Are MMO players spoiled by WOW?
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Kyosji✭✭✭Sadistic, not to start an argument over this because I'm not a WoW fan, but Guild Wars and Star Trek Online get there number on units sold, not active accounts. WoW gets their information on active paying accounts. 6 million people do not play GW2 at this moment. I'd probably say it is far less than half that. Also your link is extremely out of date if you check their references.
Again, just stating as a point, wouldn't be fare to attack another game with false and out dated information, even if it IS WoW.1 -
Audigy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭WoW has bred a generation of new Entitled gamers
Not really true.
Wow has bred a generation of Elitist´s that try to deny others their content, by kicking them from groups, not letting them into raids or dungeons etc.
All those dps checks, achievement checks etc. that's something wow came up with. No other MMO before WOTLK was designed like that.
Entitlement is fine, players should be able to play the game they paid for, whats wrong with that attitude?
Wrong however are those police officers that ask their addons if someone is worthy enough to enter a dungeon or raid.2 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Theme Park Design - giving players a variety of different attractions they can conveniently access with other players. Hence - the instance finder/queue system.
Nope.Sandbox Design - giving players a large area they can explore and quest in. Basically it means an emphasis on Open World Content.
Nope. Sandbox games aren't only about exploring and questing on an Open World.
It has NOTHING to do with questing.
It's about creating and manipulating a persistent world.
Hense the name SANDBOX...you don't just explore a sandbox, there is no quest on a sandbox, you can create your own sand castle, you can create your own history, you can create your own quests and change the world just like a SAND BOX.
There is no main quest line on a sandbox game.
You can interact with the world in ESO, but you can't change it AT ALL.
You don't know the definition of sandbox MMO.That is why it's compared to a sandbox. It's like putting your kid in a sandbox so they can play around in it and do different things to keep busy.
Not only do different things...CREATING different things in this sandbox world.And Elder Scrolls definitely more closely resembles the latter. World of Warcraft also had a sandbox design when it first came out. But it later pioneered successfully the Theme Park approach to MMORPGs.
WoW has NEVER been even close to a sandbox game. It has always been a complete themepark.And why you think Elder Scrolls environment is so linear and has little or no interaction I can't understand.
Because in ESO you only interact with a pre existing world, you don't change or create anything in this world.
I'm sorry but I just don't understand what you are trying to say here.
I interact with the world of Elder Scrolls all the time. I save towns, dispel hurricanes, discover treasure etc.
As a comparison, Lord of the Rings Online when it was first released was also called a sandbox MMORPG. And for many of the same reasons. It had an emphasis on open world content that players could freely interact with and explore.
Theme Park MMORPGs are more about sharded content that players can conveniently access with others. Sandbox MMORPGs are more about vast and open worlds players can explore.
I have been as precise and descriptive as I know how to be about this. So if we don't understand or agree with each other yet, chances are we aren't going to
Edited by Jeremy on April 18, 2014 3:13PM0 -
TieFighter✭✭✭WoW was always shallow, they lacked originality and im sad to see people try to implement that to ESO.Da'Hui DC imperial mage dragonknight(retired but retained)
Hand Saryn Valor EP dunmer templar(mage/healer)
Pergan Asuul AD dunmer dragonknight(dps firemage)
Mi'Mosa EP imperial nightblade(stamina)
Limu'Kai EP Sahxleel dragonknight(vampire mage)0 -
Dbetz007✭Honestly IMO WOW ruined the MMO genre in many ways. Oversimplification was the first part and it goes on from there..1 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TieFighter wrote: »WoW was always shallow, they lacked originality and im sad to see people try to implement that to ESO.
The gameplay was always pretty shallow. I agree.
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Zorak✭✭✭SadisticSavior wrote: »
I'm saying you are getting WAY too hung up on semantics. You seem to take personal offense that people don't agree with you on what defines one or the other.So you are saying that ESO is a sandbox just because you can choose what quests to do first ?!?!
Call it whatever you want...ESO is less restrictive than similar MMOs. Thats the bottom line. And that is appealing to people. WoW is far more shallow.
hahah
You are the one that is looking offended here.
And I'm not talking about WoW. I'm talking about the difference between a sandbox game and a themepark.
ESO is more appealing to me than WoW.
ESO IS less restrictive than similar MMOs.
But that doesn't change the fact that ESO isn't a sandbox game.
If you can't understand that...well... =(
No problem. =D
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SadisticSavior✭✭✭
LOL...you can completely ignore storyline quests if you want to. Thats a good example actually.When you are a kid and your dad drop you on a sandbox to have fun, does a "prophet" appears and say "Hello vestige, you gotta do this and that." ?
Were you an only-child or something? You seem to have a huge problem with people disagreeing with you. I understand your argument. I don't agree with it.
Maybe you can get some world wide consortium of MMO gamers together and you can all try to develop the "official" definition for the term "sandbox".My Vampire guide - http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/99101/my-vampire-experience1 -
Zorak✭✭✭Theme Park Design - giving players a variety of different attractions they can conveniently access with other players. Hence - the instance finder/queue system.
Nope.Sandbox Design - giving players a large area they can explore and quest in. Basically it means an emphasis on Open World Content.
Nope. Sandbox games aren't only about exploring and questing on an Open World.
It has NOTHING to do with questing.
It's about creating and manipulating a persistent world.
Hense the name SANDBOX...you don't just explore a sandbox, there is no quest on a sandbox, you can create your own sand castle, you can create your own history, you can create your own quests and change the world just like a SAND BOX.
There is no main quest line on a sandbox game.
You can interact with the world in ESO, but you can't change it AT ALL.
You don't know the definition of sandbox MMO.That is why it's compared to a sandbox. It's like putting your kid in a sandbox so they can play around in it and do different things to keep busy.
Not only do different things...CREATING different things in this sandbox world.And Elder Scrolls definitely more closely resembles the latter. World of Warcraft also had a sandbox design when it first came out. But it later pioneered successfully the Theme Park approach to MMORPGs.
WoW has NEVER been even close to a sandbox game. It has always been a complete themepark.And why you think Elder Scrolls environment is so linear and has little or no interaction I can't understand.
Because in ESO you only interact with a pre existing world, you don't change or create anything in this world.
I interact with the world of Elder Scrolls all the time. I save towns, dispel hurricanes, discover treasure etc.
Yeah, you interact with premade content like a themepark. =D
You don't create them...like a kid on a sandbox.
Edit: I gave you a list of sandbox MMOs, the information is there for you, if you don't to check it nor understant it fine.
But like I said many times, you don't create nothing in ESO. You sit there and enjoy the ride, the way you want it, but the ride is already there and the way you gonna enjoy it too.
Like a thempark...
Edited by Zorak on April 18, 2014 3:25PM2 -
Kyosji✭✭✭I've always considered open world games such as Star Wars Galaxies as a sandbox game. In my mind, a sandbox is a place you can build in without much restriction. You can run and run without any real walls telling you "That's as far as you can go" or load a new zone. At least with SWG, you could throw a harvester anywhere in the world you wanted to start mining resources, or place a creation station anywhere you want, and have a world open and big enough to throw down a house and build your own player city wherever you pleased. Not a lot of games like that, and for those reasons I consider it a true sandbox game. This one, although enjoyable, does limit your movements and what you can do in any certain area. Definitely far from ever being considered a 'sandbox' game.1
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Zorak✭✭✭SadisticSavior wrote: »
LOL...you can completely ignore storyline quests if you want to. Thats a good example actually.When you are a kid and your dad drop you on a sandbox to have fun, does a "prophet" appears and say "Hello vestige, you gotta do this and that." ?
Were you an only-child or something? You seem to have a huge problem with people disagreeing with you. I understand your argument. I don't agree with it.
Maybe you can get some world wide consortium of MMO gamers together and you can all try to develop the "official" definition for the term "sandbox".
Yeah, you can go and do the other questline next that one.
You look angry boy. Go have a biscuit and chill out.\
Edit: I don't need to develop the official definition of the term sandbox. It's already there. Your problem if you can''t understand the difference between creating something and riding some premade thing in the order you want.
Kids this days...
I'm out.
Edit:What do you do in a sandbox? You build.
This is the difference. It's very simple.
Yeah it is THAT simple. lol
Edited by Zorak on April 18, 2014 3:29PM3 -
Kyosji✭✭✭Come to think of it...Did SWG even have 'quests'? I know they had a hunters station and a bounty station if you chose those lines of professions, but I honestly can't remember doing any real quests. I literally just worked my way up as a doctor and built a hospital near the Tusken fort.0
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Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Theme Park Design - giving players a variety of different attractions they can conveniently access with other players. Hence - the instance finder/queue system.
Nope.Sandbox Design - giving players a large area they can explore and quest in. Basically it means an emphasis on Open World Content.
Nope. Sandbox games aren't only about exploring and questing on an Open World.
It has NOTHING to do with questing.
It's about creating and manipulating a persistent world.
Hense the name SANDBOX...you don't just explore a sandbox, there is no quest on a sandbox, you can create your own sand castle, you can create your own history, you can create your own quests and change the world just like a SAND BOX.
There is no main quest line on a sandbox game.
You can interact with the world in ESO, but you can't change it AT ALL.
You don't know the definition of sandbox MMO.That is why it's compared to a sandbox. It's like putting your kid in a sandbox so they can play around in it and do different things to keep busy.
Not only do different things...CREATING different things in this sandbox world.And Elder Scrolls definitely more closely resembles the latter. World of Warcraft also had a sandbox design when it first came out. But it later pioneered successfully the Theme Park approach to MMORPGs.
WoW has NEVER been even close to a sandbox game. It has always been a complete themepark.And why you think Elder Scrolls environment is so linear and has little or no interaction I can't understand.
Because in ESO you only interact with a pre existing world, you don't change or create anything in this world.
I interact with the world of Elder Scrolls all the time. I save towns, dispel hurricanes, discover treasure etc.
Yeah, you interact with premade content like a themepark. =D
You don't create them...like a kid on a sandbox.
Edit: I gave you a list of sandbox MMOs, the information is there for you, if you don't to check it nor understant it fine.
But like I said many times, you don't create nothing in ESO. You sit there and enjoy the ride, the way you want it, but the ride is already there and the way you gonna enjoy it too.
Like a thempark...
It was a similar experience with Lord of the Rings online, and it was referred to as a sandbox MMORPG.
And you create and change many things in Elder Scrolls Online. All games have a pre existing world. I just don't understand what you are trying to say.
Theme Parks are not huge worlds you can explore either. They are small hubs with different attractions you can wait in line with friends or family to ride. Which is why you never heard the term theme park MMO until WoW pioneered it with the advent of their instance finder/queue system.
Edited by Jeremy on April 18, 2014 3:33PM2 -
What people fail to realize is, WoW didn't launch in its current form. It took years and years of refining to become what it is. ESO is a bit "raw" because it is in its infancy.
If you don't want to play a game that's got issues, don't play it for a few years.... COMMON SENSE PEOPLE!!!Dovie'andi se tovya sagain2 -
Shimond✭✭✭✭Come to think of it...Did SWG even have 'quests'? I know they had a hunters station and a bounty station if you chose those lines of professions, but I honestly can't remember doing any real quests. I literally just worked my way up as a doctor and built a hospital near the Tusken fort.
They had some, they were kind of hidden in NPC interactions. They later added in more and then of course tried to redo the entire thing to be all about that by NGE.
Even DAOC had quests, it just wasn't enough to level solely doing them. That was the big change WOW brought to the table, guiding you along your leveling journey instead of just giving you a world with mobs of various levels and saying "go figure it out".1 -
Kyosji✭✭✭Theme Park Design - giving players a variety of different attractions they can conveniently access with other players. Hence - the instance finder/queue system.
Nope.Sandbox Design - giving players a large area they can explore and quest in. Basically it means an emphasis on Open World Content.
Nope. Sandbox games aren't only about exploring and questing on an Open World.
It has NOTHING to do with questing.
It's about creating and manipulating a persistent world.
Hense the name SANDBOX...you don't just explore a sandbox, there is no quest on a sandbox, you can create your own sand castle, you can create your own history, you can create your own quests and change the world just like a SAND BOX.
There is no main quest line on a sandbox game.
You can interact with the world in ESO, but you can't change it AT ALL.
You don't know the definition of sandbox MMO.That is why it's compared to a sandbox. It's like putting your kid in a sandbox so they can play around in it and do different things to keep busy.
Not only do different things...CREATING different things in this sandbox world.And Elder Scrolls definitely more closely resembles the latter. World of Warcraft also had a sandbox design when it first came out. But it later pioneered successfully the Theme Park approach to MMORPGs.
WoW has NEVER been even close to a sandbox game. It has always been a complete themepark.And why you think Elder Scrolls environment is so linear and has little or no interaction I can't understand.
Because in ESO you only interact with a pre existing world, you don't change or create anything in this world.
I interact with the world of Elder Scrolls all the time. I save towns, dispel hurricanes, discover treasure etc.
Yeah, you interact with premade content like a themepark. =D
You don't create them...like a kid on a sandbox.
Edit: I gave you a list of sandbox MMOs, the information is there for you, if you don't to check it nor understant it fine.
But like I said many times, you don't create nothing in ESO. You sit there and enjoy the ride, the way you want it, but the ride is already there and the way you gonna enjoy it too.
Like a thempark...
It was a similar experience with Lord of the Rings online, and it was referred to as a sandbox MMORPG.
And you create and change many things in Elder Scrolls Online. All games have a pre existing world. I just don't understand what you are trying to say.
Theme Parks are not huge worlds you can explore either. They are small hubs with different attractions you can wait in line with friends or family to ride. Which is why you never heard the term theme park MMO until WoW pioneered it with the advent of their instance finder/queue system.
Who are the people considering LOTRO a sandbox game? I'm googling it and only seeing how people wish it was or waned a sandbox version of that game. Links, please, I'm actually interested now.1 -
portallib14_ESO wrote: »
Can't say it any better myself. So true and why theme parks eventually fail and go FTP.
If Star Citizen is all it's supposed to be all it's hyped up to be then hopefully it will blow all the theme parks away for good including this one. Trion are even going top make Archeage a theme park version rather than a sandbox as it is on the Russian server, absolutely insane.
I also play all the multi-play game like FTB Minecraft, Rust, Planet Explorers, Space Engineers, Day Z and so on. It's a shame that lessons can not be learnt by the bigger software studios as they are extreme hit sellers. All done by independants or one man bands.
Bethesda should know better, Fallout and Skyrim were "pseudo sandbox" where you at least had freedom on the whole map.1 -
SadisticSavior✭✭✭
Yeah, because I use all caps and lots of exclamation points right? heh hehYou look angry boy.
You posted it...so it must be true. I can understand your annoyance. How dare we question you.I don't need to develop the official definition of the term sandbox. It's already there.
My Vampire guide - http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/99101/my-vampire-experience1 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Theme Park Design - giving players a variety of different attractions they can conveniently access with other players. Hence - the instance finder/queue system.
Nope.Sandbox Design - giving players a large area they can explore and quest in. Basically it means an emphasis on Open World Content.
Nope. Sandbox games aren't only about exploring and questing on an Open World.
It has NOTHING to do with questing.
It's about creating and manipulating a persistent world.
Hense the name SANDBOX...you don't just explore a sandbox, there is no quest on a sandbox, you can create your own sand castle, you can create your own history, you can create your own quests and change the world just like a SAND BOX.
There is no main quest line on a sandbox game.
You can interact with the world in ESO, but you can't change it AT ALL.
You don't know the definition of sandbox MMO.That is why it's compared to a sandbox. It's like putting your kid in a sandbox so they can play around in it and do different things to keep busy.
Not only do different things...CREATING different things in this sandbox world.And Elder Scrolls definitely more closely resembles the latter. World of Warcraft also had a sandbox design when it first came out. But it later pioneered successfully the Theme Park approach to MMORPGs.
WoW has NEVER been even close to a sandbox game. It has always been a complete themepark.And why you think Elder Scrolls environment is so linear and has little or no interaction I can't understand.
Because in ESO you only interact with a pre existing world, you don't change or create anything in this world.
I interact with the world of Elder Scrolls all the time. I save towns, dispel hurricanes, discover treasure etc.
Yeah, you interact with premade content like a themepark. =D
You don't create them...like a kid on a sandbox.
Edit: I gave you a list of sandbox MMOs, the information is there for you, if you don't to check it nor understant it fine.
But like I said many times, you don't create nothing in ESO. You sit there and enjoy the ride, the way you want it, but the ride is already there and the way you gonna enjoy it too.
Like a thempark...
It was a similar experience with Lord of the Rings online, and it was referred to as a sandbox MMORPG.
And you create and change many things in Elder Scrolls Online. All games have a pre existing world. I just don't understand what you are trying to say.
Theme Parks are not huge worlds you can explore either. They are small hubs with different attractions you can wait in line with friends or family to ride. Which is why you never heard the term theme park MMO until WoW pioneered it with the advent of their instance finder/queue system.
Who are the people considering LOTRO a sandbox game? I'm googling it and only seeing how people wish it was or waned a sandbox version of that game. Links, please, I'm actually interested now.
That is how they always described it on the forums. I would find you a link to the numerous mentions, but I have been banned for life from them so I can't. I'm sorry ^^0 -
Kyosji✭✭✭Come to think of it...Did SWG even have 'quests'? I know they had a hunters station and a bounty station if you chose those lines of professions, but I honestly can't remember doing any real quests. I literally just worked my way up as a doctor and built a hospital near the Tusken fort.
They had some, they were kind of hidden in NPC interactions. They later added in more and then of course tried to redo the entire thing to be all about that by NGE.
Even DAOC had quests, it just wasn't enough to level solely doing them. That was the big change WOW brought to the table, guiding you along your leveling journey instead of just giving you a world with mobs of various levels and saying "go figure it out".
Yeah, come to think of it, 'quests' random happened in that game. Like, you find a swamp rat nest, you destroy it, or you enter a rebel town, and you kill them sort of thing. Nothing specific in the tasks, but it was just a random occurrence that just happened.
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Kyosji✭✭✭Theme Park Design - giving players a variety of different attractions they can conveniently access with other players. Hence - the instance finder/queue system.
Nope.Sandbox Design - giving players a large area they can explore and quest in. Basically it means an emphasis on Open World Content.
Nope. Sandbox games aren't only about exploring and questing on an Open World.
It has NOTHING to do with questing.
It's about creating and manipulating a persistent world.
Hense the name SANDBOX...you don't just explore a sandbox, there is no quest on a sandbox, you can create your own sand castle, you can create your own history, you can create your own quests and change the world just like a SAND BOX.
There is no main quest line on a sandbox game.
You can interact with the world in ESO, but you can't change it AT ALL.
You don't know the definition of sandbox MMO.That is why it's compared to a sandbox. It's like putting your kid in a sandbox so they can play around in it and do different things to keep busy.
Not only do different things...CREATING different things in this sandbox world.And Elder Scrolls definitely more closely resembles the latter. World of Warcraft also had a sandbox design when it first came out. But it later pioneered successfully the Theme Park approach to MMORPGs.
WoW has NEVER been even close to a sandbox game. It has always been a complete themepark.And why you think Elder Scrolls environment is so linear and has little or no interaction I can't understand.
Because in ESO you only interact with a pre existing world, you don't change or create anything in this world.
I interact with the world of Elder Scrolls all the time. I save towns, dispel hurricanes, discover treasure etc.
Yeah, you interact with premade content like a themepark. =D
You don't create them...like a kid on a sandbox.
Edit: I gave you a list of sandbox MMOs, the information is there for you, if you don't to check it nor understant it fine.
But like I said many times, you don't create nothing in ESO. You sit there and enjoy the ride, the way you want it, but the ride is already there and the way you gonna enjoy it too.
Like a thempark...
It was a similar experience with Lord of the Rings online, and it was referred to as a sandbox MMORPG.
And you create and change many things in Elder Scrolls Online. All games have a pre existing world. I just don't understand what you are trying to say.
Theme Parks are not huge worlds you can explore either. They are small hubs with different attractions you can wait in line with friends or family to ride. Which is why you never heard the term theme park MMO until WoW pioneered it with the advent of their instance finder/queue system.
Who are the people considering LOTRO a sandbox game? I'm googling it and only seeing how people wish it was or waned a sandbox version of that game. Links, please, I'm actually interested now.
That is how they always described it on the forums. I would find you a link to the numerous mentions, but I have been banned for life from them so I can't. I'm sorry ^^
Again, I'm seeing them on google, but nothing really saying it, just a lot of wishing that it was more of one, or people asking for suggestions to sandbox games from the LOTR forums.
I know I played the beta to that game, and I never remotely considered it a sandbox game.
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Shimond✭✭✭✭I've only played two games I considered to be sandboxes in the MMO genre - UO and SWG. Both had the same lead designer (Raph Koster) too.
They were sandboxes not just because they didn't guide you places with quests (plenty of games didn't do that then) but because you were given more of a 'living world' with other options besides combat - namely harvesting and crafting.2 -
Shimond✭✭✭✭Or dancing or music. You could literally do anything in that game. God I miss it.
Yea you're right, I started out as a musician in SWG too. I eventually went more combat and I think ended up full time crafting on that character. Haven't played anything like it since. Do like having more flexibility in this game at least compared to most rigid class-based ones.0 -
crush83✭✭✭✭I think the real problem here is that kids don't play in sandboxes anymore, so they don't understand what the term sandbox means.
When you play in a sandbox, you have nothing but sand and your imagination.
You create your own play experience in that sandbox by using your imagination.
In a sandbox MMORPG, the sand are things like the landscape, the cities, the creatures within the world. Using your imagination would be dictating how you venture from one city to the next, or how you interact with the creatures in the world.
TESO is not a sandbox because, as much as you try to think you do, you don't have the ability to interact with the world the way you want.
Let me give some examples.
Star Wars Galaxies was one of the most sandboxy MMORPGs of all time (especially pre-NGE). It was sandboxy because no one was leading you around by the hand telling you where to go next. You could go to any planet in the galaxy, and find something to do. You could venture out for hours on a planet, avoiding dangerous creatures, and finding reward. You could plop down a house in the absolute middle of nowhere, and start up a series of factories of resource harvester farm. You might encounter a random detachment of Imperial Stormtroopers to kill, or you might come across a legion of Rebel special op soldiers. You might stumble across that rare creature that never spawned in the same place twice. There was so much adventure to be had, and no one was leading you around by the hand telling you where you were going to experience it. Maybe you want to run a weaponsmith shop on Rori, the moon of Naboo, outside the city of Restuss. Nothing, but housing space, is going to stop you from that.
There are some very minor sandboxy elements in TESO. Treasure chests are sandboxy. The resource nodes are sandboxyish, though, compared to the resources in SWG, they are pretty lame. I can't really think of much else in TESO that is really sandboxy.
So it boils down to this.
SWG was a sandbox MMORPG that had a couple of themeparks in it.
TESO is a themepark MMORPG that has a couple of sandbox elements within it.Edited by crush83 on April 18, 2014 4:05PM1 -
Supersomething✭✭✭Hello!
I've been playing for a few days now and following the game for much longer and time after time I see a common theme in some of the post and videos on the internet.
Players are complaining about the lack of convenience , a few examples are the size of the pvp area and the lack of numbers showing damage done.
This is interesting to me because I very much so enjoy the absence of
"spoon feeding" in ESO.
Every accomplishment feels more enjoyable and worth while because it took more effort to achieve.
In the past I have witnessed the "watering down" of games that I loved and its a sad experience to go through = (
If any reader feels that they are in opposition to this overview I would be interested in hearing you out as to why you feel this way.
I personally believe there is far too much throw back towards WoW as if they set the precedent for all things terrible. People tend to forget that while WoW was the most successful in MMORPG history and continues to be the most successful today, it did not get that way over night, nor were practically any of its ideas original.
The auction house, name tags, scrolling combat text, guilds, mounts, ui's that displayed a great deal of information. None of these were exclusive to WoW, nor were any of them exclusively developed out of that game. WoW is the conglomeration of many wildly popular aspects from other MMO's that were doing well for themselves. In addition many mod's that became wildly popular eventually got incorporated into the games default architecture.
WoW adjusted their game to their majority demographic, and that is why they were successful, nothing more and nothing less.
These constant "go play WoW", or "WoW kiddie," or "I don't want a WoW clone" statements are a little ridiculous. Most of them are stemming from posts from people that are asking for basic things that have been in MMO's long before WoW's time, yet we need to blame it because somehow it is the perceived scum of the MMO community. I can guarantee that most people who claim that they don't want to have easy mode in their game never fully cleared current tier content in hard modes. So the discussion about WoW making things easier has no basis, because you certainly had the options to make it harder.
Combat text and whatever else that is considered "spoon fed" information is anything but. It is necessary information for many, because it provides details as to what is happening in combat. This allows for a player to become better in the most efficient way possible, with relevant data. People like to complain about the game being nerfed, but do not want anything that provides additional information to help that player become better for risk of it becoming a "WoW clone." I feel like there is a double standard here.
So in short, WoW was not the first MMO nor did it have very many original ideas of its own. It took many successful ideas from many other MMO's which in turn made it the most successful MMO.
Remember, you're unique... just like everyone else.
Characters
Tiberius Aulus1 -
Kyosji✭✭✭I think the real problem here is that kids don't play in sandboxes anymore, so they don't understand what the term sandbox means.
When you play in a sandbox, you have nothing but sand and your imagination.
You create your own play experience in that sandbox by using your imagination.
In a sandbox MMORPG, the sand are things like the landscape, the cities, the creatures within the world. Using your imagination would be dictating how you venture from one city to the next, or how you interact with the creatures in the world.
TESO is not a sandbox because, as much as you try to think you do, you don't have the ability to interact with the world the way you want.
Let me give some examples.
Star Wars Galaxies was one of the most sandboxy MMORPGs of all time (especially pre-NGE). It was sandboxy because no one was leading you around by the hand telling you where to go next. You could go to any planet in the galaxy, and find something to do. You could venture out for hours on a planet, avoiding dangerous creatures, and finding reward. You could plop down a house in the absolute middle of nowhere, and start up a series of factories of resource harvester farm. You might encounter a random detachment of Imperial Stormtroopers to kill, or you might come across a legion of Rebel special op soldiers. You might stumble across that rare creature that never spawned in the same place twice. There was so much adventure to be had, and no one was leading you around by the hand telling you where you were going to experience it. Maybe you want to run a weaponsmith shop on Rori, the moon of Naboo, outside the city of Narshall. Nothing, but housing space, is going to stop you from that.
There are some very minor sandboxy elements in TESO. Treasure chests are sandboxy. The resource nodes are sandboxyish, though, compared to the resources in SWG, they are pretty lame. I can't really think of much else in TESO that is really sandboxy.
So it boils down to this.
SWG was a sandbox MMORPG that had a couple of themeparks in it.
TESO is a themepark MMORPG that has a couple of sandbox elements within it.
Not to mention there was no true leveling system in that game, and the GMs would hold random occurrences like a GM playing the role of Darth Vader, visiting an imperial town, and any rebel players that happened to be near him would get choked and killed by the GM. Or a rare Ancient Krayt Dragon spawning out of nowhere and going Godzilla on a major town on Tatooine where the whole town would have to help kill it.
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crush83✭✭✭✭Believe me I know. I helped recreate SWG over at SWGEmu with a few other developers. I was lead developer at the project for a couple of years. Contributed 6 years of time to that project. I'm somewhat inactive now that most of the features have been completed. You should check it out if you are a fan of SWG. I still contribute some research and reverse engineering to the project, and help tutor some of the newer guys who are trying to contribute. I'll probably return again soon to help with the implementation of JTL, which is the main feature still missing. Right now, I'm having fun playing TESO. Eventually, since TESO is a themepark MMORPG, I will grow tired of TESO. Of that, I'm sure.Edited by crush83 on April 18, 2014 4:18PM1
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knightblaster✭✭✭
Waiting in lines is part of it.
It's more about an instanced approach to the environment where players can conveniently access different attractions rather than exploring an open world the sandbox.
The queue system is just typically how the design works. That is why it's compared to a Theme Park after all. It resembles it in the sense players choose which ride they want to get on, join the queue system, then get on the ride.
No, this is actually very new. It has nothing at all to do with whether a game is a theme park design. Theme park MMOs existed long before queues did. WoW was always a theme park, and didn't have queues -- the queues only came later, and so have nothing whatsoever to do with the use of the term theme park. That you associate them in your mind is odd, really. And there are sandbox MMOs that have some queue systems in them (try gating into Jita in EVE on a Sunday afternoon, and you'll see a queue system in a sandbox MMO).
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvK8fua6O64