Do you think there should be an AoE cap?

Noobie

No

No in PvE aoe is needed to deal with all the adds as a tank, in PvP they need to fix each skill individually. I think all AoE's should be channeled base personally that way its easier for people to stop the damage. Especially if a DK runs in and roots 10 people then pops swarm.

lao

Yes

Mephane wrote: »

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

GW2 had a AOE cap for a reason, and this game needs one as well. It is a good change.

GW2 PvP was ruined by the AoE cap.

GW2 PvP was ruined from the first day of beta.

valkaneer2b14_ESO

No

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

People who are saying they will leave won't leave. It is just a empty threat. Game balance happens all the time, and this is one of them things that need balance. I'm glad polls like this won't change their minds.

This game turns into a zerg fest I'm done, I will go back to Wow. Wow has better PvE so if this game's PvP turns to Zerg why play it? When my 3 months sub is over then I will take my money elsewhere if this is going to become what I hate.

Minack

No

chrho83rwb17_ESO wrote: »

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

GW2 had a AOE cap for a reason, and this game needs one as well. It is a good change.

Thanks for not sharing this reason for us. Many people quit GW2 because of this change.

Don't argue with a mouth breather.

Kingslayer

No

valkaneer2b14_ESO wrote: »

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

Devotion wrote: »

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

Sorry but AOE cap is good for balance. It needs to happen

balance? lol wait what? more numbers win is not my idea of balance.

That sounds good to me? A army should win. No mmo is good at balance small scale pvp. So this is a fine change.

Just because an army shows up does not mean it should win. 300 Spartans, and 1000 pesants hold off a 1 million man army for 3 days due to smart thinking and tactics. Learn history bud.

tbf it was 300 plus like 5200 trained hoplites from various city states. The peasants were the persians in this case, but ya totally right thats why i liked this game it allowed for smart large scale pvp. Now it will be a monkey fest.

1111scornneb18_ESO

No

No ZoS stop doing such terrible things pls THX
dont listen on crybabys all the time.... it starts get boring...
You have DAoC PPL on board PROFIT from them!

The_Drexill

No

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

People who are saying they will leave won't leave. It is just a empty threat. Game balance happens all the time, and this is one of them things that need balance. I'm glad polls like this won't change their minds.

Yeah, you're probably right... that's how every single non-WoW mmo works right? People threaten, but they never really leave. That's why all these MMO's are doing so well still.

shebali

No

NO! Please don't make this change. I hated this about GW2 and this was the biggest problem vs large numbers. Please keep DAoC/ WAR type of aoe system.

Naelyan

Mixed feelings.
Something needs to be done to prevent aoe stacking from being the pvp and pve "metagame". brainless zergs don't require skill but neither does stacking aoe ultimates.
Diminishing returns and tweaking abilities would probably be a better solution for most situations though.

Zarec

Yes

I said yes but here is why I say yes.

yes In pve I think we should have a limit on targets effected by AoE spells to push for a more diverse group specially in groups of 8-24.

In pvp...I'm on the fence on.

I have always been and always will be of the mind set that you should balance PVP and PVE separately as you inevitably screw over one when you balance for the other. Too many games have tried to balance both by only balancing one and it almost always effects the other negatively. So this question is rather misleading as it is focused overall. What I think people want is to have PVP and PVE balanced separately which is something I think we need to push for so we don't have issues like this happen in the future.

lumino

No

I understand the wish to nerf AoE in its current form, but simply limiting the amount of targets is a kneejerk reaction and will only tip the scales in favor of zerging completely.

Kraven

Yes

There was and is on MOST AoE skills a cap. In fact some skills specifically the NB Drain Power the cap is increased via the morph. Manifistation of Terror Cap is increased via morph. Just because the tool tip didn't spell it out for you doesn't mean there was no cap. Or does one standard placed in the middle of a raid root 24 people? Do they need to change skills individually? Yes. Should one person standing in a choke point be able to AoE root and health siphon 200? No, that's just stupid.

Currently DK has an ability that hits targets all around you healing you for the number of people it damages, Vampire Ultimate hits targets all around you healing you for the number of targets it hits. Ultimate reduction allows for this Ultimate to be reduced to a ridiculously low number. Mist Form Vamp takes 70% less damage from all sources but allows Bat swarm Ultimate to heal you. There are several videos of Emp Vamps holding off over whelming forces.

While I agree the Emperor should be hard to kill that is still a broken mechanic. That's why you see so many DKs and Vamps in Cyrodiil. You also have the leechers, who don't do anything at all but throw one or two AoE hit a ton of people and then die. They die because they are crap but they still get credit for every person they hit if the zerg behind them makes the kill.

Those that don't know or haven't seen it abused want to jump up and say "Silver Bolts! Fire Damage!" but I want to see the actual numbers. How many people per campaign are Vamps? This should be used as an indicator of just how busted DK + Vamp + unlimited AoE really is.

PvE wise these same people are AoE grinding with absolutely no fear of death, They're soloing Anchors with absolutely no skill involved. I've solo'd an Anchor, even have a video of it but anyone who watches that video should notice it takes A LOT of player skill to do so. Unlimited AoE removes this skill factor. In a skill based game anything that removes the need for skill should be changed.

The ones who exploit it are the ones who are saying "Hey community! Don't let them change this!" and they make it sound almost convincing. Causing outrage in the people who don't understand it is an exploit to add to the number of voices raised. Don't be fooled.

It's a broken mechanic. Don't let the exploiters tell you differently, it is abused on a constant basis. Remove the ability for it to be so over the top abused and exploited and I'd be all for no cap but until then...

Misslol

No

Moonraker wrote: »

Until you split out the argument between PvP and PVE, then a Yes/ No option doesn't offer sufficient choice.

Why not add 'PvP to the title and then it is clearer?

Denying the developers options in game balancing will only hurt the game. Also, it should be possible to enable/ disable certain limitations when in Cyrodiil, for example.

The thread is in Alliance War>>Alliance War Tactics subforum... Are u planning to do an alliance war against mobs or what? :disagree:

Niffo

No

This is a poorly thought out change. The issue wasn't the number of targets hit, it was certain abilities, passives, and classes combined that made things too strong. Some abilities are just too powerful in their current state and most of them belong to Dragonknights. Aoe caps is the wrong direction to take the game, Guild Wars 2 has them but they don't have a subscription fee, so why am I going to pay for the same pvp I can get for free? Fix the abilities and classes, reflective scale, dragon talons, and devouring swarm, and ultimate cost reductions.

Kraven

Yes

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

People who are saying they will leave won't leave. It is just a empty threat. Game balance happens all the time, and this is one of them things that need balance. I'm glad polls like this won't change their minds.

This 100 times. Look at Entropy Rising for example many higher ups in it swore up and down they were going to cancel pre-order with the API changes. Unfortunately they didn't.

tsurotu

No

ruzlb16_ESO wrote: »

This is basically a knee-jerk reaction to the vamp ultimate thing wiping zergs. I've heard endless qq about vamp ulti spam, and when I told them to perhaps try spreading out or using anti-vamp skills, I was called an elitist. Frankly, I don't even think the vamp thing is overpowered - if you bunch up, AOE should kill you. Full stop. That's why real armies don't mass up in the face of artillery bombardment. The zerg had emerged as the major strategy over the last 2-3 weeks, and the vamp ultimate build came as a response to it - one on one, against a player with any real FG skill point investment, the vamp is toast. Of course, next time you're in a zerg group, check how many people have actually got Silver Bolts or Slayer - you may find that the people shouting loudest for nerfs are the ones who have gone 49/0/0, wear entirely mana gear, and have no skill points in any counters, Most of them aren't even aware you can break cc rather than standing put, or have 4 crafting skills maxed out and expect to be on a par with players who have invested their points in passives and morphs.
Uncapped AOE counters zergs, and without it there is no counter. Small organised groups wiping large disorganised groups is a sign of healthy PvP, as is the best zerg-wiping build being very vulnerable to 1v1. Sure, a few things needed tweaking - a 200+ ultimate skill should never be reduced to 40 or so; mist form should block all healing rather than allowing the AOE life steal to work; ultimates probably should not generate ultimate. But the actual tactic should not be removed, just made more difficult.
Not that it's as easy as we often hear. I can cast impulse 8 times before I'm oom; that won't kill a player with >1600 health. And if you don't have 1600 health in PvP when your softcap is 2500, then the problem is with your build, not my abilities. I can stack up with a couple of other players for big kills this way, but we need to co-ordinate properly and render ourselves vulnerable to mass AOE as well. If I'm spamming impulse in the middle of 16 players, then that's 16 guys who can hit me with impulse as well. The counters exist in-game, and those demanding nerfs simply don't want to use them; they have the 6 skills they like and expect those to be fine for use against everything.
As for the PvE argument, I kinda expect Craglorn mobs to have enough health to stand up to 12 200-ish AOEs for more than a few seconds, and to annihilate any non-tank in a single hit, so I don't see the idea of dragging them into an AOE spot working very well regardless of a cap.

You have a few good points there, and youre right about the vamp spam - people arent using anti-vamp stuff enough - but then again, they are WAY too strong. With the emperor passives its just insane - one vamp can wipe a zerg - and when theyre built specifically to do it, even spamming silver bolts isn't enough to bring them down. That shouldn't be.

The craglorn point is even worse, because this is supposedly applying to AOE healing - and with the craglorn 12 man dungeons, putting a 6 person cap to aoe skills means only half the raid can be effected by an AOE healer - which seems to be counter productive.

tl;dr yes youre right there are counters, but as it stands the vamp-emp is insane and needs to be hit with a nerf bat. They need to nerf the specific problem - not the symptom

Oblongship

No

1052 against 102 for...

ZoS pay attention to this please.

Putok

No

Not just no, HELL NO.

If there are specific AOE abilities like bat swarm that become too powerful under certain conditions (virtually nil ultimate cost in the middle of a huge group of enemies), nerf those specific abilities under those specific conditions.

Healing is probably even a bigger concern for me than damage. I HATE, HATE, HATE "smart heals". Why? Because they're usually not smart, they're usually stupid. I do not trust the server to decide which 6 people I want to heal.

Zarec

Yes

tsurotu wrote: »

ruzlb16_ESO wrote: »

This is basically a knee-jerk reaction to the vamp ultimate thing wiping zergs. I've heard endless qq about vamp ulti spam, and when I told them to perhaps try spreading out or using anti-vamp skills, I was called an elitist. Frankly, I don't even think the vamp thing is overpowered - if you bunch up, AOE should kill you. Full stop. That's why real armies don't mass up in the face of artillery bombardment. The zerg had emerged as the major strategy over the last 2-3 weeks, and the vamp ultimate build came as a response to it - one on one, against a player with any real FG skill point investment, the vamp is toast. Of course, next time you're in a zerg group, check how many people have actually got Silver Bolts or Slayer - you may find that the people shouting loudest for nerfs are the ones who have gone 49/0/0, wear entirely mana gear, and have no skill points in any counters, Most of them aren't even aware you can break cc rather than standing put, or have 4 crafting skills maxed out and expect to be on a par with players who have invested their points in passives and morphs.
Uncapped AOE counters zergs, and without it there is no counter. Small organised groups wiping large disorganised groups is a sign of healthy PvP, as is the best zerg-wiping build being very vulnerable to 1v1. Sure, a few things needed tweaking - a 200+ ultimate skill should never be reduced to 40 or so; mist form should block all healing rather than allowing the AOE life steal to work; ultimates probably should not generate ultimate. But the actual tactic should not be removed, just made more difficult.
Not that it's as easy as we often hear. I can cast impulse 8 times before I'm oom; that won't kill a player with >1600 health. And if you don't have 1600 health in PvP when your softcap is 2500, then the problem is with your build, not my abilities. I can stack up with a couple of other players for big kills this way, but we need to co-ordinate properly and render ourselves vulnerable to mass AOE as well. If I'm spamming impulse in the middle of 16 players, then that's 16 guys who can hit me with impulse as well. The counters exist in-game, and those demanding nerfs simply don't want to use them; they have the 6 skills they like and expect those to be fine for use against everything.
As for the PvE argument, I kinda expect Craglorn mobs to have enough health to stand up to 12 200-ish AOEs for more than a few seconds, and to annihilate any non-tank in a single hit, so I don't see the idea of dragging them into an AOE spot working very well regardless of a cap.

You have a few good points there, and youre right about the vamp spam - people arent using anti-vamp stuff enough - but then again, they are WAY too strong. With the emperor passives its just insane - one vamp can wipe a zerg - and when theyre built specifically to do it, even spamming silver bolts isn't enough to bring them down. That shouldn't be.

The craglorn point is even worse, because this is supposedly applying to AOE healing - and with the craglorn 12 man dungeons, putting a 6 person cap to aoe skills means only half the raid can be effected by an AOE healer - which seems to be counter productive.

tl;dr yes youre right there are counters, but as it stands the vamp-emp is insane and needs to be hit with a nerf bat. They need to nerf the specific problem - not the symptom

I have to ask..why is it no one uses negate magic against these players....we have plenty of sorcs being played so why are they not preparing spells proactively?

Layenem

No

I LOVED Tera's AoE solution: Your AoE did it's maximum damage on up to TWO enemy targets and then scaled down 5-10% in damage for every target after that (I can't remember the actual % scale so I'll go with the 10% number).

So 100% damage on the first two targets, then 90% damage on the third, then 81% on the fourth, then 72.9 on the fifth, then 65.61 on the sixth and so on.

This allowed people who actually enjoyed taking on multiple mobs to do so but made them consider the cost of doing so as their damage wasn't just going to destroy everything.

Although I don't understand why the developers can't just balance what we all know to be a far superior AoE to any other AoE in the first damn place!

valkaneer2b14_ESO

No

Naelyan wrote: »

Mixed feelings.
Something needs to be done to prevent aoe stacking from being the pvp and pve "metagame". brainless zergs don't require skill but neither does stacking aoe ultimates.
Diminishing returns and tweaking abilities would probably be a better solution for most situations though.

No, AoE stacking ults on you, is what you get if you play stupid. 100 people standing in one spot deserves to die.

lex.derioneb17_ESO

No

Enough lazy "fixes", for God sake! You already "fixed", dungeon xp, pvp xp, at this rate you'll "fix" the game to oblivion very fast, and don't think that deadra dwelling there are too keen on paying a sub fee!

tsurotu

No

Zarec wrote: »

I have to ask..why is it no one uses negate magic against these players....we have plenty of sorcs being played so why are they not preparing spells proactively?

good question... Im a templar

valkaneer2b14_ESO

No

Kraven wrote: »

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

People who are saying they will leave won't leave. It is just a empty threat. Game balance happens all the time, and this is one of them things that need balance. I'm glad polls like this won't change their minds.

This 100 times. Look at Entropy Rising for example many higher ups in it swore up and down they were going to cancel pre-order with the API changes. Unfortunately they didn't.

Unlike them, I am very serious, I have a good guild to go back to in Wow, with a good rule set. Nothing is keeping me here accept the game based on its' Merritt. At this point the only thing of real merritt in this game is it's PvP. There is no long game in it's PvE. So if they break PvP why stay? I can get the same in GW2 for free.

avidday

No

Zarec wrote: »

I have to ask..why is it no one uses negate magic against these players....we have plenty of sorcs being played so why are they not preparing spells proactively?

Negate magic is also AOE and will be completely worthless if it only hits 6 targets. I would consider that to be a lot less "ultimate" than an Ultimate should be.

morf87

No

No
To nerf all aoe when its clearly only a select few skills that are causing problems is crazy, all this does is cause more balance problems down the line.
You dont see ppl crying about "Volley" which is an aoe bow skill or its morph"scorched earth".
I have been on the receiving end of a single VR level player wiping 20 or so players, its always the same skills used/combined with other skills/passives etc and the same CC chain lock.
Adjust a few skills and sort out how CC immunity works( roll dodge out of talons only to not be immune and to be talon again sucks..) and that will sort out these problems or atleast go a long way to achieving balance.

rophez_ESO

No

AOE caps break my immersion. Why would 6 certain targets out of 20 be affected by a wall or burst of fire, etc?

alexion891ub17_ESO

No

No
Putting an aoe cap will just encourage zerging

Agriope

No

AoE cap killed tactical gameplay in Guild Wars 2. One of the main selling points of this game to me was the fact that there is not an AoE cap.

valkaneer2b14_ESO

No

avidday wrote: »

Zarec wrote: »

I have to ask..why is it no one uses negate magic against these players....we have plenty of sorcs being played so why are they not preparing spells proactively?

Negate magic is also AOE and will be completely worthless if it only hits 6 targets. I would consider that to be a lot less "ultimate" than an Ultimate should be.

QFT!!!!!!

Don't forget 6 *random* targets at that.