ES game that is not truly an ES game

repflope

Hello all,

I am MMORPG veteran and big fan of ES franchise. I loved the single player games to bits. That made me expect much of the game. There are several things that ES brand games should have:

- Open world exploration
- Open class system
- Staying true to elder scroll franchise things such a spell schools
- Staying true to elder scroll franchise able to chose to side with daedra
- Immersion
- User shared content

As I started the game. I quickly found out that first of all ESO lacks even SEMI open world exploration due to alliance split up. That does not only tear the Tamriel into bits but also splits up friends into different sides unable to play each other. Lore wise these alliances seems unstable not lore friendly. What makes it even worse is that this is one of the first decision player has to do. And in character creation there is very little information for player what does the choosing of alliance have.

As you choose alliance different sides end up in their MMORPG factory tube where people are molded slowly for the end game. As I inspected the map it seemed that each alliance was more or less stuck in their style areas: Aldremi dominion area mainly in flush forests, Ebonheart pact are in north with little bit of mix of forests and snow. Daggerfall covenant get lot of deserts. This makes it difficult for me to enjoy any side since it gives very little change in the atmosphere. In every other ES game you have been free to go where you want whenever you want having change in scenery whenever.. I understand that such is not possible in such MMO game but I would at least expect that each player would see bit of all of those lands on their play through!

Another thing that disappointed me a lot has been the class system. What are sorcerers? What are dragon knights?!? There has been MMO games in the past that used open class system successfully in the past such as UO and AC1. That were really good and nice games. Why did ESO have to take back step to this stupid class system that does not have any sense? Since the game lacks open class system such things as spell schools are missing. Which make me unhappy. I can understand that the game needs little bit of simplification but please NO CLASSES and please add spell schools. Also the classes are generalized so much because of the shared skills that the classes are quite pointless to begin with.

Then the ability to be able to side with Daedra. One of the worst features of the game for me is the start up tutorial. Titanborn manages to step on EVERY trap completely breaking my immersion and these traps that are not traps but some automatic spike pumping machines. Game suggest you to sneak, why? What does it help? Does it allow you to avoid traps? No. Does it allow you to avoid fight? Really no since the place where its suggested basically makes you to be face to face with this zombie. Why the player is forced to take side against molag bal? Why is the player forced to side with these lame heroes that make me puke? Why there are anchors in the world that are ingame structures that the anchors seems to everytime spawn? Who build them? Why the anchors don't get destroyed? There are just one of the worst threat to every living being and instead the races would understand the threat of the daedra they chose to war each other? Please WHAT IS THE SENSE OF THIS!

As elder scroll fan and MMORPG veteran I understand that there are awful bugs at the start of each game so I will let other do the ranting for the bugs. I am pissed because I bought ES game which is not an ES game. That lacks immersion and those aspects of ES games that I expect of the brand. Not a lowsy WOW,RIFT,GW copy. Fact is that anchors are cheap copies of RIFT events. Cheap copies that the game had been better without. The fact also is that ESO has been tried to build as MMORPG in similar design as WOW. Faction split, battleground. With spice of faction / story quest from GW. Sadly the main story and mage and fighter guild quests and npcs are shared over the alliances. Making you play over same things over again no matter side you play.

More hardcore feature I was also expecting was user shared content. We have got addon support which is really good. And for launch of the game honestly I would not expect more. There are still people playing old bethesda games creating great content for them. They have also become trademark of the ES games and as ESO would get older I would expect people to be able at least to puff up the graphics.

Sorry Zenimax and Bethesda. I am disappointed to ESO. Bethesda for not controlling its brand to stay true to its trademarks. And Zenimax developers for obviously not ever playing any ES brand games. So for me ESO is average MMORPG game that if it was not branded ES game I could give its score of say 85 out of 100. But the fact that its ES brand game. Gives me expectations how the game should be. As elder scroll game, since it does not fulfill many of the expectations I have I could give it 70 out of 100 at best.

Signed,
Disappointed ES fan.

SirAndy

How far have you gotten? Because once you reach level 50, you are free to explore the other faction lands with your character.

I like the current setup. The fact that you have to chose an alliance is a good thing and gives the player a sense of belonging in the story and the alliance war.

I think it would be much more unrealistic if players from different factions could simply roam all of Tamriel together. That would make no sense what-so-ever.

And on top of that, you have 8 character slots available. I made three characters, one in each faction, and i play all 3 of them because i want to explore the faction lands from low level to high level regardless of the ability to cross faction lands later.

To me, all that is in fact a huge plus and not a negative at all!

And yes, i'm a TES fan since Arena was new ...
;-)

jaytrill11ub17_ESO

Dear fellow gamer, I commend your for the write up on something most of us are quite passionate about. Frankly though it appears you logged in expecting Skyrim(morrowind,etc) Online. They had to make the changes you mentioned for the sake of balance mostly. I feel the game is in the perfect place between a mix of MMO and Elder Scrolls. Would I like open classes and spell schools ABSOULUTELY! but I aslo understand why they did what they did. Don't get me wrong I feel where you are coming from I really do and it would be great if that was the case. Taking the game for what its worth I am satisfied with what was presented and justifiably there will be those like you who wont, its the nature of the beast.

Shanna

Having played through several betas, and then the early access week (before being locked out since Sunday), I think I slowly lost remembrance of what my original expectations were. I vaguely recall feeling similar to the poster at one time.

repflope

SirAndy wrote: »

How far have you gotten? Because once you reach level 50, you are free to explore the other faction lands with your character.

I like the current setup. The fact that you have to chose an alliance is a good thing and gives the player a sense of belonging in the story and the alliance war.

I think it would be much more unrealistic if players from different factions could simply roam all of Tamriel together. The would make no sense what-so-ever.

You say that "its unrealistic if different factions could roam Tamriel" that you like the current setup and at the other sentence you tell me that you can roam Tamriel when you are level 50. Make up your mind..

Why do we have different factions? What elder scroll game forced you to chose faction at the first step? In skyrim you could postpone choosing your faction until how long you wanted.

Factions ruin ESO because of many reasons. I am already split of my friends. Those friends that have not joined ESO yet would not probably come to my side either because everyone have their different preferences. You have social game that has feature that basically split people 3 ways. I found WOW concept very much more favorable where you started from your race home and then got to your faction main cities. Yes you had to chose side but you could go to whatever side of the world you wanted.

Akula

I like it the way it is, so I vote no.

repflope

jaytrill11ub17_ESO wrote: »

Dear fellow gamer, I commend your for the write up on something most of us are quite passionate about. Frankly though it appears you logged in expecting Skyrim(morrowind,etc) Online. They had to make the changes you mentioned for the sake of balance mostly. I feel the game is in the perfect place between a mix of MMO and Elder Scrolls. Would I like open classes and spell schools ABSOULUTELY! but I aslo understand why they did what they did. Don't get me wrong I feel where you are coming from I really do and it would be great if that was the case. Taking the game for what its worth I am satisfied with what was presented and justifiably there will be those like you who wont, its the nature of the beast.

Open class system is not easy piece of pie. But it has been in UO that used to be VERY successful game. It has been in AC1 that was and has been one of the most amazing mmorpgs I used to play. UO had faction warfare. It was heavy PVP game. It was in balance. Sure it had not been easy. But its ES brand and what I expect of it.

I am unhappy to play warrior and tank. That has mana and stamina. Mostly it works fine but all the skills you have are active / in combat ones. I liked ES games yes that they had that but I could in those games ignore either stamina or mana. Its more difficult in ESO. You need to use every bit of your resources. Since all skills are in combat. There are no buffs that I could use mana for just combat skills. No summons nada. Fine I could play sorcerer summon one of those horrible creatures that do not feel anything like ES. But no thank you.

CTraveler

Going to take this one step at a time here...

repflope wrote: »

As I started the game. I quickly found out that first of all ESO lacks even SEMI open world exploration due to alliance split up. That does not only tear the Tamriel into bits but also splits up friends into different sides unable to play each other. Lore wise these alliances seems unstable not lore friendly. What makes it even worse is that this is one of the first decision player has to do. And in character creation there is very little information for player what does the choosing of alliance have.

As you choose alliance different sides end up in their MMORPG factory tube where people are molded slowly for the end game. As I inspected the map it seemed that each alliance was more or less stuck in their style areas: Aldremi dominion area mainly in flush forests, Ebonheart pact are in north with little bit of mix of forests and snow. Daggerfall covenant get lot of deserts. This makes it difficult for me to enjoy any side since it gives very little change in the atmosphere. In every other ES game you have been free to go where you want whenever you want having change in scenery whenever.. I understand that such is not possible in such MMO game but I would at least expect that each player would see bit of all of those lands on their play through!

Tamriel IS at war, and the factions thing makes sense. These Alliances have been Known to exist in previous games, TESV: Skyrim mentions the Aldmeri Dominion by name. The war of the Second Era has also been well known in the past, and it's known that it ends by Tiber Septim ascending.

Playing once certain quest as an Aldmeri character, I *have* been teleported to a Skyrim style dungeon and a Redguard desert location. Plus, once you reach Level 50, you're able to explore the other alliance locations. I understand that it feels stressful not to be able to visit *all* of Tamriel as of right now, but the devs have to keep content in mind for future updates.

Another thing that disappointed me a lot has been the class system. What game of the ES brand had classes? What are sorcerers? What are dragonknights?!? All ES games have been open class! There has been MMO games in the past that used open class system successfully in the past such as UO and AC1. That were really good and nice games. Why did ESO have to take step to this stupid class system that does not have any sense in ES brand? Since the game lacks ES open class system such things as spell schools are missing. Which make me unhappy. I can understand that the game needs little bit of simplification but please NO CLASSES and please add spell schools.

ESO is more open than you think. The point of these classes is not to have some pre-defined mold to use, but to build up your own character in a uniquely different way. The classes really just are more to give you a general, rather small set of skills that show what kind of character you're looking to be in general. Nightblade for stealth, Dragonknight for Fire attacks and armor spells, Sorcerer for Lightning and summoning.

On the spell schools, you've got a point there. But as I see it, generally, the schools have been split across the classes in ways that they generally got grouped together in my experiences, anyways.

Then the ability to be able to side with Daedra. One of the worst features of the game for me is the start up tutorial. Titanborn manages to step on EVERY trap completely breaking my immersion and these traps that are not traps but some automatic spike pumping machines. Game suggest you to sneak, why? What does it help? Does it allow you to avoid traps? No. Does it allow you to avoid fight? Really no since the place where its suggested basically makes you to be face to face with this zombie. Why the player is forced to take side against molag bal? Why is the player forced to side with these lame heroes that make me puke? Why there are anchors in the world that are ingame structures that the anchors seems to everytime spawn? Who build them? Why the anchors don't get destroyed? There are just one of the worst threat to every living being and instead the races would understand the threat of the daedra they chose to war each other? Please WHAT IS THE SENSE OF THIS!

And Lyris stepping on traps is different from Skyrim's followers doing the same...How exactly?

You *Can* disable traps by sneaking and activating the traps.

Molag Bal is trying to merge Nirn and Coldharbour into one.... and he *Stole Your Soul* to do it.

The Reason the Races are Fighting Each-other is because Molag Bal is working to KEEP it that way. He doesn't *Want* Tamriel providing a united front, hence, he drove a wedge in between the alliances and are having his minions provoking them to fight! It's only neutral parties to the war like the Fighters Guild that fight against the Anchors, because they realize the threat that is hiding behind the surface.

He doesn't just use Dark Anchors either, there are many Dark Fissures/Rifts that he splits open and throws Daedra through. These are small-scale anchors, but have no physical items to destroy.

As a plot point though, the physical anchors ARE what are dragging the worlds together.... And at the rate that Molag Bal's minions activate the deactivated ones, it's rather hard to tear the structures down.

As elder scroll fan and MMORPG veteran I understand that there are awful bugs at the start of each game so I will let other do the ranting for the bugs. I am pissed because I bought ES game which is not an ES game. That lacks immersion and those aspects of ES games that I expect of the brand. Not a lowsy WOW,RIFT,GW copy. Fact is that anchors are cheap copies of RIFT events. Cheap copies that the game had been better without. The fact also is that ESO has been tried to build as MMORPG in similar design as WOW. Faction split, battleground. With spice of faction / story quest from GW. Sadly the main story and mage and fighter guild quests and npcs are shared over the alliances. Making you play over same things over again no matter side you play.

And what about Oblivion's titular Gates? The concept of giant portals/rifts/events occurring between dimensions wasn't new even with Rift. Even if it wasn't common knowledge, there was definitely a story out there somewhere before it with a similar mechanic.

More hardcore feature I was also expecting was user shared content. We have got addon support which is really good. And for launch of the game honestly I would not expect more. There are still people playing old bethesda games creating great content for them. They have also become trademark of the ES games and as ESO would get older I would expect people to be able at least to puff up the graphics.

Chill out, the game's only been out for a week. How long did Skyrim take to get its Creation Kit out to the public? I don't remember exactly, but I recall it taking a while!

Sorry Zenimax and Bethesda. I am disappointed to ESO. Bethesda for not controlling its brand to stay true to its trademarks. And Zenimax developers for obviously not ever playing any ES brand games. So for me ESO is average MMORPG game that if it was not branded ES game I could give its score of say 85 out of 100. But the fact that its ES brand game. Gives me expectations how the game should be. As elder scroll game, since it does not fulfill many of the expectations I have I could give it 70 out of 100 at best.

Signed,
Disappointed ES fan.

I'm sorry you feel that way. ESO is very much an Elder Scrolls game for me. I just hope some of this helps answer your questions.

repflope

Akula wrote: »

I like it the way it is, so I vote no.

Its not a bad game. Point is its ES brand game. ESO != ES. Its not game I expected to pay. I am unhappy that I bought the game. Not because its buggy. But because its not ES game.

And I know I am not alone in these thoughts.

chipz88b14_ESO

I'm not sure this the right place for this (though tbh the forums setup make it such that I'm not sure there IS a right place for this), but I'll reply anyway.

I don't disagree. I am also a passionate Elder Scrolls fan, but far from a MMO veteran. I might have never played another MMO since Runescape (the only other I've ever played) if it weren't for this game. Your points have merit, but I think this game has merit in its own right.

The first beta I participated in, I felt pretty underwhelmed. There was no truly open world, I couldn't interact with everything I laid my eyes on and besides the lore it just didn't feel much like an Elder Scrolls game.

By the end of the first beta it was pretty clear to me WHY it couldn't be what I thought it would be: from a technical and gameplay perspective, there is simply no way to reconcile a true Elder Scrolls experience with a MMO. Something that complex and intricate simply can't exist in an online world where thousands (millions?) are stomping all over it. Besides, half the fun an Elder Scrolls game is modding it (if you're playing on a console, you're doing it wrong) and there's obviously no modding this game (beyond lua scripting the UI).

When I first heard of an Elder Scrolls MMO I had mixed feelings... I never really wanted it to become a MMO because I didn't play MMOs, but at the same time I felt like I couldn't NOT play an Elder Scrolls game just because it was a MMO. And in that regard I kind of still feel the same way: it's a decent game in it's own right, but the Elder Scrolls franchise is really the selling point. But I don't feel that it's craptastic game making sales solely on licensing the franchise: it IS a decent game in its own right.

I'll probably play the game until I've finished all the quests for all the factions (which will probably take a while since I'm a casual player) and after that, who knows. What I do know is that this game doesn't make me want to see TES VI one iota less and they damn sure better not be thinking releasing a MMO means they won't do the SP games anymore.

So I'm here kind of defending the game because I think it's decent in its own right (even if it IS a red herring in the Elder Scrolls franchise). But in a way I'm kind of glad of that - I hope it will make people see that bringing the things that makes The Elder Scrolls so special to a MMO just isn't going to happen - it's a pipe dream. I'll play the game until I've had my fill, but damn it, I STILL NEED TES VI.

Laura

as an old woman who has played since arena (arena being one of my first video games) I think that oblivion (and skyrim) were bigger bastardizations of the franchise than this game is. In fact I think this game is much closer to the original games than those two are and Is still love them.

You sound like the same silly grumpy people who were raising a tizzy over morrowind.... then oblivion... then skyrim... and those were great games too.

The franchise changes all the time sometimes for the better sometimes for the worse. I think a lot was done to keep this game massively and I still love it. I can adapt and I am almost 50 years old. If the franchise stayed the same every single time it would get pretty stale.

Nobody is taking your elder scrolls away - this is like a spinoff so enjoy it for what it is.


literally this argument has been made for almost every single ES game and it needs to stop. Even the damn mobile games...

Shanna

Laura wrote: »

as an old woman who has played since arena (arena being one of my first video games) I think that oblivion (and skyrim) were bigger bastardizations of the franchise than this game is.

I agree. I was so, SO, excited for a followup to Morrowind. But after playing Oblivion for only a short while, I quit in disgust. I did the same thing with Skyrim. It seemed to me like they were progressively dumbing the game down hardcore. I only finally and recently finished both of those while waiting eagerly for ESO to come out.

Funny, tho, I tried to replay Morrowind (on console) around the same time, and I couldn't believe how antiquated the controls had come to feel.

repflope

CTraveler wrote: »

Going to take this one step at a time here...

Tamriel IS at war, and the factions thing makes sense. These Alliances have been Known to exist in previous games, TESV: Skyrim mentions the Aldmeri Dominion by name. The war of the Second Era has also been well known in the past, and it's known that it ends by Tiber Septim ascending.

Playing once certain quest as an Aldmeri character, I *have* been teleported to a Skyrim style dungeon and a Redguard desert location. Plus, once you reach Level 50, you're able to explore the other alliance locations. I understand that it feels stressful not to be able to visit *all* of Tamriel as of right now, but the devs have to keep content in mind for future updates.

Tamriel has also not been in war at different time of the lore. Thats not excuse for implementing the alliances. They could have chosen different time in the timeline.

I find the game poorly written that the alliances are fighting and its obvious that the anchors are causing major dremora invasion. Like you had time to war each other when the Daedra princes were on you?

I played all sides up until about level 10 now and yes you get teleported predefined places in your quest when its written in the game. That is not ES that is WOW and MMORPG tube.

CTraveler wrote: »

ESO is more open than you think. The point of these classes is not to have some pre-defined mold to use, but to build up your own character in a uniquely different way. The classes really just are more to give you a general, rather small set of skills that show what kind of character you're looking to be in general. Nightblade for stealth, Dragonknight for Fire attacks and armor spells, Sorcerer for Lightning and summoning.

On the spell schools, you've got a point there. But as I see it, generally, the schools have been split across the classes in ways that they generally got grouped together in my experiences, anyways.

I played dozen of MMO games seen dozen of different implementations and ESOs implementation is the worst I have seen so far. Because of console support everything has been simplified. No matter if you use dual wield, staff, 2h, sword & shield. You always have same keybinds. That for example makes it for me pointless to play dual wield character because the control and feel is almost exactly the same as its when I play with 2h.

What comes to the diversity of the classes. Dragonknight has superior damage migitation and no other class can beat it. Templar has superior heals and so on.

CTraveler wrote: »

And Lyris stepping on traps is different from Skyrim's followers doing the same...How exactly?

In skyrim you could get follower mod or script new ai when it bothered you too much.

CTraveler wrote: »

You *Can* disable traps by sneaking and activating the traps.

That is not very clear and I see that the tutorial fails telling that to me and every other people I saw in the tutorial zone.

CTraveler wrote: »

Molag Bal is trying to merge Nirn and Coldharbour into one.... and he *Stole Your Soul* to do it.

The Reason the Races are Fighting Each-other is because Molag Bal is working to KEEP it that way. He doesn't *Want* Tamriel providing a united front, hence, he drove a wedge in between the alliances and are having his minions provoking them to fight! It's only neutral parties to the war like the Fighters Guild that fight against the Anchors, because they realize the threat that is hiding behind the surface.

This bit of lore does not seem feasable or believable at all. Deadra make too serious threat. It should be minority of Tamriel dividing fihting each other and major part fighting daedra not other way around.

CTraveler wrote: »

He doesn't just use Dark Anchors either, there are many Dark Fissures/Rifts that he splits open and throws Daedra through. These are small-scale anchors, but have no physical items to destroy.

As a plot point though, the physical anchors ARE what are dragging the worlds together.... And at the rate that Molag Bal's minions activate the deactivated ones, it's rather hard to tear the structures down.

And what about Oblivion's titular Gates? The concept of giant portals/rifts/events occurring between dimensions wasn't new even with Rift. Even if it wasn't common knowledge, there was definitely a story out there somewhere before it with a similar mechanic.

For dragging the world together these anchors are not big enough. Its also very lame that there are clearly build and well instructed stone buildings that don't resemble at all Daedric origin but men made well.

CTraveler wrote: »

Chill out, the game's only been out for a week. How long did Skyrim take to get its Creation Kit out to the public? I don't remember exactly, but I recall it taking a while!

I spoke of expectations of ES game. I also said that I did not expect anything more from launch.

CTraveler wrote: »

Sorry Zenimax and Bethesda. I am disappointed to ESO. Bethesda for not controlling its brand to stay true to its trademarks. And Zenimax developers for obviously not ever playing any ES brand games. So for me ESO is average MMORPG game that if it was not branded ES game I could give its score of say 85 out of 100. But the fact that its ES brand game. Gives me expectations how the game should be. As elder scroll game, since it does not fulfill many of the expectations I have I could give it 70 out of 100 at best.

Signed,
Disappointed ES fan.

I'm sorry you feel that way. ESO is very much an Elder Scrolls game for me. I just hope some of this helps answer your questions.

Your comments have been constructive and it has been nice to be able to talk this with you. ESO has right now patient and nice people and I enjoyed playing with others. ESO is not bad game, its just not worth for me since other games do the same things better that ESO try to do.

repflope

Laura wrote: »

as an old woman who has played since arena (arena being one of my first video games) I think that oblivion (and skyrim) were bigger bastardizations of the franchise than this game is. In fact I think this game is much closer to the original games than those two are and Is still love them.

You sound like the same silly grumpy people who were raising a tizzy over morrowind.... then oblivion... then skyrim... and those were great games too.

The franchise changes all the time sometimes for the better sometimes for the worse. I think a lot was done to keep this game massively and I still love it. I can adapt and I am almost 50 years old. If the franchise stayed the same every single time it would get pretty stale.

Nobody is taking your elder scrolls away - this is like a spinoff so enjoy it for what it is.

literally this argument has been made for almost every single ES game and it needs to stop. Even the damn mobile games...

Sadly I never had the chance to play the first ES games. And now the time has ran over them. I have played Oblivion, Morrowing and Skyrim. For countless hours and each of those games made me happy and excited. Each sequel has been nice and up until this ESO fiasco I have been looking up until TES VI. Now I am not sure truly not sure. I know Zenimax Online is not Bethesda. But Bethesda still had a say what this game become since its their brand. Now I am afraid if they will try to please "ESO" fans in the next game. Since its so big disappointment for me I will most likely wait until I get it cheap and hear the first reviews.

This game is not spinoff its "elder scrolls online". It should stand behind that name and not be "wanna be wow/rift/gw".

What comes to mobile games. I work in that field. And I agree that many games have been mistreated in the platform. And each gaming company should consider twice how they utilize that platform.

supernickx

MMO based in ES lore. It's an MMO first, ES game second. It sounds like you're disappointed that the game isn't some kind of replica of previous ES games.

To expect that is ludicrous - there is just so much about those games that would in no way translate to an MMO experience. You also spoke of "skill based" experiences like UO and AC.. those games were balance disasters and never really got balanced. Again, it's an unfair comparison.

Someone I know stopped playing the game because he couldn't stealth the entire game and one shot mobs with a bow - that's the type of expectation he should have never walked in wanting.

It sounds like your expectations were set entirely too high and you disappointed yourself by wanting the impossible.

Sorry that the game didn't deliver for you - for me, it's awesome. I want an MMO which is fun and delivers content; ESO delivered. Bugs and shortcomings get fixed within the first few months so I'm sure I can cope with the odd broken quest.

rayvn03b14_ESO

Laura wrote: »

as an old woman who has played since arena (arena being one of my first video games) I think that oblivion (and skyrim) were bigger bastardizations of the franchise than this game is. In fact I think this game is much closer to the original games than those two are and Is still love them.

You sound like the same silly grumpy people who were raising a tizzy over morrowind.... then oblivion... then skyrim... and those were great games too.

The franchise changes all the time sometimes for the better sometimes for the worse. I think a lot was done to keep this game massively and I still love it. I can adapt and I am almost 50 years old. If the franchise stayed the same every single time it would get pretty stale.

Nobody is taking your elder scrolls away - this is like a spinoff so enjoy it for what it is.


literally this argument has been made for almost every single ES game and it needs to stop. Even the damn mobile games...

Agreed on all the above. grumpy old lady here pushing 50, too. I've played since daggerfall (went back and played Arena in 1999) and while they all have flaws, each has its own charm. ESO is no exception.

repflope

supernickx wrote: »

MMO based in ES lore. It's an MMO first, ES game second. It sounds like you're disappointed that the game isn't some kind of replica of previous ES games.

To expect that is ludicrous - there is just so much about those games that would in no way translate to an MMO experience. You also spoke of "skill based" experiences like UO and AC.. those games were balance disasters and never really got balanced. Again, it's an unfair comparison.

Its "Elder Scrolls online" nothing more or less. It should stand behind that name. It also seems that the image of MMO games for you is this tube driven games where you go through the game factory.

What comes to UO and AC1. UO is probably more closer to what ESO could be. UO got ruined long time ago. The economy got screwed by felucca. When it became too easy to get items without risk. UO used to be very balanced fun, thrilling, I have still so many fun and exciting memories of it.

AC1 was different, it did has it problems yes. But there was amazing community. Amazing people, so much fun. So much to explore. Yes it was not perfect but it used to be really good game.

I am upset that no one remembers UO, AC1. Everyone expect these games to be these stupid railways that you play through. Exactly what ES brand never was.

supernickx wrote: »

Someone I know stopped playing the game because he couldn't stealth the entire game and one shot mobs with a bow - that's the type of expectation he should have never walked in wanting.

FYI: Thats not what I expect.

supernickx wrote: »

It sounds like your expectations were set entirely too high and you disappointed yourself by wanting the impossible.

These things I spoke of have been done. In other games. Only impossible thing here is your attitude.

supernickx wrote: »

Sorry that the game didn't deliver for you - for me, it's awesome. I want an MMO which is fun and delivers content; ESO delivered. Bugs and shortcomings get fixed within the first few months so I'm sure I can cope with the odd broken quest.

Happy for you,but I would like to have my money back.

randomaffliction66

repflope wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

How far have you gotten? Because once you reach level 50, you are free to explore the other faction lands with your character.

I like the current setup. The fact that you have to chose an alliance is a good thing and gives the player a sense of belonging in the story and the alliance war.

I think it would be much more unrealistic if players from different factions could simply roam all of Tamriel together. The would make no sense what-so-ever.

You say that "its unrealistic if different factions could roam Tamriel" that you like the current setup and at the other sentence you tell me that you can roam Tamriel when you are level 50. Make up your mind..

Why do we have different factions? What elder scroll game forced you to chose faction at the first step? In skyrim you could postpone choosing your faction until how long you wanted.

Factions ruin ESO because of many reasons. I am already split of my friends. Those friends that have not joined ESO yet would not probably come to my side either because everyone have their different preferences. You have social game that has feature that basically split people 3 ways. I found WOW concept very much more favorable where you started from your race home and then got to your faction main cities. Yes you had to chose side but you could go to whatever side of the world you wanted.

My god you all claim to be fans of the elder scrolls franchise yet you fail to grasp basic facts.

i.e This game is set thousands of years before morrowind, oblivion, and skyrim. when the " races " were at war, and this is a fact, there were alliances ( factions ) and they did fight each other, which is a huge reason certain races are despised in every elder scrolls game.

Get your facts right before you complain, if you don't like move on to some thing else, at level 50 you complete the main story line, and gain access to veteran content and you can go through and play each faction on the same character, problem solved.


Define immersion? it's definition for you is clearly different from mine, I love this game, yes it bugs, yes it has it's issues it's a brand new mmo you can't play an mmo and not expect these things..

They did stay true to the elder scrolls franchise, how ever you like many other layers never took the time out to read the lore in each game, because if you had you'd know this game is pretty damn close to quite a few books.


@ the op The lore exists, if you need further proof you need to re-play the single player games, and once you've done that and come back here you need to realize this is an mmo. You claim to be a " Veteran mmo player" yet by your comments your clearly not lol. Evidence of this can be seen in this comment of yours.

"More hardcore feature I was also expecting was user shared content. We have got addon support which is really good. And for launch of the game honestly I would not expect more. There are still people playing old bethesda games creating great content for them. They have also become trademark of the ES games and as ESO would get older I would expect people to be able at least to puff up the graphics. "

You want players to be able to modify the game, not going to happen, this not a single player rpg, this is an mmo, you can not and will not ever be able to modify this game, Addons literally only effect the user interface nothing else, and it will always be that way for mmos, get over it or jump back on your xbox where you feel more comfortable ( or just go back to playing morrowind on your computer where you can actually mod things )_


"Another thing that disappointed me a lot has been the class system. What game of the ES brand had classes? What are sorcerers? What are dragonknights?!? All ES games have been open class! There has been MMO games in the past that used open class system successfully in the past such as UO and AC1. That were really good and nice games. Why did ESO have to take step to this stupid class system that does not have any sense in ES brand? Since the game lacks ES open class system such things as spell schools are missing. Which make me unhappy. I can understand that the game needs little bit of simplification but please NO CLASSES and please add spell schools. "

Your comment above once again lead me to believe you've never played an mmo before? Seriously are you joking are are you just slow, did you really expect an mmo to not have a class system lol?????


the comment bellow is just good for laughs

"Then the ability to be able to side with Daedra. One of the worst features of the game for me is the start up tutorial. Titanborn manages to step on EVERY trap completely breaking my immersion and these traps that are not traps but some automatic spike pumping machines. Game suggest you to sneak, why? What does it help? Does it allow you to avoid traps? No. Does it allow you to avoid fight? Really no since the place where its suggested basically makes you to be face to face with this zombie. Why the player is forced to take side against molag bal? Why is the player forced to side with these lame heroes that make me puke? Why there are anchors in the world that are ingame structures that the anchors seems to everytime spawn? Who build them? Why the anchors don't get destroyed? There are just one of the worst threat to every living being and instead the races would understand the threat of the daedra they chose to war each other? Please WHAT IS THE SENSE OF THIS! "

Your failure as a player doesn't mean the game is broken, the only thing you got right in that comment, is the fact that Lyris does in fact step on all the traps lol, other than that you're wrong lol.


This comment below makes me feel like you jumped on the elder scrolls band wagon

"
Sorry Zenimax and Bethesda. I am disappointed to ESO. Bethesda for not controlling its brand to stay true to its trademarks. And Zenimax developers for obviously not ever playing any ES brand games. So for me ESO is average MMORPG game that if it was not branded ES game I could give its score of say 85 out of 100. But the fact that its ES brand game. Gives me expectations how the game should be. As elder scroll game, since it does not fulfill many of the expectations I have I could give it 70 out of 100 at best. "

You must not have read a single book, ( even then you would still have come into contact with this truth) because it clearly talks about multiple faction wars lol such as this one. This isn't skyrim online it's the elder scrolls online, they did a great job I personally love this game, and I love reading threads like this, thank you for making me laugh Op You're entire point, is pointless and inaccurate and posted in the wrong section of the forums, a have a nice night/day, I wont respond to this insanely pointless thread ever again.

TicToc

This is a stupid post. It was never meant to be an online version of Skyrim. It is an MMO set in the Elder Scrolls universe. As an MMO there are certain sacrifices that have to be made, and elements that are added/removed to benefit gameplay over "immersion". Get over it. At this late date it has been long known exactly what the gameplay style was. You should have known what it was like before even considering buying it.

Alliances were a one of the most advertised features of the game, so there is no way that you couldn't have known, so it makes this post seem even more like a troll post. If you didn't like the idea of alliances, then you should have moved on long ago. Alliances are actually the biggest draw for many people. Also, if you had done any research into the game you would know that part of the end game is questing in the other alliance territories, so you get to see all the other areas on each character.

The classes point is ridiculous. Again, something that makes me think that you have played little of the game. Choosing a class only restricts you to certain class abilities. Since you are a fan of schools, you can think of classes as schools, as class has no effect on what role you play.

I have no doubt that the idea for anchors was inspired by Rift. So what? It was an aspect of Rift that people liked. If you don't like anchors, feel free to ignore them.

repflope wrote: »

Titanborn manages to step on EVERY trap completely breaking my immersion and these traps that are not traps but some automatic spike pumping machines. Game suggest you to sneak, why? What does it help? Does it allow you to avoid traps? No.

Once again, I have to wonder if you have even played the game. "Does it allow you to avoid traps"? YES!! Yes, it does. When you sneak you can disable the traps. If you disabled the traps she wouldn't get caught in them, would she? Personally I prefer to walk around them or dodge past them. It is faster and it doesn't bother me if she gets hit with them. Since it is such a big deal for you, maybe you should have paid more attention to the suggestion the game made to you and used sneak to disable the traps.

Xexpo

I didn't read anything after "Fact is that anchors are cheap copies of RIFT events."

"es fan" angry cause reasons

SirAndy

repflope wrote: »

You say that "its unrealistic if different factions could roam Tamriel" that you like the current setup and at the other sentence you tell me that you can roam Tamriel when you are level 50.
Make up your mind..

No need to make up my mind, since you can go to other faction zones after level 50 but you still can't play together with players from other factions.
You completely missed my point.

Oh well, i already know where this is heading. Good luck ...
;-)

Laura

repflope wrote: »

Happy for you,but I would like to have my money back.

you want your money back because you didn't enjoy it? I can get a lot of reasons people are wanting there money back in this game but wanting it back because it isn't what YOU expected is wrong.

Thats like going to a restaurant eating your entire meal and saying "this isn't what I was expecting can i please have my money back?"

how silly.

I'm starting to think you are a troll and I'm wasting my time

ESO isn't a wow clone that is also one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard... good luck getting your money back.

This thread is like a spoiled brat screaming "ITS NOT WHAT I WANTED SO ITS BAD ITS A FIASCO WHAAAAAAAAA" Not liking it is one thing but calling it a fiasco and a wow clone is simply absurd. It is easy to respect someones opinion when they don't push it down as a fact, as you have. You mention things that are simply factually wrong (wow clone) and push the impression that others are odd for finding the game very elder scrolls and enjoyable.

BulbousMeathead

It feels like an ES game to me - I'm very happy with it.
I have played Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim, and now TESO.

With each new title, I initially felt uncomfortable/disappointed with the new changes introduced (Skyrim was actually the most jarring for me initially), but in every case I adapted and learned to love each game. I'm sure this one will be no different in that regard. It's just human nature to be resistant to change.

If anything, TESO reminds me of Morrowind the most, but that is probably because I'm playing Ebonheart Pact.

As an aside, I get sick of hearing about people hating on Oblivion - I love Oblivion. I am one of those weird people who actually enjoyed closing Oblivion gates, and becoming a Master alchemist.

Laura

BulbousMeathead wrote: »

It feels like an ES game to me - I'm very happy with it.
I have played Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim, and now TESO.

With each new title, I initially felt uncomfortable/disappointed with the new changes introduced (Skyrim was actually the most jarring for me initially), but in every case I adapted and learned to love each game. I'm sure this one will be no different in that regard. It's just human nature to be resistant to change.

If anything, TESO reminds me of Morrowind the most, but that is probably because I'm playing Ebonheart Pact.

As an aside, I get sick of hearing about people hating on Oblivion - I love Oblivion. I am one of those weird people who actually enjoyed closing Oblivion gates, and becoming a Master alchemist.

I love oblivion too. Its one of my least favorite elder scrolls games but it is still one of the best games ever made. I still go back and play it every now and then I think a lot of people who say ESO isn't like elder scrolls have only played skyrim because they mention things that weren't part of the older games --- then they claim they played all of them and make me giggle.

ESO very much reminds me of morrowind too. I think its because it goes back to the leveling instead of the world leveling with you (which I always disliked because it felt like your progression was cheapened, but didn't ruin the experience for me).

repflope

Laura wrote: »

repflope wrote: »

Happy for you,but I would like to have my money back.

you want your money back because you didn't enjoy it? I can get a lot of reasons people are wanting there money back in this game but wanting it back because it isn't what YOU expected is wrong.

Those elder scrolls games I played are too different to the cheap wow/rift/gw copy zenimax tried to make that I would like to pay for the fiasco. Rift made dozen time better 'anchors', wow made dozen time better instances and sides with continent you could cross explore, gw did dozen time better side quests. Nothing in the game is worth the money I paid from the game nothing.

Thats like going to a restaurant eating your entire meal and saying "this isn't what I was expecting can i please have my money back?"

how silly.

I'm starting to think you are a troll and I'm wasting my time

ESO isn't a wow clone that is also one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard... good luck getting your money back.

This thread is like a spoiled brat screaming "ITS NOT WHAT I WANTED SO ITS BAD ITS A FIASCO WHAAAAAAAAA" Not liking it is one thing but calling it a fiasco and a wow clone is simply absurd. It is easy to respect someones opinion when they don't push it down as a fact, as you have. You mention things that are simply factually wrong (wow clone) and push the impression that others are odd for finding the game very elder scrolls and enjoyable.

I had expectations built on elder scroll franchise that they build over more than 10 years. I do not want "ELDER SCROLLS ONLINE" that wants to be monitezation game that does all aspect worse than any other game it tries to copy. Quests are done well its enjoyable, people are nice. Just the game base is wrong. "Elder scrolls" is different than "elder scrolls" that I used to know over the more than 10 years. I remind you I am mmorpg veteran with more than 20 years of mmo game experience and I do not expect you do skyrim online. But what ESO is just a joke. Its really a joke and some of the comments made on this thread have been a joke. Really a joke. The features I have spoke of have been done in some games. They exists. ESO just tries to be cheap copy of money factories, nothing more.

cliveklgb14_ESO

repflope wrote: »

As I started the game. I quickly found out that first of all ESO lacks even SEMI open world exploration due to alliance split up.

You can play multiple factions so in fact the whole world is open to exploration, just not to individual characters.

But wait, after 50 you can explore all the lands, so it is open then.

Lore wise these alliances seems unstable not lore friendly. What makes it even worse is that this is one of the first decision player has to do.

Care to support that claim? Given Bethesda writes the lore, they determine what is legitimate or not, not you.

Another thing that disappointed me a lot has been the class system. What game of the ES brand had classes?

The class system is far more flexible than you realize. For example I have 3 sorcerers. One the tradition spell casting staff using one. One is a 2 handed melee/lighting throwing hybrid, another is a bow wielding spell casting DPS hybrid.

The layout is different but the point distribution is very, very similar to Skyrim's system.

I've been able to do that with all 4. Nightblade healers, Templar archers, etc, etc.

Then the ability to be able to side with Daedra.[/quote[

Why the player is forced to take side against molag bal? Why is the player forced to side with these lame heroes that make me puke? Why there are anchors in the world that are ingame structures that the anchors seems to everytime spawn? Who build them? Why the anchors don't get destroyed? There are just one of the worst threat to every living being and instead the races would understand the threat of the daedra they chose to war each other? Please WHAT IS THE SENSE OF THIS!

Ah you are one of those. The petulant kids that have to play the bad guy.

Where is the sense, this time of the lore is best suited for a PvP game. That war to claim the throne and save Tamriel is pretty much the essence of this part of the lore.

There were 3 factions looking to rule, and the Molag Bal looking to basically destroy the world.

I am pissed because I bought ES game which is not an ES game.

I don't think you know what an ES game is. And guess what, they didn't make this game to cater to just you, and there are many, many more others that are enjoying what they've done.

More hardcore feature I was also expecting was user shared content. We have got addon support which is really good.

In an MMO, not a viable option at all. Too easy to exploit and cheat that way. It will likely never happen.

Signed,
Satisfied, quite happy ES fan.

otomodachi

repflope wrote: »

Akula wrote: »

I like it the way it is, so I vote no.

Its not a bad game. Point is its ES brand game. ESO != ES. Its not game I expected to pay. I am unhappy that I bought the game. Not because its buggy. But because its not ES game.

And I know I am not alone in these thoughts.

Everything you said is why I returned my copy. I agree that this doesn't feel at all like an Elder Scrolls game. AFAIRC, Mannimarco's role has been butchered. The alliances make no sense to me in terms of composition. Khajit with two elven races?!? Argonians with DUNMER?

And think. The world is at war, so we need the factions and that's why you can't roam with your friends because of wartime nationalism. And yet, the fighter's guild can work across borders. Anyone with imperial access can play any race in any faction. It makes no sense, to me.

For me, nothing in this game has internal consistency. All the decisions that were made, that make it not feel like an Elder Scrolls game to me, feel like they were made because it simplified the process of making an Elder Scrolls MMO. Well, good products aren't simple.

*shrug* Glad for the people who do enjoy it.

EDIT: Oh yeah, reppin Tamriel since Daggerfall, when models had *** and I could get daedric armor before leaving the starter dungeon. :P

EDIT2 Oh yeah! Speechcraft? Pickpocket? Spears? Swimming underwater?

driosketch

repflope wrote: »

Hello all,

I am MMORPG veteran and big fan of ES franchise. I loved the single player games to bits. That made me expect much of the game. There are several things that ES brand games should have:

Right... Well let's take a look at that list:

- Open world exploration (Mostly subjective, and what is "open world"? This is the first time since Daggerfall that you've been able to travel to multiple provinces in the same game, and the first time since Arena you've been able to even visit some locations. You just have to make it to the local way shrine on foot first before you can fast travel, much like fast travel has worked in the last two games. And because there's a war going on, some places will be harder to reach than others.)

- Open class system (Since classes are not locked to gear, the system is relatively still pretty open.)

- Staying true to elder scroll franchise things such a spell schools (Skyrim has five schools of magic, Daggerfall had six. That's with the addition of a new one and the subtraction of two others. ESO is actually where the franchise has been headed in terms of magic. The big 2, Restoration and Destruction are represented with staffs. Restoration is also represented on a Templar line while Conjuration is a Sorcerer skill line. Illustion magic is found in a Nightblade skill line. Multiple destruction skill lines are spread out, as well as some Alteration/Thaumaturgy spells. And soul trap is a Mysticism spell.)

- Staying true to elder scroll franchise able to chose to side with daedra (Not sure what you mean by this, but I believe something like this comes up later in a game quest.)

- Immersion (Totally subjective)

- User shared content (If you're talking about mods, 1 - there are addons and 2 - this has only ever been on the PC side meaning it's not even the majority user experience of TES fans.)

The rest of your post sounds like you barely scratched the surface of the game. Little early to make this sort of judgement.

CTraveler

The alliances make no sense to me in terms of composition. Khajit with two elven races?!?

Take it up with TESV: Skyrim if you don't like it. They say it loud and clear that those three were allied together in that game. ^^

cliveklgb14_ESO

CTraveler wrote: »

The alliances make no sense to me in terms of composition. Khajit with two elven races?!?

Take it up with TESV: Skyrim if you don't like it. They say it loud and clear that those three were allied together in that game. ^^

Doh don't tell them that the very lore they say is broken actually supports the alliances. That couldn't be, the lore is sacrosanct in its alignment with their views

Eris

I don't generally play single-player games. If my roommate and I cannot play the game together, we don't generally bother. So I have pretty much ignored the Elder Scrolls games until this point. I was going to ignore this one too, as I have little knowledge of the Elder Scrolls universe and I figured that the lore would be so annoyingly complex that it would be hard to figure out.

A friend who did play the Elder Scroll games convinced me to come here and hang out with him. It seems like the developers watered down the lore enough for someone just coming into the Elder Scrolls universe could get into the game without being totally overwhelmed.

I'm sorry to those that feel that the game is not enough of what they were expecting, but I'm really happy that they found a way to engage people who haven't played the single-player games.

Perhaps if we could all agree that this is basically a happy medium between the two worlds TES and an MMO for non TES players, it might work better.