Anti-Teabagging Policy now encouraging even worse toxic behavior

SilverBride · October 2

spartaxoxo wrote: »

You can say it in general chat if the person has their whispers turned off. You just tell them to stop and if they don't you can report them.

Does the player have to try to whisper them first? Because by the time they type the name in to try the player could be gone. Or maybe they can't even type the name to try a whisper first. So would just asking in general chat be acceptable if the player is no longer nearby?

And will this player then get a warning that another player reported them for this, so they can at least contemplate if it's worth it to them to keep doing it?

I'm not looking for bans to be handed out. I just want players not to have to keep being subjected to something they find lewd and offensive.

spartaxoxo · October 2

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

2.c. transitive. In online gaming: to make one's character squat down repeatedly on the head of (an opponent's defeated character) to celebrate the victory and humiliate one's opponent.

Look up the original definition of teabagging. It is sexually explicit as everyone here well knows.

But the definition that you posted also states that it is done to humiliate one's opponent. That alone is unacceptable.

Just because two things share the same name, it doesn't mean they are the same thing. The namesake is explicit, the online gesture usually isn't. That's why it has a separate definition in the dictionary.

It also says it's just done to celebrate victory, and other sites show a greater variety of uses such as tactics or fun. Depends on the context which is meant.

Ok, but here's the thing you don't know and I don't know what's in the mind of the player shoving their virtual private parts into my face. What I do know is how that makes me feel.

Humilated is one word for it. It's not done simply to celebrate, it's done to humiliate. That's in the definition you posted. I don't think doing something that will make someone else feel that way is a good thing.

I don't know, that's true. Personally, I think the malicious people tend to linger and sometimes trash talk afterwards.

That's just my experience of it. The ones that are being friendly will usually compliment you at some point to show there's not hard feelings.

And the ones not even thinking about you like that will quickly move on and go somewhere else (vast majority).

Honestly, I did used to feel bad about it so I do empathize. My first experiences with it was in Call of Duty games. It was not pleasant.

But, as I played other games, I saw that it was just kind of a thing and not anything personal most of the time. Heck, some people even meant it as a compliment because they were celebrating defeating you because you'd been an extremely tough opponent all match.

So now that I've had more variety of experiences with it, having played PvP in games for so many years, it doesn't bother me anymore.

Sleepsin · October 2

Ingel_Riday wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

It is done with consent. When we participate in PvP we are doing so willingly and with the expectation that we will kill and/or be killed by other players.
...
PvPing does not include an expectation of having a sexually suggestive gesture performed over a player's body.

You know, not to sound flippant... maybe the real solution here is a separate Cyrodiil shard.

When I go into PVP, I'm consenting to ALL of what PVP is. The taunting, the pranking, the stabbing, the chaos, the thieving, and the madness. It's a hyper-competitive, tribal bloodbath and I expect no quarter. If I get tea-bagged, I glare and plot revenge. "Oh, you'll get yours... all of you Aldmeri will get yours." That's actually part of the fun.

It sounds like you want the stabbing and the chaos, but not the pranking or the taunting. You want a PVP safe-space. "GG. You got me." *state-sanctioned taunt over body* "Tyfg."

I'd be fine with ZOS making a safe-space PVP shard for each mode, with strict rules on what you can say and do at all times... but trying to do that to the main shards is just a recipe for even lower engagement. I genuinely don't believe the average player wants that at all. It removes a core facet of competitiveness from the experience, replacing it with nothing.

Edit addition: all this talk makes me sad and more appreciative of pvp modes in games like Space Marines 2... where you aren't expecting to melta-gun people with courtesy. What an odd era.

Maybe we could get a "timeout" emot, so we can call a time out during a fight so we can collect our thoughts and compose ourselves.

BagOfBadgers · October 2

Question and opinions.

Is the Dark Brotherhood equivalent to actual murder and crimes (I know people that don't do any of it as it feels wrong. Their choice)?
The Thieves Guild equivalent to actual theft and crimes?
Overworld questing equivalent to genocide?
Is TB'ing equivalent to SA?

I would say no to all (as someone that is a survivor. I don't need people speaking on my behalf, thank you).

TB'ing, Tactical Squatting, Corpse Humping, Clam Slams, whatever else it's called is a thing. ZOS has ToS that define it and what to do about reporting it.

If someone does it to me in PvP, oh well. Should my Raid Leader die it's a thing we all do to them (not to pugs in group), we even run a addon that counts the most received and delivered. Do I do it in PvP, nah, others do and the run the risk of reports, simples.

There needs to be a better way of reporting unwanted actions/words and being online, not marked offline, etc,etc, should be the only way to whisper or kill another player. So you can only PvP when Online. Change it and get an insta kick.

Anyho off to play ESO.

spartaxoxo · October 2

SilverBride wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

You can say it in general chat if the person has their whispers turned off. You just tell them to stop and if they don't you can report them.

Does the player have to try to whisper them first? Because by the time they type the name in to try the player could be gone. Or maybe they can't even type the name to try a whisper first. So would just asking in general chat be acceptable if the player is no longer nearby?

And will this player then get a warning that another player reported them for this, so they can at least contemplate if it's worth it to them to keep doing it?

I'm not looking for bans to be handed out. I just want players not to have to keep being subjected to something they find lewd and offensive.

Yes. You can put it in general chat.

Yes, first offense is a warning afaik. But requires deliberately targeting someone. But I could be wrong about that. I have never been in-game suspended. If not it might be a short ban.

SteveCampsOut · October 2

I have a Brilliant Idea! Create an Anti-T-Bagging set of gear that acts as a triggered by T-Bagging bomb that obliterates the T-Bagger when activated. You T-Bag me, I explode doing you a Million Damage Points! Boom! T-Bagging Ends Forever!

spartaxoxo · October 2

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

I have a Brilliant Idea! Create an Anti-T-Bagging set of gear that acts as a triggered by T-Bagging bomb that obliterates the T-Bagger when activated. You T-Bag me, I explode doing you a Million Damage Points! Boom! T-Bagging Ends Forever!

The character of Junkrat in Overwatch explodes into bombs when he dies. One of the funniest thing I've seen was watching a very small group run up try to teabag me mindlessly, only to die to the bombs, and it end up the Play of the Game. (POTG is a replay of one short play by a player in a match).

Sallymen · October 2

Okay I am lost. Why is everyone upset about t-bagging? I am genuinely confused why this is a big deal.

TheMajority · October 2

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't care if teabagging has been in other games, although I've never seen it, or represented on TV. That doesn't make it any less of a lewd gesture.

I find it immature and offensive and it is causing distress for many players. Players that continue to do this have no argument if they are banned for it.

No. That people aren't using it to be lewd is what makes not a lewd gesture. I mean, would you say a cocktail is lewd just because it's named after something lewd? Would you call flipping the bird lewd? People mostly just mean "LOL you lost" and this is the meaning that noted in the dictionary. The dictionary would obviously use the most prevalent one and it did not include anything lewd in that.

Most modern references don't even make note of that. They represent it with literal tea, which is a beverage with a lot of pop culture cache in general.

cocktail isn't named after anything lewd Coquetel was original name and named for a mixed drink in Bordeaux. Coquetier is French for an egg cup, the vessel in which Antoine-Amedée Peychaud made the mixes. American pronunciation caused it to become 'cocktail'.

not a great comparison.

spartaxoxo · October 2

TheMajority wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't care if teabagging has been in other games, although I've never seen it, or represented on TV. That doesn't make it any less of a lewd gesture.

I find it immature and offensive and it is causing distress for many players. Players that continue to do this have no argument if they are banned for it.

No. That people aren't using it to be lewd is what makes not a lewd gesture. I mean, would you say a cocktail is lewd just because it's named after something lewd? Would you call flipping the bird lewd? People mostly just mean "LOL you lost" and this is the meaning that noted in the dictionary. The dictionary would obviously use the most prevalent one and it did not include anything lewd in that.

Most modern references don't even make note of that. They represent it with literal tea, which is a beverage with a lot of pop culture cache in general.

cocktail isn't named after anything lewd Coquetel was original name and named for a mixed drink in Bordeaux. Coquetier is French for an egg cup, the vessel in which Antoine-Amedée Peychaud made the mixes. American pronunciation caused it to become 'cocktail'.

not a great comparison.

A cocktail, not the word cocktail. It's very common where I'm from for them to be given sexy names.

TheMajority · October 2

spartaxoxo wrote: »

TheMajority wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't care if teabagging has been in other games, although I've never seen it, or represented on TV. That doesn't make it any less of a lewd gesture.

I find it immature and offensive and it is causing distress for many players. Players that continue to do this have no argument if they are banned for it.

No. That people aren't using it to be lewd is what makes not a lewd gesture. I mean, would you say a cocktail is lewd just because it's named after something lewd? Would you call flipping the bird lewd? People mostly just mean "LOL you lost" and this is the meaning that noted in the dictionary. The dictionary would obviously use the most prevalent one and it did not include anything lewd in that.

Most modern references don't even make note of that. They represent it with literal tea, which is a beverage with a lot of pop culture cache in general.

cocktail isn't named after anything lewd Coquetel was original name and named for a mixed drink in Bordeaux. Coquetier is French for an egg cup, the vessel in which Antoine-Amedée Peychaud made the mixes. American pronunciation caused it to become 'cocktail'.

not a great comparison.

A cocktail, not the word cocktail. It's very common where I'm from for them to be given sexy names.

willingly walking into a establishment with drinks that have a sexy name is NOT the same as someone doing a lewd gesture to you without consent. no one is dumping sexy cocktails on someones head and humiliating them when they walk in a bar

SilverBride · October 2

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

You can say it in general chat if the person has their whispers turned off. You just tell them to stop and if they don't you can report them.

Does the player have to try to whisper them first? Because by the time they type the name in to try the player could be gone. Or maybe they can't even type the name to try a whisper first. So would just asking in general chat be acceptable if the player is no longer nearby?

And will this player then get a warning that another player reported them for this, so they can at least contemplate if it's worth it to them to keep doing it?

I'm not looking for bans to be handed out. I just want players not to have to keep being subjected to something they find lewd and offensive.

Yes. You can put it in general chat.

Yes, first offense is a warning afaik. But requires deliberately targeting someone. But I could be wrong about that. I have never been in-game suspended. If not it might be a short ban.

It would be very difficult to show a player deliberately targeting a specific body unless the player is very fast to hit print screen, and they would need to have nametags showing. And also would have to type "Don't teabag me." into chat and capture that in the ss, and then get a second ss of them doing it again anyway.

There has to be a better way.

LadyGP · October 2

TheMajority wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

TheMajority wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't care if teabagging has been in other games, although I've never seen it, or represented on TV. That doesn't make it any less of a lewd gesture.

I find it immature and offensive and it is causing distress for many players. Players that continue to do this have no argument if they are banned for it.

No. That people aren't using it to be lewd is what makes not a lewd gesture. I mean, would you say a cocktail is lewd just because it's named after something lewd? Would you call flipping the bird lewd? People mostly just mean "LOL you lost" and this is the meaning that noted in the dictionary. The dictionary would obviously use the most prevalent one and it did not include anything lewd in that.

Most modern references don't even make note of that. They represent it with literal tea, which is a beverage with a lot of pop culture cache in general.

cocktail isn't named after anything lewd Coquetel was original name and named for a mixed drink in Bordeaux. Coquetier is French for an egg cup, the vessel in which Antoine-Amedée Peychaud made the mixes. American pronunciation caused it to become 'cocktail'.

not a great comparison.

A cocktail, not the word cocktail. It's very common where I'm from for them to be given sexy names.

willingly walking into a establishment with drinks that have a sexy name is NOT the same as someone doing a lewd gesture to you without consent. no one is dumping sexy cocktails on someones head and humiliating them when they walk in a bar

You don't know what happens to me when I walk into a bar.

LalMirchi · October 2

Since it is hard to type messages and preferably screenshot the offensive behaviour perhaps a change of the rules to "opt-in" instead of "opt-out" could be a solution. Only players that mutually consent to tea-bagging would then be exempt from censure.

No idea how that would work but personally dislike that players humiliate non-consenting fellow players in this rather disgusting manner.

spartaxoxo · October 3

TheMajority wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

TheMajority wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't care if teabagging has been in other games, although I've never seen it, or represented on TV. That doesn't make it any less of a lewd gesture.

I find it immature and offensive and it is causing distress for many players. Players that continue to do this have no argument if they are banned for it.

No. That people aren't using it to be lewd is what makes not a lewd gesture. I mean, would you say a cocktail is lewd just because it's named after something lewd? Would you call flipping the bird lewd? People mostly just mean "LOL you lost" and this is the meaning that noted in the dictionary. The dictionary would obviously use the most prevalent one and it did not include anything lewd in that.

Most modern references don't even make note of that. They represent it with literal tea, which is a beverage with a lot of pop culture cache in general.

cocktail isn't named after anything lewd Coquetel was original name and named for a mixed drink in Bordeaux. Coquetier is French for an egg cup, the vessel in which Antoine-Amedée Peychaud made the mixes. American pronunciation caused it to become 'cocktail'.

not a great comparison.

A cocktail, not the word cocktail. It's very common where I'm from for them to be given sexy names.

willingly walking into a establishment with drinks that have a sexy name is NOT the same as someone doing a lewd gesture to you without consent. no one is dumping sexy cocktails on someones head and humiliating them when they walk in a bar

The cocktail isn't lewd because it has a lewd name. Teabagging isn't automatically lewd because it has a lewd name. Teabagging has been a normal part of PvP in video games for 20 years.

Edit

The problem with these comparisons is that it keeps being compared to gestures that aren't normal parts of the environment.

TheMajority · October 3

spartaxoxo wrote: »

TheMajority wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

TheMajority wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't care if teabagging has been in other games, although I've never seen it, or represented on TV. That doesn't make it any less of a lewd gesture.

I find it immature and offensive and it is causing distress for many players. Players that continue to do this have no argument if they are banned for it.

No. That people aren't using it to be lewd is what makes not a lewd gesture. I mean, would you say a cocktail is lewd just because it's named after something lewd? Would you call flipping the bird lewd? People mostly just mean "LOL you lost" and this is the meaning that noted in the dictionary. The dictionary would obviously use the most prevalent one and it did not include anything lewd in that.

Most modern references don't even make note of that. They represent it with literal tea, which is a beverage with a lot of pop culture cache in general.

cocktail isn't named after anything lewd Coquetel was original name and named for a mixed drink in Bordeaux. Coquetier is French for an egg cup, the vessel in which Antoine-Amedée Peychaud made the mixes. American pronunciation caused it to become 'cocktail'.

not a great comparison.

A cocktail, not the word cocktail. It's very common where I'm from for them to be given sexy names.

willingly walking into a establishment with drinks that have a sexy name is NOT the same as someone doing a lewd gesture to you without consent. no one is dumping sexy cocktails on someones head and humiliating them when they walk in a bar

The cocktail isn't lewd because it has a lewd name. Teabagging isn't automatically lewd because it has a lewd name. Teabagging has been a normal part of PvP in video games for 20 years.

Both the action, and the name, are lewd. Cocktails do not involve the active harassment and shaming of others.

People need to learn what consent and boundaries are.

Rohamad_Ali · October 3

Having no extreme opinion one way or the other on TB'ing in pvp, false retaliatory mass reporting concerns me. That is unfair. However If something is true, then the amount of reports is irrelevant.

Xandreia_ · October 3

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Having no extreme opinion one way or the other on TB'ing in pvp, false retaliatory mass reporting concerns me. That is unfair. However If something is true, then the amount of reports is irrelevant.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

spartaxoxo · October 3

TheMajority wrote: »

Both the action, and the name, are lewd. Cocktails do not involve the active harassment and shaming of others.

People need to learn what consent and boundaries are.

No. Just the name. I'm not going to rehash that discussion again. If I go to a water park, I don't demand that nobody splash. I might ask people nearby not to splash me, but I go in know that going to a water park is consenting to being splashed because that is part of the environment.

The argument that teabagging should be automatically be bannable ignores the history, culture, expected norms, the actual definition, the actual official stance of the company that runs the game, and the environment.

spartaxoxo · October 3

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Having no extreme opinion one way or the other on TB'ing in pvp, false retaliatory mass reporting concerns me. That is unfair. However If something is true, then the amount of reports is irrelevant.

Yeah. In this case the OP appears to be arguing that the report is true but that the people in question are being baited to act that way.

Rohamad_Ali · October 3

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Having no extreme opinion one way or the other on TB'ing in pvp, false retaliatory mass reporting concerns me. That is unfair. However If something is true, then the amount of reports is irrelevant.

Yeah. In this case the OP appears to be arguing that the report is true but that the people in question are being baited to act that way.

Thank you for clarifying.

BagOfBadgers · October 3

There's a lot of Helen Lovejoy's "What about the children" going on in this thread

.

I speak for me and me only. Some are speaking as if they are representing the voiceless masses and they really aren't.

Rohamad_Ali · October 3

BagOfBadgers wrote: »

There's a lot of Helen Lovejoy's "What about the children" going on in this thread .

I speak for me and me only. Some are speaking as if they are representing the voiceless masses and they really aren't.

Not everyone can be as forum brave as you my friend. A true maverick.

JemadarofCaerSalis · October 3

BagOfBadgers wrote: »

Question and opinions.

Is the Dark Brotherhood equivalent to actual murder and crimes (I know people that don't do any of it as it feels wrong. Their choice)?
The Thieves Guild equivalent to actual theft and crimes?
Overworld questing equivalent to genocide?
Is TB'ing equivalent to SA?

I would say no to all (as someone that is a survivor. I don't need people speaking on my behalf, thank you).

TB'ing, Tactical Squatting, Corpse Humping, Clam Slams, whatever else it's called is a thing. ZOS has ToS that define it and what to do about reporting it.

If someone does it to me in PvP, oh well. Should my Raid Leader die it's a thing we all do to them (not to pugs in group), we even run a addon that counts the most received and delivered. Do I do it in PvP, nah, others do and the run the risk of reports, simples.

There needs to be a better way of reporting unwanted actions/words and being online, not marked offline, etc,etc, should be the only way to whisper or kill another player. So you can only PvP when Online. Change it and get an insta kick.

Anyho off to play ESO.

The difference for those first three is that those are done both willingly by the person AND to an NPC that was coded and has no sentience/sapience to understand what is going on.

T-bagging, on the other hand, is typically done to another player character, which means there is a player behind that character.

Which, it is fine if you don't consider it SA. Just as you don't want others to speak on your behalf, you can't speak on other's behalf.

Also, for the 'well it has been part of PvP for X years', my only thoughts are that just because something has been done for a long time doesn't mean that it is okay or that it has to continue to be done.

SilverBride · October 3

spartaxoxo wrote: »

The cocktail isn't lewd because it has a lewd name. Teabagging isn't automatically lewd because it has a lewd name

It's lewd because it simulates a player crouching up and down on another player's face.

spartaxoxo · October 3

SilverBride wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

The cocktail isn't lewd because it has a lewd name. Teabagging isn't automatically lewd because it has a lewd name

It's lewd because it simulates a player crouching up and down on another player's face.

It is not done for lewd purposes or intent.

All participants are fully dressed.

No contact with exposure of any particular parts of the body. In fact, in most such games the player model doesn't even have those parts (because it's not real life).

And no, it is not always done on another's face. Often it isn't. A lot of times people will just crouch wherever they happened to be standing, even if they are far away. Or they'll be vaguely on top of the body. Sometimes it's the face, the stomach, whatever.

SilverBride · October 3

I don't care if they are dressed. No one has a right to simulate placing their crotch on another player. That is inapporpriate and it really should not be allowed.

spartaxoxo · October 3

https://youtube.com/shorts/4cURf5SwULA?si=2EcAZdhC_zM7OqmH

Here are snipers extremely far away from each doing it to taunt each other in good fun.

It does not require any contact with the other player at all. It's why the lewd namesake isn't in the dictionary definition of the term for online gaming.

SilverBride · October 3

I stand by my opinion.

spartaxoxo · October 3

And I stand by mine. If anything, looking at the huge amounts of examples that prove the contrary while discussing this has actually strengthened my opinion against viewing it that way.