Maintenance for the week of January 6:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – January 6
• NA megaservers for maintenance – January 8, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 8:00AM EST (13:00 UTC)
• EU megaservers for maintenance – January 8, 9:00 UTC (4:00AM EST) - 13:00 UTC (8:00AM EST)
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – January 6
• NA megaservers for maintenance – January 8, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 8:00AM EST (13:00 UTC)
• EU megaservers for maintenance – January 8, 9:00 UTC (4:00AM EST) - 13:00 UTC (8:00AM EST)
RIP ESOU
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LadyGP✭✭✭✭✭
✭Wow, this Nefas video.
Going to keep this tight lipped because I don't want to be banned... this isn't the first time I've heard of what he said in the video happening to people involved with ESO.Will the real LadyGP please stand up.16 -
colossalvoids✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭colossalvoids wrote: »Warhawke_80 wrote: »Warhawke_80 wrote: »Warhawke_80 wrote: »What's ESOU?
What indeed...
Most people could give two figs about raiding in ESO, so naturally a channel like that wouldn't get much engagement in the first place...
I'm pretty sure things like DLC dungeons and Trials are going to be opened up to the average player soon anyway...I mean, why leave all that content deserted for a demographic that will never show up?
big true. they should honestly just put easy modes on everything. Make it like overland mobs, where you can kill everything naked. Casual players really dont have access to enough content in this game, and its really a darn shame.
Sarcasm aside...facts are facts and the facts are less than 1% of the population raids less than 4% participates in PVP....if you spend a ridiculous amount of money for content no one participates in... what then?
Oh I Know!!!!!
You make content for the audience you have.
That's interesting, given there are 5000 unique accounts that have posted trials clears to the ESO Clears bot. That means that PC has at least 500,000 players that have logged in since this summer (when the bot went live), mostly on NA (as the bot originated in NA servers - I don't know how much it is used in EU).
Bots really aren't a great way to gather metrics....
ya, better to just throw random numbers out there like 1% and 4%. I cant with you guys. Where did you even come up with that?
Just forum things.
Anyways it's not surprising most people are indeed don't care about anything that do not directly affects them without consideration of a broader community or overall health of the game. In-game isn't that different from irl at that. If that's not in my yard that's not my issue... no matter nearby houses are already on fire. It's fine.
yes you are certainly correct here, but unfortunately I see this type of behavior coming from one specific part of the community far more often than anywhere else. Its like a sense of entitlement, especially like the comment i was responding to with my previous one. Its honestly shocking how entitled it comes off as.
Im sure it happens but its rare i see long time players, who take this game a bit more serious than questing, say these type of things. Like raiders or pvpers saying "lets make everything in the game like a raid so we can have it the way we want it". Its just silly. an mmo should have places for all kinds of players, and eso always did that very well. Before companions, before dumbing combat down, before dumbing everything down, casual players had so much of this game. Every chapter, every patch. And no one i have seen has tried to take that away from them.
People may think making overland content more difficult is trying to take it away, but its not. There were plenty of causal players that enjoyed this game before one tamriel. And there is a balance to be found here. But when brand new players with barely an CP have to unequip most of their gear, and remove all of their CP, to feel somewhat engaged by the overland content, i think we may have a problem.
Funny that the part of the message I've deleted before posting was almost word to word what you have posted above:And the sad thing is these type of players will never understand. When the game shuts down one day, if its because its failing, they will blame vet players, or pvpers, or just say it was too old, or make some excuse. When in reality an mmorpg is an eco system of players. You need new players coming in that want to aspire to do things, to break off into different parts of the game. Questing, raiding, achievement hunting, collecting, pvp, crafting, trading, community stuff, etc. And you need vet players to stick around and help new people get there, or even be a goal for these people to reach.
It really encapsulates the whole discussion here, discussion that is not happening. You can't reason with someone who's not ready to be reasoned with and likely never would. Gladly that's present mostly exclusively on forums, which is a double edged sword as it's also the place that's getting the most attention from devs, if we can call this attention.17 -
Lags✭✭✭✭✭colossalvoids wrote: »colossalvoids wrote: »Warhawke_80 wrote: »Warhawke_80 wrote: »Warhawke_80 wrote: »What's ESOU?
What indeed...
Most people could give two figs about raiding in ESO, so naturally a channel like that wouldn't get much engagement in the first place...
I'm pretty sure things like DLC dungeons and Trials are going to be opened up to the average player soon anyway...I mean, why leave all that content deserted for a demographic that will never show up?
big true. they should honestly just put easy modes on everything. Make it like overland mobs, where you can kill everything naked. Casual players really dont have access to enough content in this game, and its really a darn shame.
Sarcasm aside...facts are facts and the facts are less than 1% of the population raids less than 4% participates in PVP....if you spend a ridiculous amount of money for content no one participates in... what then?
Oh I Know!!!!!
You make content for the audience you have.
That's interesting, given there are 5000 unique accounts that have posted trials clears to the ESO Clears bot. That means that PC has at least 500,000 players that have logged in since this summer (when the bot went live), mostly on NA (as the bot originated in NA servers - I don't know how much it is used in EU).
Bots really aren't a great way to gather metrics....
ya, better to just throw random numbers out there like 1% and 4%. I cant with you guys. Where did you even come up with that?
Just forum things.
Anyways it's not surprising most people are indeed don't care about anything that do not directly affects them without consideration of a broader community or overall health of the game. In-game isn't that different from irl at that. If that's not in my yard that's not my issue... no matter nearby houses are already on fire. It's fine.
yes you are certainly correct here, but unfortunately I see this type of behavior coming from one specific part of the community far more often than anywhere else. Its like a sense of entitlement, especially like the comment i was responding to with my previous one. Its honestly shocking how entitled it comes off as.
Im sure it happens but its rare i see long time players, who take this game a bit more serious than questing, say these type of things. Like raiders or pvpers saying "lets make everything in the game like a raid so we can have it the way we want it". Its just silly. an mmo should have places for all kinds of players, and eso always did that very well. Before companions, before dumbing combat down, before dumbing everything down, casual players had so much of this game. Every chapter, every patch. And no one i have seen has tried to take that away from them.
People may think making overland content more difficult is trying to take it away, but its not. There were plenty of causal players that enjoyed this game before one tamriel. And there is a balance to be found here. But when brand new players with barely an CP have to unequip most of their gear, and remove all of their CP, to feel somewhat engaged by the overland content, i think we may have a problem.
Funny that the part of the message I've deleted before posting was almost word to word what you have posted above:And the sad thing is these type of players will never understand. When the game shuts down one day, if its because its failing, they will blame vet players, or pvpers, or just say it was too old, or make some excuse. When in reality an mmorpg is an eco system of players. You need new players coming in that want to aspire to do things, to break off into different parts of the game. Questing, raiding, achievement hunting, collecting, pvp, crafting, trading, community stuff, etc. And you need vet players to stick around and help new people get there, or even be a goal for these people to reach.
It really encapsulates the whole discussion here, discussion that is not happening. You can't reason with someone who's not ready to be reasoned with and likely never would. Gladly that's present mostly exclusively on forums, which is a double edged sword as it's also the place that's getting the most attention from devs, if we can call this attention.
the forums have always been an issue in that way. Its strange. And ya, its good that you dont see them often in game but bad for the forums. Especially if zos is trying to gauge the player base. I always tell people to voice their opinions on the forums, but so many just stopped caring, or never wanted to bother.7 -
LadyGP✭✭✭✭✭
✭BananaBender wrote: »To me it's not really about him leaving, he has been going for a while. What matters more is why he left. This is just one more thing to add on the massive list about ZoS' communication problems and how they interact with the player base.
I think people are just ignoring and casting this case aside simply because he is a content creator and not to their liking. It's just wild and alarming how ZoS handled the situation as a whole, but it's not really that surprising considering how their communication with players have been over the past few years.
To me this is just another nail in the coffin...
It's also hilarious how wild conclusions people draw without actually watching the whole video.
This is the post of the situation. Period.Will the real LadyGP please stand up.13 -
CatoUnchained✭✭✭✭✭CrazyKitty wrote: ». If you think it's so easy, why aren't you a content creator?
Not speaking on the difficulty of the "job" but here are some reasons:
1. Being a public figure is not for everyone
2. Investments for technical setup, as mentioned
3. Working for a niche audience that is mostly not going to provide direct financial support
4. Any "content" can be invalidated due to game changes at any time - the "content" essentially depends on the game developers to a large degree
5. There is very little objective value in the "product" you provide to the audience: The entire knowledge is accessible in game, by playing the game, by talking to others or by consulting other media (e.g. competing creators, official sources). It is entirely optional and therefore the value of the "content" depends strictly on the consumer (entertainment & information derived).
6. You basically act as advertiser for the game. There is true value in that, as long as you want to promote the game. This isn't really a negative point, but it can be a thankless relationship.
Many opinions here are dismissive of people who don't value the "content" from these creators and immediately associate the respective posters with a low understanding of the game. This does not make the arguments more compelling. This type of "content" just isn't useful to everyone and many people just don't decide to worship figures like Nefas simply because others celebrate them. I see their value as free PR-worker for the game, but otherwise there is just no connection for me to this type of media or this player. I haven't watched that video yet, maybe I will if I tomorrow. This is also not meant to absolve ZOS of anything that is said in the video.
This thread seems however very dramatic for a video game related database. Criticise the game and devs if you wish for change, "vote with your wallet" if you think that is what it takes. If you fear for the well being of the game and think people need more of this type of media or help, do it yourself or support someone who works towards this. Not needing or wanting something like ESOU doesn't disqualify anyone as a person.
People have been voting with their wallets. (it's the vet end game community that opened their wallets the widest and most frequently, despite what the casual player tends to think) That's the problem ZOS is running into as are those of us who enjoy(ed) ESO for so many years and participated exclusively in end game content. They even cancelled their in person meet this year during their 10 year anniversary. And have since announced there will be no new scheduled content releases going forward. Do you honestly think this is just coincidence?
ZOS was clearly warned by none other than Nefas and many other content creators that U35 was doomsday in a lot of ways. ZOS didn't listen. And it turns out the content creators were right all along.
The rest of your post serves very well to explain why not just anyone can be a successful content creator and why so few can do it. Ultimately this is a division between the casual questers who don't need tutorials to learn how to mow down mobs that fall down dead if you dare look in their direction vs. the competitive end game players, who rely heavily on each other to understand and beat the games toughest content.....content the casual quester seems to not even realize is part of the game. One person posting in this thread said they had to look up what a trifecta even was.
Everyone loses from the exodus of content creators. ZOS loses the most of any other group in this discussion.
Edited by CatoUnchained on January 3, 2025 12:36AM21 -
manukartofanu✭✭✭✭✭colossalvoids wrote: »colossalvoids wrote: »Warhawke_80 wrote: »Warhawke_80 wrote: »Warhawke_80 wrote: »What's ESOU?
What indeed...
Most people could give two figs about raiding in ESO, so naturally a channel like that wouldn't get much engagement in the first place...
I'm pretty sure things like DLC dungeons and Trials are going to be opened up to the average player soon anyway...I mean, why leave all that content deserted for a demographic that will never show up?
big true. they should honestly just put easy modes on everything. Make it like overland mobs, where you can kill everything naked. Casual players really dont have access to enough content in this game, and its really a darn shame.
Sarcasm aside...facts are facts and the facts are less than 1% of the population raids less than 4% participates in PVP....if you spend a ridiculous amount of money for content no one participates in... what then?
Oh I Know!!!!!
You make content for the audience you have.
That's interesting, given there are 5000 unique accounts that have posted trials clears to the ESO Clears bot. That means that PC has at least 500,000 players that have logged in since this summer (when the bot went live), mostly on NA (as the bot originated in NA servers - I don't know how much it is used in EU).
Bots really aren't a great way to gather metrics....
ya, better to just throw random numbers out there like 1% and 4%. I cant with you guys. Where did you even come up with that?
Just forum things.
Anyways it's not surprising most people are indeed don't care about anything that do not directly affects them without consideration of a broader community or overall health of the game. In-game isn't that different from irl at that. If that's not in my yard that's not my issue... no matter nearby houses are already on fire. It's fine.
yes you are certainly correct here, but unfortunately I see this type of behavior coming from one specific part of the community far more often than anywhere else. Its like a sense of entitlement, especially like the comment i was responding to with my previous one. Its honestly shocking how entitled it comes off as.
Im sure it happens but its rare i see long time players, who take this game a bit more serious than questing, say these type of things. Like raiders or pvpers saying "lets make everything in the game like a raid so we can have it the way we want it". Its just silly. an mmo should have places for all kinds of players, and eso always did that very well. Before companions, before dumbing combat down, before dumbing everything down, casual players had so much of this game. Every chapter, every patch. And no one i have seen has tried to take that away from them.
People may think making overland content more difficult is trying to take it away, but its not. There were plenty of causal players that enjoyed this game before one tamriel. And there is a balance to be found here. But when brand new players with barely an CP have to unequip most of their gear, and remove all of their CP, to feel somewhat engaged by the overland content, i think we may have a problem.
Funny that the part of the message I've deleted before posting was almost word to word what you have posted above:And the sad thing is these type of players will never understand. When the game shuts down one day, if its because its failing, they will blame vet players, or pvpers, or just say it was too old, or make some excuse. When in reality an mmorpg is an eco system of players. You need new players coming in that want to aspire to do things, to break off into different parts of the game. Questing, raiding, achievement hunting, collecting, pvp, crafting, trading, community stuff, etc. And you need vet players to stick around and help new people get there, or even be a goal for these people to reach.
It really encapsulates the whole discussion here, discussion that is not happening. You can't reason with someone who's not ready to be reasoned with and likely never would. Gladly that's present mostly exclusively on forums, which is a double edged sword as it's also the place that's getting the most attention from devs, if we can call this attention.
the forums have always been an issue in that way. Its strange. And ya, its good that you dont see them often in game but bad for the forums. Especially if zos is trying to gauge the player base. I always tell people to voice their opinions on the forums, but so many just stopped caring, or never wanted to bother.
People talking without speaking,
People hearing without listening...1 -
CatoUnchained✭✭✭✭✭manukartofanu wrote: »colossalvoids wrote: »colossalvoids wrote: »Warhawke_80 wrote: »Warhawke_80 wrote: »Warhawke_80 wrote: »What's ESOU?
What indeed...
Most people could give two figs about raiding in ESO, so naturally a channel like that wouldn't get much engagement in the first place...
I'm pretty sure things like DLC dungeons and Trials are going to be opened up to the average player soon anyway...I mean, why leave all that content deserted for a demographic that will never show up?
big true. they should honestly just put easy modes on everything. Make it like overland mobs, where you can kill everything naked. Casual players really dont have access to enough content in this game, and its really a darn shame.
Sarcasm aside...facts are facts and the facts are less than 1% of the population raids less than 4% participates in PVP....if you spend a ridiculous amount of money for content no one participates in... what then?
Oh I Know!!!!!
You make content for the audience you have.
That's interesting, given there are 5000 unique accounts that have posted trials clears to the ESO Clears bot. That means that PC has at least 500,000 players that have logged in since this summer (when the bot went live), mostly on NA (as the bot originated in NA servers - I don't know how much it is used in EU).
Bots really aren't a great way to gather metrics....
ya, better to just throw random numbers out there like 1% and 4%. I cant with you guys. Where did you even come up with that?
Just forum things.
Anyways it's not surprising most people are indeed don't care about anything that do not directly affects them without consideration of a broader community or overall health of the game. In-game isn't that different from irl at that. If that's not in my yard that's not my issue... no matter nearby houses are already on fire. It's fine.
yes you are certainly correct here, but unfortunately I see this type of behavior coming from one specific part of the community far more often than anywhere else. Its like a sense of entitlement, especially like the comment i was responding to with my previous one. Its honestly shocking how entitled it comes off as.
Im sure it happens but its rare i see long time players, who take this game a bit more serious than questing, say these type of things. Like raiders or pvpers saying "lets make everything in the game like a raid so we can have it the way we want it". Its just silly. an mmo should have places for all kinds of players, and eso always did that very well. Before companions, before dumbing combat down, before dumbing everything down, casual players had so much of this game. Every chapter, every patch. And no one i have seen has tried to take that away from them.
People may think making overland content more difficult is trying to take it away, but its not. There were plenty of causal players that enjoyed this game before one tamriel. And there is a balance to be found here. But when brand new players with barely an CP have to unequip most of their gear, and remove all of their CP, to feel somewhat engaged by the overland content, i think we may have a problem.
Funny that the part of the message I've deleted before posting was almost word to word what you have posted above:And the sad thing is these type of players will never understand. When the game shuts down one day, if its because its failing, they will blame vet players, or pvpers, or just say it was too old, or make some excuse. When in reality an mmorpg is an eco system of players. You need new players coming in that want to aspire to do things, to break off into different parts of the game. Questing, raiding, achievement hunting, collecting, pvp, crafting, trading, community stuff, etc. And you need vet players to stick around and help new people get there, or even be a goal for these people to reach.
It really encapsulates the whole discussion here, discussion that is not happening. You can't reason with someone who's not ready to be reasoned with and likely never would. Gladly that's present mostly exclusively on forums, which is a double edged sword as it's also the place that's getting the most attention from devs, if we can call this attention.
the forums have always been an issue in that way. Its strange. And ya, its good that you dont see them often in game but bad for the forums. Especially if zos is trying to gauge the player base. I always tell people to voice their opinions on the forums, but so many just stopped caring, or never wanted to bother.
People talking without speaking,
People hearing without listening...
I totally agree with where you're going with this, but others might not follow, so I'm posting the entire song lyrics as it's an excellent commentary on where we find ourselves today with ESO.
The Sounds of Silence - by Simon and Garfunkel (no, Disturbed did not write this song. It's too good to be that new
)
Hello, darkness, my old friend
I've come to talk with you again
Because a vision softly creeping
Left its seeds while I was sleeping
And the vision that was planted in my brain
Still remains within the sound of silence
In restless dreams I walked alone
Narrow streets of cobblestone
Beneath the halo of a street lamp
I turned my collar to the cold and damp
When my eyes were stabbed by the flash of a neon light
That split the night
And touched the sound of silence
And in the naked light I saw
Ten thousand people, maybe more
People talking without speaking
People hearing without listening
People writing songs that voices never share...
No one dare disturb the sound of silence
Fools said I do not know
Silence like a cancer grows
Hear my words that I might teach you
Take my arms that I might reach you
But my words like silent raindrops fell
And echoed in the wells of silence
And the people bowed and prayed to the neon god they made
And the sign flashed out its warning
In the words that it was forming
And the signs said the words of the prophets are written on the subway walls
And tenement halls
And whisper'd in the sound of silence
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fWyzwo1xg0&ab_channel=SimonGarfunkelVEVO
Edited by CatoUnchained on January 3, 2025 12:52AM0 -
Erickson9610✭✭✭✭✭
✭What would be everyone's ideal scenario? Would everything be fixed if all the content creators returned and ZOS listened to them? What sort of game would ESO be, ideally?PC/NA — Lone Werewolf, the Templar Khajiit Werewolf
Werewolf Should be Allowed to Sneak
Please give us Werewolf Skill Styles (for customizing our fur color), Grimoires/Scribing skills (to fill in the holes in our builds), and Companions (to transform with).3 -
CatoUnchained✭✭✭✭✭...now we just need to "bridge over (this) troubled water"
Sorry, couldn't resist. 4 -
CatoUnchained✭✭✭✭✭Erickson9610 wrote: »What would be everyone's ideal scenario? Would everything be fixed if all the content creators returned and ZOS listened to them? What sort of game would ESO be, ideally?
Ideally ESO would be an MMO with a heavy focus on PvP and end game PvE so everyone has something to work toward, as the original game designers intended for it to be. The main focus should be on the thing that made ESO really stand out, the great combat system. Not housing, card games and cosmetics.17 -
Valion✭✭✭Erickson9610 wrote: »What would be everyone's ideal scenario? Would everything be fixed if all the content creators returned and ZOS listened to them? What sort of game would ESO be, ideally?
We are not used to "democratical" approaches on these matters, so I think this would be a learning progress on a scale level above just one game.
And maybe you cannot compare it genre-wise,
but Europa Universalis would be a great example of how such an interaction could work out.
(Their monetization system, on the other hand, was very off-putting for me.)
There, community feedback always had a major influence on the series' progress.
And very successful at that!
The gaming industry seems to be very much organized like a feudal reign.
But then again, just look up for those games with very positive consumer reviews, say, on Steam:
You will always (sic!) find that the devs listen to the community for those games.
As always in life,
dominance is inferior to compromise
which is inferior to consensus."What does not redound to the swarm's advantage, that does not serve the single bee either."
- Marc Aurel1 -
BananaBender✭✭✭✭Erickson9610 wrote: »What would be everyone's ideal scenario? Would everything be fixed if all the content creators returned and ZOS listened to them? What sort of game would ESO be, ideally?
This doesn't really address the situation with Nefas. We know only a little bit of the details of the situation and only the view from Nefas' side, and I'm sure ZOS isn't going to address this situation in any way either, so instead I'm going to focus on the problems with communication that ZOS has.
I can't speak for everyone, but for me the ideal scenario is for ZOS to actually start communicating with the player base. Receiving feedback, finetuning changes and giving some reasonings for the changes. And not just here on the forums, but on other platforms as well. To me it seems like the whole studio is a black box and nobody on the outside has any idea what's happening on the inside. Nobody I know who does any for of end game content, be it PvE or PvP is pleased at the direction the game is taking, because no one even knows what that direction is! People are complaining about warden having too much healing in PvP so they nerf the wrong morph leaving everyone annoyed. Necro needing a buff so they gut their most used skill forcing everyone to use the same morph. Borderline fight breaking bugs reported already on PTS still being in the game today. I could go on and on, but you get the point. Changes being made, people providing their feedback yet we hear nothing back.
I'm not saying the game is horrible and every choice made by the devs are bad ones. I and many others still love playing ESO and that's why we feel so passionately about the future of the game. There have been some really good changes in the past years, even after U35, but then there have been some mindbogglingly poor ones. All of this, and the complete lack of willingness to go back on some changes that they have made is just leaving all of us feeling like there is no feedback being received at all on ZOS' end.
I'm no longer really looking forwards for a new patch because I'm scared they will make even more changes that leave everyone being worse off.
13 -
Vaqual✭✭✭✭✭CatoUnchained wrote: »Ultimately this is a division between the casual questers who don't need tutorials to learn how to mow down mobs that fall down dead if you dare look in their direction vs. the competitive end game players, who rely heavily on each other to understand and beat the games toughest content.[/i]
No, this is simply an unnecessary simplification and division. You can absolutely progress on your own or with people who do not tap into these types of sources. This was a major point I was trying to make. There is no direct dependency on this type of media for a player to master all content. Yes, people can benefit from it - but it is not required. At some point people started from 0, and it took them what? A a couple weeks on regular schedule or a few no-life mode nights per trial release?
This game isn't rocket science. You need people that signify that there lies value in the time commitment and people to play with that like doing the content. You don't really need to have the content to be chewed up and regurgitated for easy consumption.1 -
colossalvoids✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Erickson9610 wrote: »What would be everyone's ideal scenario? Would everything be fixed if all the content creators returned and ZOS listened to them? What sort of game would ESO be, ideally?
You're honestly hyperfixated on content creators here. Whilst it's part of the topic it's a slice of the very well seen demographic and their viewer base and consumers of the tools they provide.
No one will return, people are gone and most seem happy they did as far as I saw personally, ESO is mostly referred as exiting abusive relationships there. People were immensely disappointed by the company in general. And those tens are representative of those tens of thousands of same minded individuals who's following them, which are also are a huge slice of the community that just isn't really seen so we refer back to content creators, add-on devs, guild masters etc. as those are easier to grasp.
All zos can do is go transparent, admit mistakes made (not vague but concrete ones) and try honestly fix them while being transparent. They absolutely need another "class rep" program no matter how they're got burned by it as it's a game for it's community, not a constant ego booster. Take trade guilds GM's, trial leads, roleplay
masters etc, experienced people are still lurking around like Code, even saw Joy some month back so those are still around to be approached. If the company would eventually turn around some would answer surely, but obviously not everyone.
We all know it's not gonna happen though.10 -
Erickson9610✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think I'm getting a better understanding of the community's thought process here. I do wish ZOS would revisit some of their previous balance changes and at least offer an explanation if not a compromise to the playerbase who objected to the changes. If the combat system is the main game to some people, then it's no wonder they feel the game is going downhill — too much time has been put on features they can't or won't use. When will ZOS fix the combat issues?PC/NA — Lone Werewolf, the Templar Khajiit Werewolf
Werewolf Should be Allowed to Sneak
Please give us Werewolf Skill Styles (for customizing our fur color), Grimoires/Scribing skills (to fill in the holes in our builds), and Companions (to transform with).2 -
wilykcat✭✭✭✭✭
✭?Wow, this Nefas video.
Going to keep this tight lipped because I don't want to be banned... this isn't the first time I've heard of what he said in the video happening to people involved with ESO.
Same here. I have a strong opinion against content creators but I won't say it here either.Edited by wilykcat on January 3, 2025 2:58AM2 -
karthrag_inak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Dark moons, it's like the guy who sells fake t-shirts outside the concert hall is all grumpy and pissed because the band has had enough of his crap.PC-NA : 19 Khajiit and 1 Fishy-cat with fluffy delusions. cp3600
GM of Imperial Gold Reserve trading guild (started in 2017) since 2/2022
Come visit Karth's Glitter Box, Khajiit's home. Fully stocked guild hall done in sleek Khajiit stylings, with Grand Master Stations, Transmute, Scribing, Trial Dummies, etc. Also has 2 full bowling alleys, nightclub, and floating maze over Wrothgar.9 -
Warhawke_80✭✭✭✭✭Warhawke_80 wrote: »Warhawke_80 wrote: »Warhawke_80 wrote: »Warhawke_80 wrote: »What's ESOU?
What indeed...
Most people could give two figs about raiding in ESO, so naturally a channel like that wouldn't get much engagement in the first place...
I'm pretty sure things like DLC dungeons and Trials are going to be opened up to the average player soon anyway...I mean, why leave all that content deserted for a demographic that will never show up?
big true. they should honestly just put easy modes on everything. Make it like overland mobs, where you can kill everything naked. Casual players really dont have access to enough content in this game, and its really a darn shame.
Sarcasm aside...facts are facts and the facts are less than 1% of the population raids less than 4% participates in PVP....if you spend a ridiculous amount of money for content no one participates in... what then?
Oh I Know!!!!!
You make content for the audience you have.
That's interesting, given there are 5000 unique accounts that have posted trials clears to the ESO Clears bot. That means that PC has at least 500,000 players that have logged in since this summer (when the bot went live), mostly on NA (as the bot originated in NA servers - I don't know how much it is used in EU).
So?
Anyone with any actual knowledge understands that bots really aren't a great way to gather metrics....
True. It's almost certainly underestimating the number of people who engage with trials.
Point taken...
But we can see with our own eyes very few people are participating in Trials...and the sad truth of it is that ZoS isn't going to cater more to an audience that isn't there...and Trials are the single most expensive content that can be developed
What makes you think trials are the most expensive content? You need like, less than 10 voice actors (quest giver, friendly NPCs, and the bosses, if they even have any lines). You can reuse assets from existing content (Asylum having Clockwork City assets, Kynes Aegis having Western Skyrim assets, Sanity’s Edge has some new assets but also takes you through existing areas). You need to design the fights but so do you for all the worldbosses, delve bosses, wandering world bosses, etc. in overland. You have to design 4 pieces of gear, but you also design crafted and overland gear for overland…
People who do trials also seem to spend a lot on crown crates and are also hooked into buying new DLC if any part of it contains gear that would be useful or a new trial attached.
Not to mention the loss of overlanders that will happen with TES6.
/Shrug.... I dunno maybe because Rich said it was three or four times over the years.... I think if anyone he would know....““Elric knew. The sword told him, without words of any sort. Stormbringer needed to fight, for that was its reason for existence...”― Michael Moorcock, Elric of Melniboné3 -
Lags✭✭✭✭✭colossalvoids wrote: »Erickson9610 wrote: »What would be everyone's ideal scenario? Would everything be fixed if all the content creators returned and ZOS listened to them? What sort of game would ESO be, ideally?
You're honestly hyperfixated on content creators here. Whilst it's part of the topic it's a slice of the very well seen demographic and their viewer base and consumers of the tools they provide.
No one will return, people are gone and most seem happy they did as far as I saw personally, ESO is mostly referred as exiting abusive relationships there. People were immensely disappointed by the company in general. And those tens are representative of those tens of thousands of same minded individuals who's following them, which are also are a huge slice of the community that just isn't really seen so we refer back to content creators, add-on devs, guild masters etc. as those are easier to grasp.
All zos can do is go transparent, admit mistakes made (not vague but concrete ones) and try honestly fix them while being transparent. They absolutely need another "class rep" program no matter how they're got burned by it as it's a game for it's community, not a constant ego booster. Take trade guilds GM's, trial leads, roleplay
masters etc, experienced people are still lurking around like Code, even saw Joy some month back so those are still around to be approached. If the company would eventually turn around some would answer surely, but obviously not everyone.
We all know it's not gonna happen though.
people will comeback if they change things. Make better changes, reverse bad changes, make the game exciting again. And unfortunately many of those type of players, guild leaders, content creators, addon devs, etc. are vet/long term/end game players that have been chased away. Its sad, people used to care so much but people can also only tolerate so much. And that brings me to my next point.
They refuse to be transparent. they refuse to admit mistakes. They refuse to listen to players in certain aspects of the community, about the aspect of the community they are trying to change. Or players in general about things like communication. I have seen some good things from zos recently. The willingness to listen and maybe change with moderation. Some of the points in the creative director letter. But on the other hand, i dont think they've stopped using AI to moderate, and the creative director letter has lied to us before. Zos has lied to use before, or not fufilled what they said. So what we need more than anything is commitment, good changes, communication, and follow through. Not empty promises or ideas. And we need it to not take forever.
but if im being honest, after seeing the nefas video, i am even more worried. So many of the people at zos come off as so self absorbed and out of touch. We all know they work hard on eso. We all know they have done great things in the past. But you have to be able to admit you're wrong and be willing to try new things, and i dont see that. I never have. Like the way the class rep program went, or any of the other programs. Or their communication with content creators, about things that players wanted, that seemingly lead nowhere.14 -
gronoxvx✭✭✭✭✭The sad thing about it is 99% of the issues with zos come from those who make decisions about the game (management etc) compared to those doing the designing, coding and actually working on the game. As long as they are milking the whales nothing will change and those managers will still hit their KPI's as the community dwindles.
Its funny the claim of being threatened and reminded about how small the industry is, because the shoe can also be on the other foot and thanks to the wonderful world of social media, those who leave the game typically let others know to stay away from anything zos related. 😉14 -
Lags✭✭✭✭✭Warhawke_80 wrote: »Warhawke_80 wrote: »Warhawke_80 wrote: »Warhawke_80 wrote: »Warhawke_80 wrote: »What's ESOU?
What indeed...
Most people could give two figs about raiding in ESO, so naturally a channel like that wouldn't get much engagement in the first place...
I'm pretty sure things like DLC dungeons and Trials are going to be opened up to the average player soon anyway...I mean, why leave all that content deserted for a demographic that will never show up?
big true. they should honestly just put easy modes on everything. Make it like overland mobs, where you can kill everything naked. Casual players really dont have access to enough content in this game, and its really a darn shame.
Sarcasm aside...facts are facts and the facts are less than 1% of the population raids less than 4% participates in PVP....if you spend a ridiculous amount of money for content no one participates in... what then?
Oh I Know!!!!!
You make content for the audience you have.
That's interesting, given there are 5000 unique accounts that have posted trials clears to the ESO Clears bot. That means that PC has at least 500,000 players that have logged in since this summer (when the bot went live), mostly on NA (as the bot originated in NA servers - I don't know how much it is used in EU).
So?
Anyone with any actual knowledge understands that bots really aren't a great way to gather metrics....
True. It's almost certainly underestimating the number of people who engage with trials.
Point taken...
But we can see with our own eyes very few people are participating in Trials...and the sad truth of it is that ZoS isn't going to cater more to an audience that isn't there...and Trials are the single most expensive content that can be developed
What makes you think trials are the most expensive content? You need like, less than 10 voice actors (quest giver, friendly NPCs, and the bosses, if they even have any lines). You can reuse assets from existing content (Asylum having Clockwork City assets, Kynes Aegis having Western Skyrim assets, Sanity’s Edge has some new assets but also takes you through existing areas). You need to design the fights but so do you for all the worldbosses, delve bosses, wandering world bosses, etc. in overland. You have to design 4 pieces of gear, but you also design crafted and overland gear for overland…
People who do trials also seem to spend a lot on crown crates and are also hooked into buying new DLC if any part of it contains gear that would be useful or a new trial attached.
Not to mention the loss of overlanders that will happen with TES6.
/Shrug.... I dunno maybe because Rich said it was three or four times over the years.... I think if anyone he would know....
id love to see a post or something for that. It sounds insane that cloudrest cost them more to make then the entire summerset chapter. Unless im misunderstanding.
And again, im not sure why anyone would just believe you about people not doing trials. You can say you dont think a bot would be accurate but in my experience with bots and addons like this in mmos they are pretty accurate. needless to say, i disagree with you completely. And i also think its pretty crazy to even imagine they would stop catering to a big part of the game that has always been here.
I wonder if they decided to stop making new story content, would some of you have the same care free attitude that you do about the idea of them not adding in new trials? Or vet dungeons? Or removing cyrodiil? Or anything that you specifically dont like doing?
Ive really been trying to figure you guys out for the longest time but i cant. I cant understand why so many of you wouldnt want whats best for this game, or an mmo in general. For it to grow, succeed, bring back players, maybe get back to the numbers it had in the past or higher. Its so strange.8 -
Defending✭✭I scrolled briefly and realised unsurprisingly that they are plenty of spiteful and hateful comments from the community.
Nefas was someone who had started his entire career, dedication and invested time for ESO. My 7000 hours in-game is meagre compared to his efforts.
Instead of bashing him, has anyone given a thought that if there is no semblance of truth to what Nefas mentioned in the video, why will he decide to quit forever in such a fashion?
We are talking 4-5 years of effort here, consider that people might not even stay in a same job that long.10 -
dk_dunkirk✭✭✭✭✭I couldn't watch the 45 minute video on this, and any shorter ones on The YouTubes are hyperbolic rants, not summaries. So with that it in mind it's clear he's not happy playing this game and nothing ZoS can do will change that. It's time for him to move on. Thanks for contributions to the game Nefas, hope he enjoys wherever he ends up next.
What do you mean that there’s nothing ZOS can do about his happiness playing the game? Of course they can! That’s the whole point! Yes, ZOS can address the concerns he has. Yes, they can be nicer to their streamers by not gaslighting them. Yes, they can fix the bugs and roll back changes they had made so many high-level players quit since U35. The fact that they won’t, despite so many promises about fixing various things, is precisely the problem. They have all the power. They control the horizontal and the vertical. They have the resources and the tools and the people and the money. They can do — on NOT do — whatever they want. And it’s clear that what they want for the future is not what people like Nefas want. It’s not that they CAN’T. It’s that they CHOOSE NOT TO, and the player counts show how people feel about this direction. We get it. Lots of people still love the game. Great! Good for you! But it’s crass to be dismissive when others feel betrayed by ZOS after putting years of time and thousands of dollars into a lifestyle that gets changed out from under them.10 -
Ruthless✭✭✭I scrolled briefly and realised unsurprisingly that they are plenty of spiteful and hateful comments from the community.
Nefas was someone who had started his entire career, dedication and invested time for ESO. My 7000 hours in-game is meagre compared to his efforts.
Instead of bashing him, has anyone given a thought that if there is no semblance of truth to what Nefas mentioned in the video, why will he decide to quit forever in such a fashion?
We are talking 4-5 years of effort here, consider that people might not even stay in a same job that long.
why quit in such fashion ? for views of course, he is a content creator learning the ropes
dont get it twisted all he did is work for himself until he is big enough to venture on to new things
7 -
CatoUnchained✭✭✭✭✭CatoUnchained wrote: »Ultimately this is a division between the casual questers who don't need tutorials to learn how to mow down mobs that fall down dead if you dare look in their direction vs. the competitive end game players, who rely heavily on each other to understand and beat the games toughest content.[/i]
No, this is simply an unnecessary simplification and division. You can absolutely progress on your own or with people who do not tap into these types of sources. This was a major point I was trying to make. There is no direct dependency on this type of media for a player to master all content. Yes, people can benefit from it - but it is not required. At some point people started from 0, and it took them what? A a couple weeks on regular schedule or a few no-life mode nights per trial release?
This game isn't rocket science. You need people that signify that there lies value in the time commitment and people to play with that like doing the content. You don't really need to have the content to be chewed up and regurgitated for easy consumption.
Except this is the difference between the players that is causing all this conflict. The players who want ESO to be a strictly quest solo or with a companion game are demanding that all content should be easy enough for them to complete with very little to no effort. How many posts have been made asking for a story mode for trials? Or that PvP should be eliminated from the game?
Reading these posts makes it very obvious who the end game players are and who are only participating in the casual solo content.
ESO is a TES THEMED game. It's not a solo questing game. ESO is an MMO with PvP and trials that require grouping and a very time consuming learning curve to master. It's far more rewarding to git good as opposed to just mindlessly pushing buttons.9 -
CatoUnchained✭✭✭✭✭Warhawke_80 wrote: »Warhawke_80 wrote: »Warhawke_80 wrote: »Warhawke_80 wrote: »Warhawke_80 wrote: »What's ESOU?
What indeed...
Most people could give two figs about raiding in ESO, so naturally a channel like that wouldn't get much engagement in the first place...
I'm pretty sure things like DLC dungeons and Trials are going to be opened up to the average player soon anyway...I mean, why leave all that content deserted for a demographic that will never show up?
big true. they should honestly just put easy modes on everything. Make it like overland mobs, where you can kill everything naked. Casual players really dont have access to enough content in this game, and its really a darn shame.
Sarcasm aside...facts are facts and the facts are less than 1% of the population raids less than 4% participates in PVP....if you spend a ridiculous amount of money for content no one participates in... what then?
Oh I Know!!!!!
You make content for the audience you have.
That's interesting, given there are 5000 unique accounts that have posted trials clears to the ESO Clears bot. That means that PC has at least 500,000 players that have logged in since this summer (when the bot went live), mostly on NA (as the bot originated in NA servers - I don't know how much it is used in EU).
So?
Anyone with any actual knowledge understands that bots really aren't a great way to gather metrics....
True. It's almost certainly underestimating the number of people who engage with trials.
Point taken...
But we can see with our own eyes very few people are participating in Trials...and the sad truth of it is that ZoS isn't going to cater more to an audience that isn't there...and Trials are the single most expensive content that can be developed
What makes you think trials are the most expensive content? You need like, less than 10 voice actors (quest giver, friendly NPCs, and the bosses, if they even have any lines). You can reuse assets from existing content (Asylum having Clockwork City assets, Kynes Aegis having Western Skyrim assets, Sanity’s Edge has some new assets but also takes you through existing areas). You need to design the fights but so do you for all the worldbosses, delve bosses, wandering world bosses, etc. in overland. You have to design 4 pieces of gear, but you also design crafted and overland gear for overland…
People who do trials also seem to spend a lot on crown crates and are also hooked into buying new DLC if any part of it contains gear that would be useful or a new trial attached.
Not to mention the loss of overlanders that will happen with TES6.
/Shrug.... I dunno maybe because Rich said it was three or four times over the years.... I think if anyone he would know....
Ya, "They're working on it!"
6 -
Aldoss✭✭✭✭✭
✭Figured I wouldn't waste my time because I assumed this thread would get deleted pretty fast and didn't want to waste my time.
I'll give it to ZOS for allowing it to stay, but they've earned no faith from me that they won't still delete it once the higher ups are off their vacations next Monday.
I watched the video. I watched Nefas on occassion, but wasn't a part of his communities.
For me, it's not who Nefas is, but what he represents. In business terms, Nefas is (was) the gold standard of a brand's avatar: the brand evangelist. He was not only a customer, but someone who loved the game so much, he created systems, content, curriculum, communities, and websites that would help other people fall in love with the game the same way Nefas had.
Normally, brands would do their best to try to retain customers like that, and while I know that this is just one side of the story, I couldn't help but get this feeling of nodding my head and saying "yuuuuup" while listening to the things that Nefas said that ZOS did. It's a shame that I can easily see so many ZOS people being generally condescending or outright threatening to someone. There isn't enough social capital that they've earned over the years for me to give them any benefit of the doubt here.
Perhaps they'll make a post giving their side of the story, but it makes too much sense not to. It's the smart thing to do, but also, it's just ZOS' MO at this point. They don't communicate. When they do, it's generally poorly done or tactless, unless it's done by an employee who arguably has the least amount of control and authority (@ZOS_Kevin - the one person Nefas referred to as a generally great guy).
U35 was a changing tide, not just for me, but for a lot of players. I'm not sure what happened to the management structure that caused this tidal shift away from the essence of the game that originally drew me and my wife in, but it was plainly clear to us that supporting them financially was not in the cards.
[snip]
U44 is the second worst patch I can remember since U35 and @ZOS_MattFiror made no mention of these faults in his annual letter. That's unreal. Imagine if a car company unveiled a car, but the engine in everyone's car would randomly shut off during use. Then, not even two months later, the CEO makes an annual statement that says nothing about it.
I've never played a game with a development team that communicates more poorly than ZOS. I've never played a game that has as many bugs as ESO, yet still somehow generates AAA money. I've never played a game that has has bugs like "stuck in combat" that (quite literally) have never been fixed in nearly a decade. It's actually baffling. Bewildering.
My wife and I took our money away in U35, but we've recently taken our time away, too. We found a new game with a new world and have been having a blast so far. I don't really think ZOS can change from what they've become. One director change isn't enough. This is nearly a decade of behavior that's been reinforced into habit and I just really don't think the will power exists to steer them from it.
I'm sad to see ESO turn into this. We loved this game. Of course, I'll be excited to come back, but what's going to get us back isn't some trinket, class, or other intangible digital object. What we want is a development team that actually shows that they care about their game and engages with their players in common sense mediums to gather that feedback and then actually sets goals and roadmaps and allows their playerbase to hold them responsible for meeting those goals.
It's been 2 months since @SkaraMinoc's post on the BG livestream and we haven't even received a request from ZOS to fill out a survey asking us to volunteer our thoughts on the matter. We will receive zero information about what they're planning to do to resolve the myriad issues that U44 dumped on us until PTS day 1, which will, once again, start the 21 day countdown crunch time for the devs and combat team to do what they've proven time and time again to be wholeheartedly impossible and try to balance their game. It's really depressing to watch a AAA studio flounder like this while they boast about the $2B war chest that their player base has bestowed upon them.
To circle this back to the medium that most people will know Nefas from, it's currently still prime time on a Thursday night in North America. There are currently more people on Twitch watching TES4 Oblivion, a game nearly twice as old as ESO, than are currently watching ESO. The only similar game that ESO has more viewers than is GW2, but it's only by a couple hundred. WOW, FFXIV, BDO, AOC, NW, D2, T&L, Albion Online, and Lost Ark all have more viewers than this game, most by several thousand viewers. I get that not everyone here watches Twitch, but this is honestly a devastating blow to this game when, not even a few years ago, this game would easily be in the top 5 most watched MMOs on the platform.
[snip]
[edited for bashing]Edited by ZOS_Icy on January 3, 2025 2:25PM26 -
Lags✭✭✭✭✭I scrolled briefly and realised unsurprisingly that they are plenty of spiteful and hateful comments from the community.
Nefas was someone who had started his entire career, dedication and invested time for ESO. My 7000 hours in-game is meagre compared to his efforts.
Instead of bashing him, has anyone given a thought that if there is no semblance of truth to what Nefas mentioned in the video, why will he decide to quit forever in such a fashion?
We are talking 4-5 years of effort here, consider that people might not even stay in a same job that long.
why quit in such fashion ? for views of course, he is a content creator learning the ropes
dont get it twisted all he did is work for himself until he is big enough to venture on to new things
thats a wild statement to make about nefas specifically. maybe you could get away with that with some other creators but the amount of stuff this dude did, and was in the process of doing, is actually crazy. And i imagine he made this video to inform people about what had been happening behind the scenes for the last year, and to let the community know why he was leaving and why all his projects for eso are shutting down.11 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭CatoUnchained wrote: »ESO is a TES THEMED game. It's not a solo questing game. ESO is an MMO with PvP and trials that require grouping and a very time consuming learning curve to master. It's far more rewarding to git good as opposed to just mindlessly pushing buttons.
So everyone needs to "git gud" and engage in PvP, and trials, and group with others because that is what some others find far more rewarding?
Maybe some a lot of us enjoy "mindlessly pushing buttons", and spending time solo questing, and decorating our houses, etc.. But sometimes we also enjoy grouping with others for things that we want to participate in, because we want to, and because we find it rewarding, not because it's expected of us.
Players have the right to participate in whatever activities they enjoy, be it solo or group, and no one way is more right than the other.PCNA11 -
tomofhyrule✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »Players have the right to participate in whatever activities they enjoy, be it solo or group, and no one way is more right than the other.
...which also implies that players who are interested in the more endgame group-y stuff should get some love from the devs as well.
And that's the problem - they feel like they haven't been.21
This discussion has been closed.