Rapid gear decay

SamAkira

Gillysan wrote: »

SamAkira wrote: »

I read page one, and some of the last page, so, what I'm about to say, has probably been said..

What the hell? I wear 7 pieces of light armor and utilize and aoe bar that requires me to be in the middle of a mob, I'm vet 8 - My repair costs are fine, and few and far between - Block, dodge, don't die. Learn to play. The game would suck hard if it was easier, the money sink needs to exist for the economy, and it teaches you to be a better player. Where are the downsides?

Besides, 1-50 you shouldn't be repairing gear all that much anyway. Levels go by quickly and you find armor everywhere, it's not like you need anything specific at this point. It only really becomes imperative at vet levels that you're built completely properly.

Silly Billies

Look if you aren't going to read through some of the pages keep your poorly made opinions to yourself. There are very specific examples of people here paying really high repair costs with math included. Also examples of people paying next to nothing. Also examples here of people not doing any combat and even taking damage in towns. Also suggestions on what add-on to use to track this.

L2R = learn to read

Regarding the opening post and the reason the thread was made in the first place, by comment still stands as a valid and informed opinion.

Now relax

I have a friend who can't progress because he helped another friend further in the story then he was. Zenimax has recently said, there is no current planned fix for this because so few people have encountered this problem. Should the moral of this story be to never group up and help other players? Go quest in higher zones than your current level?

I think not.

Repair costs exist for a reason, many reasons, let's not take isolated cases and blow them out of proportion, and forget that the majority are not encountering issue.

Learn to Think

Gillysan

If you would have bothered you would have seen this.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/comment/745829/#Comment_745829

starkerealm

Mephane wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey there, everyone. We're looking into this now, and will let you know if this system is working as designed as soon as we can. Thanks!

How I love corporate speak (nothing against you in person, you are probably required to formulate it that way). We as players care little whether it works as designed. What we have been saying for pages is that the way items actually decay is too high; by a factor of 5-10 is my personal estimate from experience of how fast items get damaged in other MMOs. If that is by design, then we ask for the design itself to be modified.

To be fair, given how weird and inconsistent the issue is... I don't think we could expect a more concrete answer initially.

Gillysan

Salmonleap wrote: »

Darzil wrote: »

On my level 16 Templar, did two Dolmens (lowest level one and level 15), with other people. Two handed, mostly green/white armour, 3 heavy, 2 light, 2 medium. 250g repair cost. Got one drop and around 5-6 gold.

Therein lies the issue. A repair bill of 250g is no big deal if you can get 200g-300g from a Dolmen or a dungeon, but 50x loot for repairs is silly. Heck even 5x loot for repairs is silly. Ideally, a character should net a small profit from the garbage loot that drops off regular mobs. Even if it's just slightly more than enough to pay for repairs and consumables. Regular landscape questing and dungeon delving should be a profitable venture. Otherwise why would anyone bother to be an adventurer?

Anchors are bad place to start if you want to compare gold a player can generate vs repair costs. This is because they aren't there for their great loot or even their general adventuring xp. They are there to advance your Fighters Guild rank. Hit K and hover the mouse over the Fighter Guild rank bar at the top of that window. The tool tip explains it.

The information on the damage you take from fighting there is still relevant to figure out how gear damage is working.

starkerealm

SamAkira wrote: »

Repair costs exist for a reason, many reasons, let's not take isolated cases and blow them out of proportion, and forget that the majority are not encountering issue.

Learn to Think

Yeah, we've been doing that. We've also been getting trolled by people saying, "ah, I don't see it, so you must all be trolling" or "must all be wanting a free lunch."

Repair costs are there as a legitimate gold sink. The issue is, some of us will watch our gear slag to uselessness in a couple hours of regular gameplay, and we're seeing gold repair costs in the thousands before we've hit level 10. If we're just getting hit with Veteran Rank decay rates, then, fine, whatever. That shouldn't be happening. But, our gear just isn't able to hold together from brief questing excursions.

dannuckb14_ESO

SamAkira wrote: »

I read page one, and some of the last page, so, what I'm about to say, has probably been said..

What the hell? I wear 7 pieces of light armor and utilize and aoe bar that requires me to be in the middle of a mob, I'm vet 8 - My repair costs are fine, and few and far between - Block, dodge, don't die. Learn to play. The game would suck hard if it was easier, the money sink needs to exist for the economy, and it teaches you to be a better player. Where are the downsides?

Besides, 1-50 you shouldn't be repairing gear all that much anyway. Levels go by quickly and you find armor everywhere, it's not like you need anything specific at this point. It only really becomes imperative at vet levels that you're built completely properly.

Silly Billies

@SamAkira‌ by your own admission, you haven't read all the many, many examples of issues that people have given that show that this is not what we're talking about. People are taking gear damage standing in towns, gear is being damaged by porting, and gear is being damaged MORE THAN IT SHOULD in combat and death (ie. a shield going from 90% to 0% durability in one battle). It's not a learn to play issue. Something is out-of-whack. But thanks for your inspiring comments, based on not reading anything even close to the entire thread.

Salmonleap

Gillysan wrote: »

Anchors are bad place to start if you want to compare gold a player can generate vs repair costs. This is because they aren't there for their great loot or even their general adventuring xp. They are there to advance your Fighters Guild rank. Hit K and hover the mouse over the Fighter Guild rank bar at the top of that window. The tool tip explains it.

The information on the damage you take from fighting there is still relevant to figure out how gear damage is working.

You are simply wrong. It is precisely because they are not intended to be gold sources that Anchors are a good place to gauge reward versus cost for mob kills. When games mess this up, they die.

It's not about absolute values, but rather the balance between the cost and the benefit. As I explained previously: 250g in gear damage is no big deal if you're getting almost that much in loot. When the loot is only 5 or 6 gold and a chance at a "Blue" item then the cost to repair damage should be in the same order of magnitude not 50 times higher. If the damage to gear isn't brought into line with the possible rewards we will soon see players actively avoiding anchors, delves, and group dungeons simply because it is too costly to repair the damage incurred.

If this is a bug, then it needs to be fixed. If it is by design, then it still needs to be fixed, because it is a bad design.

UrQuan

SamAkira wrote: »

Gillysan wrote: »

SamAkira wrote: »

I read page one, and some of the last page, so, what I'm about to say, has probably been said..

What the hell? I wear 7 pieces of light armor and utilize and aoe bar that requires me to be in the middle of a mob, I'm vet 8 - My repair costs are fine, and few and far between - Block, dodge, don't die. Learn to play. The game would suck hard if it was easier, the money sink needs to exist for the economy, and it teaches you to be a better player. Where are the downsides?

Besides, 1-50 you shouldn't be repairing gear all that much anyway. Levels go by quickly and you find armor everywhere, it's not like you need anything specific at this point. It only really becomes imperative at vet levels that you're built completely properly.

Silly Billies

Look if you aren't going to read through some of the pages keep your poorly made opinions to yourself. There are very specific examples of people here paying really high repair costs with math included. Also examples of people paying next to nothing. Also examples here of people not doing any combat and even taking damage in towns. Also suggestions on what add-on to use to track this.

L2R = learn to read

Regarding the opening post and the reason the thread was made in the first place, by comment still stands as a valid and informed opinion.

No. As you haven't bothered to read any of the evidence in this thread your comment is the exact opposite of a valid and informed opinion. But by all means: continue making yourself look like a fool.

Of course, if you had bothered to read the thread you would have found that people are seeing wildly disparate repair costs, such that for some people it's obvious that the decay is working as intended, and for others it's obviously bugged. In fact, if you had bothered to read, you would have seen a detailed account of 2 players of the same level, with the same level gear (starting from 100%), adventuring together for a while. In that scenario, at the end both should have had similar repair bills, but in fact one saw massively more decay (and a correspondingly higher repair bill) than the other. Oh, he must have played worse and got hit a lot more, right? Nope, he was the one who stayed out of melee while the one with the low bill drew aggro and got beat up.

So tell me again how, just because you haven't experienced this obvious bug, it clearly doesn't exist and everyone should just learn to play. Because some people didn't encounter the bank bug, that one didn't exist either, right?

The moral is this: either learn to read, or don't bother shooting your mouth off about things you don't understand.

Gillysan

That is just your opinion. They didn't intend anchors to be "farmed", that's what the players decide to do or not. At least that is the message I got. Farming is out, questing and moving through the game is in. I think you are mixing two different issues that are however related.

The first issue is how does the gear decay work and if it's working the same for everyone. I think that is what has come to light in this thread. Something seems out of whack here with players engaged in the same activities but seeing vastly different effects.

The second, related issue, is more about game design and balancing gear decay with gold creation. Which is a much broader subject. Example fishing: should this be a money making activity or do the devs want this to be only an achievement making activity?

It looks like there is a bug here and once that is tracked down you can have the broader discussion on how you make money in the game.

PS: staying in line with this thread I would add for #2 is how much should repair cost, should there be ways players can do repairs, mitigate costs besides the trait gems. It looks like the issue with #1 is more about the percent damage being taken and where, what is causing the damage is varying greatly between people. Damage being taken in places that it shouldn't be happening.

Avaery

Not much point having fancy armor with the current decay rates. We go in to a dungeon to grind loot with 100% conditioned armor, and maybe 20 minutes into the grind we're dropping like flies because everything is broken. We rarely die until armor is all broken (at which point your armor rating is 0).

So we just replace whatever is broken with drops (normally greens) and continue until inventory fills up. Then run back to down, dismantle the broken crap and sell everything else.

Dont really understand the goal of such rapid decaying armor. Only dummies pay repair bills when you can craft new armor for free.

If the legendary gear break just as easily, then what's the point in having them?

b101uk

The trouble is entering a fight and actually fighting is subjective with bias of player skill, e.g. sometimes I can take on two enemy’s at once and not get hit once, get XP for both and no damage, other times with the same type, level and number of enemy’s I may lose half my health or more and get hit multiple times thus get damage and the fight will last longer – on both occasions my skill hasn’t changed yet the outcome (damage) will have, when you compare 100 players the bias becomes massive just on one fight, yet alone two or more fights as the damage outcome changes.

You then have human nature and all the subjective influences that brings as to how accurately people will portray things, one of the most suspect one that runs rife through this thread is the “never or hardly hit” statement,

I think one of the biggest people need to answer is do they actively group, if so do they stay grouped even when they are away from others in their group e.g. in a town, do they get XP/VP points even when they themselves are doing nothing in town etc while the others are fighting elsewhere, if so ungroup – other things apply like do the grind and farm thus spend most of their time actually in combat taking and dealing damage or do they play the game as its meant to be played as a mix of questing, exploring, searching for materials for crafting etc without any wholesale grinding or farming and killing everything in sight.

Guldendraak

b101uk wrote: »

I think one of the biggest people need to answer is do they actively group

Here is the thing... People have commented on whether they were grouped or solo. People have provided clear examples via testing. Did you read through all previous 12 pages or just decide to jump in and tell us to "L2P noobs"?

This is reminding me of the Trashed Bank Slot saga... Some people (myself included) got hit by it but we had to put up with so many people telling us to get over it or it didn't exist, simply because they hadn't been affected by it.

So back to your comment... If I'm playing solo (not grouped), go to town, repair to 100%, leave town and use a Way Shrine (no combat takes place and I'm still at 100% durability) and after the loading screen (again no combat takes place), find myself at 97% durability (using durameter and visually confirming that my shoulders were no longer at 100%), How does that work? Is this working as intended or does it sound like a bug to you?

Jirki88

Guldendraak wrote: »

b101uk wrote: »

I think one of the biggest people need to answer is do they actively group

Here is the thing... People have commented on whether they were grouped or solo. People have provided clear examples via testing. Did you read through all previous 12 pages or just decide to jump in and tell us to "L2P noobs"?

This is reminding me of the Trashed Bank Slot saga... Some people (myself included) got hit by it but we had to put up with so many people telling us to get over it or it didn't exist, simply because they hadn't been affected by it.

So back to your comment... If I'm playing solo (not grouped), go to town, repair to 100%, leave town and use a Way Shrine (no combat takes place and I'm still at 100% durability) and after the loading screen (again no combat takes place), find myself at 97% durability (using durameter and visually confirming that my shoulders were no longer at 100%), How does that work? Is this working as intended or does it sound like a bug to you?

It sounds like you hit your shoulders against a stream of magicka during your travel through the ethereal. :P

Guldendraak

Jirki88 wrote: »

It sounds like you hit your shoulders against a stream of magicka during your travel through the ethereal. :P

lol.. I had thought of that (or maybe there are nasty things hiding behind the loading screen).. but figured my wall of text was long enough with adding to it ;p

traigusb14_ESO2

Guldendraak wrote: »

Jirki88 wrote: »

It sounds like you hit your shoulders against a stream of magicka during your travel through the ethereal. :P

lol.. I had thought of that (or maybe there are nasty things hiding behind the loading screen).. but figured my wall of text was long enough with adding to it ;p

When you go through a shrine, and evil Bot version of you (with a goatee) appears at another shrine and starts harvesting Jute. lol

I definitely don't have this bug/problem, but I have good friends that are getting hammered by it.

I used to have the bug where you got tossed into the sky all the time (until patch 1.03). People used to tell me it was crap and never happened. But I tended to die 3-4 times an hour (and had to pay for a /stuck). All the extra deaths used to totally mess up my cash flow, but it is not even close to what some people seem to be paying now.

kasain

I still say armor is for display only. No need to repair. I done every event and monster with zero armor. I never played Age of Conan, but I di hear how you could go form lvl 1 to 50 with zero armor. That's how this game is.

I personally won't repair armor until I can get through a night without having to do /stuck 5x, because of a broken game and that alone will wash any armor I made. But again I beat every event with zero durability

So they should fix the bug and make it so armor is not pointless.

Elember

Juponen wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

If you're right, and the increased deterioration is intended behavior, to counter the goldsellers, I'm done. When it was a soft penalty for death, I was fine with that. But, as a penalty for going out and doing quests? If I'm just going to get punished for playing the game, why am I playing it?

Counter goldsellers? No. Rather it makes buying gold more and more attractive as the pitifull gold drops are eaten by repairs. Somebody asked what use is gold in this game. Now we know, and it reminds me of a tinfoilhat post speculating on link between goldsellers and the company.

This is my biggest beef with the game, that I kill level 40 to 50 mobs and I get the exact same amount of gold that dropped for level 1 to 10 mobs...that is basically screwed and gold drops should go up as mob levels go up and not just by one gold coin per 10 levels like it seems like it is now.

It took me till level 40 to be able to afford to buy a horse and that is due to HIGH repair costs and the fact that the mounts are WAY over priced according to the amount of gold that drops. It is WAY out of balance and unless you bought the Imperial edition and got your mount for 1 gold the whole system is completely and totally screwed.

Blackwolfe5

I notice that my gear degrades alot slower on my dualwielding NB who is often in the thick of things, compared to my bow dk that rarely let's anything get close. The NB also dies more. If things worked in a sensible non-bugged way, the nb would have his gear broken alot more than the dk, not the other way around..

vyal

Maybe it's related to procs? I know with all the skills I have, I proc many times per fight... maybe there's a bug there?

liolae

After reading all of this, I guess I just won't repair anymore. Seems to solve the problem. We'll see if it keeps me from completing quests, etc.

vasdrakken

I've got another twist to this I got xp from crafting and all my gear was almost down to zero when I spent a couple hours crafting... I was not in combat.

Juponen

vasdrakken wrote: »

I've got another twist to this I got xp from crafting and all my gear was almost down to zero when I spent a couple hours crafting... I was not in combat.

That's positively weird bug. This reminds me of the environmental dmg bugs. Maybe the earlier speculation that some players may be erroneously flagged as being in combat was correct. Maybe some players are even stack flagged...just a thought.

Darzil

vasdrakken wrote: »

I've got another twist to this I got xp from crafting and all my gear was almost down to zero when I spent a couple hours crafting... I was not in combat.

What buffs did you have on? Just wondering if there is something like certain buffs that some of us have on that are making us count as in combat when we aren't for durability impact?

ShintaiDK

I am a VR10 tank for dungeons. And its not uncommon for my repair bills to be between 1000 and 2000g. My main income is from quests. But those are in short supply now.

The issue is that people like me have very high repair costs. While other clases got very minimal. So in essense I rely on those classes to buy whatever drops I get. In short, the winners gold wise is those with low repair cost.

Dekkameron

Do you still get the passive benefits from armour pieces even if they're completely broken? If so then perhaps it might be best to just wear broken armour and use jewerlly to gain armour points instead as that can't be reduced.

Gillysan

/bump, don't let this thread die.

Altheina

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey there, everyone. We're looking into this now, and will let you know if this system is working as designed as soon as we can. Thanks!

Appreciate the respond Gina

nastisha

saki wrote: »

Yep. I just did questing with sorc light armor, didnt die once and when I checked gear it was at minimum and repair bill was, well as said above around 800 gold.

Likewise. Playing a 33 sorc, no deaths. In an hour or so I get repair bills for around 800 and I just repaired for the same amount the hour before. It makes making any cash for my still mythical draft horse insanely difficult. Could we ease off that just a wee bit?

Guizan

Today I was doing some questing in Coldharbour for an hour entering with full armor all of level 45-49 (I am lv 49 now). Before taking a lunch break I used a wayshrine out and decided to repair. During this hour I had obtained 985 gold worth of decay and damage without dieing a single time.

I sure hope they will go through their code and verify if it is working as intended. I only have some 19k of gold and if I had not bought the Imperial edition I still wouldn't have owned a horse. Somehow I realise why people take the shortcut of buying gold even if I would never do it.

Sinoby

Dekkameron wrote: »

Do you still get the passive benefits from armour pieces even if they're completely broken? If so then perhaps it might be best to just wear broken armour and use jewerlly to gain armour points instead as that can't be reduced.

No, you do not get any benefits from gear that is completely broken.

To address all this "L2P" crowd - the issue seems to be related not to the damage you take during the combat but to some other things. So no, "learning to play" will not help. It seems that when I run around with sword and board my gear takes less damage even if I tend to take more damage to health. My friend from the same group takes much higher damage to gear while he is just healing or nuking stuff from distance.