Bank Account Being Charged?

vangelis866eb17_ESO

Darkstar4758 wrote: »

It's not illegal if you agreed to it in the TOS.

we didnt. that has been also discussed on how the thing in TOS is different from what they demanded of the subscribers. Feel free to look into it deeper if you want but im pretty sure that if we are in the fault and zenimax have their ass covered, we wouldnt be getting codes to get access to the game without the need to set up a subscription plan.

LadyDaria

Darkstar4758 wrote: »

Bottom line is, it is a pay-to-play game ... if you don't want to pay then why did you buy it in the first place? You get your 30 days free, just as advertised, and after that you are legally obligated to pay for future time by accepting the TOS. I don't fault the company one BIT for making people set up their subscription plans and verifying that the payment method is good ... if anything it cuts down on the number of gold-seller accounts being created.

Its cool everything worked out good for you and you always have free10000+++ $ on your card. Some people like me have their money working and need to know about such thing not then its too late already.
We are upset about the fact that we know about their scecial system just now. Admins should be more open to us about such things, then I and all others will have no problems with them. In other games I always know to the minutes then exactly I need to have money on my card

PS sorry for my horrible english

xundeadly

I am actually surprised as to how stupid some people on here can be to not even know what half of us are even upset about... like is it that hard to grasp of a concept?

Darkstar4758

It's no different then buying gas using a credit or debit card at the pump ... sometimes an authorization charge (which can be far more than your purchase) gets put on your account and clears after a day or two. They stated up front that your account would be charged then refunded. I don't blame ZOS, I blame scammers and perpetuators of fraud. If it wasn't for people like that trying to rip companies off they wouldn't need such strict pre-authorization practices.

Prixm

Same thing has happend to me, 12.99 EURO is drawn/in withdrawal from my bank account. As a poor student, this *** sucks balls. How the f can a big company like this scam people and get away with it is my question?

xondk

TO NOTE:
The TOS CLEARLY states:

"Your subscription will automatically renew on the expiration date of the then-current subscription term that You previously subscribed to, at a fee no greater than Bethesda’s then-current price at the time of renewal"

I would say that since they clearly state that it is ON the expiration date that they renew / draw the money, ESO is to me in clear violation of their own TOS since that time is yet to come since people have 30 days.

Though that said I am sure they would argue that they haven't actually charged the money 'just' reserved them.

Calistrasza

I had to stop reading after 16 pages. My assumption is that pages 17 through 68 are very much the same: "omg this sucks" vs "stop whining" or variations of the two.

My take on it, if anyone cares:

The problem here is wording. It's sloppy and confusing and most people take it at face value.

"The 30 days of unlimited game play begins when you select your preferred subscription plan on store.elderscrollsonline.com." <-- This says "when you SELECT your plan". It doesn't say "when you PAY FOR your plan". I don't know about you guys, but the word "select" to me means "choose" as in: "How do you want to pay for this subscription when the time comes?" -What are my options?- "You can pay using a credit card or pre-paid game cards." -Oh, alright. Uh. Since I don't have a credit card, I'll probably be using game cards most of the time. I'll pick that plan.- "Great, thanks for choosing ESO! Your free 30 days starts now."

"Select a plan" shouldn't mean "You have to pay a full month up front so we can use up your 30 days of free time and then we'll activate the time you paid for in order to access the free 30 days that came with your purchase of the game."

Also, this part bothers me greatly: "Subscription fees only charged for game access after the first 30 days, subject to cancellation by you at any time." I don't know about ESO but as far as I'm aware for most MMOs once a pre-paid game card has been used, you can't cancel or return it.

The worst part of this for me personally is that I truly enjoyed this game. It was a nice break from WoW, it was new enough that I found it engaging and entertaining but similar enough in style to Skyrim that I didn't feel completely lost. However, in light of this "policy", I have to consider my purchase of this game a waste of money and I probably will never cash in on my "free" 30 days, because I really can't justify an additional purchase in order to access something I've already paid for.

xondk

Calistrasza wrote: »

I can only agree with all this, and also on the game part, the GAME itself works and performs MUCH better then other mmo's launches I've seen, and seems to become even better once you get deeper into it, but the account system, where they handle you know...people's money. 1+1 = -2 apparently in that system.

vangelis866eb17_ESO

Darkstar4758 wrote: »

It's no different then buying gas using a credit or debit card at the pump ... sometimes an authorization charge (which can be far more than your purchase) gets put on your account and clears after a day or two. They stated up front that your account would be charged then refunded. I don't blame ZOS, I blame scammers and perpetuators of fraud. If it wasn't for people like that trying to rip companies off they wouldn't need such strict pre-authorization practices.

It's different because they are different products/services. I bought the digital edition with my card, I used the same card to set up a subscription plan. There is no practical reason as to the15e in my card instead of 2e would make sure im not a gold seller. As to people that want to use game cards there was no clear explanation on the matter before they bought the game. The TOS dosent cover Zenimax under any circumstances. If they cant provide access to the 30days of game time, they are obliged to fully compensate the buyer.

Darkstar4758

xundeadly wrote: »

I am actually surprised as to how stupid some people on here can be to not even know what half of us are even upset about... like is it that hard to grasp of a concept?

I know exactly what you are upset about, but I simply don't agree with it. Bottom line is you purchased a game that is p2p and now you are upset about having to pay. Sure their billing system could use a little work, but I don't remember the last p2p game I've played where I didn't have to setup a payment plan prior to access.

The only thing different here is pre-authorization, and I'll once again say that I don't blame ZOS for this. In a perfect world pre-authorization wouldn't be necessary but unfortunately we live in a reality where everyone is trying to get something for free. It's why you see pre-auth on just about EVERYTHING now, why renters are often required to supply the security deposit AND first and last month's rent, and why most places refuse paper checks these days. A "promise of payment" isn't what it used to be ... now days there needs to be something behind it, otherwise you are likely to get ripped.

I'll also once again say that I'm extremely sorry you can't access your game, and I hope it works out for you. I understand the frustration and why you're all angry, but think about it from an economic standpoint. Maybe ZOS took things too far, but can you REALLY fault them for trying to protect their assets?

Nishka

Darkstar4758 wrote: »

xundeadly wrote: »

I am actually surprised as to how stupid some people on here can be to not even know what half of us are even upset about... like is it that hard to grasp of a concept?

I know exactly what you are upset about, but I simply don't agree with it.

It's why you see pre-auth on just about EVERYTHING now, why renters are often required to supply the security deposit AND first and last month's rent, and why most places refuse paper checks these days.

It looks like EU talks to US. Just different standarts.

vangelis866eb17_ESO

If their goal was to protect their assets then
1. They should be clear about it before launch
2. Somebody has to get fired because what they managed to do is loose more subscribers, current or potential, over a weekend than any other mmo did.

xundeadly

Darkstar4758 wrote: »

xundeadly wrote: »

I am actually surprised as to how stupid some people on here can be to not even know what half of us are even upset about... like is it that hard to grasp of a concept?

I know exactly what you are upset about, but I simply don't agree with it. Bottom line is you purchased a game that is p2p and now you are upset about having to pay. Sure their billing system could use a little work, but I don't remember the last p2p game I've played where I didn't have to setup a payment plan prior to access.

The only thing different here is pre-authorization, and I'll once again say that I don't blame ZOS for this. In a perfect world pre-authorization wouldn't be necessary but unfortunately we live in a reality where everyone is trying to get something for free. It's why you see pre-auth on just about EVERYTHING now, why renters are often required to supply the security deposit AND first and last month's rent, and why most places refuse paper checks these days. A "promise of payment" isn't what it used to be ... now days there needs to be something behind it, otherwise you are likely to get ripped.

I'll also once again say that I'm extremely sorry you can't access your game, and I hope it works out for you. I understand the frustration and why you're all angry, but think about it from an economic standpoint. Maybe ZOS took things too far, but can you REALLY fault them for trying to protect their assets?

Im not at all upset about having to pay again, its the customer service and how they are responding that is rather frustrating

jaschacasadiob16_ESO

vangelis866eb17_ESO wrote: »

If their goal was to protect their assets then
1. They should be clear about it before launch
2. Somebody has to get fired because what they managed to do is loose more subscribers, current or potential, over a weekend than any other mmo did.

It would be indeed interesting to know how many paying users they lost in less than a week. But they won't give us that info, unfortunately...

Darkstar4758

vangelis866eb17_ESO wrote: »

If their goal was to protect their assets then
1. They should be clear about it before launch
2. Somebody has to get fired because what they managed to do is loose more subscribers, current or potential, over a weekend than any other mmo did.

I won't fault you on #1 ... better communication could have thwarted this entire issue. I'm all for enabling people to make informed decisions.

As far as #2 goes, I seriously doubt they have lost more subs over a weekend than any other mmo did. Seriously doubt that ... at least the game works. I could be wrong, but we won't know for sure until the dust from launch settles and the real damage can be assessed.

Magnoberta

I'm waiting for my refund to be processed. Had it with this. Shame, was looking forward to trying the game for 30 days. Would've gladly subscribed after that, but not like this, sorry.

Calistrasza

Magnoberta wrote: »

I'm waiting for my refund to be processed. Had it with this. Shame, was looking forward to trying the game for 30 days. Would've gladly subscribed after that, but not like this, sorry.

I wasn't sure I could get the game refunded without going through a bunch of crap. How difficult was this process for you?

vangelis866eb17_ESO

Darkstar dont get me wrong, I love the game. I m an old DAoC fan and I counted the days till it came out. I wasnt dissapointed in the least. The bug/lag issues are minor and the launch was better than most of the other mmos I played. And thats what makes me more angry. But after what happened its a tough choice for many people if they will remain subscribers to the game.

xondk

Darkstar4758 wrote: »

I think you are viewing it slightly off.

The 30 days won't cost ESO anything since they are included in the product we purchased, if we do not have the money, on the date that we need to renew the subscription. The payment won't work and won't get authorized and thus ESO will not allow you to play any longer.

Why would they need to reserve the money a month in advance, to make sure they get them? there is absolutely no need for that.
And no other MMO does it this way, because if the charging of your credit card fails on the date that you need your subscription renewed they simply won't give you the product, since you didn't pay for it.

Currently its like.....I want to buy something in 30 days so those that make that product should reserve the money now to make sure they get it? even though I might along the line chance my mind and not buy the product?
What about those that have cancelled the subscription? their money is still reserved.
There is no way it should happen or work like this.

and I want to point out in case you use as example, rent and such is payed ahead of time, for various reasons including such things are people not living somewhere and then running from the bills.

Products such as subscriptions are payed at time of purchase. Kinda like gas really, we fuel up when we need it, and 'run' on that fuel until empty, if we do not pay for the gas then we do not get to drive the car that is eso

Magnoberta

Calistrasza wrote: »

Magnoberta wrote: »

I'm waiting for my refund to be processed. Had it with this. Shame, was looking forward to trying the game for 30 days. Would've gladly subscribed after that, but not like this, sorry.

I wasn't sure I could get the game refunded without going through a bunch of crap. How difficult was this process for you?

Not too difficult so far, but I have not got my money back just yet. I opened a ticket in which I stated that I felt it wasn't right that I should have to enter a subscription plan (even if my card wouldn't get charged) because I have bought the game thinking I would have 30 days to try it. So I requested a refund within 7 days or I would seek legal advise about this business practice.
I received a reply within a couple of hours asking for one of 4 details (one being the last 4 digits of my card I used to purchase) in order to help with the refund. I have submitted that information about an hour ago. Now waiting for a reply. Fingers crossed.

Kiwi

5th day, the money is still missing from my bank

Calistrasza

Magnoberta wrote: »

Calistrasza wrote: »

Magnoberta wrote: »

I'm waiting for my refund to be processed. Had it with this. Shame, was looking forward to trying the game for 30 days. Would've gladly subscribed after that, but not like this, sorry.

I wasn't sure I could get the game refunded without going through a bunch of crap. How difficult was this process for you?

Not too difficult so far, but I have not got my money back just yet. I opened a ticket in which I stated that I felt it wasn't right that I should have to enter a subscription plan (even if my card wouldn't get charged) because I have bought the game thinking I would have 30 days to try it. So I requested a refund within 7 days or I would seek legal advise about this business practice.
I received a reply within a couple of hours asking for one of 4 details (one being the last 4 digits of my card I used to purchase) in order to help with the refund. I have submitted that information about an hour ago. Now waiting for a reply. Fingers crossed.

Good luck with it. I used a disposable credit card, so I'm pretty sure that money's completely lost (disposable meaning it's a 1-time use number). Ah well. Live and learn, I suppose.

Magnoberta

Calistrasza wrote: »

Good luck with it. I used a disposable credit card, so I'm pretty sure that money's completely lost (disposable meaning it's a 1-time use number). Ah well. Live and learn, I suppose.

Thanks. I will wait and see. It shouldn't really matter how you have paid for it. I mean, saying "we can't refund you because you used a disposable credit card" would sound like a cheap excuse. But I'm not familiar with disposable credit cards and consumer rights/laws are different in each country. Just trying to say don't give in too easily.

brodieradiob14_ESO

Zenimax, you have had plenty of chances to resolve these issues, and you have REFUSED. See you in court.

Omar_Comin

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Upon setting up your subscription plan you may see an initial transaction against your account however this transaction is only temporary.

It's been 5 days. I'd like my funds released, TIA.

GREEN_SEVEN

Kiwi wrote: »

5th day, the money is still missing from my bank

I too am keeping an eye on the time frame. I entered a valid subscription plan, as directed. I cancelled that subscription plan immediately, as stated that I can do. Now it's up to ZOS to make the situation better or worse.

PinkOrk

Calistrasza wrote: »

I had to stop reading after 16 pages. My assumption is that pages 17 through 68 are very much the same: "omg this sucks" vs "stop whining" or variations of the two.

My take on it, if anyone cares:

The problem here is wording. It's sloppy and confusing and most people take it at face value.

"The 30 days of unlimited game play begins when you select your preferred subscription plan on store.elderscrollsonline.com." <-- This says "when you SELECT your plan". It doesn't say "when you PAY FOR your plan". I don't know about you guys, but the word "select" to me means "choose" as in: "How do you want to pay for this subscription when the time comes?" -What are my options?- "You can pay using a credit card or pre-paid game cards." -Oh, alright. Uh. Since I don't have a credit card, I'll probably be using game cards most of the time. I'll pick that plan.- "Great, thanks for choosing ESO! Your free 30 days starts now."

"Select a plan" shouldn't mean "You have to pay a full month up front so we can use up your 30 days of free time and then we'll activate the time you paid for in order to access the free 30 days that came with your purchase of the game."

Also, this part bothers me greatly: "Subscription fees only charged for game access after the first 30 days, subject to cancellation by you at any time." I don't know about ESO but as far as I'm aware for most MMOs once a pre-paid game card has been used, you can't cancel or return it.

The worst part of this for me personally is that I truly enjoyed this game. It was a nice break from WoW, it was new enough that I found it engaging and entertaining but similar enough in style to Skyrim that I didn't feel completely lost. However, in light of this "policy", I have to consider my purchase of this game a waste of money and I probably will never cash in on my "free" 30 days, because I really can't justify an additional purchase in order to access something I've already paid for.

Have to agree completely with this.

Was waiting to feel around 30 days if i like the game or not, now maybe never will… for me it was enough to support this game in advance by pre-ordering it, but i will not gamble with my money again. Lesson learned the hard way...

Grizzly_UK

Omar_Comin wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Upon setting up your subscription plan you may see an initial transaction against your account however this transaction is only temporary.

It's been 5 days. I'd like my funds released, TIA.

You need to contact your bank or credit card company, Zenimax are NOT the ones holding the "preauthorization". Maybe this will be of help: Authorization Hold

Omar_Comin

Grizzly_UK wrote: »

Omar_Comin wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Upon setting up your subscription plan you may see an initial transaction against your account however this transaction is only temporary.

It's been 5 days. I'd like my funds released, TIA.

You need to contact your bank or credit card company, Zenimax are NOT the ones holding the "preauthorization". Maybe this will be of help: Authorization Hold

Maybe you should read the first sentence of the article you linked:

"Authorization hold (also card authorization, preauthorization, or preauth) is the practice within the banking industry of authorizing electronic transactions done with a debit card or credit card and holding this balance as unavailable either until the merchant clears the transaction (also called settlement), or the hold "falls off."

deruddb14_ESO

So this past Sunday, they do an authorization charge from my bank account for US$14.99. Just checked my account, the money has been taken from my account to their account. Will there be a charge back or not?