Anti-Teabagging Policy now encouraging even worse toxic behavior

BXR_Lonestar

This is the law of unintended consequences, but since the implementation of the new Anti-Teabagging policy, there is now far worse toxic behavior in PVP going on that should either have Zos rethinking the Anti-Teabagging policy or building upon it to discourage the toxic behavior that has resulted from the policy itself. Since the policy has been implemented, it has been largely abused by people who are known teabaggers in an attempt to get other prominent players on the opposing side banned. Example: my guild master in my PVP guild was mass-reported for teabagging by someone - I won't name them, but for their protection, I'm going to call her "Karen" - who is widely known in the server as a teabagger. He was reported so many times that he was suspended pending investigation. Ultimately, the suspension was lifted when the allegations were unfounded, but he was taken out of commission for three days in a close PVP campaign that was winnable. Without him, the night crew struggled to hold ground or gain ground in the campaign, and the opposing team that Karen plays on was able to take a substantial lead.

So we can already see that this is how the PVP game is going to be played. Prominent players are going to be spam-reported and players are going to be temporarily banned/suspended - and THIS is going to be used as a primary tactic to try to gain an advantage in a PVP campaign. If not that, then people like this Karen are going to try to bait people into teabagging in order to get them banned.

And you can already see it when people like this Karen spam you with messages saying "don't teabag me please or I'll report you." Fair enough - they know the rules, but these are people who gleefully engaged in the behavior themselves well before the implementation of the rule. They know exactly what they are doing - weaponizing the rules in an attempt to remove prominent players in the campaign and gain an advantage.

So the anti-teabagging rules have become weaponized, IMO, largely because of [snip] enforcement of the policy. What I may suggest is this:

1. If you are going to have the policy, actually have a team that will independently investigate every incident before any bans occur, and force the reporter to show a time-stamped proof of request to stop teabagging, and then a time-stamped video of the behavior going on after the fact before any ban will be enacted; AND

2. Mass banning/suspensions for false reports and false report spamming to discourage the policy from being weaponized. Meaning that if a guild decides to target a specific player for mass reporting, those players can be banned/suspended for filing a false report.

It has to work this way or the policy is just going to be weaponized to create an even more toxic environment where instead of trying to win on the battlefield, players will try to target the opposition and bait them into a suspension or otherwise try to get them suspended.

[edited for bashing]

Aggrovious

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

This is the law of unintended consequences, but since the implementation of the new Anti-Teabagging policy, there is now far worse toxic behavior in PVP going on that should either have Zos rethinking the Anti-Teabagging policy or building upon it to discourage the toxic behavior that has resulted from the policy itself. Since the policy has been implemented, it has been largely abused by people who are known teabaggers in an attempt to get other prominent players on the opposing side banned. Example: my guild master in my PVP guild was mass-reported for teabagging by someone - I won't name them, but for their protection, I'm going to call her "Karen" - who is widely known in the server as a teabagger. He was reported so many times that he was suspended pending investigation. Ultimately, the suspension was lifted when the allegations were unfounded, but he was taken out of commission for three days in a close PVP campaign that was winnable. Without him, the night crew struggled to hold ground or gain ground in the campaign, and the opposing team that Karen plays on was able to take a substantial lead.

So we can already see that this is how the PVP game is going to be played. Prominent players are going to be spam-reported and players are going to be temporarily banned/suspended - and THIS is going to be used as a primary tactic to try to gain an advantage in a PVP campaign. If not that, then people like this Karen are going to try to bait people into teabagging in order to get them banned.

And you can already see it when people like this Karen spam you with messages saying "don't teabag me please or I'll report you." Fair enough - they know the rules, but these are people who gleefully engaged in the behavior themselves well before the implementation of the rule. They know exactly what they are doing - weaponizing the rules in an attempt to remove prominent players in the campaign and gain an advantage.

So the anti-teabagging rules have become weaponized, IMO, largely because of [snip] enforcement of the policy. What I may suggest is this:

1. If you are going to have the policy, actually have a team that will independently investigate every incident before any bans occur, and force the reporter to show a time-stamped proof of request to stop teabagging, and then a time-stamped video of the behavior going on after the fact before any ban will be enacted; AND

2. Mass banning/suspensions for false reports and false report spamming to discourage the policy from being weaponized. Meaning that if a guild decides to target a specific player for mass reporting, those players can be banned/suspended for filing a false report.

It has to work this way or the policy is just going to be weaponized to create an even more toxic environment where instead of trying to win on the battlefield, players will try to target the opposition and bait them into a suspension or otherwise try to get them suspended.

Baiting someone to teabag? lol!

The only issue is mass reporting someone falsely to get them a suspension or ban. This the only issue here. The teabagging shouldn't be a policy and players should just ignore the antagonizes. PVP whispers that contain toxic brain rot messages are very common. They will never end because its in almost every PVP game.

[edited to remove quote]

Xandreia_

The report system has to change imo, I've had 3 friends who got banned in pvp purely because they were mass reported for cheating when all they did was play the game. Solo/small scale players are always being mass reported for no reason other than groups being salty they died.

Elsonso

Wait, they updated the "teabagging rules" away from "no means no"?

robwolf666

Maybe people should start coffee grinding instead.

whitecrow

..."widely-known teabagger"???

RaikaNA

I was doing some push bagging on a dead craglorn NPC last night. Was I harassing the NPC? Am I at risk of getting banned? The NPC AI doesn't have the option to send me a whisper asking me to stop.

reazea

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

This is the law of unintended consequences, but since the implementation of the new Anti-Teabagging policy, there is now far worse toxic behavior in PVP going on that should either have Zos rethinking the Anti-Teabagging policy or building upon it to discourage the toxic behavior that has resulted from the policy itself. Since the policy has been implemented, it has been largely abused by people who are known teabaggers in an attempt to get other prominent players on the opposing side banned. Example: my guild master in my PVP guild was mass-reported for teabagging by someone - I won't name them, but for their protection, I'm going to call her "Karen" - who is widely known in the server as a teabagger. He was reported so many times that he was suspended pending investigation. Ultimately, the suspension was lifted when the allegations were unfounded, but he was taken out of commission for three days in a close PVP campaign that was winnable. Without him, the night crew struggled to hold ground or gain ground in the campaign, and the opposing team that Karen plays on was able to take a substantial lead.

So we can already see that this is how the PVP game is going to be played. Prominent players are going to be spam-reported and players are going to be temporarily banned/suspended - and THIS is going to be used as a primary tactic to try to gain an advantage in a PVP campaign. If not that, then people like this Karen are going to try to bait people into teabagging in order to get them banned.

And you can already see it when people like this Karen spam you with messages saying "don't teabag me please or I'll report you." Fair enough - they know the rules, but these are people who gleefully engaged in the behavior themselves well before the implementation of the rule. They know exactly what they are doing - weaponizing the rules in an attempt to remove prominent players in the campaign and gain an advantage.

So the anti-teabagging rules have become weaponized, IMO, largely because of [snip] enforcement of the policy. What I may suggest is this:

1. If you are going to have the policy, actually have a team that will independently investigate every incident before any bans occur, and force the reporter to show a time-stamped proof of request to stop teabagging, and then a time-stamped video of the behavior going on after the fact before any ban will be enacted; AND

2. Mass banning/suspensions for false reports and false report spamming to discourage the policy from being weaponized. Meaning that if a guild decides to target a specific player for mass reporting, those players can be banned/suspended for filing a false report.

It has to work this way or the policy is just going to be weaponized to create an even more toxic environment where instead of trying to win on the battlefield, players will try to target the opposition and bait them into a suspension or otherwise try to get them suspended.

There's an anti-bagging policy that's enforced? Sure couldn't tell as often as it happens to me. And it's usually the same handful of toxic players who do the bagging when they're lucky enough to zerg me down.

[edited to remove quote]

Elsonso

RaikaNA wrote: »

I was doing some push bagging on a dead craglorn NPC last night. Was I harassing the NPC? Am I at risk of getting banned? The NPC AI doesn't have the option to send me a whisper asking me to stop.

If your character is a Necromancer, I think you might be good.

I never saw where the rules for tea bagging changed, so as long as that NPC does not report you, and you were not witnessed by a player that took offense, I doubt it was noticed.

OtarTheMad

Well those players mass reporting better be careful too because that is also against TOS for basically wasting ZOS’ time.

Unless that was changed.

abkam

So, players can get banned for teabagging? Alright.
Players can also be banned for "harassment"? Got it.

But at least we still have this strategy in deadlands to farm infinite XP. This has been around for at least two years, and nothing's changed.

spartaxoxo

Elsonso wrote: »

Wait, they updated the "teabagging rules" away from "no means no"?

They didn't. But someone saw the rule being discussed and confirmed and decided to abuse it, I guess.

Northwold

I'm not following. What does this have to do with the teabagging that's any different from existing policies on abusive behaviour? If that player wants falsely to report abuse, they're going to do so regardless of the type of abuse reported.

LaintalAy

I went to a birthday in 1983 dressed as a teabag.
The only confusion there was if was classed as a 'jiggler' or a 'dangler'.

Over to you, Icy.

Shara_Wynn

I am personally tired of these attacks on all innocent Karens!

Please kindly desist from being namist!

Punches_Below_Belt

Anyone still teabagging after ten years, should be banned for being tiresome and unoriginal. In the words of Sheogorath, “BOR…ing!”

NordSwordnBoard

An anthropologist should study us and our savage behaviors. It may take a whole team of experts in the field.

gamma71

The people that get banned generally deserve it regardless because those type of toxic people are always saying or doing something anyways deserving of a ban. Call it karma

Rohamad_Ali

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

An anthropologist should study us and our savage behaviors. It may take a whole team of experts in the field.

Agreed. A full team.

Xandreia_

gamma71 wrote: »

The people that get banned generally deserve it regardless because those type of toxic people are always saying or doing something anyways deserving of a ban. Call it karma

not always true, sadly especially in pvp, whole factions will report 1 or 2 people because they killed a pug group. the report system is flawed

Ingel_Riday

Honestly, punishing teabagging seems incredibly misguided to me.

PVP in this game encourages tribalism and aggression. You're Aldmeri Dominion, and the blue and red players are your foes. Do not suffer them to live. Hate them. Take their land! Burn their keeps! Steal their scrolls! SLAUGHTER THEM! Humiliate them, over and over. Be hyper-compettive and hyper-violent. When you find one of them alone, kill him or her for Alliance Points and laugh as the individual is warped back to a keep 10 minutes away and has to run back to turn in a daily quest. Heck, wait for him to get back while you're at it... and then kill him again for good measure! HAHAHAHA!!! Do these things enough, and we'll reward you with mailed parcels of goodies and praise for honoring Ares. YAS!!!

But please... don't be mean. ;-) Don't be "toxic" in our toxic, highly competitive game mode that encourages ganking, murder, and theft. Slaughter and kill with courtesy and community values.

Just, ugh.

SilverBride

As a society we need to have a system that holds those that do not treat others with respect accountable for their actions rather than just letting them continue their toxic behaviors.

Ingel_Riday

SilverBride wrote: »

As a society we need to have a system that holds those that do not treat others with respect accountable for their actions rather than just letting them continue their toxic behaviors.

Who decides what's toxic?

Also, I don't go to comedy clubs where they make fun of the audience and get upset when I'm made fun of. Know the venue. Central Cyrodiil is a warzone in this game. It's a three-faction slaughter festival designed to encourage people to show each other no mercy. Expecting etiquette and courtesy there is... I don't get it. Same with the Imperial City. That zone is purposefully built to encourage people to torment each other and rob each other blind. To look for individuals going it alone and gang up on them, stabbing them to death before stealing half their Tel Var Stones. The zone chat even helps you brag by broadcasting who you just murdered for everyone to see.

That's what PVP is. Trying to wrap it in bubble wrap so that no one has their feelings hurt is contrary to the very spirit of the thing. "Haha, trying to farm stones for that Red Rook motif? TOUGH LUCK. Your money is mine and you're dead again, newb... but don't worry, I won't crouch over your body three times because your feelings are important to me."

Eh, I guess it doesn't matter for me. I never teabag. I do /jig on fallen corpses when the opportunity arises, especially if my nightblade gets the jump on her foes and they never even have a chance to defend themselves. I'm assuming dancing isn't against the rules... right? "No no no, Ingel! Sneaking up behind someone and murdering him before looting his corpse of half its valuables is all well and good, but a jaunty jig on his corpse!? How do you think that makes him feel?!?!"

Well, I hope it makes him feel bad enough to equip inner light or flare. Should have known I was lurkin' and waitin' for ya.

SilverBride

Ingel_Riday wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

As a society we need to have a system that holds those that do not treat others with respect accountable for their actions rather than just letting them continue their toxic behaviors.

Who decides what's toxic?

In this situation ZoS does.

zaria

Xandreia_ wrote: »

The report system has to change imo, I've had 3 friends who got banned in pvp purely because they were mass reported for cheating when all they did was play the game. Solo/small scale players are always being mass reported for no reason other than groups being salty they died.

Sounds a lot like the New World PvP issue. The most effective PvP strategy was discord groups to mass report enemy leadership just before the fight.
Games not to copy: New World

Mathius_Mordred

How about if I kill someone as a werewolf and then eat them, will that get me banned next?

thorwyn

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

How about if I kill someone as a werewolf and then eat them, will that get me banned next?

Yep.
Clearly offensive and non consensual.

Katzenzunge

Not trying to start something, but how can this be?

So many posts and stories of people reporting toxic players, cheaters, botters, and seeing those same accounts again an again, as if reporting didn't do anything, but at the same time people will be banned based off "trust me bro"?

I thought to report someone you had to have videos, screenshots etc to actually prove their behaviour is bad/toxic and so on?

What are those wrongly reporting people do differently?

Is it just the amount of reports? Or is there more to it?

BXR_Lonestar

Aggrovious wrote: »

them suspended.

Baiting someone to teabag? lol!

[/quote]

Yes. I don't know what else you would call it when these are gamers who teabagged you before (sometimes heavily) prior to the rule change, have bagged people AFTER the rule change, and then the moment you do it back to them, they look to hide behind the new rule. Its pretty much to the point where if you get a whisper/message from someone about teabagging, your best option is to say "Fair enough, you bag me and I'll report you."

This is so middle-school nonsense and it is making the game MORE toxic, not less.

BXR_Lonestar

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Well those players mass reporting better be careful too because that is also against TOS for basically wasting ZOS’ time.

Unless that was changed.

Haven't seen any evidence that THAT particular rule is being enforced.

BXR_Lonestar

Katzenzunge wrote: »

Not trying to start something, but how can this be?

So many posts and stories of people reporting toxic players, cheaters, botters, and seeing those same accounts again an again, as if reporting didn't do anything, but at the same time people will be banned based off "trust me bro"?

I thought to report someone you had to have videos, screenshots etc to actually prove their behaviour is bad/toxic and so on?

What are those wrongly reporting people do differently?

Is it just the amount of reports? Or is there more to it?

When there is a massive/overwhelming number of reports, apparently the protocol is to suspend the account pending investigation. Even if the allegations are ultimately unfounded, nothing happens to the people who filed a false report.