gaming believing there were no AoE caps in place.

LMAO, because anyone with common sense will cancel their sub. if their AOE is capped.

Please, at least try to come up with a sensible objection.

ularis

Very , Vey good thing is that AoE Cap no more games with brainless 1 button.

Mothanos

Was in Cyrodiil last night and already raids stacking into a ball searching for other raids.
It was hilarious to see AoE / Synergy's blowing oponents up in 1 second and wiping 50 to 100 people in seconds.
While it was fun to see and be part of it will damage this mmo in the long run.
ESO is asking a nice fee each month while there are also other options for free.

Time will tell how this pans out but i can only gues that no mmo with sub had great succes.
I wanted ESO to be that mmo to break that pattern but it seems to be not the case.
Lets wait and see how much damage veteran ranks and AoE caps are doing in both the pve and pvp side of the game.
My gues is the bom drops after the free month and the month after that.
Huge drop off incomming
I hope i am wrong, but my spider senses are going nuts as at this point this mmo is not sub worthy in this state.

Zargorius

"Game Time Remaining

You have 6 days of game time remaining."

Your move Zenimax. I hope they at least have the decency to asnwering the people's concerns.

torstenb16_ESO8

no AoE CAp please. Gw2 was destroyed, after they insert an aoe cap.I played a water mage and the healing was so *** low, that i had the great large healing field, after the aoe cap was insert into gw2 my water mage was destroyed,the healing field was reduced to 5 or something.Also to play a healer was senseless. Same here, i came here after i saw ,hey it is possible to heal with a large field.So i/we will leave this game when an AoE cap will add to this game. It is always the same, people play bad and then they go into a forum and then a cap will insert into a game, and game is destroyed, also some classes.

Mephane

Zolyok wrote: »

Seriously the game changed so much for a difference of 2 damage aoe ?
If ppl can't realise that the only noticable difference is that now they know...
If ppl will play mindless blob it's only because they choose to.

No, the game changes because before this entire issue came up, there was the general assumption that AoE skills were uncapped unless specified otherwise (e.g. those "heal yourself and up to two targets"). Players behaved accordingly, assuming that AoE is uncapped, and therefore you cannot glob up in a zergball. The limited feedback of the ingame UI did its own part in masking the already existing AoE caps.

The game was played as if caps were in place. Since people did naturally spread out, they did hardly have the chance to notice the absence of caps. But now the cat is out of the bag, Zenimax effectively added AoE caps to the metagame by introducing the very knowledge of their existence.

ularis

I dont beliwe PPL are whinning Again about game because dev team want make game more challenging go play wow or this gw2 stfu.

KerinKor

ularis wrote: »

I dont beliwe PPL are whinning.

What 'whining' are you referring to? The complaints about 'hidden' caps are valid IMO.