RIP ESOU

Lags · January 1

Jaimeh wrote: »

BetweenMidgets wrote: »

what a bad look for that lady at the end calling out nefas.

To be fair, in the beginning she does say in a very polite and coaxing manner with a smile, 'we would appreciate no live streaming', and when Nefas disregards it and tries to go around it, while she is clearly repeating that she is being serious, and he ignores it, she then has to ask him to stop for the event to proceed. There's nothing humiliating about this, it might be embarrassing, but he was in the wrong (and he wasn't even sheepish or graceful about it afterwards). It's like you are walking in a park with a group and you step on the grass when you are told you're not supposed to, and then someone calls you out, so you have to step off and people might stare. It's just embarrassing but that was your mistake.

Oh ya, its very polite to target a single person in a room full of other people. Instead of just pulling them aside before and asking them not to do something. And she even says, even though its twitch con we would ask that you dont stream this. Or something like that. Now im not a content creator but why would anyone think you couldnt stream at twitch con? So i have to ask, how was he in the wrong? Especially when, according to him, they said it was ok to stream for pains dj thing. And she even said, pain has his own twitch channel. So then its ok for pain to do it, but not nefas? Nah, this has some weird vibes all around.

As for the video, its just sad. A sad video in a long line of similar ones from many people. The state of this game and community over the last few years is depressing. so many causal players do not understand what it means to constantly lose players like this. Players that care, put massive time into the game, and create things. Look at everything lost with just this one person. And thats nothing close to what we've lost with everyone else over the last few years.

Content creators, guild leaders, community leaders, event creators, addon creators, people who test things so others dont have to, people who find bugs, and get on the pts to try things, and make builds, and websites, and whatever else. This an mmo and community matters. A lot. And i promise you, turning this game into skyrim online will not help it succeed. Focusing mainly on the people who come to quest through the story once a year will not help it succeed. Alienating large parts of your community by making changes focused on super casual players, like update 35, will not help it succeed.

Having such a terrible reward system and selling everything on the crown store, while making quick money in the short term, will not help this game succeed and only keep long term players away. Players that would make zenimax more money in the long term. But zos doesnt understand any of this, they never have and never will. They need to change so much to make things better, and its so unlikely they will do even some of the things they need to, never mind all of them.

And i understand a lot of solo/super casual players dont understand the issues in this mmorpg, and why some of these things are bad, but in time you will see. A thriving mmo is good for everyone, even you, but it never will like this.

WhisperLFE · January 1

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

WhisperLFE wrote: »

Jaimeh wrote: »

BetweenMidgets wrote: »

what a bad look for that lady at the end calling out nefas.

To be fair, in the beginning she does say in a very polite and coaxing manner with a smile, 'we would appreciate no live streaming', and when Nefas disregards it and tries to go around it, while she is clearly repeating that she is being serious, and he ignores it, she then has to ask him to stop for the event to proceed. There's nothing humiliating about this, it might be embarrassing, but he was in the wrong (and he wasn't even sheepish or graceful about it afterwards). It's like you are walking in a park with a group and you step on the grass when you are told you're not supposed to, and then someone calls you out, so you have to step off and people might stare. It's just embarrassing but that was your mistake.

Agree to disagree that the original comment about no live streaming was "very polite." I have no problem if their policy is no live streaming; it's their event, they set the rules. But the tone and manner struck me as pretty condescending.

But the description of the call by/with a community manager earlier in the video could also set them up in a negative light.

I haven't watched it, but just going by what was said here-- if they said no livestreaming but he did anyway, how exactly was his manner any better than hers? It sounds like you're painting him as a victim in this, but it kind of sounds like he set himself up to be a victim by deliberately being disrespectful. You apparently think she was disrespectful toward him, yet you don't see him as bearing any personal responsibility in the matter even though he was disrespectful toward her first. Wow.

That's a heck of a logical leap there. Where do I state he has no personal responsibility? I said if their policy was not to stream, I have no problem with them. I never said he should've been able to stream, that he did nothing wrong, etc. I was disagreeing that her initial response, IMO, was "very polite." Fair or not, if you're a representative of an organization in a professional or semi-professional role and context, more of the burden falls to you to remain professional in your demeanor. The tone also isn't going to help to defuse a situation or engender a collegial atmosphere.

Now, if they'd said before the clip, very explicitly, that no streaming is allowed. And he, very explicitly, then said, "F that, I do what I want, YOLO!" I could maybe understand why she'd be a little annoyed. I'd still say the better look is to remain professional, but hey, we're human. But that doesn't seem to have been what happened here. Also, his reaction of course has no bearing on the tone of her original comment, which was made before he said anything.

Edit: also, you said yourself you didn't watch it. Therefore, your perspective is one with limited information.

Soarora · January 1

Servadei wrote: »

I know most here won't even understand the impact this will have and dismiss and belittle it, but this is such a huge brain drain. What a loss.

No one I know goes to Nefas for information. Everyone goes to the 1%s, friends, and/or themselves. He quit like a year ago and the worlds still spinning. The brain drain is bad, but I don’t think Nefas is the keystone people make him out to be.

Edit: and I will give him credit, ESOU was a great idea, I just don’t know if it really worked out the way it was supposed to. Like I said, I joined for a bit and then left, so I don’t know if midgame players found it to be useful or not. But I never saw anyone other than Nefas suggest ESOU to people either.

TheValkyn · January 1

Zenimax Online Studios community lost a member/creator that was doing more to inform, entertain, and teach about the game than the actual company that runs the game. I’m also not surprised about the censorship in lieu of listening.

I watched the video in its entirety. Being a customer shouldn’t feel like a job. They treated him like he was both an employee and a soldier.

The games industry is a small world but the market for other game options is vast.

xclassgaming · January 1

So is he actually leaving? like the other times he said or is he just gonna be back in april when zos does their season preview?

he'll be back

Unfadingsilence · January 1

xclassgaming wrote: »

So is he actually leaving? like the other times he said or is he just gonna be back in april when zos does their season preview?

he'll be back

He will always be back.I guarantee just like myself. I'm pretty sure he probably spent over 10k on this game and I'm not talking about his streaming setup I'm talking about real money for in game items, membership and so forth

DenverRalphy · January 1

xclassgaming wrote: »

So is he actually leaving? like the other times he said or is he just gonna be back in april when zos does their season preview?

he'll be back

Will anybody really care? Because seriously, if this thread hadn't popped up today I'd still be toolin along completely oblivious to his actual existence. It's been over a year since I last even acknowledged or noted who he is. A significantly large portion of the players reading this don't even know who he is/was.

For someone who's been largely irrelevant for just over a year now, it's surprising how some want to make it out to be some huge deal.

gronoxvx · January 1

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

WhisperLFE wrote: »

Jaimeh wrote: »

BetweenMidgets wrote: »

what a bad look for that lady at the end calling out nefas.

To be fair, in the beginning she does say in a very polite and coaxing manner with a smile, 'we would appreciate no live streaming', and when Nefas disregards it and tries to go around it, while she is clearly repeating that she is being serious, and he ignores it, she then has to ask him to stop for the event to proceed. There's nothing humiliating about this, it might be embarrassing, but he was in the wrong (and he wasn't even sheepish or graceful about it afterwards). It's like you are walking in a park with a group and you step on the grass when you are told you're not supposed to, and then someone calls you out, so you have to step off and people might stare. It's just embarrassing but that was your mistake.

Agree to disagree that the original comment about no live streaming was "very polite." I have no problem if their policy is no live streaming; it's their event, they set the rules. But the tone and manner struck me as pretty condescending.

But the description of the call by/with a community manager earlier in the video could also set them up in a negative light.

I haven't watched it, but just going by what was said here-- if they said no livestreaming but he did anyway, how exactly was his manner any better than hers? It sounds like you're painting him as a victim in this, but it kind of sounds like he set himself up to be a victim by deliberately being disrespectful. You apparently think she was disrespectful toward him, yet you don't see him as bearing any personal responsibility in the matter even though he was disrespectful toward her first. Wow.

If you havent watched it, then maybe you should before commenting and adding your 2c? Just a thought.

Desiato · January 1

I'm not a member of the ESOU community, but it's a shame when someone takes a "taking their toys with them" approach to exiting the game.

A successful community is not just the result of the work of the founders and executives, but everyone involved from the admins to the users. So it would be nice if they could pass on leadership to a new party in some way.

Maybe there's some irony as it relates to how a community is treated by a service provider?

Nonetheless, I can relate to Nefas as I had similar feelings in 2019 before quitting for years. I seem to recall he's wanted to reduce his engagement in eso for a while. I hope he finds what he's looking for elsewhere.

Servadei · January 1

Soarora wrote: »

Servadei wrote: »

I know most here won't even understand the impact this will have and dismiss and belittle it, but this is such a huge brain drain. What a loss.

No one I know goes to Nefas for information. Everyone goes to the 1%s, friends, and/or themselves. He quit like a year ago and the worlds still spinning. The brain drain is bad, but I don’t think Nefas is the keystone people make him out to be.

Edit: and I will give him credit, ESOU was a great idea, I just don’t know if it really worked out the way it was supposed to. Like I said, I joined for a bit and then left, so I don’t know if midgame players found it to be useful or not. But I never saw anyone other than Nefas suggest ESOU to people either.

It wasn't just ESO info that he provided. This dude coordinated large groups of players to join his ESO projects, like the raid leader project that had 300 raid leads. He also exposed, and reported to ZOS, very bad actors in game, one group he mentions in the video but he also exposed other equally vile players. I'm not talking about cheaters and trash talkers either. I can't get into details here for obvious reasons, but these people could be arrested in real life if what they did in ESO was reported to the authorities.

alternatelder · January 1

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

wilykcat wrote: »

What's ESOU?

Elderscrolls University. The largest source of information and builds for ESO.
It was run by Nefas who is probably the largest content creator for ESO on youtube. (Skinnycheeks probably had more subscribers but focussed mostly on builds).

Largest source but probably not as popular as you make it sound. This is the first I've heard of it and I've played since 2015. I've also been following Nefas for a while. 🤷

sarahthes · January 1

Servadei wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Servadei wrote: »

I know most here won't even understand the impact this will have and dismiss and belittle it, but this is such a huge brain drain. What a loss.

No one I know goes to Nefas for information. Everyone goes to the 1%s, friends, and/or themselves. He quit like a year ago and the worlds still spinning. The brain drain is bad, but I don’t think Nefas is the keystone people make him out to be.

Edit: and I will give him credit, ESOU was a great idea, I just don’t know if it really worked out the way it was supposed to. Like I said, I joined for a bit and then left, so I don’t know if midgame players found it to be useful or not. But I never saw anyone other than Nefas suggest ESOU to people either.

It wasn't just ESO info that he provided. This dude coordinated large groups of players to join his ESO projects, like the raid leader project that had 300 raid leads. He also exposed, and reported to ZOS, very bad actors in game, one group he mentions in the video but he also exposed other equally vile players. I'm not talking about cheaters and trash talkers either. I can't get into details here for obvious reasons, but these people could be arrested in real life if what they did in ESO was reported to the authorities.

He stopped providing meaningful content somewhere between 2 and 3 years ago. I like Nefas, but he hung on to ESO way too long and should have just quietly left the last time he announced he was quitting.

Stamicka · January 1

This behind the scenes look of how Nefas was treated is VERY enlightening. I’m happy that he’s standing up for himself and cutting off support to a company that absolutely did not support him.

the1andonlyskwex · January 1

Stamicka wrote: »

This behind the scenes look of how Nefas was treated is VERY enlightening. I’m happy that he’s standing up for himself and cutting off support from a company that absolutely did not support him.

Why would anyone expect ZOS to treat Nefas well when 80% of his content is bashing/complaining? Good riddance.

React · January 1

Anybody in here discrediting Nefas or saying they couldn't care less that he is leaving should take the time to watch his video. The behaviors exhibited by zenimax towards him are nothing short of despicable, extremely unprofessional, and they are very telling of what this company thinks of it's community as a whole, not just it's content creators.

Stamicka · January 1

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Stamicka wrote: »

This behind the scenes look of how Nefas was treated is VERY enlightening. I’m happy that he’s standing up for himself and cutting off support from a company that absolutely did not support him.

Why would anyone expect ZOS to treat Nefas well when 80% of his content is bashing/complaining? Good riddance.

Streamers help promote the game and also get others involved in the game. There’s nothing wrong with being critical of ESO’s choices because nothing is ever improved if the developers surround themselves with yes men.

Nefas kept his criticisms professional for the most part and I thought ZOS was supposed to be all about “listening to feedback and communicating better” these days. Trying to censor critical videos and not following up on communication is the opposite of that.

Orbital78 · January 1

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Stamicka wrote: »

This behind the scenes look of how Nefas was treated is VERY enlightening. I’m happy that he’s standing up for himself and cutting off support from a company that absolutely did not support him.

Why would anyone expect ZOS to treat Nefas well when 80% of his content is bashing/complaining? Good riddance.

is it bashing if it is the truth?

colossalvoids · January 1

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Stamicka wrote: »

This behind the scenes look of how Nefas was treated is VERY enlightening. I’m happy that he’s standing up for himself and cutting off support from a company that absolutely did not support him.

Why would anyone expect ZOS to treat Nefas well when 80% of his content is bashing/complaining? Good riddance.

Not sure it's a valuable input if you're not aware of his content in any capacity. And content is not just YouTube, it's the whole community building from the ground up, all the possible tools etc.

You can have your personal feelings sure but be real. His impact was huge if you've been around for some time at least.

Soarora · January 1

React wrote: »

Anybody in here discrediting Nefas or saying they couldn't care less that he is leaving should take the time to watch his video. The behaviors exhibited by zenimax towards him are nothing short of despicable, extremely unprofessional, and they are very telling of what this company thinks of it's community as a whole, not just it's content creators.

I feel like theres two different discussions going on here. One about how he was treated, and one about if his content matters. They’re not mutually exclusive. Can think his content doesn’t matter and is toxic but also think he shouldn’t be treated poorly by ZOS.

NotNi.ya · January 1

.

React wrote: »

Anybody in here discrediting Nefas or saying they couldn't care less that he is leaving should take the time to watch his video. The behaviors exhibited by zenimax towards him are nothing short of despicable, extremely unprofessional, and they are very telling of what this company thinks of it's community as a whole, not just it's content creators.

this^^^ i wasnt a fan of nefas at all. but what was said by zos was disgusting.

the1andonlyskwex · January 1

colossalvoids wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Stamicka wrote: »

This behind the scenes look of how Nefas was treated is VERY enlightening. I’m happy that he’s standing up for himself and cutting off support from a company that absolutely did not support him.

Why would anyone expect ZOS to treat Nefas well when 80% of his content is bashing/complaining? Good riddance.

Not sure it's a valuable input if you're not aware of his content in any capacity. And content is not just YouTube, it's the whole community building from the ground up, all the possible tools etc.

You can have your personal feelings sure but be real. His impact was huge if you've been around for some time at least.

Most of the impact I've seen is Nefas stirring the community into one rage after another over his own pet annoyances that he likes to blow way out of proportion relative to their actual effect on the average player.

AzuraFan · January 1

I've never used his site. If people hadn't posted his videos here on the forums on occasion, I'd never have heard of the guy. And I've already watched two or three other "I'm leaving" videos, though this time it sounds like he's actually going.

I know it can be difficult to leave an MMO behind, but the guy should just leave gracefully like most of us do. No need to create a 42-minute grievance video. I know some people lap this stuff up, but with only one side of the story, who knows what actually happened.

I did jump ahead and watch the "public humiliation part", and I don't see it. Gina asked him to stop streaming. He didn't. She said they wouldn't start until he did. People laughed at her joke, NOT AT HIM.

Anyway, good luck to him.

SilverBride · January 1

I've played a long time and I've never been to that website.

sarahthes · January 1

SilverBride wrote: »

I've played a long time and I've never been to that website.

It's not solely a website. Four or five years ago, up until around update 35, it was valuable for people interested in learning endgame raiding. The discord server had close to 30K members at its height. It was an important community resource.

Grega · January 1

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Stamicka wrote: »

This behind the scenes look of how Nefas was treated is VERY enlightening. I’m happy that he’s standing up for himself and cutting off support from a company that absolutely did not support him.

Why would anyone expect ZOS to treat Nefas well when 80% of his content is bashing/complaining? Good riddance.

Not sure it's a valuable input if you're not aware of his content in any capacity. And content is not just YouTube, it's the whole community building from the ground up, all the possible tools etc.

You can have your personal feelings sure but be real. His impact was huge if you've been around for some time at least.

Most of the impact I've seen is Nefas stirring the community into one rage after another over his own pet annoyances that he likes to blow way out of proportion relative to their actual effect on the average player.

There are 2 sides of his story and we only heard his. I agree on out of proportion and would add to also out of relevance - for the purpose of dramatic effect. Multiple times in the video he kept stating time is running out and that he’s dying - as if eso/zos/bad people are causing it - and I’m not a medical professional but I’m pretty sure shingles are caused by dormant small pox virus and not everything that was happening in relation to eso.

The over the top dramatization of death and medical stuff makes one wonder how much is taken out of context because he is simply hating ESO.

When a person hates something - that something, whether positive or negative in reality - in perspective of the hateful person will always be negative. Like even when CM on stage asked to stop live-streaming - if you like a person that asks you that, you’ll laugh along, if you hate them, you will take it as worst thing possible.

Marto · January 1

For many, many years now he's only been looking for excuses to hate on ESO and the devs for the sake of views.

I understand and appreciate being critical, and I get some people are more cynical than I am, but it was really reaching the point of just being pointless hate. None of it constructive, very little of it warranted, and very often devolving into personal attacks.

And that latest video only reinforced that even more. Acting like a victim when he's the instigator, fostering a harmful and unprofessional relationship with ZOS, and then getting mad when they get tired of his nonesense. He claims he's being respectful, while disrespecting people in the same breath.

So no, I don't believe it for a second when he says he's polite and professional.

ESO has problems, there are legitimate concerns about combat and content, and ZOS' relationship with content creators is not the best. But all content creators like Nefas did was make those issues worse.

He discouraged ZOS from being transparent. Spread needless negativity that made good changes be perceived as bad. And fostered a more elitist and closed-minded endgame community. He's not the sort of content creator ESO ever needed.

KiltMaster · January 1

if you haven't watched the video, then don't comment. Watch the video. It's very eye opening.

freespirit · January 1

I've heard of Nefas but never heard of ESOU tbh.

I have over 20k hours in ESO and I've never felt the need to go to somebody other than myself to learn how to play!

Life changes, people move on, I wish him good luck with his next adventure, will it negatively affect me....... very unlikely!!

Stamicka · January 1

freespirit wrote: »

I've heard of Nefas but never heard of ESOU tbh.

I have over 20k hours in ESO and I've never felt the need to go to somebody other than myself to learn how to play!

Life changes, people move on, I wish him good luck with his next adventure, will it negatively affect me....... very unlikely!!

In his video he also mentions that the developers sent out some sort of communication that they were hosting a meeting for the stream team members to attend regarding Matt Firor’s end of the year letter. We also heard of many instances where Nefas kept getting these mobster like threats such as: “the gaming community is really small you know”.

Beyond whether you care if he’s quitting or not, this is unacceptable behavior by a company. Especially the fact that these stream team members had to go to a debrief about the studio directors letter… I really wonder what that was about.

BananaBender · January 1

To me it's not really about him leaving, he has been going for a while. What matters more is why he left. This is just one more thing to add on the massive list about ZoS' communication problems and how they interact with the player base.

I think people are just ignoring and casting this case aside simply because he is a content creator and not to their liking. It's just wild and alarming how ZoS handled the situation as a whole, but it's not really that surprising considering how their communication with players have been over the past few years.

To me this is just another nail in the coffin...

It's also hilarious how wild conclusions people draw without actually watching the whole video.