Are MMO players spoiled by WOW?
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Kyosji✭✭✭Played WOW for a month before their first expansion (Company closed, Friend gave me the game). In that first month I was able to solo 2 characters to max level. Right before the first months charge I quit. The game was too easy for me. It felt like the game gave you everything, so there was no real satisfaction of game play for me. I tried to go back after the Dragon Knight class or whatever was introduced because my boss at the time wanted to play with me. Again, it was extremely easy and I quit after a month.
People hate it when I say it, but I consider WoW a MMORPG for beginners or lazy people. It's my personal opinion, so don't attack me over it.
Games like Dark Age of Camelot and Star Wars Galaxies were what made my nether regions tingle. Even Final Fantasy XI was good, but it was extreme hard mode if you want to play solo. Beautiful game, though. Level down were a killer.1 -
Gohlar✭✭✭✭
People hate it when I say it, but I consider WoW a MMORPG for beginners or lazy people. It's my personal opinion, so don't attack me over it.
To be fair, that's only true for beginners. It has some deep and challenging content in heroic raiding. I do miss the more difficult open worlds though.
I'd never refer to someone as lazy for not playing a video game one way instead of another. That's pretty silly.0 -
tarek✭wow is like making love to a random person every now and then, its fun for a few minutes then you feel lame after wards
playing TESO is like making love to a long awaited lover, the sex is just icing on the cake, cause you want to stay near him forever
also I'm sure some form of AH will be added later to TESO, its fun actually, maybe they can even restrict it to regions in the game that way people will be encorged to travel and check out different marketsEdited by tarek on April 18, 2014 1:46PM1 -
Gohlar✭✭✭✭wow is like making love to a random person every now and then, its fun for a few minutes then you feel lame after wards
playing TESO is like making love to a long awaited lover, the sex is just icing on the cake, cause you want to stay near him forever
also I'm sure some form of AH will be added later to TESO, its fun actually
Does the voice acting really make that much of a difference?
They are extremely similar otherwise. Theme park quest setup. ESO just has a lot less options and discourages group play by removing exp gains from group content.
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tarek✭the lore is better and the world looks good and the armors don't look like power ranger rejects :P2
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Gohlar✭✭✭✭the lore is better and the world looks good and the armors don't look like power ranger rejects :P
Ok then.
I just find it strange that people are bashing WoW while playing a game that's very much based on the same design principles. Seems silly to me to love one and hate another.
Is it just people trying to be cool by hating what's popular?
Edited by Gohlar on April 18, 2014 1:52PM0 -
tarek✭also the 1st person view and the combat and the animations and the quests and the lack of "quest hubs" and no flying mounts or weird ground mounts1
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Kyosji✭✭✭the lore is better and the world looks good and the armors don't look like power ranger rejects :P
Ok then.
I just find it strange that people are bashing WoW while playing a game that's very much based on the same design principles. Seems silly to me to love one and hate another.
Is it just people trying to be cool by hating what's popular?
Based on the same design principles as WoW? How so?
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tarek✭the lore is better and the world looks good and the armors don't look like power ranger rejects :P
Ok then.
I just find it strange that people are bashing WoW while playing a game that's very much based on the same design principles. Seems silly to me to love one and hate another.
Is it just people trying to be cool by hating what's popular?
wow did not invent the MMO principles...
also I used to love the lore in warcraft until they buttered it ...
Edited by tarek on April 18, 2014 1:55PM0 -
Thete✭✭✭I'll never understand why so many people seem to enjoy repeating the same daily content over and over again for months. .
Nor do I, which is why I've never done it. I never understood why people felt it was necessary to do this either.
I'm not sure if that's correct or not. It is like I said just what I have read. But if that is the case, it's larger player base could easily be explained that way, rather than it being an exceptional game.
By no means. The playerbase in Asia (China and surrounding areas) is not as large as you might expect. It just fits in with people's preconceptions that WoW is full of Chinese farmers or Koreans playing it 24/7. In terms of non-Asian raiders alone in the latest patch (organised raiding, not LFR), there have been roughly one million players who have completed part of the content at least, and that doesn't count the players who are only interested in PvP or the vast majority who only play casually.MMO PvE veteran looking for suitable guild:
forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/72899/mmo-pve-veteran-looking-for-suitable-guild-ebonheart-pact-templar-eu#latest1 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭the lore is better and the world looks good and the armors don't look like power ranger rejects :P
Ok then.
I just find it strange that people are bashing WoW while playing a game that's very much based on the same design principles. Seems silly to me to love one and hate another.
Is it just people trying to be cool by hating what's popular?
Elder Scrolls does resemble old school WoW in some ways. I'll give you that.
But it doesn't remotely resemble the modern World of Warcraft of today.
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Gohlar✭✭✭✭
Based on the same design principles as WoW? How so?
The modern WoW based theme park design. You are led by the nose from one quest to the next, except ESO may be even more linear and restrictive. It certainly does a worse job with group play (no exp in dungeons, phasing issues). Most games since WoW have used this setup. I was hoping for something different in ESO.
It surprises me people are doing the same things and talking like it's this vastly new experience. It isn't at all. Better production values sure, but it's the same old game with a fresh coat of paint.Edited by Gohlar on April 18, 2014 1:57PM1 -
TieFighter✭✭✭you really think WoW was genuine and original? let me guess, WoW was the first MMO right?Da'Hui DC imperial mage dragonknight(retired but retained)
Hand Saryn Valor EP dunmer templar(mage/healer)
Pergan Asuul AD dunmer dragonknight(dps firemage)
Mi'Mosa EP imperial nightblade(stamina)
Limu'Kai EP Sahxleel dragonknight(vampire mage)3 -
Gohlar✭✭✭✭
wow did not invent the MMO principles...
also I used to love the lore in warcraft until they buttered it ...
WoW did come up with the theme park design that ESO uses though.TieFighter wrote: »you really think WoW was genuine and original? let me guess, WoW was the first MMO right?
WoW was, for better or worse, the 1st successful theme park mmo. Many games including ESO have followed suit. I've been playing mmos since the 90s if that means anything. My favorites were old EQ and DAoC.Edited by Gohlar on April 18, 2014 1:59PM0 -
Kyosji✭✭✭
Based on the same design principles as WoW? How so?
The modern WoW based theme park design. You are led by the nose from one quest to the next, except ESO may be even more linear and restrictive. It certainly does a worse job with group play (no exp in dungeons, phasing issues). Most games since WoW have used this setup. I was hoping for something different in ESO.
It surprises me people are doing the same things and talking like it's this vastly new experience. It isn't at all. Better production values sure, but it's the same old game with a fresh coat of paint.
...but this is not a design that WoW started. WoW just used it because others have used it in the past.
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Zorak✭✭✭SadisticSavior wrote: »
I wish. Was basically a waste of 18 months. But all my friends were playing it.I bet you never played WoW.
I can do it enough for both of us heh heh.But I won't trash talk a game that completely revolutionized an entire genre
I'm glad other people who play it enjoy it. I am more glad that I have alternatives to it.
Yeap.
And that doesn't change the fact that your idea that most people hate WoW is wrong.
You have all the right to don't like it. But it's kinda lame to say something like that when WoW still has more players then all MMOs together. lol
Like I said, don't delude yourself just to make your opinion true to every MMO player.
I have read that one of the main reasons for World of Warcraft's unusually high population is because it effectively marketed to China (the world's most populated country). And if you were to take out that out of the equation it would more closely resemble other MMO numbers.
I'm not sure if that's correct or not. It is like I said just what I have read. But if that is the case, it's larger player base could easily be explained that way, rather than it being an exceptional game.
Personally I think WoW was an exceptional game at his golden age. But now it's outdated and boring.
But WoW still has more player then all other MMOs together. That's huge and I bet even if you take China out of the equation it wouldn't resemble other MMO numbers.
We're talking about a difference of millions of players.
I've played WoW for 2 months this year just to see how this new expansion was and I got bored really fast. But the major cities were all overflowing with people.
The server I was playing on had a queue of a thousand + people every night. And it was just one of the MANY servers that were full.Edited by Zorak on April 18, 2014 2:01PM0 -
TieFighter✭✭✭WoW didnt come up with anything, they did the same thing as others. just made it easier to do the same thingsDa'Hui DC imperial mage dragonknight(retired but retained)
Hand Saryn Valor EP dunmer templar(mage/healer)
Pergan Asuul AD dunmer dragonknight(dps firemage)
Mi'Mosa EP imperial nightblade(stamina)
Limu'Kai EP Sahxleel dragonknight(vampire mage)1 -
Gohlar✭✭✭✭What were the previous theme park mmos?
Not EQ, not DAoC...certainly not Shadowbane or SWG...I didn't play much Asheron's Call.
So yeah, what are we talking about here? I could be missing something.
In any event, I just wish people would stop pretending ESO is anything other than the latest in a long line of generic theme park mmos. I mean it's an ok game but people look stupid trying to act superior because they go to one theme park over another.Edited by Gohlar on April 18, 2014 2:03PM0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Based on the same design principles as WoW? How so?
The modern WoW based theme park design. You are led by the nose from one quest to the next, except ESO may be even more linear and restrictive. It certainly does a worse job with group play (no exp in dungeons, phasing issues). Most games since WoW have used this setup. I was hoping for something different in ESO.
It surprises me people are doing the same things and talking like it's this vastly new experience. It isn't at all.
I don't find Elder Scrolls linear at all. I am free to explore and roam as I please. I don't feel restricted at all. So far at least. And I would not describe Elder Scrolls as a theme park MMORPG.
Theme Park MMORPGs get their name because they are designed similar to Disney World. You wait in line (a queue) for a ride with friends. Final Fantasy 14 is another good example of a Theme Park MMORPG. The gameplay is focused around a duty finder where you wait in line to do an instance.
So for someone to suggest Elder Scrolls in a Theme Park MMORPG just demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of what that description means. Because Elder Scrolls is not a Theme Park MMORPG. And I'm not saying you did. Just clarifying the term for sake of discussion.Edited by Jeremy on April 18, 2014 2:02PM3 -
Zorak✭✭✭
Based on the same design principles as WoW? How so?
The modern WoW based theme park design. You are led by the nose from one quest to the next, except ESO may be even more linear and restrictive. It certainly does a worse job with group play (no exp in dungeons, phasing issues). Most games since WoW have used this setup. I was hoping for something different in ESO.
It surprises me people are doing the same things and talking like it's this vastly new experience. It isn't at all.
I don't find Elder Scrolls linear at all. I am free to explore and roam as I please. I don't feel restricted at all. So far at least. And I would not describe Elder Scrolls as a theme park MMORPG.
Theme Park MMORPGs get their name because they are designed similar to Disney World. You wait in line (a queue) for a ride with friends. Final Fantasy 14 is another good example of a Theme Park MMORPG. The gameplay is focused around a duty finder where you wait in line to do an instance.
So for someone to suggest Elder Scrolls in a Theme Park MMORPG just demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of what that description means. Because Elder Scrolls is not a Theme Park MMORPG. And I'm not saying you did. Just clarifying the term for sake of discussion.
ESO IS a Theme Park MMORPG.
It certainly isn't a Sandbox MMORPG.
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Gohlar✭✭✭✭I don't find Elder Scrolls linear at all. I am free to explore and roam as I please. I don't feel restricted at all. So far at least. And I would not describe Elder Scrolls as a theme park MMORPG.
You are restricted by level and the areas you can go to are rather small. The game really does hold your hand and say "now go "explore" over there". It's very limited.
ESO is pure theme park. The attractions are even listed on the map for you once you wander close. It couldn't be any more theme park if it tried. I really don't know what to say to someone who pretends something so obvious isn't true. The devs would tell you it's a theme park I bet. It's by design, it gets the casual players and that's necessary to be successful.
Most people here would be turned off by actual dangerous exploration, it's punishing.
The game is cool, but it uses the theme park model every step of the way. If this means accepting some uncomfortable truths, I'm sorry.
Edited by Gohlar on April 18, 2014 2:11PM1 -
tarek✭TESO just seems more ... well more than wow
I don't know maybe because im a TES fan since the 90s.... TESO just seem to have more love put into it...1 -
tarek✭I don't find Elder Scrolls linear at all. I am free to explore and roam as I please. I don't feel restricted at all. So far at least. And I would not describe Elder Scrolls as a theme park MMORPG.
You are restricted by level and the areas you can go to are rather small. The game really does hold your hand and say "now go "explore" over there". It's very limited.
ESO is pure theme park. The attractions are even listed on the map for you once you wander close.
but all TES games have this : /
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Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Based on the same design principles as WoW? How so?
The modern WoW based theme park design. You are led by the nose from one quest to the next, except ESO may be even more linear and restrictive. It certainly does a worse job with group play (no exp in dungeons, phasing issues). Most games since WoW have used this setup. I was hoping for something different in ESO.
It surprises me people are doing the same things and talking like it's this vastly new experience. It isn't at all.
I don't find Elder Scrolls linear at all. I am free to explore and roam as I please. I don't feel restricted at all. So far at least. And I would not describe Elder Scrolls as a theme park MMORPG.
Theme Park MMORPGs get their name because they are designed similar to Disney World. You wait in line (a queue) for a ride with friends. Final Fantasy 14 is another good example of a Theme Park MMORPG. The gameplay is focused around a duty finder where you wait in line to do an instance.
So for someone to suggest Elder Scrolls in a Theme Park MMORPG just demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of what that description means. Because Elder Scrolls is not a Theme Park MMORPG. And I'm not saying you did. Just clarifying the term for sake of discussion.
ESO IS a Theme Park MMORPG.
It certainly isn't a Sandbox MMORPG.
But it isn't.
As I pointed out in my earlier post - if you think it is you don't understand the concept of a Theme Park MMORPG.
Theme Park MMORPGs are those that center around waiting in a queue (line) to get into an instance (ride).
Elder Scrolls doesn't even remotely resemble a theme park MMORPG.
Edited by Jeremy on April 18, 2014 2:16PM0 -
Gohlar✭✭✭✭
ESO IS a Theme Park MMORPG.
It certainly isn't a Sandbox MMORPG.
Exactly.
It doesn't make it a bad game, it just makes it a little generic. ESO takes very few risks and I can understand that.but all TES games have this : /
It's a different dynamic with a single player game and other TES games felt a little more open, but there is truth to this.
Edited by Gohlar on April 18, 2014 2:17PM2 -
Zorak✭✭✭
Based on the same design principles as WoW? How so?
The modern WoW based theme park design. You are led by the nose from one quest to the next, except ESO may be even more linear and restrictive. It certainly does a worse job with group play (no exp in dungeons, phasing issues). Most games since WoW have used this setup. I was hoping for something different in ESO.
It surprises me people are doing the same things and talking like it's this vastly new experience. It isn't at all.
I don't find Elder Scrolls linear at all. I am free to explore and roam as I please. I don't feel restricted at all. So far at least. And I would not describe Elder Scrolls as a theme park MMORPG.
Theme Park MMORPGs get their name because they are designed similar to Disney World. You wait in line (a queue) for a ride with friends. Final Fantasy 14 is another good example of a Theme Park MMORPG. The gameplay is focused around a duty finder where you wait in line to do an instance.
So for someone to suggest Elder Scrolls in a Theme Park MMORPG just demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of what that description means. Because Elder Scrolls is not a Theme Park MMORPG. And I'm not saying you did. Just clarifying the term for sake of discussion.
ESO IS a Theme Park MMORPG.
It certainly isn't a Sandbox MMORPG.
But it isn't.
As I pointed out in my earlier post - if you think it is you don't understand the concept of a Theme Park MMORPG.
Theme Park MMORPGs are those who center around waiting in a queue (line) to get into an instance (ride).
Elder Scrolls doesn't even remotely resemble a theme park MMORPG.
Hmm...
I think you don't understand the difference between a Themepark MMO and a Sandbox.
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Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I don't find Elder Scrolls linear at all. I am free to explore and roam as I please. I don't feel restricted at all. So far at least. And I would not describe Elder Scrolls as a theme park MMORPG.
You are restricted by level and the areas you can go to are rather small. The game really does hold your hand and say "now go "explore" over there". It's very limited.
ESO is pure theme park. The attractions are even listed on the map for you once you wander close. It couldn't be any more theme park if it tried. I really don't know what to say to someone who pretends something so obvious isn't true. The devs would tell you it's a theme park I bet. It's by design, it gets the casual players and that's necessary to be successful.
Most people here would be turned off by actual dangerous exploration, it's punishing.
The game is cool, but it uses the theme park model every step of the way. If this means accepting some uncomfortable truths, I'm sorry.
Well I just totally disagree with you on about all of your points.
And It has nothing to do with me being uncomfortable to admit truths. I just don't agree with your so-called truths. But I see no need for me to repeat myself. So might as well just agree to disagree.
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