RIP ESOU

PapaTankers · January 2

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

wilykcat wrote: »

What's ESOU?

What indeed...

Most people could give two figs about raiding in ESO, so naturally a channel like that wouldn't get much engagement in the first place...

I'm pretty sure things like DLC dungeons and Trials are going to be opened up to the average player soon anyway...I mean, why leave all that content deserted for a demographic that will never show up?

DLC dungeons and trials have always been open for average players.
The so called "average players" you talk about are the people who are not willing to learn the game or its mechanics.

sarahthes · January 2

PapaTankers wrote: »

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

wilykcat wrote: »

What's ESOU?

What indeed...

Most people could give two figs about raiding in ESO, so naturally a channel like that wouldn't get much engagement in the first place...

I'm pretty sure things like DLC dungeons and Trials are going to be opened up to the average player soon anyway...I mean, why leave all that content deserted for a demographic that will never show up?

DLC dungeons and trials have always been open for average players.
The so called "average players" you talk about are the people who are not willing to learn the game or its mechanics.

It sort of makes me wonder how you could do a story mode for Lucent tbh. You'd actually need a party of at least 7 NPCs just to make the boss work, and 4-5 to make the last boss work (since you can't even move unless there's at least 4 people in the dome).

Charon_on_Vacation · January 2

Nefas life after ESO will be much better.
I'd recommend everyone that is unhappy with the way this game is developed to leave as well.
it won't change for the better.
don't spend your time on it in hopes things will improve.
look for new games or other activities that make you happy.
do not waste your time here.

PapaTankers · January 2

sarahthes wrote: »

PapaTankers wrote: »

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

wilykcat wrote: »

What's ESOU?

What indeed...

Most people could give two figs about raiding in ESO, so naturally a channel like that wouldn't get much engagement in the first place...

I'm pretty sure things like DLC dungeons and Trials are going to be opened up to the average player soon anyway...I mean, why leave all that content deserted for a demographic that will never show up?

DLC dungeons and trials have always been open for average players.
The so called "average players" you talk about are the people who are not willing to learn the game or its mechanics.

It sort of makes me wonder how you could do a story mode for Lucent tbh. You'd actually need a party of at least 7 NPCs just to make the boss work, and 4-5 to make the last boss work (since you can't even move unless there's at least 4 people in the dome).

With 11 other people that are interested in doing story mode for LC.
Guilds and group finder works wonders. People just sometimes seem to forget ESO is a MMO.
In EU there is even a guild called "story mode" that runs story modes of dungeons and trials.

Soarora · January 2

Erickson9610 wrote: »

I'm sure plenty of the people in this thread would make for great ESO content creators. They all seem very passionate about the game, regardless of which stance on the matter they take. Why don't we see this community here doing what those people who are leaving did?

It's not really easy to just go be a content creator. People are going to go to the top result when they look something up, which is almost always Xynode or Alcast. If its not either, then its probably the forums... so...

PapaTankers wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

PapaTankers wrote: »

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

wilykcat wrote: »

What's ESOU?

What indeed...

Most people could give two figs about raiding in ESO, so naturally a channel like that wouldn't get much engagement in the first place...

I'm pretty sure things like DLC dungeons and Trials are going to be opened up to the average player soon anyway...I mean, why leave all that content deserted for a demographic that will never show up?

DLC dungeons and trials have always been open for average players.
The so called "average players" you talk about are the people who are not willing to learn the game or its mechanics.

It sort of makes me wonder how you could do a story mode for Lucent tbh. You'd actually need a party of at least 7 NPCs just to make the boss work, and 4-5 to make the last boss work (since you can't even move unless there's at least 4 people in the dome).

With 11 other people that are interested in doing story mode for LC.
Guilds and group finder works wonders. People just sometimes seem to forget ESO is a MMO.
In EU there is even a guild called "story mode" that runs story modes of dungeons and trials.

I feel like people who want story modes don't realize how little story is in group content. They're pretty self-contained and straightforward, except for a few like Bedlam Veil. The story IS doing the dungeon/trial. Usually, you're a group of Undaunted going in to solve some problem that you can make out through the NPCs (and bosses) talking. The only time you can even talk to the NPCs one-on-one is at the beginning and the end, and even for a trial you can walk right in by yourself and get the quest before joining a group.

Erickson9610 · January 2

Soarora wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

I'm sure plenty of the people in this thread would make for great ESO content creators. They all seem very passionate about the game, regardless of which stance on the matter they take. Why don't we see this community here doing what those people who are leaving did?

It's not really easy to just go be a content creator. People are going to go to the top result when they look something up, which is almost always Xynode or Alcast. If its not either, then its probably the forums... so...

I don't doubt that it takes effort to create comprehensive guides and engaging content for other people to consume. Many people on the forums do that already, without necessarily having the same following.

It sucks that the famous people have left, but we as a community ought to keep sharing our knowledge to help one another out, even if we don't use platforms like YouTube or Twitch to do so.

Marto · January 2

Valion wrote: »

The factual gap between Zenimax and the ESO community does not make things easier.

I'd love to see mutual, sure, bold steps of convergence at this point.
Transparency and the end to censorship on one hand, and constructivity and solidarity on the other.
Since yes, the is a workers' struggle still unsolved as far a as I know. Same boat, mates!
Same boat.

It's because of content creators like Nefas that ZOS has become a lot less transparent, and will likely continue to do so.

I remember and miss the days when ZOS devs participated in the forums, directly receiving feedback and letting us know about their design process. Or things like Rich Lambert's streams that really shed a lot of light on the ongoing issues ESO has, and what's being done to fix them.

But the devs can't do that anymore because overly negative outrage merchants like Nefas and others will read every single statement they say in the most disingenuous and inflammatory way possible.

We're getting a lot of sanitized and opaque PR because the ESO community has become extremely hostile. And toxic personalities like Nefas being raised as "pillars of the community" are to blame.

PapaTankers · January 2

.

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

I'm sure plenty of the people in this thread would make for great ESO content creators. They all seem very passionate about the game, regardless of which stance on the matter they take. Why don't we see this community here doing what those people who are leaving did?

It's not really easy to just go be a content creator. People are going to go to the top result when they look something up, which is almost always Xynode or Alcast. If its not either, then its probably the forums... so...

I don't doubt that it takes effort to create comprehensive guides and engaging content for other people to consume. Many people on the forums do that already, without necessarily having the same following.

It sucks that the famous people have left, but we as a community ought to keep sharing our knowledge to help one another out, even if we don't use platforms like YouTube or Twitch to do so.

Creating a script. Editing. Engaging with your community.
You greatly underestimate the time, effort and commitment it takes.

If it was that easy, we wouldn't have only 4-5 websites that the community relies on for their information.

carlos424 · January 2

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

wilykcat wrote: »

What's ESOU?

What indeed...

Most people could give two figs about raiding in ESO, so naturally a channel like that wouldn't get much engagement in the first place...

I'm pretty sure things like DLC dungeons and Trials are going to be opened up to the average player soon anyway...I mean, why leave all that content deserted for a demographic that will never show up?

DLC dungeons, trials, arenas, EVERYTHING, is open to anyone already, as long as you own it! If you were an ESOU member you would know that. Lol. But seriously, the fact that you think this content is locked to the “average player” speaks volumes for how well (or not) the game communicates/informs players.

PapaTankers · January 2

Marto wrote: »

Valion wrote: »

The factual gap between Zenimax and the ESO community does not make things easier.

I'd love to see mutual, sure, bold steps of convergence at this point.
Transparency and the end to censorship on one hand, and constructivity and solidarity on the other.
Since yes, the is a workers' struggle still unsolved as far a as I know. Same boat, mates!
Same boat.

It's because of content creators like Nefas that ZOS has become a lot less transparent, and will likely continue to do so.

I remember and miss the days when ZOS devs participated in the forums, directly receiving feedback and letting us know about their design process. Or things like Rich Lambert's streams that really shed a lot of light on the ongoing issues ESO has, and what's being done to fix them.

But the devs can't do that anymore because overly negative outrage merchants like Nefas and others will read every single statement they say in the most disingenuous and inflammatory way possible.

We're getting a lot of sanitized and opaque PR because the ESO community has become extremely hostile. And toxoc personalities like Nefas being raised as "pillars of the community" are to blame.

And then there are people that perceive every bit of negative or constructive feedback as toxic or hostile. It's hard to say positive things about updates that negatively effect big parts of the playerbase.
Should they just lie and smile?

ZOS communication has always been opaque and washed up. They cherry pick what they reply to. Silence parts of the community during their streams by blacklisting words that they don't wanna talk about.

It's funny to me you bring nefas as an example to why the communication is the way it is. I blame all the toxic casuals who take any criticism towards the game or the studio as a personal attack.
Thank god it's mostly contained to these forums.

Erickson9610 · January 2

PapaTankers wrote: »

.

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

I'm sure plenty of the people in this thread would make for great ESO content creators. They all seem very passionate about the game, regardless of which stance on the matter they take. Why don't we see this community here doing what those people who are leaving did?

It's not really easy to just go be a content creator. People are going to go to the top result when they look something up, which is almost always Xynode or Alcast. If its not either, then its probably the forums... so...

I don't doubt that it takes effort to create comprehensive guides and engaging content for other people to consume. Many people on the forums do that already, without necessarily having the same following.

It sucks that the famous people have left, but we as a community ought to keep sharing our knowledge to help one another out, even if we don't use platforms like YouTube or Twitch to do so.

Creating a script. Editing. Engaging with your community.
You greatly underestimate the time, effort and commitment it takes.

If it was that easy, we wouldn't have only 4-5 websites that the community relies on for their information.

Why have more than 4-5 websites if they're each sufficient for most purposes? Who visits more than 5 websites for the same information?

Yes, I must be underestimating the effort it truly takes. I have no firsthand experience running a community like that. I still assert that because there are people here in this very thread who care enough about the game to comment on the loss of a content creator, that they should at least try to fill in the holes of the creators who came before them.

I know nobody's going to quit their job to become an ESO content creator, but simply complaining about the situation doesn't fix anything — and simply asking ZOS to change probably won't fix anything, either. I personally help players with build advice that I've learned from actually playing the game, and I believe this community should do more of that, even if they don't have a following.

PapaTankers · January 2

Erickson9610 wrote: »

PapaTankers wrote: »

.

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

I'm sure plenty of the people in this thread would make for great ESO content creators. They all seem very passionate about the game, regardless of which stance on the matter they take. Why don't we see this community here doing what those people who are leaving did?

It's not really easy to just go be a content creator. People are going to go to the top result when they look something up, which is almost always Xynode or Alcast. If its not either, then its probably the forums... so...

I don't doubt that it takes effort to create comprehensive guides and engaging content for other people to consume. Many people on the forums do that already, without necessarily having the same following.

It sucks that the famous people have left, but we as a community ought to keep sharing our knowledge to help one another out, even if we don't use platforms like YouTube or Twitch to do so.

Creating a script. Editing. Engaging with your community.
You greatly underestimate the time, effort and commitment it takes.

If it was that easy, we wouldn't have only 4-5 websites that the community relies on for their information.

Why have more than 4-5 websites if they're each sufficient for most purposes? Who visits more than 5 websites for the same information?

Yes, I must be underestimating the effort it truly takes. I have no firsthand experience running a community like that. I still assert that because there are people here in this very thread who care enough about the game to comment on the loss of a content creator, that they should at least try to fill in the holes of the creators who came before them.

I know nobody's going to quit their job to become an ESO content creator, but simply complaining about the situation doesn't fix anything — and simply asking ZOS to change probably won't fix anything, either. I personally help players with build advice that I've learned from actually playing the game, and I believe this community should do more of that, even if they don't have a following.

You would want to have more websites to avoid situation like we have right now with ESO-U leaving.
That's one of those 4-5 websites.

Edit to add:
It's great that you are helping other players with advice and I hope you and others continue to do so. I know many others do aswell.
Sadly the scale of players it reaches is very small and likely to be drowned out when posted on forums.
Content creators help deliver the information to bigger masses.

Estin · January 2

Soarora wrote: »

I feel like people who want story modes don't realize how little story is in group content. They're pretty self-contained and straightforward, except for a few like Bedlam Veil. The story IS doing the dungeon/trial. Usually, you're a group of Undaunted going in to solve some problem that you can make out through the NPCs (and bosses) talking. The only time you can even talk to the NPCs one-on-one is at the beginning and the end, and even for a trial you can walk right in by yourself and get the quest before joining a group.

On one hand, I can see people wanting to do a dungeon solo without having to worry about group mechanics and a need for a tank + healer while also wanting to exhausting all NPC dialogue and cutscenes. I can see that as a valid reason for one.

On the other hand, considering what is mostly posted on the subreddit these days, I doubt most people who call for a story mode have stepped foot in a DLC dungeon and don't realize that DLC dungeon quests are so much more streamlined than the dialogue heavy base game dungeon quests they seem to always only do.

Erickson9610 · January 2

PapaTankers wrote: »

They cherry pick what they reply to.

The community does this as well.

carlos424 · January 2

Lags wrote: »

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

wilykcat wrote: »

What's ESOU?

What indeed...

Most people could give two figs about raiding in ESO, so naturally a channel like that wouldn't get much engagement in the first place...

I'm pretty sure things like DLC dungeons and Trials are going to be opened up to the average player soon anyway...I mean, why leave all that content deserted for a demographic that will never show up?

big true. they should honestly just put easy modes on everything. Make it like overland mobs, where you can kill everything naked. Casual players really dont have access to enough content in this game, and its really a darn shame.

Normal dungeons, trials and arenas are designed for casual players to complete. In fact, a few years ago some rewards (arena weapons) were also made accessible to everyone. IMO this was the beginning of the decline. While it made everything accessible to everyone, it also dumbed down the game, to a point where no one ever has to get very good in order to complete all the content and receive basically the same rewards.

Nilandia · January 2

Soarora wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

I'm sure plenty of the people in this thread would make for great ESO content creators. They all seem very passionate about the game, regardless of which stance on the matter they take. Why don't we see this community here doing what those people who are leaving did?

It's not really easy to just go be a content creator. People are going to go to the top result when they look something up, which is almost always Xynode or Alcast. If its not either, then its probably the forums... so...

I know this from first-hand experience.

Back when Dreadsail Reef was on the PTS, I got a group of friends to meet once a week and try to figure it out. I kept notes on what we discovered so we wouldn't keep rehashing the same stuff every week. I also talked to other players who were on the PTS to discuss certain mechanics and make sure I understood them correctly.

Eventually, I realized that other people might be interested in my notes, so I refined the information into a formal guide to the trial. Admittedly, I got pretty lost in the sauce and the guide got quite in depth.

When the guide was finished, I posted it on several raiding Discords and posted it here on the boards. This was the first content I'd ever created for ESO, so I had literally no audience whatsoever. Needless to say, the guide got very little attention.

Not long after, I saw that Nefas was going to give a lecture on Dreadsail Reef on the ESOU Discord. I messaged him privately to share my guide in hopes that it would help the lecture. I don't think I'd ever spoken to him before. Not only did he say the guide was "good stuff," but he heavily featured it in his lecture, shared the link, and brought me on to create more guides for ESOU.

Nefas ensured that my work would be seen by far more people than I could have hoped for.

I've since created guides for Sanity's Edge and Aetherian Archive, both published on ESOU's website. Other guides were in the works, but the sheer amount of work that goes into them became too much. Each of them easily requires at least 100-200 hours of work, if not much more. I just didn't have it in me anymore.

I don't know if I'll ever make another guide, but even so, it was immensely gratifying to hear from people that the ones I did write were helpful in learning the trials. I'm certain that none of that would have been possible without Nefas, and for that I will always be grateful.

PapaTankers · January 2

Erickson9610 wrote: »

PapaTankers wrote: »

They cherry pick what they reply to.

The community does this as well.

Yes, but nobody is really asking for community to communicate better.
Zenimax are the ones delivering the product not us.

Marto · January 2

PapaTankers wrote: »

And then there are people that perceive every bit of negative or constructive feedback as toxic or hostile. It's hard to say positive things about updates that negatively effect big parts of the playerbase.
Should they just lie and smile?

ZOS communication has always been opaque and washed up. They cherry pick what they reply to. Silence parts of the community during their streams by blacklisting words that they don't wanna talk about.

It's funny to me you bring nefas as an example to why the communication is the way it is. I blame all the toxic casuals who take any criticism towards the game or the studio as a personal attack.
Thank god it's mostly contained to these forums.

There's criticism, and then there's making videos ridiculing the combat designer for slotting puncturing sweeps when he needed more self-healing. Does that sound like useful feedback?

There's criticism, and then there's click-bait thumbnails and topics chosen just to stir people up. Look at Nefas's non-ESO videos, and he's being nothing but an outrage merchant. Would you like to be interviewed by someone who's going to take your words out of context like that?

There's criticism, and then there's disregarding the concerns and distaste developers have for datamining and leaks. Nefas starts that portion of his video complaining about how much money and views he loses from giving disclaimers about leaks, and how they shouldn't be treated as fact. Does that sound like someone who fosters a good relationship with developers?

Or complaining about all the views he lost when he was asked to remove a VOD because someone didn't want their face recorded. Or calling other content creators losers and morons because they didn't praise him for going "above and beyond" by removing the VOD after making a big fuss about it. Does that sound like someone who's a pillar of the community?

Alinhbo_Tyaka · January 2

Grega wrote: »

Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »

Grega wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Grega wrote: »

I’m not a medical professional but I’m pretty sure shingles are caused by dormant small pox virus and not everything that was happening in relation to eso.

Shingles are caused by the chicken pox virus. After we have chicken pox the virus lies dormant in the nerve cells near the spine and can become active at any time.

Someone that has never had chicken pox can actually catch it from someone that has shingles because it's the same virus.

The more you know . Thanks!

We agree then, it was not caused by ESO. 🤷‍♂️🙃

Not necessarily. Current knowledge does not have a definitive set of risk factors nor say why some people contract the Shingles while others do not. However there are studies that indicate that stress is one of the risk factors that can activate a Shingle's outbreak due to the effect of stress on the immune system. So it is plausible that stress was one of the factors triggering Nefas' case of the Shingles.

If that’s the case, then my original point stands. Nefas has HATED eso for at least 12 months, and was disinterested about anything regarding it, but continued to pump out stuff and maintenance mode played as a CHOICE (as he said “for the community” but also as he said “ppl gotta eat” - without alternative it is money …).

It’s a choice. He made a choice. He knew what it meant.

I’ve worked jobs I hated before. Was around ppl I hated. Reasons irrelevant, it was a choice. And when there were side effect - I didn’t turn around and blame people I hated. - that is what he is doing now. He’s showing maturity level of a 5 year old and not taking actual responsibility for his OWN actions.

Look I don't care for Nefas personally. His personality, at least as presented online, is one that I find grating but I have seen much of what he was saying about his interactions with ZOS and the Stream Team occur with other streamers and content providers. He is not an isolated case and just because I don't care for the way he presents himself doesn't mean he doesn't have some valid points. In fact many of the things he brings up are the same reasons I've stopped playing the game other than logging in for the daily rewards and I'm doing that less and less everyday.

PapaTankers · January 2

Marto wrote: »

PapaTankers wrote: »

And then there are people that perceive every bit of negative or constructive feedback as toxic or hostile. It's hard to say positive things about updates that negatively effect big parts of the playerbase.
Should they just lie and smile?

ZOS communication has always been opaque and washed up. They cherry pick what they reply to. Silence parts of the community during their streams by blacklisting words that they don't wanna talk about.

It's funny to me you bring nefas as an example to why the communication is the way it is. I blame all the toxic casuals who take any criticism towards the game or the studio as a personal attack.
Thank god it's mostly contained to these forums.

There's criticism, and then there's making videos ridiculing the combat designer for slotting puncturing sweeps when he needed more self-healing. Does that sound like useful feedback?

There's criticism, and then there's click-bait thumbnails and topics chosen just to stir people up. Look at Nefas's non-ESO videos, and he's being nothing but an outrage merchant. Would you like to be interviewed by someone who's going to take your words out of context like that?

There's criticism, and then there's disregarding the concerns and distaste developers have for datamining and leaks. Nefas starts that portion of his video complaining about how much money and views he loses from giving disclaimers about leaks, and how they shouldn't be treated as fact. Does that sound like someone who fosters a good relationship with developers?

Or complaining about all the views he lost when he was asked to remove a VOD because someone didn't want their face recorded. Or calling other content creators losers and morons because they didn't praise him for going "above and beyond" by removing the VOD after making a big fuss about it. Does that sound like someone who's a pillar of the community?

Not familiar with Nefas non eso videos so I wont comment on that.
I am fairly familiar with his ESO content however.

Also starting to get more familiar with you over dramatization on things.

By lead combat designer "ridicule" I assume that you are refering to recent battlegrounds live stream and followup on that. He extensively also called into question why people even care so much deeply about that. Called out the weirdos that were supposedly sending dev death threaths. A light hearted joke about a lead combat designer not understanding his own game mechanics can hardly be called a ridicule.

Please give me a timestamp of him calling other creators morons for quote "not praising him for going above and beyond". Only thing I recall him saying about other content creators in this video were when he acknowledged
that some of them are in it for the bag and some content creators actually are bootlickers.

And why wouldn't he be upset about lost views and revenue? It's his source of income.
He also provided context to whole datamine. Datamine was public for WEEKS and was already covered by other content creators.

And to answer your question.
I do think this sounds like someone who is pillar of the community. Look at the community and numbers he has built and show me someone who matches his contribution.

AzuraFan · January 2

Estin wrote: »

On the other hand, considering what is mostly posted on the subreddit these days, I doubt most people who call for a story mode have stepped foot in a DLC dungeon and don't realize that DLC dungeon quests are so much more streamlined than the dialogue heavy base game dungeon quests they seem to always only do.

I would like a story mode, and I've done all the DLC dungeons. Yes, the DLC quests are streamlined. You only need to accept the quest in the beginning and turn it in at the end. BUT there's a lot of optional dialogue along the way that you can also listen to. And the quest giver and receiver also have optional dialogue.

When doing the DLC dungeons with a pug, you can't listen to the dialogue at all, either optional or mandatory. Most of the time, all you can do is click-click-click to get to the part where you get the quest, as the rest of the group is running away into the dungeon already. At the end, you click-click-click before you're the only one left and the game is kicking you from the instance.

I did Graven Deep with my guild in story mode and it took over an hour. We did the secret bosses, listened to every line of dialogue (both about the quest and all the optional dialogue the main NPC had along the way), opened both chests, and poked into every corner. You can't do that with a pug.

So yes, even for DLC dungeons, a story mode would be great.

CrazyKitty · January 2

Erickson9610 wrote: »

I'm sure plenty of the people in this thread would make for great ESO content creators. They all seem very passionate about the game, regardless of which stance on the matter they take. Why don't we see this community here doing what those people who are leaving did?

I'm sure the vast majority of the people in this thread haven't the slightest idea the equipment, time and technical skills it takes to be a streamer much less an actual content creator. They not only don't have the electronic equipment needed, they don't have the knowledge of how to use it or the intimate knowledge of the game itself that it takes to do the job.

If you think it's so easy, why aren't you a content creator?

Erickson9610 · January 2

CrazyKitty wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

I'm sure plenty of the people in this thread would make for great ESO content creators. They all seem very passionate about the game, regardless of which stance on the matter they take. Why don't we see this community here doing what those people who are leaving did?

I'm sure the vast majority of the people in this thread haven't the slightest idea the equipment, time and technical skills it takes to be a streamer much less an actual content creator. They not only don't have the electronic equipment needed, they don't have the knowledge of how to use it or the intimate knowledge of the game itself that it takes to do the job.

If you think it's so easy, why aren't you a content creator?

I don't think it's easy. I just think this community should be more proactive. If I made ESO content, I wouldn't try to be a "personality" like those other people are.

CrazyKitty · January 2

Marto wrote: »

Valion wrote: »

The factual gap between Zenimax and the ESO community does not make things easier.

I'd love to see mutual, sure, bold steps of convergence at this point.
Transparency and the end to censorship on one hand, and constructivity and solidarity on the other.
Since yes, the is a workers' struggle still unsolved as far a as I know. Same boat, mates!
Same boat.

It's because of content creators like Nefas that ZOS has become a lot less transparent, and will likely continue to do so.

I remember and miss the days when ZOS devs participated in the forums, directly receiving feedback and letting us know about their design process. Or things like Rich Lambert's streams that really shed a lot of light on the ongoing issues ESO has, and what's being done to fix them.

But the devs can't do that anymore because overly negative outrage merchants like Nefas and others will read every single statement they say in the most disingenuous and inflammatory way possible.

We're getting a lot of sanitized and opaque PR because the ESO community has become extremely hostile. And toxic personalities like Nefas being raised as "pillars of the community" are to blame.

Nefas was and will always be a pillar of the ESO community, like it or not. His work speaks for itself and everyone here has benefited from it whether they realize it or not, no more so than ZOS themselves.

Grega · January 2

CrazyKitty wrote: »

Marto wrote: »

Valion wrote: »

The factual gap between Zenimax and the ESO community does not make things easier.

I'd love to see mutual, sure, bold steps of convergence at this point.
Transparency and the end to censorship on one hand, and constructivity and solidarity on the other.
Since yes, the is a workers' struggle still unsolved as far a as I know. Same boat, mates!
Same boat.

It's because of content creators like Nefas that ZOS has become a lot less transparent, and will likely continue to do so.

I remember and miss the days when ZOS devs participated in the forums, directly receiving feedback and letting us know about their design process. Or things like Rich Lambert's streams that really shed a lot of light on the ongoing issues ESO has, and what's being done to fix them.

But the devs can't do that anymore because overly negative outrage merchants like Nefas and others will read every single statement they say in the most disingenuous and inflammatory way possible.

We're getting a lot of sanitized and opaque PR because the ESO community has become extremely hostile. And toxic personalities like Nefas being raised as "pillars of the community" are to blame.

Nefas was and will always be a pillar of the ESO community, like it or not. His work speaks for itself and everyone here has benefited from it whether they realize it or not, no more so than ZOS themselves.

I must be living in an alternate reality 🤷‍♂️🙃

spartaxoxo · January 2

carlos424 wrote: »

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

wilykcat wrote: »

What's ESOU?

What indeed...

Most people could give two figs about raiding in ESO, so naturally a channel like that wouldn't get much engagement in the first place...

I'm pretty sure things like DLC dungeons and Trials are going to be opened up to the average player soon anyway...I mean, why leave all that content deserted for a demographic that will never show up?

DLC dungeons, trials, arenas, EVERYTHING, is open to anyone already, as long as you own it! If you were an ESOU member you would know that. Lol. But seriously, the fact that you think this content is locked to the “average player” speaks volumes for how well (or not) the game communicates/informs players.

I think a lot of people who are perfectly capable of completing these things self-select themselves out because of all the people who paint themselves as the typical average user making it out to be way harder than it is.

I've had so many people over the years be like "OMG this is my first x! Thanks for helping me, this was actually a lot of fun." And they'll have a like 1500 cp. And it'll be like normal AA.

They thought that they needed way more things than they did to participate in normal trials and dlc dungeons.

Soarora · January 2

spartaxoxo wrote: »

carlos424 wrote: »

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

wilykcat wrote: »

What's ESOU?

What indeed...

Most people could give two figs about raiding in ESO, so naturally a channel like that wouldn't get much engagement in the first place...

I'm pretty sure things like DLC dungeons and Trials are going to be opened up to the average player soon anyway...I mean, why leave all that content deserted for a demographic that will never show up?

DLC dungeons, trials, arenas, EVERYTHING, is open to anyone already, as long as you own it! If you were an ESOU member you would know that. Lol. But seriously, the fact that you think this content is locked to the “average player” speaks volumes for how well (or not) the game communicates/informs players.

I think a lot of people who are perfectly capable of completing these things self-select themselves out because of all the people who paint themselves as the typical average user making it out to be way harder than it is.

I've had so many people over the years be like "OMG this is my first x! Thanks for helping me, this was actually a lot of fun." And they'll have a like 1500 cp. And it'll be like normal AA.

They thought that they needed way more things than they did to participate in normal trials and dlc dungeons.

To be honest, even I've overestimated how hard trials are. I already had a trial trifecta as healer, but I wouldn't start tanking trials until I'd done multiple dungeon trifectas as a tank. I don't think I would've even gotten into hard content if it weren't for the rewards (I wanted dro'm-athra skin and worm wizard for RP reasons), but those kinds of rewards (skins for trials on vet, skins/personalities for dungeon challengers) have gone away, and if ZOS adds incentives again, then we'd see an explosion on the forums about how it's unfair and vitriol towards people who do dungeons and trials as their regular content. If we want the game to get better, we need to stop fighting each other too.

Vaqual · January 2

CrazyKitty wrote: »

. If you think it's so easy, why aren't you a content creator?

Not speaking on the difficulty of the "job" but here are some reasons:

1. Being a public figure is not for everyone
2. Investments for technical setup, as mentioned
3. Working for a niche audience that is mostly not going to provide direct financial support
4. Any "content" can be invalidated due to game changes at any time - the "content" essentially depends on the game developers to a large degree
5. There is very little objective value in the "product" you provide to the audience: The entire knowledge is accessible in game, by playing the game, by talking to others or by consulting other media (e.g. competing creators, official sources). It is entirely optional and therefore the value of the "content" depends strictly on the consumer (entertainment & information derived).
6. You basically act as advertiser for the game. There is true value in that, as long as you want to promote the game. This isn't really a negative point, but it can be a thankless relationship.

Many opinions here are dismissive of people who don't value the "content" from these creators and immediately associate the respective posters with a low understanding of the game. This does not make the arguments more compelling. This type of "content" just isn't useful to everyone and many people just don't decide to worship figures like Nefas simply because others celebrate them. I see their value as free PR-worker for the game, but otherwise there is just no connection for me to this type of media or this player. I haven't watched that video yet, maybe I will if I tomorrow. This is also not meant to absolve ZOS of anything that is said in the video.

This thread seems however very dramatic for a video game related database. Criticise the game and devs if you wish for change, "vote with your wallet" if you think that is what it takes. If you fear for the well being of the game and think people need more of this type of media or help, do it yourself or support someone who works towards this. Not needing or wanting something like ESOU doesn't disqualify anyone as a person.

Lags · January 2

carlos424 wrote: »

Lags wrote: »

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

wilykcat wrote: »

What's ESOU?

What indeed...

Most people could give two figs about raiding in ESO, so naturally a channel like that wouldn't get much engagement in the first place...

I'm pretty sure things like DLC dungeons and Trials are going to be opened up to the average player soon anyway...I mean, why leave all that content deserted for a demographic that will never show up?

big true. they should honestly just put easy modes on everything. Make it like overland mobs, where you can kill everything naked. Casual players really dont have access to enough content in this game, and its really a darn shame.

Normal dungeons, trials and arenas are designed for casual players to complete. In fact, a few years ago some rewards (arena weapons) were also made accessible to everyone. IMO this was the beginning of the decline. While it made everything accessible to everyone, it also dumbed down the game, to a point where no one ever has to get very good in order to complete all the content and receive basically the same rewards.

-_- i was being sarcastic. Of course i dont actually believe any of that. And what you have said is 100% correct. The decline began with their hard focus on a revolving door of super casual players. Dumbing down the game for everyone else, making it feel less rewarding, which was shocking because the games reward system is already terrible as it is.

What these type of players dont realize is that this is an mmorpg. It started as an mmorpg with a pretty decent focus on large scale pvp in cyrodiil. And over time they have shifted their focus. If now, finally, they want to back track a bit then great, but for mannnnnyyyy players it will be way too late.

But with this being an mmo it needs to actually feel like an mmo. Zos has been taking that away trying to pander to solo players/super casuals. You cant have an mmo like this. Skyrim online will not survive. The game is already declining, and it started when they began these terrible changes of dumbing things down and making things more solo/casual friendly.

And the sad thing is these type of players will never understand. When the game shuts down one day, if its because its failing, they will blame vet players, or pvpers, or just say it was too old, or make some excuse. When in reality an mmorpg is an eco system of players. You need new players coming in that want to aspire to do things, to break off into different parts of the game. Questing, raiding, achievement hunting, collecting, pvp, crafting, trading, community stuff, etc. And you need vet players to stick around and help new people get there, or even be a goal for these people to reach. For example, there were plenty of players back in 2016 i wanted to be able to compete with in pvp. And i got there, mimicked them, competed against them, played with them, beat them, and learned to do things my own way. nearly all of those players are gone now, sadly.

Zos needs to do so much to make this game great. But the biggest things are improving rewards across the board, improving performance, and repairing this community by making this game feel like an mmo again. And im not sure they are willing to do what is needed to get there. Every community in this game has been impacted by bad rewards, bad changes, or dumbing things down. Trading, achievement hunting, collecting, pvp, people who run vet trials or dungeons.

The only people who seem to be getting what they want are the super casual/solo pve players. so I will never understand how they still complain.

Lags · January 2

colossalvoids wrote: »

Lags wrote: »

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

Lags wrote: »

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

wilykcat wrote: »

What's ESOU?

What indeed...

Most people could give two figs about raiding in ESO, so naturally a channel like that wouldn't get much engagement in the first place...

I'm pretty sure things like DLC dungeons and Trials are going to be opened up to the average player soon anyway...I mean, why leave all that content deserted for a demographic that will never show up?

big true. they should honestly just put easy modes on everything. Make it like overland mobs, where you can kill everything naked. Casual players really dont have access to enough content in this game, and its really a darn shame.

Sarcasm aside...facts are facts and the facts are less than 1% of the population raids less than 4% participates in PVP....if you spend a ridiculous amount of money for content no one participates in... what then?

Oh I Know!!!!!
You make content for the audience you have.

That's interesting, given there are 5000 unique accounts that have posted trials clears to the ESO Clears bot. That means that PC has at least 500,000 players that have logged in since this summer (when the bot went live), mostly on NA (as the bot originated in NA servers - I don't know how much it is used in EU).

Bots really aren't a great way to gather metrics....

ya, better to just throw random numbers out there like 1% and 4%. I cant with you guys. Where did you even come up with that?

Just forum things.

Anyways it's not surprising most people are indeed don't care about anything that do not directly affects them without consideration of a broader community or overall health of the game. In-game isn't that different from irl at that. If that's not in my yard that's not my issue... no matter nearby houses are already on fire. It's fine.

yes you are certainly correct here, but unfortunately I see this type of behavior coming from one specific part of the community far more often than anywhere else. Its like a sense of entitlement, especially like the comment i was responding to with my previous one. Its honestly shocking how entitled it comes off as.

Im sure it happens but its rare i see long time players, who take this game a bit more serious than questing, say these type of things. Like raiders or pvpers saying "lets make everything in the game like a raid so we can have it the way we want it". Its just silly. an mmo should have places for all kinds of players, and eso always did that very well. Before companions, before dumbing combat down, before dumbing everything down, casual players had so much of this game. Every chapter, every patch. And no one i have seen has tried to take that away from them.

People may think making overland content more difficult is trying to take it away, but its not. There were plenty of causal players that enjoyed this game before one tamriel. And there is a balance to be found here. But when brand new players with barely an CP have to unequip most of their gear, and remove all of their CP, to feel somewhat engaged by the overland content, i think we may have a problem.