Are MMO players spoiled by WOW?
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crush83✭✭✭✭Quite frankly if you feel that WOW is better than ESO right now, why are you playing ESO?
It's possible, like others, he's hoping, praying, that they somehow address the issues that he thinks makes ESO inferior to WOW. Personally, I think ESO is easily more appealing than WOW, but at the same time, I won't pretend that ESO has nothing to work on.
The biggest problem for me is the lack of an economy right now. I'm hoping they fix that soon before players start leaving in droves.1 -
Cascade_V✭✭It will end when eso is better. Right now, it's not. It should be but it's not.
Quite frankly if you feel that WOW is better than ESO right now, why are you playing ESO?
This isn't a 'go away' comment, it's a serious question. I don't understand how you could settle for second (or third or fourth or whatever) best if you truly believe that.
I played WoW from beta until the panda / pokemon exapnsion and I left.
It was a good game but was becoming too juvenile for may tastes.
Aion was too much mindless grinding.
Tera was an excellent combat system but difficult for our guild to keep a good number of players active.
Rift just seemed shallow and didn't keep my attention.
SWTOR was good leveling and lame end game / bad repetition.
ESO is new and provides hope of something that WoW was a long time ago ; Immersive; Organizing 40 man raids, optimizing dps, min maxing class mechanics, challenging objectives, nice story with a broad established history.
My objective now is to just try and go do some quests or kill crap but instead I'm waste hours trying to balance a bank and 4 mules. No AH even makes this more tedious. I'm just disappointed with the "basics" I expect from a game so I can enjoy the "newest" that it offers.Sure I'm an ass.0 -
SadisticSavior✭✭✭
Give me an example of 3 things EQ did differently.This game is a theme park solo questing mmo, it's nothing like EQ.
It is way more sandboxy than WoW ever was. It is as Sandboxy as you can get and still be a theme park. Which fantasy genre Theme Park MMOs offer more choices?ESO is pure theme park, just like WoW.
I have yet to come across a single player that looks like me. Even just the armor.I also disagree that ESO has good visual variety with it's players. People look very much the same in their armor.
I am greatly enjoying the fact that there are not neon disco balls running all over the place too.
My Vampire guide - http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/99101/my-vampire-experience2 -
SadisticSavior✭✭✭
Because it caters to the lowest common denominator. And is grindy and tedious to play. Thats why most people hate it IMO.Dunno why everyone seems to hate WoW so much, it's a well-made game.
Personally I hate it mostly because of it's lack of variety and cartoony-ass graphics.
My Vampire guide - http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/99101/my-vampire-experience3 -
SadisticSavior✭✭✭
This.It will end when eso is better. Right now, it's not. It should be but it's not.
Quite frankly if you feel that WOW is better than ESO right now, why are you playing ESO?
This isn't a 'go away' comment, it's a serious question. I don't understand how you could settle for second (or third or fourth or whatever) best if you truly believe that.
If ESO is not better, go play WoW and come back when it is better. I can't ever see myself playing a game I'm not enjoying. Certainly not one I have to pay for monthly.
WoW is like Walmart...everyone claims to hate it but someone is shopping there anyway. Having mass appeal does not necessarily make it a good game IMO.
My Vampire guide - http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/99101/my-vampire-experience0 -
Shimond✭✭✭✭It's possible, like others, he's hoping, praying, that they somehow address the issues that he thinks makes ESO inferior to WOW.
See while I do hear that a lot, I don't understand it AT ALL. I don't pay and play something I hate hoping it will get better. I stop and come back later to see how they're doing. These things are about having fun. If you'd literally be having more fun elsewhere, why aren't you elsewhere? Online martyr complex? :P1 -
Gohlar✭✭✭✭SadisticSavior wrote: »
You really need to stop using terms you don't understand. I mean it's funny for the rest of us, but it's hurting your credibility.
Sandbox mmos are where players shape the world by creating content within it. Games like SWG or Shadowbane where players build stuff. There is no sandbox element to ESO at all.
Seriously, almost everything you say is just so far off base I don't know what to tell you. I mean I could keep quoting you and pointing out how wrong it is, but it's not even sporting.
Edited by Gohlar on April 17, 2014 8:59PM0 -
Thete✭✭✭What I don't understand is why this game must always be used as the standard for every debate and conversation.
Because it is the standard for MMOs. Just like you might hear people compare to DAoC as that set the standard for large scale PvP.MMO PvE veteran looking for suitable guild:
forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/72899/mmo-pve-veteran-looking-for-suitable-guild-ebonheart-pact-templar-eu#latest1 -
Zorak✭✭✭SadisticSavior wrote: »
Most ppl hate it ??
Oo
How is that true if WoW has always been the MMO with the highest playerbase ?
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Wow is Wow, and ESO has 0 to do with it. I played it for years, enjoyed it and now here, end of story. If I liked it better I would be there. One thing I hated about WoW was the community, and I hope it and its moronic mentalities stay there for all I care.0
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SadisticSavior✭✭✭
LOLYou really need to stop using terms you don't understand.
"the rest of us" LOLI mean it's funny for the rest of us
Yeah, that might be why I used the term "Sandboxy" instead of sandbox. You can pay attention....everyone can afford it cuz it's free.Sandbox mmos are where players shape the world by creating content within it.
but it makes you feel smart, and that's the real point, right?Seriously, almost everything you say is just so far off base I don't know what to tell you. I mean I could keep quoting you and pointing out how wrong it is, but it's not even sporting.
My Vampire guide - http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/99101/my-vampire-experience1 -
SadisticSavior✭✭✭
Apparently here they do, yeah.Most ppl hate it ??
Because it caters to the lowest common denominator. It's the same reason McDonalds sells more food than 5 star restaurants do.How is that true if WoW has always been the MMO with the highest playerbase ?
Not everyone cares about quality or depth...sometimes all they want is quick and easy. Thats why there will always be a market for games like WoW.
My Vampire guide - http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/99101/my-vampire-experience2 -
Jadeviper1974✭✭✭Brainwashed, not spoiled.What is written above are my honest opinions. If you agree then; "Great!" If you disagree; "Great!" I really couldn't care less either way.0
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Zorak✭✭✭SadisticSavior wrote: »
Apparently here they do, yeah.Most ppl hate it ??
Because it caters to the lowest common denominator. It's the same reason McDonalds sells more food than 5 star restaurants do.How is that true if WoW has always been the MMO with the highest playerbase ?
Not everyone cares about quality or depth...sometimes all they want is quick and easy. Thats why there will always be a market for games like WoW.
I bet you never played WoW. But you are here talking about "lack of quality or depth".
Like I said, now WoW is boring (for me), and this game (ESO) is far more appealing to me.
But I won't trash talk a game that completely revolutionized an entire genre...nor gonna delude myself that most MMO players hates WoW just to match with my personal opinion.
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seaef✭✭✭✭✭Take out "by WoW" from your comment heading and the answer is YES!"The Illuminati are very achievement focused. It's like Xbox - only everything is hardcore."
- Kirsten Geary0 -
SadisticSavior✭✭✭
I wish. Was basically a waste of 18 months. But all my friends were playing it.I bet you never played WoW.
I can do it enough for both of us heh heh.But I won't trash talk a game that completely revolutionized an entire genre
I'm glad other people who play it enjoy it. I am more glad that I have alternatives to it.
My Vampire guide - http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/99101/my-vampire-experience0 -
Makkir✭✭✭✭✭
✭I still have an active WoW subscription but finding harder and harder to log in since I started played ESO. WoW has bred a generation of new Entitled gamers2 -
MercyKilling✭✭✭✭✭Never played WoW. Well....I -did- try it when Blizzard announced the free "trial" version, where you could play to level 20 and not sub up....but I didn't even make it to 20. I lasted about....2 hours.
No, the MMORPG that "ruined" me was City of Heroes. -AFTER- Jack Emmert left/got canned.
SO MANY quality of life features that other games lack, even to this day. Sure, they have some, but not all at once, like CoH did.
One click spam report? Yup.
Did that also ignore the person for you? Yup.
Could you create your own chat channel? Yup.
Could you customize chat color? Yup.
PLAYER NAMES could even be colored in the chat box.
Emote text was italicized in the chat box, making it VERY CLEAR that someone was emoting a sentence/action. No need to use * before and after anything.
Chat balloons? Yup.
Could you turn them off? I did, after about half an hour of play, and I played that game for six years.
Ingame mail? Yup.
Could you mail YOURSELF stuff? Yup.
Were there ingame GM's that could unstick mobs that you knockbacked into the map walls? Yup.
Ingame GM's also waged war upon chat spammers.
Developers that actually sometimes loaded in and held random, spur of the moment events? Yup.
Seasonal events? Yup.
Tons more...but I can't go on. So much love for that game and its community, and I miss it sorely.
However...I will say this.
NO OTHER MMO since the announcement of CoH's shutdown has been fun for me to play.....until I got an invite to a beta stress test and had a chance to play this one, and so far....it's staying fun to play. I just wish there was more random open world RP going on here, like there was back on Virtue server.Edited by MercyKilling on April 18, 2014 4:48AMI am not spending a single penny on the game until changes are made to the game that I want to see.
1) Remove having to be in a guild to sell items to other players at a kiosk.
2) Cosmetic modding for armor and clothing.
3) Difficulty slider.
4) Fully customizable player housing that isn't tied to anything in the game other than having the correct resources and enough gold to build. Don't tie it to PvP, guild membership, or anything at all. Oh, make it instanced so as not to take up world map space, too. Zeni screwed this one up already.
Any /one/ of these things implemented would get me spending again, maybe even subbing.0 -
Turrican✭✭Reality check incoming!!!!
Yes, the nerf to Doshia was unnecessary and is sadly a portent of things to come because, and listen closely, this game actually is WoW.
I know many of you think it is a unique breath of fresh air just because there's no mini-map but the truth is that this is a typical theme park MMO. Quest, gain loot, level up, undertake meaningless pve/pvp that offers no risk, has no effect on the world your character inhabits and provides rewards that will soon become outdated in the next expansion.
The future of this game is for any small challenge that currently exists to be systematically removed, for cash shops that allow all players to have everything in the game and for all individuality to be quashed.
Do you realise what the single best mechanic in this game currently is? It's the fact that repair costs are high! This is the only thing in game that makes a player actually ever care about whether their character dies or not. I imagine they'll be changing this soon then - sad but true!
If you've enjoyed what happened to WoW over the last six years then congrats, you're about to go through it all over again.
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GaBacon✭✭why did they nerf things?? Hell i died to doshia once then have never l,ost to her. i think its fun0 -
Haltus_Kain✭✭✭Given the lack of things like entire zones devoted to poop jokes, characters that look like stuffed animals, mounts that look straight out of power rangers, mini games that look straight out of Pokemon, cinematic trailers that look straight out of kung-fu panda, and armor that looks like a metaphor for an LSD trip... I'd say ESO is shooting for just a *slightly* different target audience (TA) than WoW.
So, to answer the OP's question, I'm thinking 'yes and no'
'Yes' because if one WoW's TA (y'know... an eight year old) wandered over to ESO, they are in the wrong game, and probably in quite a lot of shock at things like being able to die if you attempt to AoE an entire room full of NPC's. These kids probably account for a lot of the "X boss fight is too hard! I tried punching it to death without any gear on, but I died, so you should nerf plsthxbye." ... I'm hoping these players will soon get bored by the lack of crap mentioned in the first paragraph, and go back to their teddy-pandas.
'No' because ^that is less a matter of being spoiled as it is being lost... It's like a small child wandering into a bar and complaining that none of the TVs there are showing cartoons.
All that said, though, most of the complaints in seeing have nothing to do with ESO not being WoW-y enough, but are actually valid complaints... Things like:
- Zmax charging an initial box fee, a subscription fee, and STILL having pay gates for standard Elder Scrolls features like being able to choose the race you want.
- Having bought a PC game with a UI optimized for consoles.
- Progression blocked by bugged, mandatory quests.
- Not having standard MMO features like optional chat bubbles so that you can communicate with those around you without completely removing your attention from the game world in order to stare at a chat box.
- A constant stream of minor, questionable (and for most people, frustrating) decisions like UI actions (such as opening the chat input box to say something) interrupting gameplay actions (such as interacting with the game world via things like attempting to gather a resource node, or using a quest object); having the camera drift awkwardly to the right when transitioning from first person view and zoomed all the way out; and other little things that are, again, minor but occur so frequently that it constantly drains the game experience.
... So, don't just dismiss every complaint as a WoW kid trying to turn ESO into something more kid-friendly... Even if the feature in question is one that WoW can boast... I.E., in WoW I'm pretty sure you can swing a pickaxe at an ore node, AND type to your guild at the same time. Shocking, I know. But is requesting that ESO adopt that feature an example of WoW fanboy-ism? I personally don't think so.
Hey, YOU,
Petition to include chat bubbles to ESO - http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/61316/floating-text-chat-bubble-addon/p1
/sign it^^0 -
Thete✭✭✭WoW has bred a generation of new Entitled gamers
Not really, that sense of entitlement is in society. Although I can understand where you'd get that idea from, with there being so much content for the casual player, it doesn't really hold up to scrutiny.
When people complain on the forums of WoW, the response is basically 'Working as intended, like it or lump it.'
When people complain on these forums (or the previous beta ones), the response has been, 'Right, we'll make a knee jerk change right away.'
If any game actually breeds entitlement, I think I know which is the more likely to do it.MMO PvE veteran looking for suitable guild:
forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/72899/mmo-pve-veteran-looking-for-suitable-guild-ebonheart-pact-templar-eu#latest0 -
TieFighter✭✭✭People seem to forget the spirit of WoW was always a sad one, it was a cartoon game that was easy to play-end of story... or you would have played EQ, but I already know what happened... WoW players got fed up in EQ because to their minds it was too hard and people wouldn't help them get from level 1 to level 50 fast enough for them to enjoy or ... they couldn't learn their class and failed miserably,they didn't want to play the game, they didn't want a challenge so they gave up and found WoW ....and now we have to hear everyday from these same WoW players how ESO sucks because they don't want to listen/read text from NPC's and figure stuff out.
A lot must seem to not know the spirit of Elder Scrolls was how immersive the story line was, how the choices you made effected you and the game required your full wits about you to finish quests. I really wish Blizzard would find a way to bring all the simple minded WoW players back to WoW and keep them there because their simple minds are a scourge to the gaming community.
To complain that Blizzard watered down WoW too much is hypocritical, that was WoWs whole pitch they used to attract so many players- dumbing it down to appease the lesser gamers. Some of you try to say "you should have seen it at launch- it was challenging" but that doesn't say much- only that it was challenging to you
congratulations you just admitted that one of the simplest mmorpgs was difficult in it's glory days... Da'Hui DC imperial mage dragonknight(retired but retained)
Hand Saryn Valor EP dunmer templar(mage/healer)
Pergan Asuul AD dunmer dragonknight(dps firemage)
Mi'Mosa EP imperial nightblade(stamina)
Limu'Kai EP Sahxleel dragonknight(vampire mage)1 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
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Well if that's the case, it would explain why so many of these recent MMORPGs have been repetitious and tedious to the point of boredom.
WoW excelled in areas of convenience and performance. But in terms of gameplay, it would be a vast mistake to look upon it as the standard for future MMORPGs, as I can think of few games that were as boring and dull as that one was.
I'll never understand why so many people seem to enjoy repeating the same daily content over and over again for months. WoW felt more like a minimum wage job to me than a fun adventure. The game was mind-numbing. And I'm sure it killed my brain cells.Edited by Jeremy on April 18, 2014 1:34PM3 -
Zorak✭✭✭SadisticSavior wrote: »
I wish. Was basically a waste of 18 months. But all my friends were playing it.I bet you never played WoW.
I can do it enough for both of us heh heh.But I won't trash talk a game that completely revolutionized an entire genre
I'm glad other people who play it enjoy it. I am more glad that I have alternatives to it.
Yeap.
And that doesn't change the fact that your idea that most people hate WoW is wrong.
You have all the right to don't like it. But it's kinda lame to say something like that when WoW still has more players then all MMOs together. lol
Like I said, don't delude yourself just to make your opinion true to every MMO player.
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megowego24Soul ShrivenI remember camping mobs for, days, yes, literally days when I played EverQuest, and content being much much more challenging. Hell, even vanilla WoW was a good challenge, but with WoW bringing in a majority of todays mmo playerbase (sadly) - dumb and easy have become the norm to appease this new generation of mmo gamers, it will never be how it used to, sadly.0 -
tarek✭after burning crusade wow took a nose dive, for me anyways... at first I loved it, it was my first MMO ever did not know what to except....then it just started to get hostile to me and I'm a nice guy even in games...
its probably that i like to read quests and enjoy the world and don't really care about epics...etc I don't know everyone in the game seemed to just exists to grind the uber gear which just killed it for me
the separation of pvp and pve gear the watering down of all classes into basically hp sponges, flying mounts....etc
Edited by tarek on April 18, 2014 1:39PM0 -
Gohlar✭✭✭✭SadisticSavior wrote: »Yeah, that might be why I used the term "Sandboxy" instead of sandbox. You can pay attention....everyone can afford it cuz it's free.
ESO is not "sandboxy" at all. You simply don't know what you're talking about.
Look, it's pretty clear that you aren't very familiar with mmos and that's ok. No need to pretend you are more knowledgeable than you are. It's pointless.Well if that's the case, it would explain why so many of these recent MMORPGs have been repetitious and tedious to the point of boredom.
I know it. Generic quest after generic quest. I really wish TES didn't go with the led by the nose theme park design. They had a change to do something different and instead gave us more of the same. Such a waste.Edited by Gohlar on April 18, 2014 1:40PM1 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SadisticSavior wrote: »
I wish. Was basically a waste of 18 months. But all my friends were playing it.I bet you never played WoW.
I can do it enough for both of us heh heh.But I won't trash talk a game that completely revolutionized an entire genre
I'm glad other people who play it enjoy it. I am more glad that I have alternatives to it.
Yeap.
And that doesn't change the fact that your idea that most people hate WoW is wrong.
You have all the right to don't like it. But it's kinda lame to say something like that when WoW still has more players then all MMOs together. lol
Like I said, don't delude yourself just to make your opinion true to every MMO player.
I have read that one of the main reasons for World of Warcraft's unusually high population is because it effectively marketed to China (the world's most populated country). And if you were to take that out of the equation it would more closely resemble other MMO numbers.
I'm not sure if that's correct or not. It is like I said just what I have read. But if that is the case, it's larger player base could easily be explained that way, rather than it being an exceptional game.
Edited by Jeremy on April 18, 2014 1:54PM0