Rapid gear decay

Guldendraak

I have to agree with some of the sentiments expressed here.. If the rate of decay is as intended.. End Game is possibly going to be too expensive for many players to partake in..

Agobi

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

After thoroughly testing the armor decay system, we found that everything is working as it was designed. However, we did find that there were a small number of cases that may be generating more decay than was originally intended, and we will continue to investigate those situations. We’ve also seen your feedback and do agree with you that the durability was too severe under some conditions, such as while you’re playing in a group, and are testing these changes on the PTS now.

So your intentions are to :

1.drive players to buy gold?

2. Make players so fed up they quit playing?


If so,good job,you are right on target with this decaymechanic o.O

Singular

Ur-Quan wrote: »

Anarchos404 wrote: »

Well that's it then...

Thanks for the answer I guess but...
It still changes nothing, if we really loose durability from "gaining exp" something, somewhere along the initial game crunching went terribly wrong.

Loosing durability from (1) Dying, (2) Getting hit and (3) to some degree wear and tear normal usage is just fine.

But actually from gaining exp?
Exploration? Crafting? Handing in quests?
That is...

From a game balance standpoint (ie. to make sure things are fair across the classes and combat roles), I don't have any fundamental problem with the idea of losing durability from gaining xp. I do think that should only apply to xp gained from combat rather than all sources of xp, but I don't have any problem with the basic idea.

Losing durability because of gaining xp is utterly silly. Now we have to take off our all our gear when we hand in quests???

UrQuan

Singular wrote: »

Ur-Quan wrote: »

Anarchos404 wrote: »

Well that's it then...

Thanks for the answer I guess but...
It still changes nothing, if we really loose durability from "gaining exp" something, somewhere along the initial game crunching went terribly wrong.

Loosing durability from (1) Dying, (2) Getting hit and (3) to some degree wear and tear normal usage is just fine.

But actually from gaining exp?
Exploration? Crafting? Handing in quests?
That is...

From a game balance standpoint (ie. to make sure things are fair across the classes and combat roles), I don't have any fundamental problem with the idea of losing durability from gaining xp. I do think that should only apply to xp gained from combat rather than all sources of xp, but I don't have any problem with the basic idea.

Losing durability because of gaining xp is utterly silly. Now we have to take off our all our gear when we hand in quests???

Yeah, because it's not like I said something along the lines of "I do think that should only apply to xp gained from combat rather than all sources of xp" or anything. Oh wait, I did say exactly that. And it's right there in what you quoted. Huh, weird.

starkerealm

Ur-Quan wrote: »

Singular wrote: »

Ur-Quan wrote: »

Anarchos404 wrote: »

Well that's it then...

Thanks for the answer I guess but...
It still changes nothing, if we really loose durability from "gaining exp" something, somewhere along the initial game crunching went terribly wrong.

Loosing durability from (1) Dying, (2) Getting hit and (3) to some degree wear and tear normal usage is just fine.

But actually from gaining exp?
Exploration? Crafting? Handing in quests?
That is...

From a game balance standpoint (ie. to make sure things are fair across the classes and combat roles), I don't have any fundamental problem with the idea of losing durability from gaining xp. I do think that should only apply to xp gained from combat rather than all sources of xp, but I don't have any problem with the basic idea.

Losing durability because of gaining xp is utterly silly. Now we have to take off our all our gear when we hand in quests???

Yeah, because it's not like I said something along the lines of "I do think that should only apply to xp gained from combat rather than all sources of xp" or anything. Oh wait, I did say exactly that. And it's right there in what you quoted. Huh, weird.

I think he might have been agreeing with you...

dr_zed

This is the ONLY, the ONLY thing you can lose in this game: money at the repair shop. Nothing else. It's a easy game and you complain about it anyway. Go play one of those games that when you die you lose all your inventory, 4 hours of experiencie and skill experience, and may lose some of your equiped gear as well.. AND other people can kill you everywhere. Yes, go play some tibia and you will stop whinning about the repair fee of this game in 5 minutes.

Moderator Edit: removed insulting language.

Agobi

dr_zed wrote: »

This is the ONLY, the ONLY thing you can lose in this game: money at the repair shop. Nothing else. It's a easy game and you complain about it anyway. Go play one of those games that when you die you lose all your inventory, 4 hours of experiencie and skill experience, and may lose some of your equiped gear as well.. AND other people can kill you everywhere. Yes, go play some tibia and you will stop whinning about the repair fee of this game in 5 minutes.

So..what you are saying is you want this game to fail?

Moderator Edit: edited quoted comment.

starkerealm

dr_zed wrote: »

This is the ONLY, the ONLY thing you can lose in this game: money at the repair shop. Nothing else. It's a easy game and you complain about it anyway. Go play one of those games that when you die you lose all your inventory, 4 hours of experiencie and skill experience, and may lose some of your equiped gear as well.. AND other people can kill you everywhere. Yes, go play some tibia and you will stop whinning about the repair fee of this game in 5 minutes.

I'm going to have to go with... "no." The system's bugged. I'm happy it's either working as intended for you... or, ya know, screwing you with your pants on... that works too. But, for those who are seeing repair bills that force them to quest naked. Yeah, no, "learn to play" just isn't a valid answer. But, uh... hey, if you don't like the community here, there's always The Secret World or Dark Souls 2.

Moderator Edit: edited quoted comment.

MasterSpatula

dr_zed wrote: »

This is the ONLY, the ONLY thing you can lose in this game: money at the repair shop. Nothing else. It's a easy game and you complain about it anyway. Go play one of those games that when you die you lose all your inventory, 4 hours of experiencie and skill experience, and may lose some of your equiped gear as well.. AND other people can kill you everywhere. Yes, go play some tibia and you will stop whinning about the repair fee of this game in 5 minutes.

There's always one....

Moderator Edit: edited quoted comment.

Bromburak

DDemon wrote: »

Agreed, I think this is an attempt from ESO to stop people from grinding mobs, as the gear just wears down way too fast right now....

Gear wears down fast but drop rates for new armor is very high so your theory is not really the case.

If you grind AOE in non Vet content you will get 2-3 sets or at least similar armor you are wearing already and you just change armor instead repairing them.

Guess why bots farming random trash in "normal" zones or only in some public dungeons. Because some of the spawns and drop ratio are perfect for farming.
(not only boss related)

Of course they are not using those spots for equipping stuff but they use it for auto mail and auto extracting because of perfect drop ratios.

Players know those spots, zenimax doesnt (at least not all of them).
Reason is that many players will not report the "critical" farm spots because any change would not only affect bots and will result in disadvantages for players as well. So Zenimax need to learn from bots and other players first why they do certain things in different areas.

However if you grind the right spots you dont repair you just change your equipment!

redwoodtreesprite

Except that if you are not someone who can grind aoe, and even 2 mobs are trouble, and if you keep getting the wrong kinds of armor like I did when questing in level 10-18 content, you might NOT get plenty of armor to equip.

Many lower levels are suffering because of this decay problem.

Bromburak

Except that if you are not someone who can grind aoe

If you a nighblade you would pick single targets from mass mobs and down them faster than any aoe spec class and actually take less armor decay because less mobs hitting you in a shorter period of time.

Something many players dont understand because AOE is just a safe way to farm but it takes longer to.

But it makes no sense going into detail how to farm perfect drop ratio spots because its far off topic already.

wyrdob16_ESO

So the current system actively punishes a player for gaining exp. It hardly punishes you for dieing, which would be a follow-up of bad play. It punishes you for playing at all, wether good or bad does not matter. What is the design idea behind this please? What do you attempt to achieve in regards to interesting gameplay with this mechanic? Please explain.

ms.voorheesb16_ESO

Can i have some cheese with that whine?

But serious, people need to stop whinge about everything and understand why they have things like this in-game.

Without a "gold sink" the inflation in-game will go right through the roof in no time.
And the armor repair bill is one of the thing that you always have to spend money on through out the whole game.

And if you have problem paying your repair cost you are doing something terrible wrong. For getting gold by selling loot, quest or killing monsters is not hard in this game. And than i have not even mentions trading.

Or maybe this game not suits you? Because many out there besides me want a game that is not giving you everything for free and at lest try to keep a sustainable inflation in-game.

And the only easy way to get gold OUT of the game is to force players pay gold to NPC.

Blackwolfe5

There are good gold sinks and there are bad gold sinks. The current system is not the good kind. It's fine having repair costs, but the costs should be better balanced.

Tankqull

the system is completly broken - recently i helped a guild member to grind his last few k-xp for his lvlup. when we were done his and my equip was completly worn down but the difference was he was not attacked even once the whole time, so equip is dmged either by just beeing in combat killing mobs or your own attacks wich in both cases is rather stupid.

starkerealm

ms.voorheesb16_ESO wrote: »

Can i have some cheese with that whine?

Your wish has been granted; when you log in, your very own, personal, hostile, Vampire Knight will hunt you down and murder you constantly with batswarm. Enjoy.

ms.voorheesb16_ESO wrote: »

But serious, people need to stop whinge about everything and understand why they have things like this in-game.

Yeah, screw the players suffering from bugs! They don't deserve to play in my perfect bug free sandbox... wait...

ms.voorheesb16_ESO wrote: »

Without a "gold sink" the inflation in-game will go right through the roof in no time.

Because, as we all know, the only reason there are horses and bank upgrades in the game is to give you a reason to give the goldsellers money, right?

ms.voorheesb16_ESO wrote: »

And the armor repair bill is one of the thing that you always have to spend money on through out the whole game.

No, actually, a lot of players have discovered that spending money on armor, especially when it degrades so quickly... for them, not for you, because you're a special snowflake, is to just go around naked. Which kinda defeats the purpose of actually getting armor as drops.

Also, because horses, bank upgrades, and bags... those were never intended to be purchased by players with gold, right?

ms.voorheesb16_ESO wrote: »

And if you have problem paying your repair cost you are doing something terrible wrong. For getting gold by selling loot, quest or killing monsters is not hard in this game. And than i have not even mentions trading.

I believe the word you were looking for was "terribly", not "terrible."

Also, it's distinctly possible the game is doing something, in your words, "terrible wrong." Though, I mean, if you're sure that all faults lie with the players and not the game, please, go find any thread with "motes in the moonlight" or "the three crowns" in it's title, and loudly, proudly declare that the game is truly without fault, and that all of the issues within are the result of players who don't know how to play and are "whinging" about wanting something for nothing.

ms.voorheesb16_ESO wrote: »

Or maybe this game not suits you? Because many out there besides me want a game that is not giving you everything for free and at lest try to keep a sustainable inflation in-game.

Yeah... that's not how negation works. In English anyway. But, that aside, it is truly unthinkable that an issue, described by ZOS as "rare" doesn't affect you. How cruel that it left you out, floundering, in functional water. And how blessed we are to have your opinion that "everything's already cool, and it's all your fault for suffering from a bug"... no, wait, that wasn't quite it, was it?

ms.voorheesb16_ESO wrote: »

And the only easy way to get gold OUT of the game is to force players pay gold to NPC.

Right, because there are no mounts, such a tragedy.

Bromburak

wyrdob16_ESO wrote: »

So the current system actively punishes a player for gaining exp.

Not at all, because the options how you make money are insane quick.
I don't see anyone complaining about that part ...

So what are you trying to tell me, solving only things that might hurt on the first view but leaving the advantage?

Sorry dude, your claim has nothing todo with balancing at all.

Blackwolfe5

So, because some people make alot of money, others should be punished?

Agobi

Bromburak wrote: »

wyrdob16_ESO wrote: »

So the current system actively punishes a player for gaining exp.

Not at all, because the options how you make money are insane quick.
I don't see anyone complaining about that part ...

So what are you trying to tell me, solving only things that might hurt on the first view but leaving the advantage?

Sorry dude, your claim has nothing todo with balancing at all.

I generally quest and explore when I play...

Please,please tell me how to make money "insane quick" while doing that ...since I always end my playsessions with less gold than I started with.

Bromburak

Agobi wrote: »

Bromburak wrote: »

wyrdob16_ESO wrote: »

So the current system actively punishes a player for gaining exp.

Not at all, because the options how you make money are insane quick.
I don't see anyone complaining about that part ...

So what are you trying to tell me, solving only things that might hurt on the first view but leaving the advantage?

Sorry dude, your claim has nothing todo with balancing at all.

I generally quest and explore when I play...

No worries about your armor then ...

ShintaiDK

I actually think its a good thing. The main fast money boosters is quests. Else its looot gold plus selling loot.

As a VR10 I am not making a silly amount of money to destroy the economy. On the other hand I do make a profit. And yes, storage space is expensive and hard, but thats how it should be. On the other hand this sink also prevents me to outbid anyone lower on anything. And we avoid having items with crazy numbers like a million gold.

For the record I currently hold ~167000 gold. And I am to be considered a bit of a cheapskate.

Blackwolfe5

Then add meaningful goldsinks. Excessive repaircosts for simply playing (even if playing skillfully and rarely taking much damage and almost never dying) does not feel meaningful in any way. Not even remotely.

ms.voorheesb16_ESO

starkerealm wrote: »

Your wish has been granted; when you log in, your very own, personal, hostile, Vampire Knight will hunt you down and murder you constantly with batswarm. Enjoy.

Should i see this as a personal harassment threat?

Arsenic_Touch

ms.voorheesb16_ESO wrote: »

But serious, people need to stop whinge about everything and understand why they have things like this in-game.

I don't know what this whinge is, but I suggest you actually read over the thread and do some research before shooting off at the mouth, mkay pumpkin? There's clearly an issue of the armor decay not working correctly, zenimax even said that there are cases where it's not working correctly and as pointed out in this thread by numerous people, that there's an issue with the speed of the decay. Reports of players losing durability when they're crafting? clearly that was intended, right? Like I said, do the research and then comment otherwise you're just going to *** people off and look bad in the process.

ShintaiDK

Blackwolfe5 wrote: »

Then add meaningful goldsinks. Excessive repaircosts for simply playing (even if playing skillfully and rarely taking much damage and almost never dying) does not feel meaningful in any way. Not even remotely.

Nomatter what or how they implement, there will always be threads like this. You simply cant please all.

Guizan

ShintaiDK wrote: »

For the record I currently hold ~167000 gold. And I am to be considered a bit of a cheapskate.

ok I know you are V10 but at what level did you start adding up that kind of gold? I wonder as I am 49.5 and have saved 20k without buying a new horse, doing any respecs, and making my own armor and weapons as I leveled up. Usually my repair bills ends up close to what the quests yields as rewards and from loot.

Gillysan

My testing leads me to believe that you get gear decay for killing mobs and dieing. I think people have experienced bugs that they took decay when out of combat, that seems fairly well documented. Also at unusual and unintended rates per Gino's comments. It really helps to have the Durameter add-on.

Fortunately for me I am not bugged, at least on my one character for the last 2 play sessions that came out to several hours of questing. My net gold actually came out ahead and I'm ok with it. Character is L30+ light armor sorcerer and I was solo the whole time. Using 2 pets and I hardly got hit but I did actually get hit often enough.

My main game is still EVE Online so I have several years experience in a game that punishes you quite harshly for making mistakes, whether pvp or doing some of the pve in the game. However, the penalty there is quite logical.

The system here doesn't quite make sense. If you play well there needs to be a tweak in the decay, maybe doesn't remove it, but mitigates it in a noticeable manner. Gear decisions should be in the calculation. Getting to VR level should be in the calculation (I don't have first hand experience with VR but the comments here make me want to slow my leveling down and let others troubleshoot & balance it before I get there). Some balancing is definitely needed.

I also think that the gear decay is too linear. They don't use such a thing in EVE and this game is making me realize some possible reasons why. Anyways, this is what I see and what I propose.(yeah it's a cruddy Paint drawing)

Thus you get an initial hit on the damage that slows down as the damage increases. This is so gear takes a really long time to 100% break or optionally never 100% breaks. That way the benefit of using armor can be prolonged and you can work in repair as a gold sink. (My drawing is very crude mind you, so it can be flattened a little more at the ends. Can be skewed more to the right or the left.) Repair costs can even be tied into where on the curve you choose to repair, ie better to repair early or it gets more expensive to repair heavily damaged gear.

Also a one scale fits all armor types is not a good design IMO. This needs to be taken into account in how a logical system would work.

Gillysan

Also please stop with the emotional reply of "the current system will drive players to the gold sellers'. That comment is ridiculous drama queen crap.

Lanae

The armor scale is off the scale right now. I am running around Greenshade as a VR9 in crafted/enchanted gear. Since I am not an OP DK I tend to die more often than I want at these ranks.

Yesterday was going with with only 3-4 deaths in the 4 hours I played.
On average my repair bill was about 1.7k every time I went back to town. I went back 3 times in my game session. So about 5k repairs. That is just ***.. is my armor made of platinum or what?

I wish I could say I was making enough money to sustain it all but eventually I wil be running out of quests and the guild store economy (if you can even call it that) is not worth a damn.