When will eu server will come to eu ?

renaud.moyneb16_ESO

KerinKor wrote: »

The 'internet latency' issue is largely myth and urban legend it seems to me.

This kind of things you can only read on internet... because IRL someone would probably slap you in the face to make you come back to reality.

raglau

Razzak wrote: »

How much does it cost to run a datacenter?
1000 players bring around 10-15 k/month. .

Well, I guess this is tricky to work out because we don't know the size of the datacenter. What I can say is datacenter costs are about 50% labour and skilled labour in Europe is more expensive than the USA. These ongoing costs are of course opex and the unfavourable exchange rate does not help the USD in terms of this buying power in the EU right now. There will have been significant capex also.

I pay £8.99 for a sub so 1000 of me is £8,990, not a lot of revenue, my consultancy firm generates nearly double that per month from just one customer. So clearly it's all about the volume for MMOs (we know this anyway).

What is the volume of EU subscribers for ESO? What is the volume of subs at all for ESO, does anyone know?

GossiTheDog

Zenimax have chosen not to reveal any subscription numbers. The only number they said was 5 million people signed up for the free beta between Windows/Mac/Xbox/Playstation. On launch they went quiet on numbers.

I have seen industry estimates of paid sales for ESO, using the same data as used in the video game charts reported by the gaming press. They are not pretty.

In terms of size of the infrastructure, put it this way - using public IP address records, I've found 8k external facing IP addresses owned by Zenimax Online Studios, presented from two physical datacenters. I've been watching the job adverts on Zenimax's career website and LinkedIn profiles, and basically the server side infrastructure appears to be huge in resourcing. They even their own NOC team, it's not outsourced.

If you want corporate info on how Zenimax Online Studios is set up, their website has a great FAQ: http://www.zenimaxonline.com/faq.html - most notable from it is they had $300m of funding from Providence Equity Partners -- "Our project is fully funded from now until launch". The FAQ says they think Elder Scrolls Online "has the chance to be a top-tier bestseller".

raglau

Interesting. So I personally think that the game has not sold anywhere near as well as they hoped. Mainly because of the fiercely competitive market and the botched launch, a combination of factors that will have been very unforgiving for ZOS.

I cannot quantify the above but it's the feeling I get from watching my guild numbers dwindle and difficulty in teaming for dungeons at times, already I get the sense of an MMO that doesn't have optimal population for its size (it's MASSIVE). I could be totally wrong here.

If this is indeed correct then they will be looking to stop haemorrhaging money and improve forecasts to their investors. A way of doing that and dealing with population issues at the same time is consolidating EU and US servers. What do they do with the datacentre? Well they could sublet it. Even if they cannot do that easily, it's still not good to throw good money after bad in terms of ongoing opex. The kit is probably bought and they can write that capex off, but to hire a load of costly people to manage the datacentre for a flagging game would probably make their finance director laugh his head off in the next board meeting.

GossiTheDog wrote: »

I have seen industry estimates of paid sales for ESO, using the same data as used in the video game charts reported by the gaming press. They are not pretty.

They even their own NOC team, it's not outsourced.

GossiTheDog

I can't see any recruitment for the Frankfurt datacenter @squicker, and there's nobody listed on LinkedIn for it now.

We'll see how it all plays out. They're experimenting reducing PVP campaigns as Scourge was deleted from US and EU megaservers, which will free up server resources. Most of the PVP campaigns are empty now, so they should be able to merge down to 3 or so PVP campaigns. My guess with megaserver technology is they will also be able to scale down server resources for PVE too.

An interesting question in all of this is console. They will make much revenue from console sales. If you go to search.twitter.com and search for Elder Scrolls Online, you will see lots of teenage girls and boys doing duck faces as their profile pictures saying they can't wait for Elder Scrolls Online on Xbox and Playstation. If you look at the Zenimax Career site and filter it to Zenimax Online Studios, the developers positions they're recruiting now are all console developers, and the rest of the positions are basically customer service, social media, PR etc. They're evening hiring a position just to take great screenshots from the game. If I was at Zenimax Online, I would focus everybody on shipping console this year.

raglau

GossiTheDog wrote: »

. If I was at Zenimax Online, I would focus everybody on shipping console this year.

I'd completely forgotten about consoles!

If they are going to move ahead with consoles it makes sense to deploy the EU datacentre in the ramp up to that and not before. Otherwise they'll have a high spend on staff wages for just the PC revenue and we are largely acclimatised to no EU datacentre anyway (sadly). They can use it as part of the sales patter for console launch and bet the farm on the console numbers paying off the overheads in EU ops.

GossiTheDog

Aye. Another option is just not to have an EU datacenter for console either. I made myself an Xbox 360 controller mod for ESO and tried plugging my PC into my living room HDTV and, basically, you can play on EU megaserver through PVE and it's mostly fine. Of course, PVP and lag spikes are still an issue - but, well, there was a thread about that from US players overnight too.

raglau

GossiTheDog wrote: »

Aye. Another option is just not to have an EU datacenter for console either.

Yes, that's indeed an option. We shall just have to see, as you say...

I AM enjoying the game immensely still, despite this sort of thing.

GossiTheDog

I actually think the game is great, I love it. You can tell ZOS is a newbie studio as Matt F's vision of world class support, ahem, didn't happen though. Plus, the bug QA is at DICE software levels - just not very good. I think they will regret talking about all the features in the 'road ahead' post too, as they've committed themselves to a load of things now which games will bite them in the arse about constantly. EU megaserver is, in fact, one of those things.

raglau

GossiTheDog wrote: »

I actually think the game is great, I love it.

Also, everyone I have met in game has been really decent. I PUGged 2 dungeons with 3 others today and it was exactly what an MMO ought to be about. Everyone knew their char inside out, the whole thing was a journey, no rushing. Where people did not know mechanics they were explained. Exactly the thing you want from a play session.

GossiTheDog

squicker wrote: »

GossiTheDog wrote: »

I actually think the game is great, I love it.

Also, everyone I have met in game has been really decent. I PUGged 2 dungeons with 3 others today and it was exactly what an MMO ought to be about. Everyone knew their char inside out, the whole thing was a journey, no rushing. Where people did not know mechanics they were explained. Exactly the thing you want from a play session.

Yeah, the in game community is pretty great. I think, personally, this is because the game is pay to play, and now 'free' 30 days has expired (a lot of people probably got the game by the parents buying it).

One thing I learned from Skyrim's game director at Bethesda, which I think applies to this game as an overall lesson and direction, is this: the art of making a great game is to cut features. Horse racing? Cut it. Whoever is working on that, put them on making large PVP grouping work properly, or improving engine performance in PVP. There's lots of stuff in Elder Scrolls Online - it's bigger than any other game I've seen by a very, very wide margin - but there's also a lot of things which just didn't work properly at launch, or still don't work. I think a way to change that is change how people are working. Sure, experiment. Also, cut. There were all kinds of unannounced things in Skyrim which got cut out - ultimately, it made the game better. So that roadmap makes me nervous. Don't do that. Focus on what's there, and focus on console, and go after better reviews by making a tighter game.

Jade1986

GossiTheDog wrote: »

Aye. Another option is just not to have an EU datacenter for console either. I made myself an Xbox 360 controller mod for ESO and tried plugging my PC into my living room HDTV and, basically, you can play on EU megaserver through PVE and it's mostly fine. Of course, PVP and lag spikes are still an issue - but, well, there was a thread about that from US players overnight too.

Im sorry, but the *** will hit the fan if there is no EU datacenter for Xb1. MS specifically said all games on xb1 will have EU and US dedicated servers. If suddenly people start playing ESO and realize "hey there is no EU server in the EU" they will be dealing with an even bigger PR nightmare than they are already having.

GossiTheDog

laced wrote: »

MS specifically said all games on xb1 will have EU and US dedicated servers.

Where?

I'm aware Windows Azure has an EU datacenter, but as far as I'm aware there is no requirement for games to have an EU datacenter.

Forztr

Not having a datacentre in EU is costing them EU subs. If the reason for not doing it is that they're aren't enough EU subs to justify the cost then they only have themselves to blame.

GossiTheDog

I posted this in another thread but I might as well post it here: in PVP, friday evening UK peak time, every campaign is "Low" population. I just tried Dawnbreaker for half an hour and the lag is unplayable, even opening a door takes 20 seconds. (For the record 20 seconds isn't a latency issue, it's a "something is fundamentally broken here" issue).

murklor007neb18_ESO

GossiTheDog wrote: »

I posted this in another thread but I might as well post it here: in PVP, friday evening UK peak time, every campaign is "Low" population. I just tried Dawnbreaker for half an hour and the lag is unplayable, even opening a door takes 20 seconds. (For the record 20 seconds isn't a latency issue, it's a "something is fundamentally broken here" issue).

Well to be fair, I think alot of this is still because of Craglorn. Saw the same thing in GW2, as soon as another PvE living story came out PvP was a ghost town for a week.

But of course, personally I just think meh why bother. Too much lag, its just freakin annoying. When the EU server is in the EU its time to actually start playing ESO.

Jade1986

GossiTheDog wrote: »

laced wrote: »

MS specifically said all games on xb1 will have EU and US dedicated servers.

Where?

I'm aware Windows Azure has an EU datacenter, but as far as I'm aware there is no requirement for games to have an EU datacenter.

It was one of their promises before XB1 was even released, and so far they have followed through with EVERY game.

Jade1986

So, we are at exactly 2 months from early release now. I have 35 more days of game time (which I probably wont use, but its a gesture of good will toward ZoS if they manage to move the servers in time). I really hope ZoS gives some sort of public statement about whether or not they are moving them, because people are leaving in droves atm, and honestly, it is ZoS' own fault, they have been so tight lipped about a schedule, or for that matter ANYTHING regarding this issue, that people have pretty much given up hope.

I really hope my faith is restored and they have an announcement soon, because I was looking forward to this game so much 6 months ago that before the early release I had problems sleeping I was so excited. Now, I am back to SWTOR, and if there is no announcement soon I will switch from balancing this and SWTOR, to balancing SWTOR and Wildstar.

ninjajucerb14_ESO

I think it would be pure irony if they instead told EU to wait a little longer while they move the server to satisfy the Oceanic community.

GossiTheDog

laced wrote: »

GossiTheDog wrote: »

laced wrote: »

MS specifically said all games on xb1 will have EU and US dedicated servers.

Where?

I'm aware Windows Azure has an EU datacenter, but as far as I'm aware there is no requirement for games to have an EU datacenter.

It was one of their promises before XB1 was even released, and so far they have followed through with EVERY game.

Where is this documented?

k9mouse

ZOS_MichaelServotte wrote: »

Il a été indiqué, avant le 4 avril, qu’en effet le datacenter n’était pas encore opérationnel pour l’Europe. Et depuis la sortie officielle d’ESO, le mégaserveur européen est hébergé aux Etats-Unis.
Une opération de telle envergure demande du temps, et des ressources, mais nos équipes continuent de travailler à ce sujet afin de réaliser ce déménagement au plus tôt, et que cela ait un impact minimum sur votre temps et expérience de jeu. Le dernier « Ce qui nous attend » en date, lettre ouverte de Matt Firor, reprend bien le sujet du datacenter, et je vous assure que dès que nous en aurons la possibilité, nous effectuerons l’annonce que vous attendez tant.

En attendant, à chaque fois que des problèmes de latence nous sont signalés, nos équipes y regardent de plus près, et s’assurent que rien ne peut être fait de notre côté.

English:
"It was stated before April 4, that indeed the datacenter was not yet operational for Europe. And since the official release of ESO, the European mégaserveur is hosted in the United States.
An operation of this magnitude takes time and resources, but our teams continue to work on this issue to make the move at the earliest, and that has a minimal impact on your time and game experience The last "It ahead "dated, Matt Firor open letter, although again the subject of the datacenter, and I assure you that as soon as we have the opportunity, we will make the announcement that you expect so.

Meanwhile, whenever latency issues are reported to us, our teams will look more closely, and make sure that nothing can be done on our side."

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/comment/923586

Is a new data center being built for the EU side? I do not know French, but the power of Google -- I read a reply from ZOS made it sound like they are waiting for being built before they can moved the EU server.

Taycee-Teepee

ragamerb16_ESO wrote: »

TBH, do you know what made me not trust the future of the EU server? A small detail... The intended absence of any ping meassurement that allow less "techy oriented" users to link latency spikes (And average latency) with the ingame effects ANY remote client can't mask, doesn't matter how smart its protocol is.

Open a CMD prompt and find it manually or use the task manager to see what PID the exe is. Then you are closer to finding the address of the servers. It is not that hard to do a little fishing inside a cmd window to find the address of the servers.

Jade1986

GossiTheDog wrote: »

laced wrote: »

GossiTheDog wrote: »

laced wrote: »

MS specifically said all games on xb1 will have EU and US dedicated servers.

Where?

I'm aware Windows Azure has an EU datacenter, but as far as I'm aware there is no requirement for games to have an EU datacenter.

It was one of their promises before XB1 was even released, and so far they have followed through with EVERY game.

Where is this documented?

All MP games on XB1 use the MS Azure servers. I couldn't find the original promise, buried under the tons and tons of CoD Ghost rants .....So if you are playing a MP game in the EU, you have under 100ms latency guaranteed. So if this game launches with over 180, there will be a mega *** storm to deal with

Kingslayer

We will never get the server in the eu they will wait till its not worth doing it and at the rate this game seems to be dropping it wont be long.

Zolyok

They loose the game
It's too late now, they got what they want in the near future : "We wont move the server 'cause not enough player"

GossiTheDog

laced wrote: »

GossiTheDog wrote: »

laced wrote: »

GossiTheDog wrote: »

laced wrote: »

MS specifically said all games on xb1 will have EU and US dedicated servers.

Where?

I'm aware Windows Azure has an EU datacenter, but as far as I'm aware there is no requirement for games to have an EU datacenter.

It was one of their promises before XB1 was even released, and so far they have followed through with EVERY game.

Where is this documented?

All MP games on XB1 use the MS Azure servers. I couldn't find the original promise, buried under the tons and tons of CoD Ghost rants .....So if you are playing a MP game in the EU, you have under 100ms latency guaranteed. So if this game launches with over 180, there will be a mega *** storm to deal with

I looked into it as I have an XB1 Dev kit and agreement - if you deliver multiplayer on Xbox One, there is no requirement to use Azure or have local datacenters. Examples of games using non-Azure already launched includes Watch Dogs.

Jade1986

GossiTheDog wrote: »

laced wrote: »

GossiTheDog wrote: »

laced wrote: »

GossiTheDog wrote: »

laced wrote: »

MS specifically said all games on xb1 will have EU and US dedicated servers.

Where?

I'm aware Windows Azure has an EU datacenter, but as far as I'm aware there is no requirement for games to have an EU datacenter.

It was one of their promises before XB1 was even released, and so far they have followed through with EVERY game.

Where is this documented?

All MP games on XB1 use the MS Azure servers. I couldn't find the original promise, buried under the tons and tons of CoD Ghost rants .....So if you are playing a MP game in the EU, you have under 100ms latency guaranteed. So if this game launches with over 180, there will be a mega *** storm to deal with

I looked into it as I have an XB1 Dev kit and agreement - if you deliver multiplayer on Xbox One, there is no requirement to use Azure or have local datacenters. Examples of games using non-Azure already launched includes Watch Dogs.

That is because watch dogs was developed at first for xbox 360 and ps3. Games designed specifically for xbox 1 all use the Azure servers. Indie games are the exception.

Albarich

That aside. Sadly as it maybe but i think if the server is moved to Europe then it will be around the time the console version is released.
And if ir remember correctly Zen stated that the development will take at least another 6 months to be ready for the release, so it would take till October - November or even longer.
Heck of a long time.

Syzmicke

Albarich wrote: »

That aside. Sadly as it maybe but i think if the server is moved to Europe then it will be around the time the console version is released.
And if ir remember correctly Zen stated that the development will take at least another 6 months to be ready for the release, so it would take till October - November or even longer.
Heck of a long time.

Console will not be released until we (the pc users) have fully tested the beta we are on and paying for

blauschwinge

If I were ZOS, I would just rent Server Capacity in Europe, we got many Server Farms near Frankfurt where the Fibrelines from all Europe intermingle. I am sure they get it running this year. Also, NA Players have lag issues as well with the game, so it is not all natural latency, but probably a lot of unoptimized data garbage exploding all over causing that latency that we all dislike.