ES game that is not truly an ES game

Saerydoth

cubansyrusb16_ESO wrote: »

My god you all claim to be fans of the elder scrolls franchise yet you fail to grasp basic facts.

i.e This game is set thousands of years before morrowind, oblivion, and skyrim.

It's 1000 years from Daggerfall which is its closest link and it is 2000 years from Skyrim ... ESO fit's in pretty close to the other games time wise, everything that happens or is happening in ESO is recorded in books in almost all of these games.

Just incase anyone is intrested......

TES Timeline:

Skyrim - 4E
Oblivion - 3E4-33
Morrowind - 3E-427
Arena - 3E-389
Daggerfall - 3E
ESO - 2E

You have some of it right, and some of it wrong.

ESO: 2E 582
Tiber Septim/Talos born: 2E 830
Talos conquers all of Tamriel, establishing the Septim empire, ending the second era: 2E 897/3E 1
Uriel Septim VII (descendent of Talos) born: 3E 346
Arena: 3E 399
Daggerfall: 3E 405
Morrowind: 3E 427
Oblivion: 3E 433/4E 1 (the fourth era begins)
Skyrim: 4E 201

It's not *exactly* 1000 years. But Oblivion takes place 748 years AFTER ESO, and Skyrim takes place 200 years after Oblivion (948 years after ESO).

Nightstrider

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Yea, there's some interesting things to do with the class system. That's cool that I can be a Sorcerer, and still spec in dual wielding, or Heavy Armor, or what have you. But virtually the only way to play a mage is to play a Sorcerer, whereas you can play melee with ANY of the classes. The combat skills are all separate. And that's pretty cool. But the magic skills are all confined to the Sorcerer class, and not nearly as diverse as previous Elder Scrolls games. There's like, 3 summons available, you can't summon undead, they have to be Daedra. The magic skills beyond that seem to lack real diversity.

I don't feel I have the choices in character building in ESO that I feel I had in Morrowind, Oblivion, or Skyrim. And you can talk about the balance of an MMO all you like, and you'd be correct. Which is why I don't think Elder Scrolls translates well to an MMO. The things that I play Elder Scrolls for don't translate to an MMO. So the things that I play Elder Scrolls for are missing from ESO, and so it comes down to the fact that ESO -doesn't- feel like an Elder Scrolls game to me, it feels like a generic MMO with the Elder Scrolls name tacked onto it.

Entirely untrue. Every class skill uses magicka, while weapon skills use stamina. Class skills are counted as "spells" and are affected by "spell modifiers". You can easily create a "fire-mage" with a Templar. Chose the middle skill tree, light armor, and start chucking fireballs. Nightblade as mage? Siphoning and Shadows makes for some seriously cool mage-abilities. Morph one way for damage or stuns, and another way for heals. Want more spells? Pick up a staff that gives you fire, frost, and lightning effects... walls, explosions, rainbow colors... it's all in there!

Be creative. One of the best healers I've done dungeoneering with was a low-dps/high healing nightblade.

Saerydoth

Nightstrider wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Yea, there's some interesting things to do with the class system. That's cool that I can be a Sorcerer, and still spec in dual wielding, or Heavy Armor, or what have you. But virtually the only way to play a mage is to play a Sorcerer, whereas you can play melee with ANY of the classes. The combat skills are all separate. And that's pretty cool. But the magic skills are all confined to the Sorcerer class, and not nearly as diverse as previous Elder Scrolls games. There's like, 3 summons available, you can't summon undead, they have to be Daedra. The magic skills beyond that seem to lack real diversity.

I don't feel I have the choices in character building in ESO that I feel I had in Morrowind, Oblivion, or Skyrim. And you can talk about the balance of an MMO all you like, and you'd be correct. Which is why I don't think Elder Scrolls translates well to an MMO. The things that I play Elder Scrolls for don't translate to an MMO. So the things that I play Elder Scrolls for are missing from ESO, and so it comes down to the fact that ESO -doesn't- feel like an Elder Scrolls game to me, it feels like a generic MMO with the Elder Scrolls name tacked onto it.

Entirely untrue. Every class skill uses magicka, while weapon skills use stamina. Class skills are counted as "spells" and are affected by "spell modifiers". You can easily create a "fire-mage" with a Templar. Chose the middle skill tree, light armor, and start chucking fireballs. Nightblade as mage? Siphoning and Shadows makes for some seriously cool mage-abilities. Morph one way for damage or stuns, and another way for heals. Want more spells? Pick up a staff that gives you fire, frost, and lightning effects... walls, explosions, rainbow colors... it's all in there!

Be creative. One of the best healers I've done dungeoneering with was a low-dps/high healing nightblade.

Noone wants to be creative, or have fun, or just play the game anymore. They want to go to the internet, and look up the "highest DPS" cookie cutter build, and use that, and then complain when there are "nerfs", and complain even louder when there are buffs that allow other builds to do the DPS they do. Because how dare anyone ever do as much as they do, because they are obviously the most talented player ever.

It really irritates me. I'm one of those people that plays the way I want to play (I even did this in WOW), and refuses to min-max my character.

Scintilla

Saerydoth wrote: »

Nightstrider wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Yea, there's some interesting things to do with the class system. That's cool that I can be a Sorcerer, and still spec in dual wielding, or Heavy Armor, or what have you. But virtually the only way to play a mage is to play a Sorcerer, whereas you can play melee with ANY of the classes. The combat skills are all separate. And that's pretty cool. But the magic skills are all confined to the Sorcerer class, and not nearly as diverse as previous Elder Scrolls games. There's like, 3 summons available, you can't summon undead, they have to be Daedra. The magic skills beyond that seem to lack real diversity.

I don't feel I have the choices in character building in ESO that I feel I had in Morrowind, Oblivion, or Skyrim. And you can talk about the balance of an MMO all you like, and you'd be correct. Which is why I don't think Elder Scrolls translates well to an MMO. The things that I play Elder Scrolls for don't translate to an MMO. So the things that I play Elder Scrolls for are missing from ESO, and so it comes down to the fact that ESO -doesn't- feel like an Elder Scrolls game to me, it feels like a generic MMO with the Elder Scrolls name tacked onto it.

Entirely untrue. Every class skill uses magicka, while weapon skills use stamina. Class skills are counted as "spells" and are affected by "spell modifiers". You can easily create a "fire-mage" with a Templar. Chose the middle skill tree, light armor, and start chucking fireballs. Nightblade as mage? Siphoning and Shadows makes for some seriously cool mage-abilities. Morph one way for damage or stuns, and another way for heals. Want more spells? Pick up a staff that gives you fire, frost, and lightning effects... walls, explosions, rainbow colors... it's all in there!

Be creative. One of the best healers I've done dungeoneering with was a low-dps/high healing nightblade.

Noone wants to be creative, or have fun, or just play the game anymore. They want to go to the internet, and look up the "highest DPS" cookie cutter build, and use that, and then complain when there are "nerfs", and complain even louder when there are buffs that allow other builds to do the DPS they do. Because how dare anyone ever do as much as they do, because they are obviously the most talented player ever.

It really irritates me. I'm one of those people that plays the way I want to play (I even did this in WOW), and refuses to min-max my character.

I like you

amm7sb14_ESO

DBHAShadow wrote: »

See, Morrowind was also my first what I like to call "True RPG" ie my other experiences at the time being things like final fantasy and other such JRPGs. Now the reasons I dislike Skyrim vs Morrowind or even Oblivion is simple, for me it comes down to immersion. In Morrowind my Nord barbarian was able to wear a pauldron on his forward arm, his non sword arm, left arm and a gauntlet on that arm, while wielding a 2h weapon, with leather boots. So heavy armour left pauldron and glove, and leather boots. That was what my barbian wore, makes sense, gave me a sense of immersion, then they removed medium armour, and then they took away pieces of armour. Now I can go with out pants and a chest piece, but with no shoulder armour, and I'd be wearing both gloves, Though my nord can now rock a nice scruffy beard. Yes they trimmed some fat, athletics and acrobatics could have been considered "padding" but I also miss a proper unarmed skill / unarmoured skill.

Also call me old fashioned but the whole I can be a do everything character concept is kind of meh, I like my classic archetypes, and although battle mages do exist, I liked that wearing heavy armour increased your chance for spell failure vs skill, so you could overcome it with a higher skill in magic, and that running out of stamina was a huge deal. Now running out of stamina means you can't auto attack in skyrim, I think you can get knocked down but it's rare. In Morrowind my battle mage had to be cautious, I'm a frail old man in a heavy suit of armour, if I got tired all it'd take was a swing from a brute's 2hander to knock me down and most likely end my life.

Sure you could focus on everything, it'd take time, and it was harder, reminded me of DnD and just classical RPG ideas, now it's more power gamer friendly. My Nord in Skyrim ran out of things to put skill points in, as in I wasn't touching magic, I wasn't going to enchant or make potions, I'm a dumb barbarian who lived in the wild and knew only how to fight. So I ended up with all these skill points that in older games I could have dumped into other things like the things they removed.

Like I said I don't Hate skyrim, but I found myself bored of it a lot quicker than previous entries, it's most likely play style, I do like my archetypes like I said, and as such I make specific characters. However aside from the combat and nice graphics I feel they haven't really improved the game (oh and aside from the radiant AI they have been tweaking and growing since good old fargoth) I remember them even promising that no two dungeons would be alike, that may be true for overall layout but once you explored one nordic ruin and killed a handful of drauger you pretty much experienced a good chunk of the "dungeons" in the game.

One last topic, I also really felt the "guilds" had very very short storyline, I did everything I could to avoid doing main story, and ran out of side things to do, I even beat the game by accident, I figured that alduin was going to talk some trash and fly away, and then I killed him and was really saddened at how I just kinda beat the game without meaning to.

Again, I disagree completely.

Yea, sure, being able to equip individual gloves or pauldrons was cool, but it's a minute, mundane detail. Quite frankly, you can't bash Oblivion or Skyrim for not having that level of detail when that level of detail isn't anywhere to be found in RPG's PERIOD. The fact that Morrowind even had it was incredible.

And yes, it was a cool feature that I would -prefer- to see back, but it's hardly any sort of significant depth or immersion.

And while you like classic archetypes, I don't. But that's the beauty of the Elder Scrolls character creation system, is that you can customize your character to fit into one of those classic archetypes, or not. But in all honesty, Morrowind is far more "do whatever you want" than Skyrim is. In order to fully maximize a skill, you need to perk into it. And perks are finite (well, until certain patches changed that from my understanding). In Morrowind, all you had to do was use it. There was literally nothing stopping you from using any and every skill in the game, and maximizing it to full capacity. Morrowind is far more of a "power gamer"'s game than Skyrim is.

I found the character building to be far more dynamic in Skyrim than in Morrowind or Oblivion. Far more engaging. Morrowind's is a simple "pick the skills that define your class, but there is absolutely nothing limiting you from becoming just as proficient and powerful in everything else as you are in your class skills". Skyrim is "think about your build, every choice you make means less possibilities for other skills, so you need to have an idea planned out of what you want to be".

cliveklgb14_ESO wrote:

That isn't what she said, "I think that oblivion (and skyrim) were bigger bastardizations"

You are twisting the context.

There's no twisting of context, as that's exactly what I said, that Oblivion nor Skyrim are "bastardizations" of the franchise in even the least bit.

Nightstrider wrote:

Entirely untrue. Every class skill uses magicka, while weapon skills use stamina. Class skills are counted as "spells" and are affected by "spell modifiers". You can easily create a "fire-mage" with a Templar. Chose the middle skill tree, light armor, and start chucking fireballs. Nightblade as mage? Siphoning and Shadows makes for some seriously cool mage-abilities. Morph one way for damage or stuns, and another way for heals. Want more spells? Pick up a staff that gives you fire, frost, and lightning effects... walls, explosions, rainbow colors... it's all in there!

Be creative. One of the best healers I've done dungeoneering with was a low-dps/high healing nightblade.

That's obviously not the sort of magic that I am talking about. Just because a stun ability uses magicka doesn't make it the sort of magic I am talking about. I can't play a Dragonknight and pick up a summon undead ability. Granted, I can build up Destruction or Restoration staff abilities, although those barely interest me as well.

[quote=Saerydoth[/quote]Noone wants to be creative, or have fun, or just play the game anymore. They want to go to the internet, and look up the "highest DPS" cookie cutter build, and use that, and then complain when there are "nerfs", and complain even louder when there are buffs that allow other builds to do the DPS they do. Because how dare anyone ever do as much as they do, because they are obviously the most talented player ever.

It really irritates me. I'm one of those people that plays the way I want to play (I even did this in WOW), and refuses to min-max my character.[/quote]

Well that has nothing to do with my statement or my opinion on this game, so maybe we can stop with the judgmental assumptions?

Noth wrote:

I guess Redguard, Battlespire, and the TES travels games are not TES games since they don't fit with what the numbers editions do.

Well they -are- spinoff games, so I don't think they are expected to play out the same way.

felixgamingx1

It's full of bugs def sounds like a ES game to me

Kingslayer

Factions ruin the game? Twoddle!, The factions are what the AvA is based around. This game was never going to satisfy the single player game fans easily i know that. This is an mmo and they have to draw in that crowd for it to be a success many of the things from the single player game just wouldn't. fly in an mmo

FezzikVizzini

Well, I have to disagree slightly with the OP. It seems pretty much an ES game to me. Crashes and lots of bugs.

Yep, pretty much an ES game IMHO.

cubansyrusb16_ESO

AngryNord wrote: »

cubansyrusb16_ESO wrote: »

My god you all claim to be fans of the elder scrolls franchise yet you fail to grasp basic facts.

i.e This game is set thousands of years before morrowind, oblivion, and skyrim.

It's 1000 years from Daggerfall which is its closest link and it is 2000 years from Skyrim ... ESO fit's in pretty close to the other games time wise, everything that happens or is happening in ESO is recorded in books in almost all of these games.

Just incase anyone is intrested......

TES Timeline:

Skyrim - 4E
Oblivion - 3E4-33
Morrowind - 3E-427
Arena - 3E-389
Daggerfall - 3E
ESO - 2E[/quote]

When attacking others, it is a good idea to know the facts yourself. TESO takes place 1000 years before Skyrim, which makes it 800 years before Oblivion and about 780 years before Daggerfall.[/quote]

Not sure where you got I was attacking you from

The time line is what I wrote as a brief over view in a a guide of why ESO fits in, The Second Era lasts almost 900 years and the 3rd era lasts 440 years ....
It's around 1340 years from the start of ESO (2E) to the end oblivions story which heads into Skyrim (4E)

Maybe I over rounded the numbers a bit, it was 4am when I wrote the timeline and it was only as a rough guide.

Noth

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

DBHAShadow wrote: »

Well they -are- spinoff games, so I don't think they are expected to play out the same way.

And this is a spin off as it is not a numbered title. So you shouldn't expect it to play the same as the numbered series.

Anoteros

nerd epeen flexing is hilarious.
Forgetting one important thing: THIS IS A MMORPG.

amm7sb14_ESO

Noth wrote: »

And this is a spin off as it is not a numbered title. So you shouldn't expect it to play the same as the numbered series.

And it doesn't. And I don't like it nearly as much. It does nothing that made me a fan of Elder Scrolls in the first place. It's a rather generic MMO with the Elder Scrolls name printed on the box, and not much else.

Noth

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Noth wrote: »

And this is a spin off as it is not a numbered title. So you shouldn't expect it to play the same as the numbered series.

And it doesn't. And I don't like it nearly as much. It does nothing that made me a fan of Elder Scrolls in the first place. It's a rather generic MMO with the Elder Scrolls name printed on the box, and not much else.

That doesn't make it not an ES game though.

Squishy

repflope wrote: »

I find the game poorly written that the alliances are fighting and its obvious that the anchors are causing major dremora invasion. Like you had time to war each other when the Daedra princes were on you?

Well, later in the game, there is an exaplaining and you get to meet the leaders of each faction, and get them to speak to one another. There is a move toward peace,which of course fails, and I think the explanation works fine to be honest. In short, people and leader are stupid, and unwilling to trust others.

Nightstrider

It is set in the lands, the times, the history. It contains the creatures, the cultures, the races. It has all of the lore, the divinities, the mudcrabs, for pete's sake. It's an ELDER SCROLLS GAME. It may not be the freeform solofest that you enjoy, but it IS AN ELDER SCROLLS GAME. Hell, I miss the spell crafting I was able to do in much earlier ES games, too. Underwater breathing for 3 mins, blue glowing light for 2.5 mins, put them together as one spell, and you know when you're breathing spell needs a refresher because your light starts failing. Fireballs with soul traps attached... I get it. I do. We haven't had that in over a decade though. Look at skyrim, you had THREE slots on your "skillbar." Attack Left, Attack Right, Spell/special. At least we get six, in ESO.

ESO is as much of an Elder Scrolls game as Daggerfall was. I even looked for where my old Daggerfall house would have been, where I stored all of my artwork and treasures!

VeriusNox

Seems like most of your questions and concerns would be solved if you actually played the game instead of whining on a forum.

amm7sb14_ESO

Noth wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Noth wrote: »

And this is a spin off as it is not a numbered title. So you shouldn't expect it to play the same as the numbered series.

And it doesn't. And I don't like it nearly as much. It does nothing that made me a fan of Elder Scrolls in the first place. It's a rather generic MMO with the Elder Scrolls name printed on the box, and not much else.

That doesn't make it not an ES game though.

Okay?

The point is, what is the appeal of ELDER SCROLLS ONLINE if it doesn't have anything that drew me into Elder Scrolls in the first place?

It may have the world, races, and lore, and that's great. But it has nothing that has made the Elder Scrolls series so appealing in the first place. So whatever you want to call that, I call it "disappointing" in the very least.

Saerydoth

All these arguments, and I haven't yet seen an "argument" against this being an Elder Scrolls game that doesn't boil down to the No True Scotsman logical fallacy.

If you don't like it, then maybe an MMO isn't the right type of game for you. An MMO cannot have all of the elements of the single player ES games, changes have to be made in order to make this an MMO. But I think they did a fantastic job preserving the Elder Scrolls elements, while also making it an MMO that doesn't copy WOW.

No, not everyone has the same tastes. Not everyone is going to like it. But I am really enjoying the game, and it certainly feels like an ES title to me. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but saying it isn't an ES game because you don't like it boils down to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_scotsman

bantad87

All the elder scrolls games, prior to Skyrim, had a class based system initially. You either chose a pre-generated class that gave you bonuses in certain stats, or you created your own. OP is smoking again.

amm7sb14_ESO

Saerydoth wrote: »

All these arguments, and I haven't yet seen an "argument" against this being an Elder Scrolls game that doesn't boil down to the No True Scotsman logical fallacy.

If you don't like it, then maybe an MMO isn't the right type of game for you. An MMO cannot have all of the elements of the single player ES games, changes have to be made in order to make this an MMO. But I think they did a fantastic job preserving the Elder Scrolls elements, while also making it an MMO that doesn't copy WOW.

No, not everyone has the same tastes. Not everyone is going to like it. But I am really enjoying the game, and it certainly feels like an ES title to me. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but saying it isn't an ES game because you don't like it boils down to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_scotsman

I'm glad you enjoy it. And to say I'm getting -no- enjoyment from it would be a lie.

But just as it would be wrong for me to dismiss your opinion that you love the game and feel it does the Elder Scrolls series justice, I think it's just as wrong to dismiss the opinion of those of us who are disappointed because we don't feel this game captures the elements that make Elder Scrolls a great series to begin with.

I have no desire to change your opinion, or to convince anyone else that this game sucks. It is what it is, and people who like it will continue to play it, and if I am not getting what I feel to be my money's worth, I will cancel my subscription and move on to something else.

I do mostly agree with you that an MMO is a completely different beast from a single player game, and as such, cannot capture the same elements of the single player series. And it is in that regard that I never really had much anticipation or expectation for this game. And it is in that regard that perhaps Elder Scrolls should have remained a single player game and not delved into the MMO world if it can't do justice to what makes the single player games great.

I also don't 100% agree that the aspects that make the single player game great can't translate to an MMO. Star Wars Galaxies did a great job of maintaining freedom and a sandbox world that offered much choice and diversity not entirely dissimilar to the Elder Scrolls single player games, with obvious differences and restrictions of course. And while you may point to SWG's ultimate failure, I will point to the fact that that game never became a failure until it completely changed its structure to become a WOW clone in space.

And now, unfortunately, with only a few differences, thus far this game feels like a WOW clone in Tamriel.

I will admit, I am slowly liking it more and more the more I play. And I haven't even delved into the PVP aspects of it yet, so perhaps this game has a lot more to offer me than I have experienced thus far. But early returns for me are "Eh, it's fun, but doesn't really capture my attention, and doesn't do anything that drew me into the Elder Scrolls series in the first place".

Noth

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Noth wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Noth wrote: »

And this is a spin off as it is not a numbered title. So you shouldn't expect it to play the same as the numbered series.

And it doesn't. And I don't like it nearly as much. It does nothing that made me a fan of Elder Scrolls in the first place. It's a rather generic MMO with the Elder Scrolls name printed on the box, and not much else.

That doesn't make it not an ES game though.

Okay?

The point is, what is the appeal of ELDER SCROLLS ONLINE if it doesn't have anything that drew me into Elder Scrolls in the first place?

It may have the world, races, and lore, and that's great. But it has nothing that has made the Elder Scrolls series so appealing in the first place. So whatever you want to call that, I call it "disappointing" in the very least.

The point of it being an ES game is the lore, races, creatures, setting, things that have been in all ES games. You obviously liked ES for something other than all those things. that does not make it not an ES game though. We've known what this game was going to be like for a long time. You are the only one to blame on thinking it was going to be like the numbered series.

Taleof2Cities

@repflope - Lots of excellent points, OP, I applaud you sir. I am an ES fan myself and wanted to repost one of the main points in your opening thread.

- Immersion

I realize that immersion is subjective ... some of the other forum-goers have already commented on that point. However, I really miss the attention to detail that is the trademark of an Elder Scrolls game. Bookshelves are essentially only one "book". There's hardly any clutter. The clutter that is in the game isn't something that can be added to inventory. I even miss the inadvertent bumping into a moveable objects ... such as dropped weapons or urns. I can collect high-end loot, say, from Bangkorai. However, I can't even use it because I'm not a high enough level. For that matter, geographic regions are leveled instead of the quests and enemies. So you can't really "go where your character takes you" in terms of doing quests.

So, I still am enjoying the game ... which is a different sort of feeling than some of the other ES fans out there. However, I sympathize enough with those fans because those hallmarks of an ES game have gone missing. That's why I felt it was important to post on this thread.

Corithna

For me, the most basic aspect of these game have been the fact that they incorporate both a physical combat system, I.E. raise your shield to block, swing your sword to hit, along side a magic/ranged combat system. On top of that it incorporates an aiming system(far too forgiving imo, but I understand why it is as it is.) Tying all of this into a game that also allows players to exist on a massive scale in the same play space is an incredible feat that deserves respect and praise, not a constant stream of tantrum laden posts.

Yes many concessions had to be made for mechanics that simply do not translate from single player to online. The very fact that you can not pause an online experience was a major contributing factor to this. And no as a player you can not usurp the designers *game master, and generate you own world to play in god mode, or ramp up the difficulty to suit your own personal preference. But really these are reasonable concessions that are given up in return for the fact that you get to play this title with many other people. Whether that's a blessing or a curse is really a matter of opinion and personal experience.

As far as features seen in most other mmo's what needs to be realized here is that this is an elder scrolls game first and foremost. Not an standard mmo with an ES skin, but really and truly an elder scrolls game. This has been the design concept from the very beginning. Assumptions aside, early beta access that saw some different systems in play that were put there as place holders until more sophisticated systems could be put into place. ESO has always been and will always be the next chapter in the elder scrolls universe. Keeping that in mind, what was designed was an ES game that matched previous titles as best as possible while also incorporating only what absolutely had to be put into the game so that it would function with many players online at once. This is not my opinion this is what has been stated time and time and time again over and over again by Zenimax in interview after interview, video after video, press release after press release.

And so what we have is what we have, and it's a pretty damned good product no matter what metric you use.

Azzuria

rayvn03b14_ESO wrote: »

Laura wrote: »

as an old woman who has played since arena (arena being one of my first video games) I think that oblivion (and skyrim) were bigger bastardizations of the franchise than this game is. In fact I think this game is much closer to the original games than those two are and Is still love them.

You sound like the same silly grumpy people who were raising a tizzy over morrowind.... then oblivion... then skyrim... and those were great games too.

The franchise changes all the time sometimes for the better sometimes for the worse. I think a lot was done to keep this game massively and I still love it. I can adapt and I am almost 50 years old. If the franchise stayed the same every single time it would get pretty stale.

Nobody is taking your elder scrolls away - this is like a spinoff so enjoy it for what it is.


literally this argument has been made for almost every single ES game and it needs to stop. Even the damn mobile games...

Agreed on all the above. grumpy old lady here pushing 50, too. I've played since daggerfall (went back and played Arena in 1999) and while they all have flaws, each has its own charm. ESO is no exception.

Grumpy old-ish ladies of Tamriel Unite!!

44 year young woman here and, having cut my ES teeth on Skyrim and watching my best friend play Oblivion, my perception of ESO are a bit skewed. As a die-hard fan of MMOs with a deep and abiding affection for Skyrim, I find this game sufficiently Skyrim-ish and, at the same time, different enough from other MMOs to satisfy both hankerings.

cliveklgb14_ESO

And actually later in the game (mid levels) you get to make individual choices on quests that either support a particular Daedra objective or not.

Not the main plot of Molog Bal trying to yank Nirn into Oblivion (which would be kind of ridiculous given the starting story), but you do get to side with other Daedra.

And in Alik'r there is a part of a town over run by Daedra.

amm7sb14_ESO

Noth wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Noth wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Noth wrote: »

And this is a spin off as it is not a numbered title. So you shouldn't expect it to play the same as the numbered series.

And it doesn't. And I don't like it nearly as much. It does nothing that made me a fan of Elder Scrolls in the first place. It's a rather generic MMO with the Elder Scrolls name printed on the box, and not much else.

That doesn't make it not an ES game though.

Okay?

The point is, what is the appeal of ELDER SCROLLS ONLINE if it doesn't have anything that drew me into Elder Scrolls in the first place?

It may have the world, races, and lore, and that's great. But it has nothing that has made the Elder Scrolls series so appealing in the first place. So whatever you want to call that, I call it "disappointing" in the very least.

The point of it being an ES game is the lore, races, creatures, setting, things that have been in all ES games. You obviously liked ES for something other than all those things. that does not make it not an ES game though. We've known what this game was going to be like for a long time. You are the only one to blame on thinking it was going to be like the numbered series.

We're gonna have to agree to disagree, because where you think this is a fine example of an Elder Scrolls game, I feel that it is a generic MMO in an Elder Scrolls skin with none of the definitive features of the Elder Scrolls series.

It might be an Elder Scrolls game by definition, but I feel it's rather pointless if you are going to take a property, and make a product that doesn't utilize a single definitive trait from the property you're working with.

Different strokes. You're enjoying it. I hope that I develop that enjoyment as well. I'm slowly liking it more, but in my own humble opinion, this is not a product worthy of the Elder Scrolls legacy and name.

kemp.garretub17_ESO1

Is this really nessasary at this point everyone knows that this isn't skyrim online its a mmo (one that I like but still)

cliveklgb14_ESO

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

We're gonna have to agree to disagree

Why is it someone always says this when they can't prove their argument, or have had their argument completely invalidated.

SivBarkuda

I mostly agree with the OP.
We can quibble about details, but the details aren't the point.
The points are:
- the player doesn't have the choices open at start that have been open at start in the preceding ES games. (These choices are limited, because of story, but there was no compelling reason for the story to be written that way, that was a developer choice)
- the player is compelled to fight in a narrow MMO style character box, more open than most, but not the open ended options ES has had before (some options had to be trimmed down, because this is an MMO, but there was no need to put destruction magic on a two hand staff. There was nothing wrong with LMB right hand, RMB left hand)
- Fallout plays more like Elder Scrolls than ESO.
- never needed to defeat mechanics to beat a boss in an ES game, but that starts with level 8 Doshia, in ESO

So, while a lot of people may love this game, it doesn't play enough like the Elder Scrolls I got used to.
Y'all have fun with out me.

amm7sb14_ESO

cliveklgb14_ESO wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

We're gonna have to agree to disagree

Why is it someone always says this when they can't prove their argument, or have had their argument completely invalidated.

It's an opinion, there's nothing to prove or to invalidate...

The fact that you feel the need to "invalidate" my opinion speaks more about you than it does me.

I'm not here to convince you that I'm right and you're wrong, or anything else. If you like the game, then awesome! I'm glad you enjoy it, and I hope to someday reach that level of happiness with the product.

I don't enjoy it all that much currently, and these are my reasons why. Don't like my reasons? Not my problem. I'm not here to convince you to hate the game.