ES game that is not truly an ES game

repflope

cliveklgb14_ESO wrote: »

repflope wrote: »

As I started the game. I quickly found out that first of all ESO lacks even SEMI open world exploration due to alliance split up.

You can play multiple factions so in fact the whole world is open to exploration, just not to individual characters.

But wait, after 50 you can explore all the lands, so it is open then.

That is 50 levels too late, without my RL friends playing with me. No thank you.

cliveklgb14_ESO wrote: »

Lore wise these alliances seems unstable not lore friendly. What makes it even worse is that this is one of the first decision player has to do.

Care to support that claim? Given Bethesda writes the lore, they determine what is legitimate or not, not you.

By lore friendly in this game I mean it does not feel fluent nor believable as player -- character in world. These anchors anchor on prebuilt sturctures that are not daedric like. There are no people around that could be said to build them. They are not destroyed even they pose big threat to every living being.

When you roam Tamriel in ESO you hear almost always anchor sound. They are all time present everywhere. How do you manage to fight each other in Tamriel when daedra pour in to Tamriel like that?

There are plenty of daedra pouring into Tamriel and none of them roam to near by villages. They just stand at the anchors.

Whole anchor mechanism is idiotic cheap. They are way too plentiful.

cliveklgb14_ESO wrote: »

Another thing that disappointed me a lot has been the class system. What game of the ES brand had classes?

The class system is far more flexible than you realize. For example I have 3 sorcerers. One the tradition spell casting staff using one. One is a 2 handed melee/lighting throwing hybrid, another is a bow wielding spell casting DPS hybrid.

The layout is different but the point distribution is very, very similar to Skyrim's system.

I've been able to do that with all 4. Nightblade healers, Templar archers, etc, etc.

Because dragonknight has superior damage migitation skill and templar has superior healing skill in end game its no matter if you get healing staff as sorcerer or destruction staff as dragonknight. Sure you can be happy now but those roles are already predermined unless they make chances.

cliveklgb14_ESO wrote: »

Then the ability to be able to side with Daedra.[/quote[

Why the player is forced to take side against molag bal? Why is the player forced to side with these lame heroes that make me puke? Why there are anchors in the world that are ingame structures that the anchors seems to everytime spawn? Who build them? Why the anchors don't get destroyed? There are just one of the worst threat to every living being and instead the races would understand the threat of the daedra they chose to war each other? Please WHAT IS THE SENSE OF THIS!

Ah you are one of those. The petulant kids that have to play the bad guy.

Where is the sense, this time of the lore is best suited for a PvP game. That war to claim the throne and save Tamriel is pretty much the essence of this part of the lore.

There were 3 factions looking to rule, and the Molag Bal looking to basically destroy the world.

ES is roleplaying game brand, which always had chance to make choices. Siding always with the good guys is boring. You know the happy ending.

What comes your claim for calling me a kid.. I am already 33 year old. Also the replies on this thread should already prove to most people with brains that I am not trolling but raising discussion about real issue of this game of it not being ES brand game even it carries it title. Actually I find it that you present the kid that gets hurt when other one mocks her/his toy. Not able to take constructive critisism.

cliveklgb14_ESO wrote: »

I am pissed because I bought ES game which is not an ES game.

I don't think you know what an ES game is. And guess what, they didn't make this game to cater to just you, and there are many, many more others that are enjoying what they've done.

More hardcore feature I was also expecting was user shared content. We have got addon support which is really good.

In an MMO, not a viable option at all. Too easy to exploit and cheat that way. It will likely never happen.

Signed,
Satisfied, quite happy ES fan.

I have played ES games for almost 10 years. And have about 500 hours on steam. So I have pretty good sense of what ES games are.

Yet custom created content are already used in other multiplayer games. Its all about controlling the content. Its not impossible sure it might be hard but never say never especially not when its already done.

repflope

Eris wrote: »

I don't generally play single-player games. If my roommate and I cannot play the game together, we don't generally bother. So I have pretty much ignored the Elder Scrolls games until this point. I was going to ignore this one too, as I have little knowledge of the Elder Scrolls universe and I figured that the lore would be so annoyingly complex that it would be hard to figure out.

A friend who did play the Elder Scroll games convinced me to come here and hang out with him. It seems like the developers watered down the lore enough for someone just coming into the Elder Scrolls universe could get into the game without being totally overwhelmed.

I'm sorry to those that feel that the game is not enough of what they were expecting, but I'm really happy that they found a way to engage people who haven't played the single-player games.

Perhaps if we could all agree that this is basically a happy medium between the two worlds TES and an MMO for non TES players, it might work better.

Great for your room mate and you. I am already divided from my friends because of the fact that you need to choose alliance at the start that takes you one of the tubes in one side of Tamriel.

Funny thing is that you tell that you did not feel overwhelmed. Because I did feel that with the fact that I had to choose from 3 sides and 4 classes from 10 races. I had to analyze each class if they could make viable tank or healer. And if they played so that I could enjoy the game. So it took about 1 week for me to roll each class about level 10 to get a feel of them. See the class skill lines. But fine sure don't get overwhelmed

Instead of these multi choice questions the game could have started without alliance or class choice. That you had chosen your character race and look as every ES game does. And make you decide over the gameplay what you become..

otomodachi

Eris wrote: »

I don't generally play single-player games. If my roommate and I cannot play the game together, we don't generally bother. So I have pretty much ignored the Elder Scrolls games until this point. I was going to ignore this one too, as I have little knowledge of the Elder Scrolls universe and I figured that the lore would be so annoyingly complex that it would be hard to figure out.

A friend who did play the Elder Scroll games convinced me to come here and hang out with him. It seems like the developers watered down the lore enough for someone just coming into the Elder Scrolls universe could get into the game without being totally overwhelmed.

I'm sorry to those that feel that the game is not enough of what they were expecting, but I'm really happy that they found a way to engage people who haven't played the single-player games.

Perhaps if we could all agree that this is basically a happy medium between the two worlds TES and an MMO for non TES players, it might work better.

Yeah, totes, IF there was a point where I was trying to convince people this was a worthless game they should leave, it ended a long time ago. I'm just rubbernecking to see how the rage dies down and if there's ever an official response, tbh.

Don't want/care if other people do or don't like the game. Definitely would rather live in a world where people do things they like doing? But I guess I'm also a pretentious d-bag, because I REALLY do love rambling about how I feel about stuff.

HAIL ERIS AND BAN THE M-F-ING BOMB! :P

repflope

I will leave the thread now, I see that ESO is already filled with WoW and other mmorpg game fanboys that do not see what potential ESO truly had and what abomination ZOE twisted it. I also have slight feeling that there have been some devs replying this thread on safe accounts trying to save their skin.

Anyway I won't be playing the game anymore, my characters are already split from my friends and those friends that I could invite.

As positive feedback for devs I can tell:
- I enjoyed quests much. They did not feel cheap. There has been nice story to them -- except the main quest
- Public dungeons have been fun. They work well at least now when there was plenty people around.
- I like the fact that the gameplay is not so easy that you may die at times. ESO was not too hard and it was nice to die at times

If ESO did not bear Elder Scroll brand. This thread would not exists. I would probably still continue play. But now when it does not fill expectations to able roam over Tamriel, to choose alliances, side with the Daedra, scheme, not letting me to shape my character without big limitations. Its not simply ES brand game that I like nor one that I want to support to get long life.

starkerealm

repflope wrote: »

Another thing that disappointed me a lot has been the class system. What game of the ES brand had classes? What are sorcerers? What are dragonknights?!?

Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblivion, and I think, Dawnstar, Battlespire, and Shadowkey. I'm honestly not sure about Redguard, I've never been able to get it running.

Sorcerers have been heavy armor casters since Arena.

Dragon Knights are a kind of crusader, as in the Crusader class from most of the franchise, with a specific background in Akaviri spells.

I actually played a nightblade in Morrowind and in Oblivion.

Templar might be new, I don't remember it, but it would be one of the heavy armor and restoration classes, which I've never played.

otomodachi

starkerealm wrote: »

repflope wrote: »

Another thing that disappointed me a lot has been the class system. What game of the ES brand had classes? What are sorcerers? What are dragonknights?!?

Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblivion, and I think, Dawnstar, Battlespire, and Shadowkey. I'm honestly not sure about Redguard, I've never been able to get it running.

Sorcerers have been heavy armor casters since Arena.

Dragon Knights are a kind of crusader, as in the Crusader class from most of the franchise, with a specific background in Akaviri spells.

I actually played a nightblade in Morrowind and in Oblivion.

Templar might be new, I don't remember it, but it would be one of the heavy armor and restoration classes, which I've never played.

Come on now, not fair to list all of those without also pointing out that all of those games include custom class builders. :P TECHNICALLY right is not the kind of right I aspire to. *shrug*

starkerealm

otomodachi wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

repflope wrote: »

Another thing that disappointed me a lot has been the class system. What game of the ES brand had classes? What are sorcerers? What are dragonknights?!?

Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblivion, and I think, Dawnstar, Battlespire, and Shadowkey. I'm honestly not sure about Redguard, I've never been able to get it running.

Sorcerers have been heavy armor casters since Arena.

Dragon Knights are a kind of crusader, as in the Crusader class from most of the franchise, with a specific background in Akaviri spells.

I actually played a nightblade in Morrowind and in Oblivion.

Templar might be new, I don't remember it, but it would be one of the heavy armor and restoration classes, which I've never played.

Come on now, not fair to list all of those without also pointing out that all of those games include custom class builders. :P TECHNICALLY right is not the kind of right I aspire to. *shrug*

Even if you made a custom class in the older games, you were still defining who your character would be. The only truly classless game in the franchise is Skyrim (and, again, maybe Redguard).

As others have pointed out, ESO is actually less restrictive in it's class setup than a lot of the earlier games, because weapons and armor skills aren't tied to your class selection.

otomodachi

starkerealm wrote: »

otomodachi wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

repflope wrote: »

Another thing that disappointed me a lot has been the class system. What game of the ES brand had classes? What are sorcerers? What are dragonknights?!?

Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblivion, and I think, Dawnstar, Battlespire, and Shadowkey. I'm honestly not sure about Redguard, I've never been able to get it running.

Sorcerers have been heavy armor casters since Arena.

Dragon Knights are a kind of crusader, as in the Crusader class from most of the franchise, with a specific background in Akaviri spells.

I actually played a nightblade in Morrowind and in Oblivion.

Templar might be new, I don't remember it, but it would be one of the heavy armor and restoration classes, which I've never played.

Come on now, not fair to list all of those without also pointing out that all of those games include custom class builders. :P TECHNICALLY right is not the kind of right I aspire to. *shrug*

Even if you made a custom class in the older games, you were still defining who your character would be. The only truly classless game in the franchise is Skyrim (and, again, maybe Redguard).

As others have pointed out, ESO is actually less restrictive in it's class setup than a lot of the earlier games, because weapons and armor skills aren't tied to your class selection.

Eh, I disagree. I FEEL that there are more classes to be made with the Morrowind system, let's say. That's more options. There are more overall skills (acrobatic, athletics) and that's more options. And you can rank in these skills regardless of class. And there were attributes. This is all feels though.

I THINK that if someone crunched some numbers, there'd be more unique skillsets that could be made with the Morrowind system than there are with the ESO system. But I might be wrong. It's probably not a project worth doing, TBH, but maybe there's a bored mathematics enthusiast out there.

Back to feels, it FEELS like every Elder Scrolls game SINCE Morrowind has cut out SOME feature that I loved. Morrowind-> Oblivion I lost spears. ->Skyrim I lost custom spell making.-> ESO I lost the a la carte skill system. *shrug* Just doesn't for FOR ME.

EDIT: In Morrowind, if I whipped up a custom class with a focus on Medium Armor (thanks for bringing that back for ESO! THAT was a big positive in my book!) there was nothing stopping me from wearing and skilling up other classes of armor. It was slower, is all. Same for all skills. In ESO there are literally skills any given character can't have; the class specific ones. It just doesn't satisfy ME.

AlexDougherty

repflope wrote: »

I am MMORPG veteran and big fan of ES franchise. I loved the single player games to bits. That made me expect much of the game. There are several things that ES brand games should have:

- Open world exploration
- Open class system
- Staying true to elder scroll franchise things such a spell schools
- Staying true to elder scroll franchise able to chose to side with daedra
- Immersion
- User shared content

As I started the game. I quickly found out that first of all ESO lacks even SEMI open world exploration due to alliance split up. That does not only tear the Tamriel into bits but also splits up friends into different sides unable to play each other. Lore wise these alliances seems unstable not lore friendly.

Another thing that disappointed me a lot has been the class system. What game of the ES brand had classes? What are sorcerers? What are dragonknights?!? All ES games have been open class! There has been MMO games in the past that used open class system successfully in the past such as UO and AC1. That were really good and nice games. Since the game lacks ES open class system such things as spell schools are missing. Which make me unhappy. I can understand that the game needs little bit of simplification but please NO CLASSES and please add spell schools.

Then the ability to be able to side with Daedra. One of the worst features of the game for me is the start up tutorial. Titanborn manages to step on EVERY trap completely breaking my immersion and these traps that are not traps but some automatic spike pumping machines. Game suggest you to sneak, why? What does it help? Does it allow you to avoid traps? No. Does it allow you to avoid fight? Really no since the place where its suggested basically makes you to be face to face with this zombie. Why the player is forced to take side against molag bal? Why is the player forced to side with these lame heroes that make me puke? Why there are anchors in the world that are ingame structures that the anchors seems to everytime spawn? Who build them? Why the anchors don't get destroyed? There are just one of the worst threat to every living being and instead the races would understand the threat of the daedra they chose to war each other? Please WHAT IS THE SENSE OF THIS!

I will reply in order
1.Open World Exploration.
Theoretically doable, but with a large number of players online it would lead to huge lag, the degree depends on the engine but is essentially inevitable. True the way Tamriel is broken up is unfriendly to the lore, but every ES game has rewriten to some degree.
2. Open Class System.
It could be done this way, but classes with varying strengths and weaknesses, is the easiest way to give you some replay value, rather than having one character who learns all skills.
3. Staying True to the Spell School System.
This is your strongest arguement, the nature of magic and the spell schools has always been one of ES's defining features. That said it needed to be tweeked slightly for an Online Game. But essentially it should be closer to the older system.
4. Staying True to the ES franchise about siding with the Daedra.
I haven't got that far in yet, but the ES franchise has some dubious alliances in it's past. The assassins guild serves a very evil daedra, in Skyrim you can serve as champion for numerous Daedra, some good, some Evil.
5. Immersion
Unique to each player, what appeals to one player turns another off. I understand why you feel it's important, but it's nearly impossible for universal immersion.

starkerealm

otomodachi wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

otomodachi wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

repflope wrote: »

Another thing that disappointed me a lot has been the class system. What game of the ES brand had classes? What are sorcerers? What are dragonknights?!?

Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblivion, and I think, Dawnstar, Battlespire, and Shadowkey. I'm honestly not sure about Redguard, I've never been able to get it running.

Sorcerers have been heavy armor casters since Arena.

Dragon Knights are a kind of crusader, as in the Crusader class from most of the franchise, with a specific background in Akaviri spells.

I actually played a nightblade in Morrowind and in Oblivion.

Templar might be new, I don't remember it, but it would be one of the heavy armor and restoration classes, which I've never played.

Come on now, not fair to list all of those without also pointing out that all of those games include custom class builders. :P TECHNICALLY right is not the kind of right I aspire to. *shrug*

Even if you made a custom class in the older games, you were still defining who your character would be. The only truly classless game in the franchise is Skyrim (and, again, maybe Redguard).

As others have pointed out, ESO is actually less restrictive in it's class setup than a lot of the earlier games, because weapons and armor skills aren't tied to your class selection.

Eh, I disagree. I FEEL that there are more classes to be made with the Morrowind system, let's say. That's more options. There are more overall skills (acrobatic, athletics) and that's more options. And you can rank in these skills regardless of class. And there were attributes. This is all feels though.

I THINK that if someone crunched some numbers, there'd be more unique skillsets that could be made with the Morrowind system than there are with the ESO system. But I might be wrong. It's probably not a project worth doing, TBH, but maybe there's a bored mathematics enthusiast out there.

Back to feels, it FEELS like every Elder Scrolls game SINCE Morrowind has cut out SOME feature that I loved. Morrowind-> Oblivion I lost spears. ->Skyrim I lost custom spell making.-> ESO I lost the a la carte skill system. *shrug* Just doesn't for FOR ME.

EDIT: In Morrowind, if I whipped up a custom class with a focus on Medium Armor (thanks for bringing that back for ESO! THAT was a big positive in my book!) there was nothing stopping me from wearing and skilling up other classes of armor. It was slower, is all. Same for all skills. In ESO there are literally skills any given character can't have; the class specific ones. It just doesn't satisfy ME.

The issue with Morrowind, and to a lesser extent Oblivion is that there were also a lot of invalid class choices. Not just via the custom list, but there were classes, I'm thinking of the Agent specifically, where their role wasn't really supported by the game.

Also, on a quibble, ESO didn't really bring back Medium Armor. It still has the Skyrim/Oblivion Light and Heavy Armor. The stuff displaying as medium would be Light in any other game. ESO's light armor is bringing back the Unarmored stuff and tying it to gear, which I do actually like, a lot. But, I still miss medium armor.

repflope

AlexDougherty wrote: »

I will reply in order
1.Open World Exploration.
Theoretically doable, but with a large number of players online it would lead to huge lag, the degree depends on the engine but is essentially inevitable. True the way Tamriel is broken up is unfriendly to the lore, but every ES game has rewriten to some degree.

By open world exploration one means that the world is accessible to everyone no matter where they decide to go. This can be easily achieved by phases, instanced zones, seamless/load free zone borders. That are all part of todays MMORPGs. This is not technology that does not exists its just not like that in ESO.

AlexDougherty wrote: »

2. Open Class System.
It could be done this way, but classes with varying strengths and weaknesses, is the easiest way to give you some replay value, rather than having one character who learns all skills.

Open class can mean that you have to specialize into one aspect over time. Not that you are all god who can do everything. Its simply what you start with and when and how you have to do your choice.

I see it this way: ESO introduced classes are not something that have been present in every ES game. That makes them NEW for major part of the people that enter the game. When you start game you are given very little information of both alliance and your class. Yet those are very important decisions you have to make first without basing those decisions on what? I was reading class, race and even alliance comparison for several hours and starting new alt after alt to see what fit me.

If you would be able to start game without class or alliance choice and make those later in the game it would make it much easier to step in.

And BTW in Skyrim if you played it vanilla you had skill cap. You never become all mighty one..

AlexDougherty wrote: »

3. Staying True to the Spell School System.
This is your strongest arguement, the nature of magic and the spell schools has always been one of ES's defining features. That said it needed to be tweeked slightly for an Online Game. But essentially it should be closer to the older system.

This is due to the fact that ES brand always had tons of spells. So many it would become pain to control. So I understand the simplification BUT I would at least expect illusion, alteration, conjuration skills line. Because of economy you would probably have to take out weapon/armor conjuration. But illusion and alteration could have almost been taken in as whole. Sure you need to do balancing with them but in theory you could have had alteration cloth tank. Now the truth tanking capability is on heavy armor. Illusion had been really cool but you would have had to make the spells bit different and some of them could not have worked same on PC as NPC because those had been just too OP. But for me being vampire is half of it could without the illusion spells.

So I understand that it was easy to erase those because it had actually took also design / balance of certain skills but just sad that there are nothing from those school. It was easier to invent something new so thats what we get.

AlexDougherty wrote: »

4. Staying True to the ES franchise about siding with the Daedra.
I haven't got that far in yet, but the ES franchise has some dubious alliances in it's past. The assassins guild serves a very evil daedra, in Skyrim you can serve as champion for numerous Daedra, some good, some Evil.

Doesn't it tell you anything that you already start the game as sleazy all good for nothing errand boy? I was already so full of the "rescue the all poor heroes over XXX amount of level" that I had really just wanted to skip those quests the final tick for me that was that the whole quest is shared with all alliances, all races and all classes. So you will go over that same quest with every character you make because you need those skill points and gear.

AlexDougherty wrote: »

5. Immersion
Unique to each player, what appeals to one player turns another off. I understand why you feel it's important, but it's nearly impossible for universal immersion.

- So there are people that like Tyris Titanborn groaning on every trap that you pass?
- Oh I also tried to jump in the stream that was suppose to lift you the anchor and bring you to Tamriel. Guess where I got? Fell down in the well and died. (( this was one of strong dislikes in the older ES games. 'quicktime events' ))
- I also had really difficult time with the game showing that my character was either rooted or stunned. I was always wondering that wth I am stuck again? When looking at 1st camera or 3rd camera there has sometimes never been any clear indicator what happened.
- I also think how they implemented dual wield in ESO is just poor. It uses exactly same control mechanic as any other weapon. As in skyrim you controlled both hands. Now dual wield feels pretty much the same with 2h wielding. Actually making me prefer 2h wielding that I never did in any of the earlier ES games.


Other than that:
As I repeatably said in the thread. This thread would not exists if it was not an ES game. ESO is not the worst possible game in the genre. It introduces some new gameplay mechanics over other MMORPGs and offering interesting quests. Just that the part how ES has been implemented in the game is wrong. Alliances & wars are too strong present in the game that is invaded by daedra so that you almost hear the anchors nearly everywhere you play. For the early level 20~ gameplay I could call ESO anchor online. Anchors are everywhere. Player is also given choices without any information to back it up. Making it possible for yourself gimp your character / intended play role straight from the start. Also forcing you to play over same kind of environments over and over.

So ESO is nice game just offers little for ES fan such as myself. Approach for the game is just wrong. I already quit and uninstalled the game. As you would curse me from the board I still have few weeks left to voice my opinion enjoy that

repflope

starkerealm wrote: »

The issue with Morrowind, and to a lesser extent Oblivion is that there were also a lot of invalid class choices. Not just via the custom list, but there were classes, I'm thinking of the Agent specifically, where their role wasn't really supported by the game.

I am afraid that actually the same thing is happening with ESO. Templar have very imba skills that come into healing and support. Sure healing staff is not bad at all but can it do exactly the same things? Can any other class over come dragonknight damage migitation? Templar will probably make quite ok AOE tank since they receive some AOE damage skills. Not sure if they can migitate the damage though. Especially when block is based on stamina and the skills commonly take mana.

You will get more of half wit tanks and healers thinking they can do the job with this system than they really can. You will probably also get bunch of whining templars that want to DPS but have to support heal / dispel. (( *cought* Some that played some earlier game might find this amusing )). Templars will be essential raid healers because they get cleasing ritual and damage reduction abilities like rite of passage and rune focus. Restoration staff will probably be vital too on some support healers that may cause damage while healing. What is sad that there are plenty of people right now that think that each class can do anything. Yes in certain limits they can but there are some classes that simply over do others in some aspects. Just that there are lot of people with misideas they can migitate damage well as some other class even they can't. Sure this may change over time..

cliveklgb14_ESO

repflope wrote: »

That is 50 levels too late, without my RL friends playing with me. No thank you.

That is your choice then. That doesn't change the fact that you can.

These anchors anchor on prebuilt sturctures that are not daedric like. There are no people around that could be said to build them.

They are Ayleid Wells. If you read up on the lore of the Ayleid's and their stuctures, magik, etc, it fully fits the lore that they could be exploited this way (later resolved by other lore).

Because dragonknight has superior damage migitation skill and templar has superior healing skill in end game its no matter if you get healing staff as sorcerer or destruction staff as dragonknight. Sure you can be happy now but those roles are already predermined unless they make chances.

False, debunked by numerous other topics on healing and tanking.

If you have min max based on false premises that is YOUR problem, not the game systems.

ES is roleplaying game brand, which always had chance to make choices. Siding always with the good guys is boring. You know the happy ending.

Your problem again.

Not able to take constructive critisism

It isn't constructive criticism. Nor realistic criticism. You expect the game to cater to YOU.

So the shoe fits.

I have played ES games for almost 10 years. And have about 500 hours on steam. So I have pretty good sense of what ES games are.

So have I. So by your own argument my credibility is equal to yours and I disagree. Sorry but that is just a false, appeal to authority logical fallacy on your part.

It is your opinion not authority on the topic. And many others with just as much ES game experience disagree.

And you've shown you clearly have biased lore knowledge, cherry picking and selectively omitting lore that disagrees.

Yet custom created content are already used in other multiplayer games

Not on the MMO scale they have not. 5-10 person multi-player games is no where near the same as MMOs in scale.

It leaves it far to open to exploitation which is rampant in those creation system, and was rampant in the single player ES single player titles.

That just does not work in MMOs.

Scintilla

OP: " I had to analyze each class if they could make viable tank or healer."

And is that the crux of the matter here? ESO tries to get away from Tank, Healer and DPS. Yes certain builds are certainly "Tanks" etc but is that not for another MMO (read: Every other MMO). You seem to be saying you're looking for something different but you want the same maybe? And ESO isn't. For example, I have a Dark Elf, dual-wield with light armour. I play her half-and-half magic/melee. Shouldn't work maybe? Probably wouldn't in another MMO as what role does she play? She holds her own. Mostly ( ) ESO gives you that freedom no?

reignfyre

I'm with you, OP. This game was made with all technique and no soul. A game made by computer programmers checking off requirements--and not by game designers interested in entertaining, or artists interested in carrying you off to another land. ESO is like a musical performance by a musician who has amazing and flawless technical skills, but no passion or creativity.

Jadeviper1974

So somehow it is someone else's fault that you didn't do any research or reading before buying the game. Because everything that you point out was public information that I was aware of long before release and I was never even invited to a beta.

Noth

Simply put, it is not a numbered TES game, which are the TES games that most people know. It is more an off shoot. The other offshoots of the series do not play like the numbered games. So just remember, there is more to ES than the numbered games.

robacooperb16_ESO

repflope wrote: »

I had expectations built on elder scroll franchise that they build over more than 10 years. I do not want "ELDER SCROLLS ONLINE" that wants to be monitezation game that does all aspect worse than any other game it tries to copy. Quests are done well its enjoyable, people are nice. Just the game base is wrong. "Elder scrolls" is different than "elder scrolls" that I used to know over the more than 10 years. I remind you I am mmorpg veteran with more than 20 years of mmo game experience and I do not expect you do skyrim online. But what ESO is just a joke. Its really a joke and some of the comments made on this thread have been a joke. Really a joke. The features I have spoke of have been done in some games. They exists. ESO just tries to be cheap copy of money factories, nothing more.

See reading this convinced me you are the joke, or a bad troll.

- You don't get the Lore so your obviously have no ground to complain about it.

- You don't get MMO gameplay balancing mechanics so you have no ground to stand there.

- You are upset there is no player created mods that affect the game world... seriously I can't think of a way to describe how stupid that would be (open door to hacks).

Please leave and stop dragging down the community with your sad and pathetic attempts to ruin it for others.

Saerydoth

Face it, this IS an ES game. And the arguments to the contrary boil down to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_scotsman

repflope

Scintilla wrote: »

OP: " I had to analyze each class if they could make viable tank or healer."

And is that the crux of the matter here? ESO tries to get away from Tank, Healer and DPS. Yes certain builds are certainly "Tanks" etc but is that not for another MMO (read: Every other MMO). You seem to be saying you're looking for something different but you want the same maybe? And ESO isn't. For example, I have a Dark Elf, dual-wield with light armour. I play her half-and-half magic/melee. Shouldn't work maybe? Probably wouldn't in another MMO as what role does she play? She holds her own. Mostly ( ) ESO gives you that freedom no?

You say that: "ESO tries to get away from Tank, Healer and DPS." if ESO tries to get away from classes that define these roles. So why do the classes exists that define roles? No matter how you twist the fact templar is the only class having class specific skills to heal, protect and dispel. Dragon knight has very good damage migitation skills and taunt. Why do you need and want to have classes if you make these design decisions to get rid of them? There are no class specific quests at least on the entry level so what is the point?

In RIFT that is obvious reference game to ESO, you could have warrior wielding fireballs. And it had more dynamic and interesting class system than ESO. If you want to have classes ESO way you could at least do it properly.

Part of this post is to point that ESO that even it has dozen of sweat hours put into it many of the design decisions are just cheap. Quest have been copy pasted to each side. I payed 80€ of the collectors edition I would expect quality on the product that carries brand name of the game line that I have vowed upon.

otomodachi

cliveklgb14_ESO wrote: »

repflope wrote: »

That is 50 levels too late, without my RL friends playing with me. No thank you.

That is your choice then. That doesn't change the fact that you can.

These anchors anchor on prebuilt sturctures that are not daedric like. There are no people around that could be said to build them.

They are Ayleid Wells. If you read up on the lore of the Ayleid's and their stuctures, magik, etc, it fully fits the lore that they could be exploited this way (later resolved by other lore).

Because dragonknight has superior damage migitation skill and templar has superior healing skill in end game its no matter if you get healing staff as sorcerer or destruction staff as dragonknight. Sure you can be happy now but those roles are already predermined unless they make chances.

False, debunked by numerous other topics on healing and tanking.

If you have min max based on false premises that is YOUR problem, not the game systems.

ES is roleplaying game brand, which always had chance to make choices. Siding always with the good guys is boring. You know the happy ending.

Your problem again.

Not able to take constructive critisism

It isn't constructive criticism. Nor realistic criticism. You expect the game to cater to YOU.

So the shoe fits.

I have played ES games for almost 10 years. And have about 500 hours on steam. So I have pretty good sense of what ES games are.

So have I. So by your own argument my credibility is equal to yours and I disagree. Sorry but that is just a false, appeal to authority logical fallacy on your part.

It is your opinion not authority on the topic. And many others with just as much ES game experience disagree.

And you've shown you clearly have biased lore knowledge, cherry picking and selectively omitting lore that disagrees.

Yet custom created content are already used in other multiplayer games

Not on the MMO scale they have not. 5-10 person multi-player games is no where near the same as MMOs in scale.

It leaves it far to open to exploitation which is rampant in those creation system, and was rampant in the single player ES single player titles.

That just does not work in MMOs.

Uh, Anarchy Online had player-made quests a decade ago. City of Heroes did it, too.

EDIT: Also, FWIW, the tone of your post made me want to reply much more aggressively. *shrug*

icengr_ESO

I love the elder scroll games as well. but this is first and foremost an mmo...that is made to closely resemble the elder scrolls. that said I think they did a wonderful (albeit buggy right now) job.

repflope

cliveklgb14_ESO wrote: »

So have I. So by your own argument my credibility is equal to yours and I disagree. Sorry but that is just a false, appeal to authority logical fallacy on your part.

It is your opinion not authority on the topic. And many others with just as much ES game experience disagree.

And you've shown you clearly have biased lore knowledge, cherry picking and selectively omitting lore that disagrees.

I express my opinion of the state of ESO. Its on forum, you have full right to disagree. I have already lost playing and simply stay on the forum to get some refund on my money of the collectors edition of ESO.

Lore as ES books and how it is in books can be referred to the in-game features yes. Other question is if the feature is well designed or implemented or feeling as if it really belongs to such game.

I remind you that all ES games have been such games that they had thousands of hours work involved in them. When you play those games you can imagine how hard Bethesda developers have worked on that. AND before you remind me that ESO is not developed by Bethesda. ESO carries ES brand in full colors it should stand more fully behind that fact. ESO simply does not have that love in it even it stands on the same brand.

cliveklgb14_ESO wrote: »

Yet custom created content are already used in other multiplayer games

Not on the MMO scale they have not. 5-10 person multi-player games is no where near the same as MMOs in scale.

It leaves it far to open to exploitation which is rampant in those creation system, and was rampant in the single player ES single player titles.

That just does not work in MMOs.

Not in MMO scale no but in 32-100 man scale yes. How many single player games you know that carry such full modding features as Skyrim and the other ES game have? Some game do it but none in the same extend as ES games have. Community has devoted many hours in improving of Skyrim and today if you mod Skyrim it can turn into anything you can possibly imagine.

Also I remind that if the sharing of user generated content is controlled and distributed by the game developer they can make sure that 'ill' mods don't get into the game. Most senseful user made content would be texture, model and such particles, spell effects.

So it could be done but it would require control and planning.

cliveklgb14_ESO wrote: »

Your problem again.

Not able to take constructive critisism

It isn't constructive criticism. Nor realistic criticism. You expect the game to cater to YOU.

So the shoe fits.

Sarcasm.. Very constructive indeed.

Bunk

repflope wrote: »

Sorry Zenimax and Bethesda. I am disappointed to ESO. Bethesda for not controlling its brand to stay true to its trademarks.

LOL you clearly know nothing about companies and business and such.

repflope

robacooperb16_ESO wrote: »

repflope wrote: »

I had expectations built on elder scroll franchise that they build over more than 10 years. I do not want "ELDER SCROLLS ONLINE" that wants to be monitezation game that does all aspect worse than any other game it tries to copy. Quests are done well its enjoyable, people are nice. Just the game base is wrong. "Elder scrolls" is different than "elder scrolls" that I used to know over the more than 10 years. I remind you I am mmorpg veteran with more than 20 years of mmo game experience and I do not expect you do skyrim online. But what ESO is just a joke. Its really a joke and some of the comments made on this thread have been a joke. Really a joke. The features I have spoke of have been done in some games. They exists. ESO just tries to be cheap copy of money factories, nothing more.

See reading this convinced me you are the joke, or a bad troll.

- You don't get the Lore so your obviously have no ground to complain about it.

- You don't get MMO gameplay balancing mechanics so you have no ground to stand there.

- You are upset there is no player created mods that affect the game world... seriously I can't think of a way to describe how stupid that would be (open door to hacks).

Please leave and stop dragging down the community with your sad and pathetic attempts to ruin it for others.

If you ever worked with others or for customers. You would understand that feedback is the most important input lost customer can give from service. I have given honest input not troll. One of the reasons this post exists in this forum is that the survey within the client simply showed blank black screen after I wrote 4000 character feedback. So I assumed it did not go through.

You are free to express your opinion as have I. I paid for that so have you. I will gladly stop if ZOE return my money.

And its very sad to see such cries of agony through your words that don't have anything to do with this thread.

repflope

Bunk wrote: »

repflope wrote: »

Sorry Zenimax and Bethesda. I am disappointed to ESO. Bethesda for not controlling its brand to stay true to its trademarks.

LOL you clearly know nothing about companies and business and such.

I have worked with Hashbro and EA, so I know much about that..

repflope

icengr_ESO wrote: »

I love the elder scroll games as well. but this is first and foremost an mmo...that is made to closely resemble the elder scrolls. that said I think they did a wonderful (albeit buggy right now) job.

Its sad that some consider this only format of MMORPG. WoW/EQ were the first such games to introduce such MMORPG tubes as ESO does. Sadly at least vanilla WOW did it better than ESO. Azeroth was open for exploration, even you had to pick sides.

ESO is just cheap MMORPG made of the industry, taking on cheap/easy design.

Bunk

These complaints are things people whined about years before the game even released. Know what happened to those people? They didn't buy the game because they were more informed.

Literally EVERYTHING you complained about has been common knowledge for as long as this game has been in production.

It's your own fault for purchasing a product without doing the least bit of research first.

repflope

Bunk wrote: »

These complaints are things people whined about years before the game even released. Know what happened to those people? They didn't buy the game because they were more informed.

Literally EVERYTHING you complained about has been common knowledge for as long as this game has been in production.

It's your own fault for purchasing a product without doing the least bit of research first.

These comments I have witnessed today.. Most of those that protect ESO have been made with such fury, mindless rage infused in them that if I was ESO employee I would already be worried that the community would tear itself apart after a time Making me miss the game even less.

brandon

minus the bugs and terrible customer support I'm actually enjoying the game they cant put everything from sp elder scrolls in because its an mmo and I understand that.