Are MMO players spoiled by WOW?
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Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Theme Park Design - giving players a variety of different attractions they can conveniently access with other players. Hence - the instance finder/queue system.
Nope.Sandbox Design - giving players a large area they can explore and quest in. Basically it means an emphasis on Open World Content.
Nope. Sandbox games aren't only about exploring and questing on an Open World.
It has NOTHING to do with questing.
It's about creating and manipulating a persistent world.
Hense the name SANDBOX...you don't just explore a sandbox, there is no quest on a sandbox, you can create your own sand castle, you can create your own history, you can create your own quests and change the world just like a SAND BOX.
There is no main quest line on a sandbox game.
You can interact with the world in ESO, but you can't change it AT ALL.
You don't know the definition of sandbox MMO.That is why it's compared to a sandbox. It's like putting your kid in a sandbox so they can play around in it and do different things to keep busy.
Not only do different things...CREATING different things in this sandbox world.And Elder Scrolls definitely more closely resembles the latter. World of Warcraft also had a sandbox design when it first came out. But it later pioneered successfully the Theme Park approach to MMORPGs.
WoW has NEVER been even close to a sandbox game. It has always been a complete themepark.And why you think Elder Scrolls environment is so linear and has little or no interaction I can't understand.
Because in ESO you only interact with a pre existing world, you don't change or create anything in this world.
I interact with the world of Elder Scrolls all the time. I save towns, dispel hurricanes, discover treasure etc.
Yeah, you interact with premade content like a themepark. =D
You don't create them...like a kid on a sandbox.
Edit: I gave you a list of sandbox MMOs, the information is there for you, if you don't to check it nor understant it fine.
But like I said many times, you don't create nothing in ESO. You sit there and enjoy the ride, the way you want it, but the ride is already there and the way you gonna enjoy it too.
Like a thempark...
It was a similar experience with Lord of the Rings online, and it was referred to as a sandbox MMORPG.
And you create and change many things in Elder Scrolls Online. All games have a pre existing world. I just don't understand what you are trying to say.
Theme Parks are not huge worlds you can explore either. They are small hubs with different attractions you can wait in line with friends or family to ride. Which is why you never heard the term theme park MMO until WoW pioneered it with the advent of their instance finder/queue system.
Who are the people considering LOTRO a sandbox game? I'm googling it and only seeing how people wish it was or waned a sandbox version of that game. Links, please, I'm actually interested now.
That is how they always described it on the forums. I would find you a link to the numerous mentions, but I have been banned for life from them so I can't. I'm sorry ^^
Again, I'm seeing them on google, but nothing really saying it, just a lot of wishing that it was more of one, or people asking for suggestions to sandbox games from the LOTR forums.
I know I played the beta to that game, and I never remotely considered it a sandbox game.
So what kind of game would you consider it?0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭knightblaster wrote: »
Waiting in lines is part of it.
It's more about an instanced approach to the environment where players can conveniently access different attractions rather than exploring an open world the sandbox.
The queue system is just typically how the design works. That is why it's compared to a Theme Park after all. It resembles it in the sense players choose which ride they want to get on, join the queue system, then get on the ride.
No, this is actually very new. It has nothing at all to do with whether a game is a theme park design. Theme park MMOs existed long before queues did. WoW was always a theme park, and didn't have queues -- the queues only came later, and so have nothing whatsoever to do with the use of the term theme park. That you associate them in your mind is odd, really. And there are sandbox MMOs that have some queue systems in them (try gating into Jita in EVE on a Sunday afternoon, and you'll see a queue system in a sandbox MMO).
Well I disagree. But this whole debate is turning into semantics. Probably time just to agree to disagree at this point.2 -
knightblaster✭✭✭Which is why you never heard the term theme park MMO until WoW pioneered it with the advent of their instance finder/queue system.
Absolutely wrong. Just inaccurate.
I remember sitting at the EVE Fanfest in 2005, long before WoW had a finder or queue system, and the CCP folks were discussing sandbox MMO vs themepark MMO, with WoW being the principal example for the ultimate theme park MMO. It has nothing to do with queues. Nothing at all. Finders and queues came along years later. Why the theme park moniker, then? Because like a real theme park, you go from area A to area B to area C, each of them with a pre-set group of "rides" (quests and quest lines) that you "ride" progressively as you advance through the park. You create nothing. You simply play content that others have created for you -- like riding someone's rides in a theme park, arranged in convenient, level-based clusters, each with their own set of bathrooms and vendors as well. That's a theme park. WoW is a theme park. ESO is a theme park.
What is a sandbox? Like a sandbox in real life, it's a place where the maker gives you an environment and set of tools and rules, and you create the content. A good example is EVE, where CCP has created the universe and provided a rule set, but the players make the content. EVE has some less sandboxy elements, like the missions that people use to generate in-game currency, but by and large it is a world in which the players make the content of the game through their own political/military/economic alliances and conflicts. It isn't about progressing from area A to area B to area C based on riding a pre-developed series of quests -- that's what a theme park is, and that's what ESO and WoW both are. That doesn't mean ESO is just like WoW -- it isn't. But they are both theme park games, and the presence or absence of queues and LFDs and LFRs has nothing whatsoever to do with the distinction between the two types of games or the origins of the use of the term theme park with respect to MMO design -- the term predates them.
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Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭knightblaster wrote: »
Well I never heard it until this obsession with instanced content and queues came into play. So from my perspective, it is right and accurate.
Edited by Jeremy on April 18, 2014 4:32PM2 -
crush83✭✭✭✭Ask yourself this. Do you ever see yourself having any reason to visit the areas you've leveled through once you've reached max level and are participating in end-game content?
Probably not. That's a symptom of a themepark MMO.0 -
knightblaster✭✭✭knightblaster wrote: »
Well I never heard it until this obsession with instanced content and queues came into play. So from my perspective, it is right and accurate.
No, mate. What it means is "you never heard it". The term has existed for a long time -- you just weren't aware of it. You'd come off as more informed if you understood how the term is used in the industry and among game designers themselves rather than clinging to your own definition of it, which is at variance with the broader understanding of it.1 -
Knovah✭✭✭knightblaster wrote: »Which is why you never heard the term theme park MMO until WoW pioneered it with the advent of their instance finder/queue system.
Absolutely wrong. Just inaccurate.
I remember sitting at the EVE Fanfest in 2005, long before WoW had a finder or queue system, and the CCP folks were discussing sandbox MMO vs themepark MMO, with WoW being the principal example for the ultimate theme park MMO. It has nothing to do with queues. Nothing at all. Finders and queues came along years later. Why the theme park moniker, then? Because like a real theme park, you go from area A to area B to area C, each of them with a pre-set group of "rides" (quests and quest lines) that you "ride" progressively as you advance through the park. You create nothing. You simply play content that others have created for you -- like riding someone's rides in a theme park, arranged in convenient, level-based clusters, each with their own set of bathrooms and vendors as well. That's a theme park. WoW is a theme park. ESO is a theme park.
What is a sandbox? Like a sandbox in real life, it's a place where the maker gives you an environment and set of tools and rules, and you create the content. A good example is EVE, where CCP has created the universe and provided a rule set, but the players make the content. EVE has some less sandboxy elements, like the missions that people use to generate in-game currency, but by and large it is a world in which the players make the content of the game through their own political/military/economic alliances and conflicts. It isn't about progressing from area A to area B to area C based on riding a pre-developed series of quests -- that's what a theme park is, and that's what ESO and WoW both are. That doesn't mean ESO is just like WoW -- it isn't. But they are both theme park games, and the presence or absence of queues and LFDs and LFRs has nothing whatsoever to do with the distinction between the two types of games or the origins of the use of the term theme park with respect to MMO design -- the term predates them.
Whole heartedly agree .This is one of the best definitions and explanations for the two.
Very well put ty....
Video games ......The only legal place to kill stupid people.1 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ask yourself this. Do you ever see yourself having any reason to visit the areas you've leveled through once you've reached max level and are participating in end-game content?
Probably not. That's a symptom of a themepark MMO.
I can think of reasons to re visit older areas.
Perhaps you forgot a lorebook. A sky shard. Or just want to hunt some crafting materials.
Anyway, what does not re-visiting older content have to do with symptoms of a theme park? One of the more obvious symptoms of a theme park would be to ride your favorite ride over and over again.
So if anything, the theme park analogy makes much more sense when it involves repetition and doing the same thing you enjoy over and over. In other words - the Instance Finder on games like WoW and FF 14 when you spam the same instance ride over and over.
I have read posts where developers have described Theme Park MMORPGs. They do not reflect what you describe. They are about creating a sharded environment where players can conveniently access an array of different attractions. They are not about creating a large but linear world you don't want to re-visit.
Edited by Jeremy on April 18, 2014 4:41PM2 -
crush83✭✭✭✭Perhaps you forgot a lorebook. A sky shard. Or just want to hunt some crafting materials.
And once you've gotten all of the lorebooks, skyshards, leveled your profession far beyond the need for the nodes that spawn in the starter area?Anyway, what does not re-visiting older content possible have to do with symptoms of a theme park? One of the more obvious symptoms of a theme park would be to ride your favorite ride over and over again.
The symptom is that you don't revisit the older content in a theme-park based MMO because there are newer rides that have made the older content obsolete. They are relics. A coming of age ritual that new players must go through, and then forget.
In a sandbox game, all areas of the game are used. There aren't really "starter areas". There are areas that are more difficult, but nothing saying that you can't go to area X with your buddy who's been playing the game for a year, and help participate in that content with him.So if anything, the theme park analogy makes much more sense when it involves repetition and doing the same thing you enjoy over and over. In other words - the Instance Finder on games like WoW and FF 14 when you spam the same instance over and over.
Let me put it like this. I live in Florida. We have Universal Studios, Disney World, Sea World, Busch Gardens, and like 500 other themeparks here. When I was young, I went to the themeparks a lot. I thought it was fun.
Now, when we go, we leave after about an hour or so because it just is kind of boring...repeating the same rides over and over...you wait in line with all kinds of people to ride the same ride as everyone else.Edited by crush83 on April 18, 2014 4:49PM0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭knightblaster wrote: »knightblaster wrote: »
Well I never heard it until this obsession with instanced content and queues came into play. So from my perspective, it is right and accurate.
No, mate. What it means is "you never heard it". The term has existed for a long time -- you just weren't aware of it. You'd come off as more informed if you understood how the term is used in the industry and among game designers themselves rather than clinging to your own definition of it, which is at variance with the broader understanding of it.
Like I told that other guy Knight, I have read developer posts describing the Theme Park analogy. It is what I describe.
The fact I hadn't heard of it before WoW doesn't mean I am inaccurate or wrong. It just means there has been more emphasis on creating Theme Park style MMORPGs in recent times due the popularity of games like WoW.
A sandbox game as I have it explained to me has always been about giving players a large world to explore and interact with. Theme Park style games are more about giving players a list of different attractions they can access - usually through some kind of instance finder mechanism, with far less an emphasis on Open World content.
They are just different approaches to game design.
That being said, it's obvious we have different ideas about what these words mean
Edited by Jeremy on April 18, 2014 4:53PM0 -
Kyosji✭✭✭Believe me I know. I helped recreate SWG over at SWGEmu with a few other developers. I was lead developer at the project for a couple of years. Contributed 6 years of time to that project. I'm somewhat inactive now that most of the features have been completed. You should check it out if you are a fan of SWG. I still contribute some research and reverse engineering to the project, and help tutor some of the newer guys who are trying to contribute. I'll probably return again soon to help with the implementation of JTL, which is the main feature still missing. Right now, I'm having fun playing TESO. Eventually, since TESO is a themepark MMORPG, I will grow tired of TESO. Of that, I'm sure.
I love how you and your team avoided legal issues with re creating the game from the ground up.
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crush83✭✭✭✭I love how you and your team avoided legal issues with re creating the game from the ground up.
Since we didn't steal any code, like most every other emulator out there, there isn't really a legal issue. It's not our fault if someone connects to our server software with an SWG client.
Plus, we had a conference-call with SOE and LucasArts. It is legal as long as we don't require anyone to pay for it.
Edited by crush83 on April 18, 2014 4:48PM1 -
tarek✭I think you don't understand the difference between a Themepark MMO and a Sandbox.
So might anyone; it hardly has a definitive meaning. For some, the fact that ESO gives you tangible choices in quests means that it is not themepark. For others, it couldn't be sandbox unless all quests and mobs scaled with your character (in other words, you can go where you like and pick up whichever quests you like in whichever order you like). For some, even that isn't sandbox.
I personally think the definition is down to the first experiences which led certain players into multiplayer RPGs. My first experience was tabletop Dungeons and Dragons, so I consider all computer games to be themepark.
You can't change or interact with the world in ESO. ( create/change maps, houses, cities, etc...)
You can't create anything besides what we got with crafting.
There are predetermined quests and questlines to follow. (you choose what to do first, kinda, but they are pre determined)
There are predetermined ways you gotta follow to level up. (can you really level up doing anything besides PvE ? don't say PvP plz)
Hmmm...
Yeah. it's a Themepark MMO.
Edit: EVE Online is a sandbox MMO for example.
u cant do that in any TES game you only change the world via quests same as always : /
even if u finish skyrim main quest you can just run around doing side quests, all games are, example: fully sandbox with no quests (like minecraft), or linear with an ending like witcher lets say, or like TESO a combo of both...
in wow all u had to do in the game was stand in a mian city and queue EVERYTHING, pvp, dungeons, raids, events it was boring as hell no one explored the world or bothered going anywhere
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SadisticSavior✭✭✭
Um...how does that not apply to ESO? I can go back to previous areas and kill monsters and participate in lower level quests too. At any time.The symptom is that you don't revisit the older content in a theme-park based MMO because there are newer rides that have made the older content obsolete. They are relics. A coming of age ritual that new players must go through, and then forget.
In a sandbox game, all areas of the game are used. There aren't really "starter areas". There are areas that are more difficult, but nothing saying that you can't go to area X with your buddy who's been playing the game for a year, and help participate in that content with him.
Probably not worth it, but the exact same thing could be said of "sandbox" games as well...they have specific level ranges for mobs in a given area. And once you are past that content, it is not very worth it to go back to it.
My Vampire guide - http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/99101/my-vampire-experience0 -
crush83✭✭✭✭SadisticSavior wrote: »I can go back to previous areas and kill monsters and participate in lower level quests too. At any time.
You get no loot. You get no experience. In most sandbox games, though, the areas are evenly distributed. It's not start in Area A -> Area B -> Area C. Stay in Area C forever.
In a sandbox game you are in Area A, Area B, and Area C whenever you want because there is relevant stuff to do in all 3 areas.
You can keep trying to argue that there is relevant stuff to do in Bleakrock Isle all you want. I'm not buying it.
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Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
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Now, when we go, we leave after about an hour or so because it just is kind of boring...repeating the same rides over and over...you wait in line with all kinds of people to ride the same ride as everyone else.
And this sounds exactly like games like WoW and Final Fantasy 14 where you do the same dungeons ride the same rides over and over.
In other words - it's a game design that doesn't emphasis large open worlds or exploration into new areas. It's a design that offers players an array of different attractions usually at the endgame to repeat over and over.
Edited by Jeremy on April 18, 2014 4:59PM0 -
crush83✭✭✭✭In other words - it's a game design that doesn't emphasis large open worlds or exploration into new areas. It's a design that offers players an array of different attractions usually at the endgame to repeat over and over.
And you think TESO offers a large open world? Because it doesn't. You go from Bleakrock to Bol Foyen to Stonefalls to Shadowfen, etc.
Once you finish an area, you generally aren't going back because there's not really any content left for you there. Yeah, maybe you missed a lorebook or skyshard...big deal. You're not going back to do Banished Cells, or camp out in one of the caves. You're not going back to participate in the Dark Anchors...0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SadisticSavior wrote: »I can go back to previous areas and kill monsters and participate in lower level quests too. At any time.
You get no loot. You get no experience. In most sandbox games, though, the areas are evenly distributed. It's not start in Area A -> Area B -> Area C. Stay in Area C forever.
In a sandbox game you are in Area A, Area B, and Area C whenever you want because there is relevant stuff to do in all 3 areas.
You can keep trying to argue that there is relevant stuff to do in Bleakrock Isle all you want. I'm not buying it.
You should though. Because I returned to bleak rock yesterday precisely because there was relevant content there I had forgotten ^^Edited by Jeremy on April 18, 2014 5:01PM0 -
tarek✭the only games u can build stuff in are minecraft, starbound, planet explorers these games u can change the very landscape if you wish but they all suffer from lack of quests and the combat is just "basic" also the wolds are dry and empty
in a game like TESO u cant allow 4 million people to dig and build, cause in 2 months TESO will be a huge hole in the ground with a lava ocean
maybe in the future they will add guild halls or buy-able castles/houses ..etc whatever, but really I want to play TESO not for its "building" potential
the minute they add anything WOW related to TESO i will cancel my sub delete the game, I don't want to stand in a city and queue everything nor do I wish to work daily quests (already have a job ty) I dont want flying mounts or pve/pvp epics that u get via badges and all that crap
IN FACT I want TESO to work on the combat even more to make it more skill based and not stat based (to a degree) also maybe add hardcore mod where u cant leave 1st person view and everything is harder
also I dont want critic numbers to appear nor agro meters or dps meters I want to play the game have fun and kill monsters and level up with a buddy or 2 THATS ALL
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SadisticSavior✭✭✭
So what? If you've really outlevelled content, it might as well be the same thing. If you have access to areas giving way better stuff you have no incentive to go back and do older stuff unless its for *** and giggle. ESO is no different.SadisticSavior wrote: »I can go back to previous areas and kill monsters and participate in lower level quests too. At any time.
You get no loot. You get no experience. In most sandbox games, though, the areas are evenly distributed. It's not start in Area A -> Area B -> Area C. Stay in Area C forever.
I think the lines are a lot blurrier than you guys are willing to admit. The "sandbox" you're describing doesn't seem all that different to me.You can keep trying to argue that there is relevant stuff to do in Bleakrock Isle all you want. I'm not buying it.
My Vampire guide - http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/99101/my-vampire-experience1 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
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I think I understand your point Crush.
You are saying sandbox games are those that offer an environment that changes constantly based on the what the character does and never loses relevance.
I tend to view it more as giving the player a persistent world to interact with. What makes something relevant or not after all is a matter of perspective.
Either way though, I don't understand how you can compare Elder Scrolls to a theme park design, regardless of our differences in how we interpret the term sandbox.2 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭In other words - it's a game design that doesn't emphasis large open worlds or exploration into new areas. It's a design that offers players an array of different attractions usually at the endgame to repeat over and over.
And you think TESO offers a large open world? Because it doesn't. You go from Bleakrock to Bol Foyen to Stonefalls to Shadowfen, etc.
...
I feel it does.
It gives me the freedom to go where I want. The fact I have to travel through stonefalls to reach Bol Foyen for example doesn't take away from the fact I am going to Bol Foyen because I decided I want to. Not because I am being forced to.
I might have to travel through Georgia to reach Florida but it's still an open world.
Edited by Jeremy on April 18, 2014 5:17PM2 -
Kyosji✭✭✭I love how you and your team avoided legal issues with re creating the game from the ground up.
Since we didn't steal any code, like most every other emulator out there, there isn't really a legal issue. It's not our fault if someone connects to our server software with an SWG client.
Plus, we had a conference-call with SOE and LucasArts. It is legal as long as we don't require anyone to pay for it.
How complete is SWGEmu right now? About how many players are still playing? I may want to re-install for a bit.
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Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SadisticSavior wrote: »
So what? If you've really outlevelled content, it might as well be the same thing. If you have access to areas giving way better stuff you have no incentive to go back and do older stuff unless its for *** and giggle. ESO is no different.SadisticSavior wrote: »I can go back to previous areas and kill monsters and participate in lower level quests too. At any time.
You get no loot. You get no experience. In most sandbox games, though, the areas are evenly distributed. It's not start in Area A -> Area B -> Area C. Stay in Area C forever.
I think the lines are a lot blurrier than you guys are willing to admit. The "sandbox" you're describing doesn't seem all that different to me.You can keep trying to argue that there is relevant stuff to do in Bleakrock Isle all you want. I'm not buying it.
I agree. The lines are getting really blurry at this at this point.
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Knovah✭✭✭
You are saying sandbox games are those that offer an environment that changes constantly based on the what the character does and never loses relevance.
.
Not just one but all characters... sandboxes (at least ones I played) do not phase per progression... If character Jo bob has not saved the town but character Billy Joe has it is phased in eso....in a sandbox what you do as well as everyone else matters and changes the environment.
Me personally, I don't think this is any way a sandbox mmo... but that is just how I see it from my perspective with what I have experienced.
Everyone can read something by definition and take it to mean a million different things. The definition for a sandbox has a few shades of gray but not many. The way I take it (and I have played eve and a few other sandboxes) and what I took from the experience in my thoughts is ESO is no way a sandbox.
You can argue your perspective and from your experiences all day and once someone are set in the thought process you can't change it. I am going by my own opinions on the game after playing both types and to me eso does not fit my idea of a sandbox….but Billy- jo- bob might think otherwise.
Not going to argue why I see it one way and you see it another it is pointless...Video games ......The only legal place to kill stupid people.0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
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You are saying sandbox games are those that offer an environment that changes constantly based on the what the character does and never loses relevance.
.
Not just one but all characters... sandboxes (at least ones I played) do not phase per progression... If character Jo bob has not saved the town but character Billy Joe has it is phased in eso....in a sandbox what you do as well as everyone else matters and changes the environment.
Me personally, I don't think this is any way a sandbox mmo... but that is just how I see it from my perspective with what I have experienced.
Everyone can read something by definition and take it to mean a million different things. The definition for a sandbox has a few shades of gray but not many. The way I take it (and I have played eve and a few other sandboxes) and what I took from the experience in my thoughts is ESO is no way a sandbox.
You can argue your perspective and from your experiences all day and once someone are set in the thought process you can't change it. I am going by my own opinions on the game after playing both types and to me eso does not fit my idea of a sandbox….but Billy- jo- bob might think otherwise.
Not going to argue why I see it one way and you see it another it is pointless...
I said a few posts ago this is basically just boiling down to a game semantics. So I won't argue your point. But it helps to see where others are coming from.
My main contention is with describing ESO as a theme-park style MMORPG. I think it does the game a disservice because it has tried to break from the recent trends of MMORPGs.
It chose to put more of a focus on the world itself, rather than a bevy of repetitious instances and daily quest grinds to keep player's busy. In the end, I guess the terms that are used are irrelevant. It's the actual differences in design that matter most.
Edited by Jeremy on April 18, 2014 5:36PM0 -
Korah_Eaglecry✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭AlchemyDevil wrote: »Unfortunately it's already in the process of happening, challenging bosses have already been nerfed into a simple faceroll game from level 1 - 50, you and I both know those same unskilled crying players are going to whine about the Veteran content very soon and then we will be playing a game we can beat in a week or two. It's sad but they have already started catering to the players that are unwilling to learn game mechanics and tactics, the rest of the game will be next on the nerf list. As other whiners have stated in other threads, it's more financially viable to them to make the content accessible to everyone as the alternative is teaching people how to play.
Generalizing the challenges in this game based on one 'undisclosed' nerf on one mob...Way to show youre pulling it all out of your backsidePenniless Sellsword CompanyCaptain Paramount - Jorrhaq VhentKorith Eaglecry * Enrerion Aedihle * Laerinel Rhaev * Caius Berilius * Seylina Ithvala * H'Vak the GrimjawlTenarei Rhaev * Dazsh Ro Khar * Yynril Rothvani * Bathes-In-Coin * Anaelle Faerniil * Azjani Ma'LesAban Shahid Bakr * Kheshna gra-Gharbuk * Gallisten Bondurant * Etain Maquier * Atsu Kalame * Faulpia SeverinusWhat is better, to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort? - Paarthurnax0 -
Knovah✭✭✭
You are saying sandbox games are those that offer an environment that changes constantly based on the what the character does and never loses relevance.
.
Not just one but all characters... sandboxes (at least ones I played) do not phase per progression... If character Jo bob has not saved the town but character Billy Joe has it is phased in eso....in a sandbox what you do as well as everyone else matters and changes the environment.
Me personally, I don't think this is any way a sandbox mmo... but that is just how I see it from my perspective with what I have experienced.
Everyone can read something by definition and take it to mean a million different things. The definition for a sandbox has a few shades of gray but not many. The way I take it (and I have played eve and a few other sandboxes) and what I took from the experience in my thoughts is ESO is no way a sandbox.
You can argue your perspective and from your experiences all day and once someone are set in the thought process you can't change it. I am going by my own opinions on the game after playing both types and to me eso does not fit my idea of a sandbox….but Billy- jo- bob might think otherwise.
Not going to argue why I see it one way and you see it another it is pointless...
I said a few posts ago this is basically just boiling down to a game semantics. So I won't argue your point. But it helps to see where others are coming from.
My main contention is with describing ESO as a theme-park style MMORPG. I think it does the game a disservice because it has obviously tried to break from the recent trends of MMORPGs.
It chose to put more of a focus on the world itself, rather than a bevy of repetitious instances and daily quest grinds. In the end, I guess the terms that are used are irrelevant. It's the actual differences in design that matter most. Yep exactly how I see it too... it is all in perspective but just cant compare it to wow and I won't . I am not going to label it because at this point it is a tad different... a little from Column a and little from column b. I am not going to stereotype a game to sooth someone's ego lol...
No matter what type game we see it as we are playing , enjoying and I do like debates. It is nice to see how others look at the same thing as I do, in a whole different light. They may point out something I never considered. OMG I may dare learn something...
I am big enough and secure enough as a person to see others points of view without bashing smashing or calling names...Love debates....that is how we grow as people and adults.
Video games ......The only legal place to kill stupid people.2 -
Gohlar✭✭✭✭
I said a few posts ago this is basically just boiling down to a game semantics.
My goodness, you were wrong about something. It happens. Just accept it and move on. It's not semantics, at all.
ESO forums are hilarious. This isn't going to sound nice, but I've read the most clueless stuff I've ever seen regarding mmos on this forum.Edited by Gohlar on April 18, 2014 6:02PM0