Crazy Polymorphs are ruining the game

OldStygian

Ya, I agree some of the stuff is getting really on the nose.

The Molag Bal poly and pet is the worst example IMO.

Jaraal

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

i really like the polymorphs, especially because most of them make you essentially non-human

want to play as a daedra? xivkyn polymorphs for example

my main has been running around with the skeleton active almost since the game launched, back then it was still considered a "disguise" instead of a polymorph because polymorphs didnt exist at the time lol

My lone Argonian character wears a Xivkyn polymorph to hide the wildly disproportionate tail.

BlueRaven

opalcity wrote: »

I disagree. For me it adds some variety and fun to the world.

I agree with you, they don’t bother me too much. I just wish they put some effort into some cool looking mounts that are not light shows.

Soarora

tomofhyrule wrote: »

I always find it interesting that people who make these “I don’t like other people having fun!” threads don’t stop to consider that the other people may have a very good reason for things, and an in-universe lore-appropriate one as well.

Seriously, does nobody think that it’s completely possible for someone to have a fully-researched 5+ page backstory on why their character is a minotaur? Because I haven’t finished mine yet, but the google doc with my planning and research is up to 7.5 pages now, and all I need is for ZOS to release a new class so I can patch a few holes in his backstory and get him off the ground.

Exactly. It's not lore-breaking for someone to play as a nonplayable race. The only one I have problems with is the Molag Bal polymorph. Spriggans, atronachs, soulrazer knights, daedra, etc. can all have perfectly reasonable explanations behind them. Either someone /is/ that creature or they're someone else polymorphed to look like that creature. I for one have a soulrazer knight who isn't actually a soulrazer knight, just polymorphs to look like one.

In terms of this mirrormoor atronach, it's probably not an actual atronach but rather a daedra (I say this because atronachs are from specific dimensions with their own societies, they are not made by a specific Prince. Daedra are.). Either way, both atronachs and daedra have cognition. Even ones you think don't, like clannfear (Clannfear had dialogue in Battlespire.)

Hapexamendios

I'd say for the most part, stuff like like polymorphs don't really bother me unless they're ultra bright and blind my vision. Immersion isn't really an aspect of the game that interests me.

tomofhyrule

Wolfkeks wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

jlats wrote: »

Honestly just think about it like it’s a costume, like people in this world including guards etc. know it’s not a real spriggan or Minotaur or whatever. That happens in the real world all the time. Just go for lunch near a big fantasy/sci-fi/anime convention and you see people in mad costumes surrounded by people in regular clothes. Or compare it to the Hollywood walk of fame or vegas, everyone knows it’s not really Michael Jackson or Elvis and it doesn’t faze them.

The companions certainly do think of it as just an illusion.

For example what Mirri says

When you equip the Cadaverous Assassin polymorph:

"Nope! I know it's just an illusion, but I don't like it, I don't want it. Uh uh."

Didn't know that the companions react like this to polymorphs. (Now I'm wondering how Ember reacts to the werewolf lord polymorph since she dislikes wolves) So yeah makes sense that the npcs think you just use magic to change your appearance.

Sharp has one of the best ones.

He doesn’t like Dwemer or Clockwork stuff, so if you put on the vAS polymorph, he says "If that wasn't you in there, I'd break you down, melt your parts, and sell you at a markup."

Amottica

Technically, Zenimax/MS owns lore. They define what lore is and can change it at will.

Thysbe

I gave up on hoping to see ESO coming back to the "old style" I just wanted to have a bit more colour which I got via using filters - but not super-neon-cyberpunk BÄm.

To have immersion and enjoy the feeling I have known for years I started to do more and more in less populated areas. Recently replayed the Greymore chapter with an alt - it was awesome to enjoy ESO without all that visual trash since the zone itself is pretty classic and not many players are around.

Attorneyatlawl

Erickson9610 wrote: »

I'd support a client-side toggle to hide everyone's customization items. I personally wouldn't use it unless I was in PvP and needed to see things like what race a player is using despite them hiding it with their polymorphs.

I'd love this, for any location in game. Especially pvp where it reduces their hitbox (some disguises and polymorphs) and makes it harder to identify what they are or are casting (skill styles).

Circuitous

I think OP is a little hyperbolic, but if they added a toggle to Hide Polymorphs, I would use it.

And on the topic of light show mounts, I'd really appreciate it if they didn't play their summoning animation every time they approached from outside your render distance. Some of them feel more like a comet landing in the distance, and it's very distracting. (They also make me not want to buy those mounts. I'll stick with my no-fuss Dwemer Spider.)

Tazzy

The damn Flappy`s annoy me more than any polymorph or flashy mount.

Fischblut

I like seeing such items in game, they make the world much more interesting
People with bright costumes, interesting polymorphs and mounts make the boring dirty crafting area in Vivec City actually bearable.







I only wish that we could hear how the polymorph sounds when previewing it in the crown store!

OtarTheMad

I enjoy them honestly. I mean TES is a world of fantasy, chaos and magic so it makes sense. Plus, immersion wise, could just say that a mage casted an illusion spell on you and you see weird stuff.

JiubLeRepenti

Mavloc wrote: »

It's very lore-breaking and nonimmersive to see people walking around town as literal atronachs or living chandeliers.
As if the crazy mounts weren't bad enough.

Dear ZOS, Stop It.
Just stop.

You are 100% right.

But ZOS won't stop.

Because it generates money.

It is that simple.

JiubLeRepenti

Amottica wrote: »

Technically, Zenimax/MS owns lore. They define what lore is and can change it at will.

Thing is: from what I see, ZOS doesn't generate any coherent lore around these flashy collectibles.

I would like to know how the lore of the following mount integrates with the overall lore of the game:



So if they want to change the lore as they wish, fine. But then, the lore should clearly explain why atronachs, skeletons, or Daedric knights can wander freely in a city.

PDarkBHood

Your welcome! I really like the polymorphs and radiant apex mounts. Keep them coming! I buy what I like. You forget it is a business and they need to feed their families etc. So your welcome, from all those who buy them to keep a happy and healthy mmorpg.

TaSheen

*shrug* I never notice stuff like that.

jlats

JiubLeRepenti wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Technically, Zenimax/MS owns lore. They define what lore is and can change it at will.

Thing is: from what I see, ZOS doesn't generate any coherent lore around these flashy collectibles.

I would like to know how the lore of the following mount integrates with the overall lore of the game:



So if they want to change the lore as they wish, fine. But then, the lore should clearly explain why atronachs, skeletons, or Daedric knights can wander freely in a city.

Polymorphs are pretty much always referred to in their descriptions as guises and illusions, so, a costume. That’s how they fit in. The same way they do in real life when people want to dress up or whatever.

And mounts like in your example are usually described as being conjured up by a mage, or as an illusion put on an already existing animal. That’s all fine lore wise. It’s just individuals messing about with magic and seeing what they can do which is p realistic in a world with magic. It’s like asking a fashion design student how the specific dress they made integrates into the lore of the world. It integrates because they had the materials and creativity and skill available to make x, y or z, so they made it.

Unfadingsilence

Mavloc wrote: »

It's very lore-breaking and nonimmersive to see people walking around town as literal atronachs or living chandeliers.
As if the crazy mounts weren't bad enough.

Dear ZOS, Stop It.
Just stop.

Lore-breaking? You are about 9 years to late with this post

JiubLeRepenti

jlats wrote: »

JiubLeRepenti wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Technically, Zenimax/MS owns lore. They define what lore is and can change it at will.

Thing is: from what I see, ZOS doesn't generate any coherent lore around these flashy collectibles.

I would like to know how the lore of the following mount integrates with the overall lore of the game:



So if they want to change the lore as they wish, fine. But then, the lore should clearly explain why atronachs, skeletons, or Daedric knights can wander freely in a city.

Polymorphs are pretty much always referred to in their descriptions as guises and illusions, so, a costume. That’s how they fit in. The same way they do in real life when people want to dress up or whatever.

And mounts like in your example are usually described as being conjured up by a mage, or as an illusion put on an already existing animal. That’s all fine lore wise. It’s just individuals messing about with magic and seeing what they can do which is p realistic in a world with magic. It’s like asking a fashion design student how the specific dress they made integrates into the lore of the world. It integrates because they had the materials and creativity and skill available to make x, y or z, so they made it.

My point wasn't to say that this creature couldn't exist in the game

What I meant is that it's a bit incoherent to be allowed to summon huge Daedric mounts or use werewolf/skeleton/Daedric polymorph in the city.

For example, in Skyrim, you can't shout in the streets with guards nearby. You can't transform into a werewolf or a vampire either. The same goes for Morrowind (and probably Oblivion).

So, yeah, basically, the OP has a point when they say it's not very lore-friendly, as you couldn't do the same in previous games. Or we have to assume that all the guards in Tamriel in ESO don't care at all about what happens in their city.

To reuse your comparison with a student, it's like being allowed to walk around naked as a student at Harvard, but not at Cambridge, Oxford, or Stanford.

spartaxoxo

JiubLeRepenti wrote: »

jlats wrote: »

JiubLeRepenti wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Technically, Zenimax/MS owns lore. They define what lore is and can change it at will.

Thing is: from what I see, ZOS doesn't generate any coherent lore around these flashy collectibles.

I would like to know how the lore of the following mount integrates with the overall lore of the game:



So if they want to change the lore as they wish, fine. But then, the lore should clearly explain why atronachs, skeletons, or Daedric knights can wander freely in a city.

Polymorphs are pretty much always referred to in their descriptions as guises and illusions, so, a costume. That’s how they fit in. The same way they do in real life when people want to dress up or whatever.

And mounts like in your example are usually described as being conjured up by a mage, or as an illusion put on an already existing animal. That’s all fine lore wise. It’s just individuals messing about with magic and seeing what they can do which is p realistic in a world with magic. It’s like asking a fashion design student how the specific dress they made integrates into the lore of the world. It integrates because they had the materials and creativity and skill available to make x, y or z, so they made it.

My point wasn't to say that this creature couldn't exist in the game

What I meant is that it's a bit incoherent to be allowed to summon huge Daedric mounts or use werewolf/skeleton/Daedric polymorph in the city.

For example, in Skyrim, you can't shout in the streets with guards nearby. You can't transform into a werewolf or a vampire either. The same goes for Morrowind (and probably Oblivion).

So, yeah, basically, the OP has a point when they say it's not very lore-friendly, as you couldn't do the same in previous games. Or we have to assume that all the guards in Tamriel in ESO don't care at all about what happens in their city.

To reuse your comparison with a student, it's like being allowed to walk around naked as a student at Harvard, but not at Cambridge, Oxford, or Stanford.

You can shout in Skyrim. Sometimes a guard says something about it but you can tell them to stuff it without consequences and keep doing it because it is legally allowed. You can conjure too. Someone might say something like "That spell looks dangerous" but they won't bother you.

You can't be a werewolf or vampire in those games or this one. This game gives you a bounty.

Guards not having an issue with illusion or conjuration magic but arresting you for Necromancy, Vampirism, and Lycanthropy is consistent with the lore.

tomofhyrule

There is also the Doylist/Watsonian version of "I'm roleplaying a Daedra, but I do need to get skill points to establish the character, and that means there are some quests/skyshards I have to do that involve being in town. Even though in my personal lore, they don't ever go into town."

Yes, they may be needing to have an OOC moment because of required game mechanics. Just like a lore-friendly player seeing a different player is also a small OOC moment.

But if you're the kind of person who thinks that no player should ever be allowed to have their mounts/polymorphs/etc. (which all do have flavor text to connect them to the lore in some way, I might add), then I think it's only correct that you submit your character's entire backstory for community approval, and if it is rejected you need to delete your character because it is inappropriate to someone else's personal lore, right?

JiubLeRepenti

spartaxoxo wrote: »

JiubLeRepenti wrote: »

jlats wrote: »

JiubLeRepenti wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Technically, Zenimax/MS owns lore. They define what lore is and can change it at will.

Thing is: from what I see, ZOS doesn't generate any coherent lore around these flashy collectibles.

I would like to know how the lore of the following mount integrates with the overall lore of the game:



So if they want to change the lore as they wish, fine. But then, the lore should clearly explain why atronachs, skeletons, or Daedric knights can wander freely in a city.

Polymorphs are pretty much always referred to in their descriptions as guises and illusions, so, a costume. That’s how they fit in. The same way they do in real life when people want to dress up or whatever.

And mounts like in your example are usually described as being conjured up by a mage, or as an illusion put on an already existing animal. That’s all fine lore wise. It’s just individuals messing about with magic and seeing what they can do which is p realistic in a world with magic. It’s like asking a fashion design student how the specific dress they made integrates into the lore of the world. It integrates because they had the materials and creativity and skill available to make x, y or z, so they made it.

My point wasn't to say that this creature couldn't exist in the game

What I meant is that it's a bit incoherent to be allowed to summon huge Daedric mounts or use werewolf/skeleton/Daedric polymorph in the city.

For example, in Skyrim, you can't shout in the streets with guards nearby. You can't transform into a werewolf or a vampire either. The same goes for Morrowind (and probably Oblivion).

So, yeah, basically, the OP has a point when they say it's not very lore-friendly, as you couldn't do the same in previous games. Or we have to assume that all the guards in Tamriel in ESO don't care at all about what happens in their city.

To reuse your comparison with a student, it's like being allowed to walk around naked as a student at Harvard, but not at Cambridge, Oxford, or Stanford.

You can shout in Skyrim. Sometimes a guard says something about it but you can tell them to stuff it without consequences and keep doing it because it is legally allowed. You can conjure too. Someone might say something like "That spell looks dangerous" but they won't bother you.

You can't be a werewolf or vampire in those games or this one. This game gives you a bounty.

Guards not having an issue with illusion or conjuration magic but arresting you for Necromancy, Vampirism, and Lycanthropy is consistent with the lore.

I forgot that you couldn’t turn into a Vampire Lord in ESO while in cities without facing any consequences. Just because I’ve never tried to. My bad on this one.

As for shouting, it's a bit more ambiguous. Yes, you can shout, but at least the guards will make a remark and ask you to stop. And yes, you can taunt them and tell them you don’t care, but they’ll clearly warn you that they’ll keep an eye on you. So even if it’s not strictly forbidden, at least you know it’s not appreciated.

We could even go further and argue that NPCs in Skyrim will systematically comment on your vampirism and/or lycanthropy (asking why you smell like a dog, etc.). The population remains cautious and wary of it. In Skyrim, people notice and react (unless I missed their lines).

In ESO, you literally receive no remarks from anybody, no matter what you do, what you are, etc. Nobody cares at all. It’s a notable difference compared to other TES games.

JanTanhide

This thread makes me want to get all the polymorphs! Heck yeah!

spartaxoxo

JiubLeRepenti wrote: »

In ESO, you literally receive no remarks from anybody, no matter what you do, what you are, etc. Nobody cares at all. It’s a notable difference compared to other TES games.

It's not literally zero e.g vendors won't trade with stage 4 vampires, but ESO is definitely way less interactive in that way. I will say that's one of things I do miss about the single player games. They could probably stand to add some ambient dialogue about these polymorphs, non-combat pets, and mounts. They have a little with the companions but they could do more.

BTW there is ambient dialogue based on our actions. This one you may have heard for example:

“Praise Vivec! You were there to stop Alexandra Conele from capturing the Coral Heart.”

They also have some for justice actions, including vampire, werewolf, and Necromancy.

https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Ambient_Dialogue

https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Justice_Dialogue

Bekkael

Mavloc wrote: »

It's very lore-breaking and nonimmersive to see people walking around town as literal atronachs or living chandeliers.
As if the crazy mounts weren't bad enough.

Dear ZOS, Stop It.
Just stop.

"Oh, hello friend, welcome to MMO-world, Tamriel edition! I take it this is your first visit here? Wonderful! You're very welcome, please do come in and sit down, I just finished decorating this parlor. Sit anywhere you like." Fraedda smiles invitingly and gestures for Mavloc to come inside, out of the Eastmarch cold.

"Wait! Don't sit on the glowing throne, anywhere but there." Fraedda chuckles and shrugs, looking a little uncomfortable. "I mean, you could sit there if you really, really wanted to, but it will turn you into a lich with the face make-up of Dennis Rodman! Hmm, what's that? Oh, who is Dennis Rodman? Well, I'm not entirely certain of his original background, but based on all the gossip I've overheard at the Sober Nord, he's definitely one of the Daedra."

After Mavloc wisely takes a seat on the ornate Alinor couch, furthest away from the glowing throne, Fraedda beams at him and claps her hands together in anticipation.

"So good of you to drop in, I was just wishing for some company on this cold night, truth be told. I have a wonderful bottle of Skingrad red and some delicious Fargrave ham that we can share." At his furrowed brows and uncertain look Fraedda smiled reassuringly. "I know what you're thinking, but don't worry! Just because Fargrave ham looks like the night sky it doesn't mean it will turn your skin strange colors too, that's only a rumor."

Fraedda soon returns from the kitchen, carrying a tray full of food and drink. After serving the wine and filling two plates, she hands the bigger plate to Mavloc. "I also found some cheese I had specially imported from Morrowind, it's delicious and tastes of despair! That will pair nicely with the ham and wine."

After the bottle was empty and they had both eaten their fill, Fraedda turned to Mavloc with a serious, grave expression. "Since you are so new to Tamriel and don't yet know what is what, I feel it is my duty to warn you of one of the greatest threats you will face here." Her sigh was heavy before she leaned nearer and shook her head. "There is an orc, of average height and build, but don't let that fool you, she is tenacious and relentless in her quest for new blood. Her name....is Stuga."

(Sorry OP, I just couldn't resist.)

robpr

A small nitpick, some of old polys and skins have lore friendly explanation in the tooltip of these being cosmetic Illusion (poly) or Alternation (skin) spell.

UntilValhalla13

I mean, lore is just something some dude thought up years ago.

TaSheen

UntilValhalla13 wrote: »

I mean, lore is just something some dude thought up years ago.

Very true. And while the flashbangs don't bother me, nor the polymorphs etc (honestly, I don't even really see them), I do understand where the lore came from because I've been playing TES since Arena's release in 1994.

The lore is actually very solid; the games - including ESO - have that concrete background of reference. The original "builders" of the games did an extremely good job with the bricks and mortar of the lore. I love it, all of it, and I honor not only the original players and what they evolved over the years, but the "follow-on" developers of the computer games.

It's an amazing long-term effort, and it gives me much pleasure today, playing ESO and also Skyrim and Oblivion. The older games don't work well on today's machines and while Morrowind and Daggerfall might work okay with tweaks, I can no longer play first person POV in Daggerfall, and Morrowind is my least favorite of the entire series.

But TES is the only game universe I have any interest in all these years later, so I'm happy to play ESO and TES IV and TES V alongside ESO. I hope I will still be alive and able to play games when TES VI releases (if it ever does *sigh*).

Spectral_Force

Remathilis wrote: »

Remove the polymorphs (all of them), all flashy mounts, all exotic and daedric pets, daedric costumes, bright metallic clothes dyes, skill styles, custom actions, flashy weapons packs, skins, unnatural body/face markings, wild hair (Tanlorin) and all that other visual noise (and auditory noise). You can remove the crazy houses and furniture too.

There. We made Tamriel lore friendly and boringly plain.

Yes, can we unironically have this, please.