Anti-Teabagging Policy now encouraging even worse toxic behavior

LadyGP

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't know when the focus went from stopping bad behaviors to telling people to just accept and deal with them, but this doesn't bode well for society.

This is a video game - not society. You keep telling people that they should just not do it but are getting upset that people are telling you to just accept it (or report it).

I'm failing to see the purpose of this thread anymore if I'm being fully honest.

SilverBride

Aggrovious wrote: »

Yes, there is sexual suggest in this, but also a rated M game.

Performing a sexually suggestive action on another player without their consent is not acceptable no matter what the rating of the game is.

Aggrovious

SilverBride wrote: »

Aggrovious wrote: »

Yes, there is sexual suggest in this, but also a rated M game.

Performing a sexually suggestive action on another player without their consent is not acceptable no matter what the rating of the game is.

No one cares when its PVP we are talking about.

spartaxoxo

Aggrovious wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Aggrovious wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Aggrovious wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't know when the focus went from stopping bad behaviors to telling people to just accept and deal with them, but this doesn't bode well for society.

Teabagging is just crouching up and down. If you get offended by that, don't play multiplayer games with PVP.

The issue is toxic whispers and mass reporting. Lets get that straight.

I mean, with the OP, they don't need to teabag someone who doesn't want them to. Whoever they are discussing is obviously a known quantity. So, just don't teabag them. If they teabag you after being asked to stop, report them

That is the thing. It was dumb the day they activated this policy and its still dumb now. You don't ask someone to stop teabagging you, you just ignore it all together. You are begging to be made fun of by doing this.

Its like if you are in a room with a bunch of vets and then you giggle and say oh sorry I am ticklish. You just asked for a death wish even though you don't wish it.

Nah. It takes two to play. Respect that someone has declined and leave them alone.

Nah, you got to read what I said here:

Its like if you are in a room with a bunch of vets and then you giggle and say oh sorry I am ticklish. You just asked for a death wish even though you don't wish it.

I did. I stand by what said. If someone asks you to leave them alone, do so.

SilverBride

spartaxoxo wrote: »

2.c. transitive. In online gaming: to make one's character squat down repeatedly on the head of (an opponent's defeated character) to celebrate the victory and humiliate one's opponent.

Look up the original definition of teabagging. It is sexually explicit as everyone here well knows.

But the definition that you posted also states that it is done to humiliate one's opponent. That alone is unacceptable.

spartaxoxo

SilverBride wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

2.c. transitive. In online gaming: to make one's character squat down repeatedly on the head of (an opponent's defeated character) to celebrate the victory and humiliate one's opponent.

Look up the original definition of teabagging. It is sexually explicit as everyone here well knows.

But the definition that you posted also states that it is done to humiliate one's opponent. That alone is unacceptable.

Just because two things share the same name, it doesn't mean they are the same thing. The namesake is explicit, the online gesture usually isn't. That's why it has a separate definition in the dictionary.

It also says it's just done to celebrate victory, and other sites show a greater variety of uses such as tactics or fun. Depends on the context which is meant.

Ingel_Riday

SilverBride wrote: »

Performing a sexually suggestive action on another player without their consent is not acceptable no matter what the rating of the game is.

I mean... I don't know, it feels like there's some kind of odd logical flaw here. You aren't upset that players are murdering each other, or literally eating each other's corpses, or stealing from each other... all without consent. You're presumably fine with all of that, but don't you dare repeatedly crouch over my corpse! That has sexual implications and therefore upsets me.

I'm a Yankee and I'm not unfamiliar with the whole "violence = okay, sex = BAD" thing in our culture... but rarely do I ever see it so explicitly stated.

Reminds me of all the slaughter and doom present in Blackwood, which was apparently fine, but Gideon's famous Temple of Dibella is empty of any debauchery or lewdness whatsoever... because lewd bad.

I respect your opinion SilverBride, but I feel like your priorities are way off here. You're okay with me viciously stabbing someone to death, robbing them, dancing on their corpse, and even vomiting on them... but I better not get frisky with a few crouches. *shrug*

Aggrovious

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Aggrovious wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Aggrovious wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Aggrovious wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't know when the focus went from stopping bad behaviors to telling people to just accept and deal with them, but this doesn't bode well for society.

Teabagging is just crouching up and down. If you get offended by that, don't play multiplayer games with PVP.

The issue is toxic whispers and mass reporting. Lets get that straight.

I mean, with the OP, they don't need to teabag someone who doesn't want them to. Whoever they are discussing is obviously a known quantity. So, just don't teabag them. If they teabag you after being asked to stop, report them

That is the thing. It was dumb the day they activated this policy and its still dumb now. You don't ask someone to stop teabagging you, you just ignore it all together. You are begging to be made fun of by doing this.

Its like if you are in a room with a bunch of vets and then you giggle and say oh sorry I am ticklish. You just asked for a death wish even though you don't wish it.

Nah. It takes two to play. Respect that someone has declined and leave them alone.

Nah, you got to read what I said here:

Its like if you are in a room with a bunch of vets and then you giggle and say oh sorry I am ticklish. You just asked for a death wish even though you don't wish it.

I did. I stand by what said. If someone asks you to leave them alone, do so.

You are missing the point entirely. Crouching up and down on a foe they have crushed will never stop. If you ask them to stop, they will do it more.

spartaxoxo

Aggrovious wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Aggrovious wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Aggrovious wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Aggrovious wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't know when the focus went from stopping bad behaviors to telling people to just accept and deal with them, but this doesn't bode well for society.

Teabagging is just crouching up and down. If you get offended by that, don't play multiplayer games with PVP.

The issue is toxic whispers and mass reporting. Lets get that straight.

I mean, with the OP, they don't need to teabag someone who doesn't want them to. Whoever they are discussing is obviously a known quantity. So, just don't teabag them. If they teabag you after being asked to stop, report them

That is the thing. It was dumb the day they activated this policy and its still dumb now. You don't ask someone to stop teabagging you, you just ignore it all together. You are begging to be made fun of by doing this.

Its like if you are in a room with a bunch of vets and then you giggle and say oh sorry I am ticklish. You just asked for a death wish even though you don't wish it.

Nah. It takes two to play. Respect that someone has declined and leave them alone.

Nah, you got to read what I said here:

Its like if you are in a room with a bunch of vets and then you giggle and say oh sorry I am ticklish. You just asked for a death wish even though you don't wish it.

I did. I stand by what said. If someone asks you to leave them alone, do so.

You are missing the point entirely. Crouching up and down on a foe they have crushed will never stop. If you ask them to stop, they will do it more.

And if they keep doing it, they'll end up banned. And that will be their own fault because they chose to harass someone rather than keep it in good fun.

Good fun requires both people to be having fun. If only one person is having fun, that's not banter. It is mockery and harassment. And harassment, justifiably, is against the TOS.

Aggrovious

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Aggrovious wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Aggrovious wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Aggrovious wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Aggrovious wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't know when the focus went from stopping bad behaviors to telling people to just accept and deal with them, but this doesn't bode well for society.

Teabagging is just crouching up and down. If you get offended by that, don't play multiplayer games with PVP.

The issue is toxic whispers and mass reporting. Lets get that straight.

I mean, with the OP, they don't need to teabag someone who doesn't want them to. Whoever they are discussing is obviously a known quantity. So, just don't teabag them. If they teabag you after being asked to stop, report them

That is the thing. It was dumb the day they activated this policy and its still dumb now. You don't ask someone to stop teabagging you, you just ignore it all together. You are begging to be made fun of by doing this.

Its like if you are in a room with a bunch of vets and then you giggle and say oh sorry I am ticklish. You just asked for a death wish even though you don't wish it.

Nah. It takes two to play. Respect that someone has declined and leave them alone.

Nah, you got to read what I said here:

Its like if you are in a room with a bunch of vets and then you giggle and say oh sorry I am ticklish. You just asked for a death wish even though you don't wish it.

I did. I stand by what said. If someone asks you to leave them alone, do so.

You are missing the point entirely. Crouching up and down on a foe they have crushed will never stop. If you ask them to stop, they will do it more.

And if they keep doing it, they'll end up banned. And that will be their own fault because they chose to harass someone rather than keep it in good fun.

Good fun requires both people to be having fun. If only one person is having fun, that's not banter. It is mockery and harassment. And harassment, justifiably, is against the TOS.

All over teabagging and not toxic whispers. Mind blowing.

I don't care if its against TOS, ZOS is wrong. They should never have pandered to cry babies.

I don't care if a player doesn't like teabagging in a PVP game, they're wrong. They should never touch a PVP game because they will get teabagged and the report will do nothing.

SilverBride

Ingel_Riday wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Performing a sexually suggestive action on another player without their consent is not acceptable no matter what the rating of the game is.

I mean... I don't know, it feels like there's some kind of odd logical flaw here. You aren't upset that players are murdering each other, or literally eating each other's corpses, or stealing from each other... all without consent.

It is done with consent. When we participate in PvP we are doing so willingly and with the expectation that we will kill and/or be killed by other players.

Ingel_Riday wrote: »

...don't you dare repeatedly crouch over my corpse! That has sexual implications and therefore upsets me.

PvPing does not include an expectation of having a sexually suggestive gesture performed over a player's body.

Ingel_Riday

SilverBride wrote: »

It is done with consent. When we participate in PvP we are doing so willingly and with the expectation that we will kill and/or be killed by other players.
...
PvPing does not include an expectation of having a sexually suggestive gesture performed over a player's body.

You know, not to sound flippant... maybe the real solution here is a separate Cyrodiil shard.

When I go into PVP, I'm consenting to ALL of what PVP is. The taunting, the pranking, the stabbing, the chaos, the thieving, and the madness. It's a hyper-competitive, tribal bloodbath and I expect no quarter. If I get tea-bagged, I glare and plot revenge. "Oh, you'll get yours... all of you Aldmeri will get yours." That's actually part of the fun.

It sounds like you want the stabbing and the chaos, but not the pranking or the taunting. You want a PVP safe-space. "GG. You got me." *state-sanctioned taunt over body* "Tyfg."

I'd be fine with ZOS making a safe-space PVP shard for each mode, with strict rules on what you can say and do at all times... but trying to do that to the main shards is just a recipe for even lower engagement. I genuinely don't believe the average player wants that at all. It removes a core facet of competitiveness from the experience, replacing it with nothing.

Edit addition: all this talk makes me sad and more appreciative of pvp modes in games like Space Marines 2... where you aren't expecting to melta-gun people with courtesy. What an odd era.

spartaxoxo

SilverBride wrote: »

Ingel_Riday wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Performing a sexually suggestive action on another player without their consent is not acceptable no matter what the rating of the game is.

I mean... I don't know, it feels like there's some kind of odd logical flaw here. You aren't upset that players are murdering each other, or literally eating each other's corpses, or stealing from each other... all without consent.

It is done with consent. When we participate in PvP we are doing so willingly and with the expectation that we will kill and/or be killed by other players.

Ingel_Riday wrote: »

...don't you dare repeatedly crouch over my corpse! That has sexual implications and therefore upsets me.

PvPing does not include an expectation of having a sexually suggestive gesture performed over a player's body.

PvPing does include the expectation there will be teabagging. Teabagging has been part of video game victory celebrations for 20 years. This is akin to saying people agreed to playing football but not touch down dances. Touch down dances aren't in the official rules, but they are a well-known and understood part of football for decades. The same is true of PvP and teabagging. I can't recall a single game that automatically bans it. And I know of multiple games that not only allow it but promote it through the use of emotes, sprays, advertising, etc.

spartaxoxo

Aggrovious wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Aggrovious wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Aggrovious wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Aggrovious wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Aggrovious wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't know when the focus went from stopping bad behaviors to telling people to just accept and deal with them, but this doesn't bode well for society.

Teabagging is just crouching up and down. If you get offended by that, don't play multiplayer games with PVP.

The issue is toxic whispers and mass reporting. Lets get that straight.

I mean, with the OP, they don't need to teabag someone who doesn't want them to. Whoever they are discussing is obviously a known quantity. So, just don't teabag them. If they teabag you after being asked to stop, report them

That is the thing. It was dumb the day they activated this policy and its still dumb now. You don't ask someone to stop teabagging you, you just ignore it all together. You are begging to be made fun of by doing this.

Its like if you are in a room with a bunch of vets and then you giggle and say oh sorry I am ticklish. You just asked for a death wish even though you don't wish it.

Nah. It takes two to play. Respect that someone has declined and leave them alone.

Nah, you got to read what I said here:

Its like if you are in a room with a bunch of vets and then you giggle and say oh sorry I am ticklish. You just asked for a death wish even though you don't wish it.

I did. I stand by what said. If someone asks you to leave them alone, do so.

You are missing the point entirely. Crouching up and down on a foe they have crushed will never stop. If you ask them to stop, they will do it more.

And if they keep doing it, they'll end up banned. And that will be their own fault because they chose to harass someone rather than keep it in good fun.

Good fun requires both people to be having fun. If only one person is having fun, that's not banter. It is mockery and harassment. And harassment, justifiably, is against the TOS.

All over teabagging and not toxic whispers. Mind blowing.

I don't care if its against TOS, ZOS is wrong. They should never have pandered to cry babies.

I don't care if a player doesn't like teabagging in a PVP game, they're wrong. They should never touch a PVP game because they will get teabagged and the report will do nothing.

No. They aren't wrong. Everyone is entitled to their own likes and dislikes. The report clearly is doing something or there would be no complaints about bans over it.

At the end of the day we all agreed to the TOS.

And the official position is that it's not automatically against the TOS. However, if someone asks you to stop, you stop. That is a reasonable compromise so that both sides can enjoy the game the way they want to play.

SilverBride

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

PvPing does not include an expectation of having a sexually suggestive gesture performed over a player's body.

PvPing does include the expectation there will be teabagging.

No it doesn't. I've played several MMOs and I PvP'd in all of them (not as much in ESO though because I don't enjoy Cyrodiil) and I never heard of this practice until I came here.

Some players may expect it and think it's just a part of PvPing, but there are many that find it offensive. That is why there have been so many discussions on the subject.

I'm honestly disturbed that this is being allowed at all because of it's implications.

spartaxoxo

SilverBride wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

PvPing does not include an expectation of having a sexually suggestive gesture performed over a player's body.

PvPing does include the expectation there will be teabagging.

No it doesn't. I've played several MMOs and I PvP'd in all of them (not as much in ESO though because I don't enjoy Cyrodiil) and I never heard of this practice until I came here.

Some players may expect it and think it's just a part of PvPing, but there are many that find it offensive. That is why there have been so many discussions on the subject.

I'm honestly disturbed that this is being allowed at all because of it's implications.

Yeah, it does. I don't know which MMO you've played but all of the ones I played had it. Its been parodied in The Simpsons. Had tons of think pieces. It's included in video game advertising.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TO_GJpj6MY

There is achievements for it in some games




THIS game has an emote that references it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LRHSDkRtXw


Some games have sprays for it



Honestly, that some players managed to play PvP games and never see it or hear about it is pretty shocking for me. It's been something that I have seen very frequently in every PvP game I have played for like 20 years. I'm not kidding when I say I see it as ubiquitous as a touch down dance. It is very, very common in my experience.

SilverBride

I don't care if teabagging has been in other games, although I've never seen it, or represented on TV. That doesn't make it any less of a lewd gesture.

I find it immature and offensive and it is causing distress for many players. Players that continue to do this have no argument if they are banned for it.

spartaxoxo

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't care if teabagging has been in other games, although I've never seen it, or represented on TV. That doesn't make it any less of a lewd gesture.

I find it immature and offensive and it is causing distress for many players. Players that continue to do this have no argument if they are banned for it.

No. That people aren't using it to be lewd is what makes not a lewd gesture. I mean, would you say a cocktail is lewd just because it's named after something lewd? Would you call flipping the bird lewd? People mostly just mean "LOL you lost" and this is the meaning that noted in the dictionary. The dictionary would obviously use the most prevalent one and it did not include anything lewd in that.

Most modern references don't even make note of that. They represent it with literal tea, which is a beverage with a lot of pop culture cache in general.

SilverBride

spartaxoxo wrote: »

That people aren't using it to be lewd is what makes not a lewd gesture.

The gesture itself does represent a lewd act regardless of what the player is using it for... which, by the way, is to humiliate and taunt the fallen player.

If someone was to expose themself on the street to another person they would be arrested. Claiming that they didn't mean for it to be seen as lewd won't keep them out of jail because regardless of intent the act was lewd.

As another poster suggested they could make a no crouch zone around dead bodies. Problem solved.

spartaxoxo

SilverBride wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

That people aren't using it to be lewd is what makes not a lewd gesture.

The gesture itself does represent a lewd act regardless of what the player is using it for... which, by the way, is to humiliate and taunt the fallen player.

If someone was to expose themself on the street to another person they would be arrested. Claiming that they didn't mean for it to be seen as lewd won't keep them out of jail because regardless of intent the act was lewd.

As another poster suggested they could make a no crouch zone around dead bodies. Problem solved.

Everyone is fully clothed while teabagging. They are just doing crouching. It's not even always done on the other person. Plenty of people just do it in place.

It is named after a lewd act because the up and down motion resembles it. But, absolutely nothing else about it aligns with that. Not the intent. Not the established meaning. Not the physical touch. Fully clothed. etc.

You wouldn't get arrested for flipping the bird to an opponent after beating them in a board game IRL. And that's also got a similar origin story.

edit: Any way, at this point we're moving back in circles, so I'll just agree to disagree from here.

Lixiviant

So you got teabagged by a 12 yo and are upset. This is a game; not real life. And, you are in PVP, for god's sake.

Do I think it is right? Hell, no, but you are dealing with real immature players, not NPCs (just wanted to remind you about this).

If think the real travesty is the banning of players that haven't done anything wrong but get reported by the Karens of the world.

LadyGP

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't care if teabagging has been in other games, although I've never seen it, or represented on TV. That doesn't make it any less of a lewd gesture.

I find it immature and offensive and it is causing distress for many players. Players that continue to do this have no argument if they are banned for it.

Again. No one is on here complaining about being banned from doing it (and if they come here and complain I would say... did someone ask you to stop and you kept doing it.. if so... you deserve it).

The only person here complaining and trying to force something about this is you.

Franchise408

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't know when the focus went from stopping bad behaviors to telling people to just accept and deal with them, but this doesn't bode well for society.

Some things you literally have to learn to deal with if you expect to function in society.

SilverBride

Franchise408 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't know when the focus went from stopping bad behaviors to telling people to just accept and deal with them, but this doesn't bode well for society.

Some things you literally have to learn to deal with if you expect to function in society.

I do deal with them. Turning our backs on an issue is not dealing with it. I believe solutions to prevent bad behaviors should be sought out. And I function quite fine in society.

Franchise408

SilverBride wrote: »

Franchise408 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't know when the focus went from stopping bad behaviors to telling people to just accept and deal with them, but this doesn't bode well for society.

Some things you literally have to learn to deal with if you expect to function in society.

I do deal with them. Turning our backs on an issue is not dealing with it. I believe solutions to prevent bad behaviors should be sought out. And I function quite fine in society.

Edited after I replied. n/m

SilverBride

LadyGP wrote: »

The only person here complaining and trying to force something about this is you.

As I asked for clarification on earlier, it is often difficult for a player to request that another player not teabag them because of them being in a different alliance, or being in offline status, or even having a very difficult name to spell with characters the player may not have on their keyboard. So what is a player supposed to do then?

Agree or not, some players do find this offensive and it needs to be easier for them to protect themselves from this gesture rather than requirements that may be impossible to meet. So something needs to change.

o_Primate_o

Heren wrote: »

o_Primate_o wrote: »

All ZOS has to do is code a crouch cool down.

Wrong, and repeating endlessly this 'idea' won't make it a good one.

Well I for one would find teabagging someone less enjoyable if I had to wait, say two seconds or so, between crouches.

spartaxoxo

SilverBride wrote: »

LadyGP wrote: »

The only person here complaining and trying to force something about this is you.

As I asked for clarification on earlier, it is often difficult for a player to request that another player not teabag them because of them being in a different alliance, or being in offline status, or even having a very difficult name to spell with characters the player may not have on their keyboard. So what is a player supposed to do then?

ZOS does explain that in the quote I linked earlier.

You can say it in general chat if the person has their whispers turned off. You just tell them to stop and if they don't you can report them.

MidniteOwl1913

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

2.c. transitive. In online gaming: to make one's character squat down repeatedly on the head of (an opponent's defeated character) to celebrate the victory and humiliate one's opponent.

Look up the original definition of teabagging. It is sexually explicit as everyone here well knows.

But the definition that you posted also states that it is done to humiliate one's opponent. That alone is unacceptable.

Just because two things share the same name, it doesn't mean they are the same thing. The namesake is explicit, the online gesture usually isn't. That's why it has a separate definition in the dictionary.

It also says it's just done to celebrate victory, and other sites show a greater variety of uses such as tactics or fun. Depends on the context which is meant.

Ok, but here's the thing you don't know and I don't know what's in the mind of the player shoving their virtual private parts into my face. What I do know is how that makes me feel.

Humilated is one word for it. It's not done simply to celebrate, it's done to humiliate. That's in the definition you posted. I don't think doing something that will make someone else feel that way is a good thing.

o_Primate_o

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

LadyGP wrote: »

The only person here complaining and trying to force something about this is you.

As I asked for clarification on earlier, it is often difficult for a player to request that another player not teabag them because of them being in a different alliance, or being in offline status, or even having a very difficult name to spell with characters the player may not have on their keyboard. So what is a player supposed to do then?

ZOS does explain that in the quote I linked earlier.

You can say it in general chat if the person has their whispers turned off. You just tell them to stop and if they don't you can report them.

By the time you type the message the other player is gone.